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Author Topic: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!  (Read 13742 times)

Offline WallyTWest

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Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« on: May 20, 2009, 01:54:18 AM »
Yea... every edition they have nerfed this wonderful gun and cornerstone of the empire army. I want it back to the original set of 4th edition rules at 150pts a gun! (Keep it simple stupid.)

Since when was the organ gun better?
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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 06:03:38 AM »
I'd just be happy with a return to the sixth ed misfire chart, 36 inch range, the ability to attach an engineer character for ballistic skill all for 125 points. (2000 ad edition cost)  the 1996 cost of a volley gun was 100 points with only the misfire table changed.   
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline commandant

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 02:45:57 PM »
I don't really see whats wrong with this one.   The problem with the organ gun is a problem with the organ gun not the helblaster.   Anyway dwarfs are meant to be just better at shooting things.   So the organ gun dose 1 AD and we do 3.   SO they get auto hit, which is ok because they are better though a little stupid if you are in trees or something and we need to roll to hit.   On average we are rolling 3 times as many hits as they are so its ok

Offline WallyTWest

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 02:04:53 AM »
Im sorry, but watching my oponent advance skeletons into a hellblaster range last week was devistating to my morale.

"Meh, they can take it. Hellblasters are hardly what they used to be."

Hearing those words incited rage and had me rembering when it was a fearsome war engine. Now it has been ignored for weeks and its utility diminished over the last two editions. Hardly the short ranged unit killer of the old days.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 04:29:07 AM »
In 6th is was rightly feared. I almost always took one. Now - never.
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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 05:28:19 AM »
yup adjust the rules back to 6th ed lethality with a 36 inch range, seriously, is this thing a cannon or a collection of muskets.  Hell ratling guns scare me more, and jezzail units.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 07:40:13 AM »
yup adjust the rules back to 6th ed lethality with a 36 inch range, seriously, is this thing a cannon or a collection of muskets.  Hell ratling guns scare me more, and jezzail units.

Couldnt agree more, ratling guns are the best mass slaughter weapon in WFB, the sooner their new rulebook comes out that neuters them the better.

Them and Jezzails can shatter an army.
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Offline Warlord

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Re:
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 08:21:38 AM »
Agreed. Though I think that primarily stems from the strength level (and in the case of Jezzails, the extra AP) of the shots
Quote from: Gneisenau
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Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 09:05:12 AM »
There is that, but its the not rolling to hit, thats the major thing that nerfed the HBV in my opinion
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 10:44:53 AM »
There is that, but its the not rolling to hit, thats the major thing that nerfed the HBV in my opinion

True. Essentially the Helblaster is double the points of a Ratling, moves less than half speed, a Rare choice, and hits less.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 04:46:31 PM »
yeah even single model vs single model this is true, when you compare the usual army config this is even more pronounced.

Hey... how come WE don't have portable gatling gun detachments?!?!?!?
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 10:46:49 PM »
In 6th is was rightly feared. I almost always took one. Now - never.

Exactly. The 6th edition rules were perfect - it was totally unreliable, but had enough potential to make it a serious threat. The new version is just a waste of a rare choice.
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Offline redflag

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2009, 12:48:15 PM »
I like the hellblaster as it is now.  A Engineer maning a hellblaster makes hits on a 4+ on long range and 3+ on short range.  That makes a big difference.

Offline Union General

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2009, 12:55:15 PM »
I like the hellblaster as it is now.  A Engineer maning a hellblaster makes hits on a 4+ on long range and 3+ on short range.  That makes a big difference.
Firing squad. Now.  ::heretic::

Yes, but does anyone actually take an engineer? THOSE are COMPLETELY USELESS (except in lists played just for fun, and even then, maybe not). I'm not paying 100 points for a guy who will simply increase the machine's Ballistic Skill by 1 with a chance of blowing himself up with no further value. Personally, though I started in the current edition, I would prefer the Helblaster to go back to the old rules and actually be a threat. OK, I admit that I have one in nearly EVERY list I've written up, but that's only to get off as many shots as possible and take down potential Large Target nasties. *sigh*
So much for entire units capable of being shredded in a single volley...
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Offline Zalminen

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2009, 01:44:39 PM »
I don't really think autohit is the way to go but  helblaster could probably use some improvements...

How about allowing an engineer upgrade (giving improved BS and possibly better range) ?

Offline redflag

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2009, 03:10:47 PM »
Yes I play an Engineer mounted on a barded warhorse equiped with a pigeon bomb.  On deployment I have my Engineer with the hellblaster so as to maximize the long range potential of the hellblaster.  What you seem to be forgetting is that large targets are hit on a 3+ at long range with an Engineer.  Dragons, Hydras, Giants, etc. 
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 03:13:10 PM by redflag »

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2009, 11:19:57 PM »
excellent, so during the first turn when your opponent parks his HE dragon mage broadside to your helblaster you get one shot at 3+ before he turns and eats you. 

I still say increase the range to 36 have a journeyman engineer upgrade like I described in Eng 8.0 as an option and otherwise go back to 6th ed firing process
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2009, 11:14:45 PM »
Definately needs a range increase
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2009, 07:37:01 AM »
Well I ignored it once while playing against another empire army and it wiped out my IC Knights with one volley....I shouldn´t have said..."Well the Hellblaster is a piece of crap nowadays so I will never take it this edition°!" BAM

Well and guess what in the upcomping tournament in Karlsruhe I will field it, because I can´t field a steam tank and I am using already two units of Flagellants and as the days of mass infantry armies are counted (mostly) I take the Hellblaster over the Rocket launcher.

Offline mwalsh867

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2009, 02:17:27 AM »
Been playing with helblasters this way for awhile now:

Remove the last paragraph from the current (7th edition) entry for the helblaster.  The helblaster costs 175 points.

Easy!

-Matt

Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2009, 04:37:50 PM »
i dont see what all the complaining is about... on average i score about 8 hits per turn, a S5 and -3 AS im pretty happy... esp for the points cost... i actually try not to take them as i still think they're kinda cheesy (though not as bad as 5th ed when it actually shot  like 5 cannonballs and could literaly wipe out a unit in 1 puff of smoke)
Well if the empire is gonna get all those upgrades you want, then my gobbos want S4, T4, and A2... that would be as balanced as your new halberds and other rules...

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Offline Thrawn

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 07:46:19 PM »
The Hellblaster was very good in the 6th ed and the rules were clear and they followed 'the blackpowder weapons historical usage'. I mean, when you fire such devise you don't have to have a high BS or have keen eyes. Hellblaster fires a combination of canister shot, shrapnel and grapeshot. The usage of such weapons can be seen in movies like Colonel Wolodyjowski, Gettysburg and The Charge of the Light Brigade - every time it is used it's hell for the ones being shot at. The only thing I would change is the point cost and increase it to 150pts. That way most of the people should be happy - Empire players for having the good old and 'reliable' Hellblaster and other players wouldn't have the possibility to say that it is to cheap.
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Offline Death

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2009, 08:26:49 PM »
yup adjust the rules back to 6th ed lethality with a 36 inch range, seriously, is this thing a cannon or a collection of muskets.  Hell ratling guns scare me more, and jezzail units.

Couldnt agree more, ratling guns are the best mass slaughter weapon in WFB, the sooner their new rulebook comes out that neuters them the better.

Them and Jezzails can shatter an army.

they wont nueter skaven. skaven are the master race. give in to your inner evil rat thing like i have.
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Offline Phelix

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2009, 04:26:09 AM »
Hmmmm a lot of you claim its useless now, and want it too go back too being a unit killer, but wouldnt that make it a little overpowered? I mean I rarely ever faced or used one (I know no empire players, its why I decided too start one) but any ranged thing being able too wipe out a unit in one volley seems a little overpowered.... as for dwarves, I always thought it was stupid that the empire seemed too have better technology.... when dwarves were the ones who taught it too you.
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Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2009, 03:11:55 PM »
Dwarves are slow to change to new tech thats why they dont use it...

I think on balance, increase the range to 36" and give it an engineer upgrade would be fine

Still rolling to hit, but with more chance, and longer range means it isnt killed by xbows or even handguns but it retains its unreliability
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg