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Author Topic: Steam Tank  (Read 26633 times)

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2009, 07:36:29 AM »
I have the perfect answer to the problem.   Just get rid of it and then there is no problem.   It is a stupid iddea anyway, quite like the mec horse in that way.   Give the rate that steam trains exploded, stopped working or just broke down in the early days I think that maybe the steam tank should have to take some kind of test to see if it blows up after every wound or something.
A steam tank would be impossibly complex to run so the very fact that there is one fits it in with the rest of the warhammer rule structure.

Hurrah!

Its not just me that thinks this :D

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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2009, 10:43:22 AM »
I often forget we have a Steam Tank.  I went into a GW store for the first time yesterday and an employee asked if I played, and told him yes, I play Empire.  He responded by saying, 'you know they're coming out with a plastic Steam Tank this summer.'  I paused for a moment and probably had a confused look on my face, as I don't use them and would probably never do so, I don't even associate it with the Empire truthfully.

Personally, I wouldn't mind getting rid of it.  But that is highly unlikely as they just put out a plastic kit, and I'm sure it's a big seller for them.  Plus, there are a lot of people that like the option.
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Offline commandant

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2009, 01:14:39 PM »
I can remember an employee asking me if I wanted to look at the new plastic steam tank.   I told him I was trying to avoid cheese but that GW were making it very hard.   The look on the guys face was to die for as he stammered something along the lines of how could I consider a steam tank cheese.

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2009, 02:51:43 PM »
I don't think one, by itself, without the war altar is cheese.  Nothing wrong with having a single heavy hitter, and every army has monster-slayers that can pose a real threat to a stank.  It's balanced when you consider how pretty much every army (with few exceptions) can bring at least one large, ugly target to bear.  Many can bring two or more, easily; even O&G can bring a Wyvern and Giant and split your heavy hitting cannons.

One stank AND a war altar, now you're approaching cheesy.  The war altar is a steal points-wise, and a tank forces people to split their attention, but that's the way it is sometimes.  When you bring two stanks AND the altar, you're really pushing the cheese envelope.

Personally, I think it's tough for us to have a cheesy army at all (we're awfully balanced and have a lack of uber-killy units), but the two stank and altar combo is about as close to it as we get.  That, or (arguably) a gun line.

One stank alone is, to me, no more cheesy than any heavy hitter on its own, and has its vulnerabilities.  Should we get rid of it?  Well, I'm not a huge fan of it, and ordinarily never take it, but I think if we dropped it we should get something heavy to replace it, for the sake of balance.  Love the stank or hate it, it serves a purpose in tourney lists and competitive play.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2009, 03:35:50 PM »
Remove the tank? If anything, we need more of them! The Empire should be churning them out by now.
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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2009, 03:41:38 PM »
Burn the tanks, burn all like.. eight of them.

Its amazing how many armies get to use the very few steam tanks. I mean, don't the engineers get a holiday?
I for one welcome our new flying cat overlords.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2009, 03:45:16 PM »
So you won't like the new Empire: armored companies list coming up in white dwarf then?
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Offline Finlay

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2009, 04:08:50 PM »
I love it when people say "the steam tank would be impossibly complex to run"
yet they are fine with giant demons spewing fire up your arse.
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2009, 04:11:08 PM »
yet they are fine with giant demons spewing fire up your arse.

I'm definitely not fine with that.
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2009, 02:18:28 AM »
I love it when people say "the steam tank would be impossibly complex to run"
yet they are fine with giant demons spewing fire up your arse.



Remove the tank? If anything, we need more of them! The Empire should be churning them out by now.


These two quotes sum up the arguements for the steam tank. Frankly 1 and even 2 can be taken out with little or no effort- want cheesy? Cheesy is able to have 4 bolt throwers for only 2 slots that....*bloody elves*.


Steam tanks are not immune I've been playing with them long enough to have seen the times they do amazing and the times they don't. I'm not saying their underpowered but they're not nearly as overpowered as people think- it's all about the MIND GAMES *points finger at head and opens eyes wide*
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Offline kermitthefrog3

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2009, 11:59:57 AM »
I cant belive how some people are still moaning about the Stank

Its annoying how it cant Pick banners up! Its one of the best bloody things in the game! stop moaning about how you cant get a constant stream of massacres in tourneys.

In 6th Edition Empire, before they ruined the book, we didnt have Stanks, or the Stupid War Altar. Most people who play empire now dont have the brains to play anything else, and never take anything but 2 Stanks a War Altar and a few knights to bulk out core.

Face it, Steam tanks are ridiculous, they go against the lore, are overpowered, underpointed, and you can take 2 in a 2000 list.
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Offline Union General

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2009, 04:03:46 PM »
Not as bad as lists that can take blocks of T4 guys with Great Weapons, Killing Blow that can be resurrected. Oh, and did I also mention a chariot that is able to become ethereal, fly, have hatred, AND Killing Blow?!?!?
Face it, Empire is underpowered as is and we NEED something over-the-top to counter those other things that are incredibly over-the-top!  :dry:
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Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2009, 04:37:22 PM »
Not as bad as lists that can take blocks of T4 guys with Great Weapons, Killing Blow that can be resurrected. Oh, and did I also mention a chariot that is able to become ethereal, fly, have hatred, AND Killing Blow?!?!?
Face it, Empire is underpowered as is and we NEED something over-the-top to counter those other things that are incredibly over-the-top!  :dry:
-The General

I can agree we are underpowered, but to me the answer is not to give us more ridiculous things to balance it, but to bring the opposition into line.  I don't mind the steam tank that much, honestly (though I do think taking two is a bit of a stretch fluff wise for the average army).  However, the answer to putting the enemy on steroids is not to start slipping them to empire troops, but rather to make the enemy go clean.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Union General

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2009, 04:53:55 PM »
Fair enough, but I think that the Steam Tank should stay as it is. Rare choices are called "Rare choices" for a reason...
Besides, since when did anyone actually follow the fluff that there are only 8 steam tanks left in existence? :engel:
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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 12:48:46 PM »
Well, actually I think there are 8, but only a couple are actually working?

I know there is one at Helmgart on the Bretonnian border (Waste opf money that gigantic fortress is with the hundreds of cannons. I don't think Bretonnia has ever attacked it).

And one was at wolfenburg? The rest have been described as being in museums or in disrepair.
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Offline Brionne

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 01:40:19 PM »
So you won't like the new Empire: armored companies list coming up in white dwarf then?

Will that be before or after the new Panzer Korps update?
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Offline Inarticulate

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2009, 07:39:25 PM »
So you won't like the new Empire: armored companies list coming up in white dwarf then?

Will that be before or after the new Panzer Korps update?

Silly, thats in Imperial Armour 36
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Offline Obi

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2009, 09:57:56 AM »
So you won't like the new Empire: armored companies list coming up in white dwarf then?

Will that be before or after the new Panzer Korps update?

Silly, thats in Imperial Armour 36
Really? I thought it was in the Engineer's guide to Steamtanks.
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Offline Ganymede

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2009, 10:30:26 PM »
Well, actually I think there are 8

There used to be eight, but currently there are only six steam tanks left. One of the eight sunk into a bog and was captured by the skaven. Another was destroyed at the defense of Middenheim during the Storm of Chaos.

Offline Obi

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2009, 12:27:31 PM »
Well, actually I think there are 8

There used to be eight, but currently there are only six steam tanks left. One of the eight sunk into a bog and was captured by the skaven. Another was destroyed at the defense of Middenheim during the Storm of Chaos.
1) SoC never happened, after all Middenheim is still around...
2) There still are 8, according to the new heraldry book.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2009, 03:50:39 PM »
There are 8. The whole 'skaven stole one' story was only in WD, and is not credible. Plus, like Obi said, SoC never happened - just ask the Warriors of Chaos Book.
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Offline Ganymede

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2009, 05:30:50 PM »
There can be eight steam tanks if you want.

Hell, if you plug your ears and shout loud enough, there can even be a million. Give it a shot.

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2009, 07:37:34 PM »
Technically, there are only 8 "originals" left.  That is, only 8 built by the engineer who created the first batch.

There could be knock-offs, reproductions, and the like...any number of them.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Obi

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2009, 05:09:20 AM »
And IMO there will be- the engineers are capable of altering all the tanks to become 'conquerer class' so they've reproduce the turrets already...
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Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Steam Tank
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2009, 05:19:40 AM »
And IMO there will be- the engineers are capable of altering all the tanks to become 'conquerer class' so they've reproduce the turrets already...

Considering how sophisticated the robo-horse would have to be to be combat effective (in the real world we've JUST reached that level with Big Dog, and it doesn't snort fire), it's easy to imagine that engineers in the Empire could build their own without even needing to dismantle one of the old ones to learn how.  Sure, they'd differ in some fundamental ways that would distinguish them from authentic originals, but it's doubtful anyone would care.

It's like Greek Fire: we still don't know how they made it, but Napalm does the job so well that it's only an academic point.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree