Topic: Greatswords are Empires best infantry in 8th...

[thorpyUK]

Ok let me zip my flame suit up & explain...
First off, yes, they are, like most empire choices, over-costed, by at least 1pt / man. So what do they bring to the party? They're WS4- nothing special when compared to other elite army lists, but does help them a pinch offensively & defensively. They come with full plate armour giving them a creditable 4+ save, and also LD8 Stubborn, meaning they can operate independently of your main force.
Finally, they come with great-weapons giving them a good punch back if they get the chance. As a regimental unit they may take detachments.

I've been doing some mathhammer & matching them up with some tough units. Let's see how a horde of them matches up to a horde of Chaos Warriors with Great Weapons. (Assumes both units have a champ)
First off they both strike at the same time.
The WoC get a total of 41 attacks, hitting 27.33 times, wounding 22.78 times and chopping through full plate armour like tin foil due to their S6 attacks.
The Greatswords get 31 attacks back, hitting with 15.5 of them, wounding with 10.33 and losing 1.72 to the chaos armour save, leaving them with 8.61 kills.
This translates to 9 kills for the GS and 23 kills for the CW.
The way I calculate the 'worth' of a unit is by translating those figures into 'points killed vs points lost', which gives me a negative differential of -114.8

Now let's compare naked Halberdiers (assumes a unit big enough to maximise horde attacks back).
The CW kill the same number, the halberdiers kill 5.17 CW back, a points differential of -62. So halberdiers are superior point-for-point when naked.
The magic happens when both units are buffed with a warrior priest & both prayers (situational I know but bear with me).
The GS now lose 15.19 wounds due to their ward save, and strike back:
31 attacks hitting 23.25 times with hatred, wounding 20.67 times and losing 3.44 to AS means 17 wounds on the CW & they even win the combat! Imagine the look on your WoC opponents face as your empire infantry send him packing 

Thoughts & criticism welcome haha
Differential is now +127 vs +103 to max-buffed halberdiers!
In other words, in the fully-buffed state, GS can be even stronger than elite infantry & win combat.

I know they're not core, but they're the best we have & their AS also gives them the best chance of getting into combat unscathed!

[Dazgrim]

Don't the WoC strike first because their initiative is higher?

[thorpyUK]

Normally yes, but in my example I've given them great weapons, so they strike at the same time

[commandant]

I wrote a long piece in defense of greatswords perviously. I'll try and find it. Stubborn detachments are also great fun.

[Dazgrim]

Even with great weapons, if both sides have them then the side with the higher initiative goes first

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Incorrect.

BRB p. 65 (Always Strikes Last): "A model with this special rule (or who is attacking with a weapon that grants this special rule) always strikes last in close combat, regardless of Initiative.  If the model with this rule is fighting an enemy with the same ability, the Attacks are made simultaneously."

[commandant]

Unless they are high elves I believe

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

That is because most HE have the Always Strikes First special rule. If a HE has an ASL weapon, the two special rules will  "cancel out and neither applies; so use the model's Initiative" (BRB p.65).

[commandant]

I can't say I was fond of that rule to be honest but yes. I always liked the idea of professional army and greatswords are a big part of that.