Topic: Chumley Warner's Empire. 3D printing

[Uryens de Crux]

They were however expanding and buying up rival companies

The major difference is they didnt have shareholders then...massive difference in how companies behave

[GamesPoet]

I'm amazed at how many figures Citadel was making in those days.

They didn't have a couple hundred stores to support back then. All their profits could go into having new miniatures sculpted and cast. Now it's a totally different environment.

I'm game for a few less GW stores and a few more miniatures.  Although, at least with the plastic, they can be seemingly converted more easily.  Pluses and minuses, like anything else, I suppose.

[phillyt]

They also didn't have the same requirements of quality.  Most of their old models were so bad they barely warrant a look.  You could knock out models in large numbers where you are accepting almost anything.

[orcyboy]

They also didn't have the same requirements of quality.  Most of their old models were so bad they barely warrant a look.  You could knock out models in large numbers where you are accepting almost anything.

Uhh..  flipping through a 147 pages of a thread displaying the most awesome miniatures GW ever made, your statement falls flat.

[Blue in vt]

They also didn't have the same requirements of quality.  Most of their old models were so bad they barely warrant a look.  You could knock out models in large numbers where you are accepting almost anything.

Uhh..  flipping through a 147 pages of a thread displaying the most awesome miniatures GW ever made, your statement falls flat.

haha...well said orcboy...the character and charm of these old figures makes the plastic crap they produce these days seem laughable.

Blue

[Darknight]

"Character and charm" is one thing, but the lack of technical skill is another. Many of these models are nice because they are unusual or characterful, but they are not as well-designed in certain ways as more modern figures.

Now, if one wants something which is kinda zanny etc. that is great, but many of these old figures ONLY have that going for them.

[Delthos]

Uhh..  flipping through a 147 pages of a thread displaying the most awesome miniatures GW ever made, your statement falls flat.

It depends on what you consider awesome. Do I like a lot of these old figures? Yes I do. Would I ever field any of them in a army these days? No, and not because of the fact that they expensive and hard to get. Sure they are fun figures, but the proportions are terrible and just not up to today's standards. Sure modern figs have lost the individual character these old figs had, but I think modern figs are sculpted much better. I much prefer modern figs for my armies. Now where I would like these old figs is using them in games like Talisman or even as RPG characters. In that regards I think they work most excellently.

Also a good paint job does wonders in making a bad figure look better as well, as evidenced here by Mr Chumley Warner. I've seen plenty of these old figs painted horribly and I guarantee you wouldn't think the figs are so good had you seen those bad paint jobs.

[Maza]

From what Cumley is showing, I'd say that the variation in quality was much wider in the 80's. Some models are just plain crappy, but others really seem to be works of true inspiration.

[Grazhnakk]

I'm amazed at how many figures Citadel was making in those days.

They didn't have a couple hundred stores to support back then. All their profits could go into having new miniatures sculpted and cast. Now it's a totally different environment.

The production mechanism is totally different now. They've oriented towards producing massive amounts of a small set of models. This requires a lot more up-front design for their injection molding system, as opposed to a lot of easily cast rubber molds for metal models. Tooling's remarkably easy for the metal figures, but now that the costs of the metal are high, and the market (and thus demand) are much bigger, they're going the route that makes more business sense.

Shame for the hobbyists, but now we've got a LOT of small designers making FANTASTIC stuff, like our very own White Knight's models.

[phillyt]

Exactly, they could pretty much dump figures out there.  There wasn't as much of a need for quality control since they were producing massive batches of smaller sets.

Also,while much of what has been presented here is very cool, even within the models Chumley is painting there are total garbage sculpts that a great paint job doesn't really help with.  Those lords of battle, most of the chaos lines, old elf models, most orcs, all of those lines were utter garbage.  The old models had character in places, but the quality was inconsistant.  Just as new doesn't mean best, old doesn't automatically make a model characterful.

[jimbeanie]

Awesome stuff Chumley! I had this model for years so it is great for me to final see some paint on it.

[Armholeeio]

Love that model, very much a English civil war feel to him he would not look out of place in a royalist army

[Battlekruse]

Awesome stuff Chumley! I had this model for years so it is great for me to final see some paint on it.

Damn, Oh man this is nice work Chumley. He could be used a nice Witchhunter.

Btw - Is it a cat or rat there is on his shoulder?

[Uryens de Crux]

It's a winged cat

Seriously people read some Michael Moorcock. If you have any books by Black Library throw them out and read some Moorcock instead


As for old school quality, yeah there was a variance but some of the figures made now by GW are terrible too, just look at the latest monkey faced state troops...and the new ones lack the character of these older ones.

[harv]

Some of the newer miniatures look great but there is a definite shift in style to something akin to the art direction found in World of Warcraft/Diablo3. This is particularly evident in the Ogres and Orcs/Goblins which are just terrible in comparison to the older ranges.

In the perfect world GW would bring back the proper mail order that has everything they have ever done on order. That way we can pick and choose between the best of the new and the best of the old. 

[phillyt]

The old orc line was such a terrible joke that it was an utter embarrassment.  The goblins were bad too.  Of all of the armies, Chaos and O&G have had the most improvement. 

[orcyboy]

Some of the newer miniatures look great but there is a definite shift in style to something akin to the art direction found in World of Warcraft/Diablo3. This is particularly evident in the Ogres and Orcs/Goblins which are just terrible in comparison to the older ranges.

In the perfect world GW would bring back the proper mail order that has everything they have ever done on order. That way we can pick and choose between the best of the new and the best of the old. 

I agree 110%.

[Delthos]

In the perfect world GW would bring back the proper mail order that has everything they have ever done on order. That way we can pick and choose between the best of the new and the best of the old. 

If that were a profitable way of selling miniatures you can be guaranteed they'd still be doing it. As it were it was only catering to us old fans and not the current new players. The selling of old miniatures like that is a thing of the past and you will never see it again from GW.

[Kirgan]

I have Urish mini somewhere 

[Blue in vt]

The old orc line was such a terrible joke that it was an utter embarrassment.  The goblins were bad too.  Of all of the armies, Chaos and O&G have had the most improvement.

And the same could be said for the currentand recent  dwarf linse...just atrocious...they just make me cringe to look at...and I'm a dwarf fan...they were my first army and are by far my largest army.  I'm not saying that all old models are great...I'm saying they had character...something that mass produces multipart plastics will never have...unless they are skillfully converted.  Which is something I have no interest in doing.  Old metal beats modern plastic 90% of the time IMO...YMMV.

Cheers,

Blue

[mbh]

"Character and charm" is one thing, but the lack of technical skill is another. Many of these models are nice because they are unusual or characterful, but they are not as well-designed in certain ways as more modern figures.

Now, if one wants something which is kinda zanny etc. that is great, but many of these old figures ONLY have that going for them.

This is pretty much true.  A lot of the older figures are just beastly to paint compared to the new plastics.  I have an all metal skaven army and some of those sculpts can give you fits to paint up nice.

But just look at the old jes Goodwin wood elves.  That range is better than every other gw wood elf release in the last 20 years.  Same goes for the Orc and goblins.

For me the bottom line is that I would rather paint the new plastic, but I would much rather look at the old metal models.  They are so much cooler.



EDIT

I forgot to mention that the GW is only recently creating models that surpass the old stuff.  Think about the skaven models from 6th edition or some of the previous warriors of chaos stuff, it is pure garbage. 

[mbh]

The old orc line was such a terrible joke that it was an utter embarrassment.  The goblins were bad too.  Of all of the armies, Chaos and O&G have had the most improvement.

what do we mean by the old Orc line?  Because the stuff from the late 80s has still not been surpassed by current gw Orc and goblins.  The current range is really lacking in my opinion.

I feel like you may be talking about the Orc and goblin stuff from the 90s, which I would agree was rough.  A lot of the stuff from the "red period" was way too static and lacked the charm of the really old line. 

Same with chaos.  The realm of chaos stuff is classic compared to the 90s models or even today's.  Just think of how poor the plastic marauders look.  I'm even bored to death of the plastic warriors. 

[Maza]

I forgot to mention that the GW is only recently creating models that surpass the old stuff.  Think about the skaven models from 6th edition or some of the previous warriors of chaos stuff, it is pure garbage.

But when it comes to the Empire (at least), I think they made some really great stuff for Mordheim. Witchhunters, freelance knight etc. That was around 2000 (?). I can't wait to see Chumley getting there!

[mbh]

hit and miss IMO


some of it is fantastic and some looks like test sculpts

[phillyt]

The red weapon period was so atrocious.  The only armies that really have comparably decent models from that period and today would be dwarves and empire and maybe Brettonia.  And in those cases, I think it is a case of the interesting and characterful appearance.  You can get away with poor quality if you have a model that kind of tells a story purely in appearance.

I actually prefer the previous editions demons to the current line.  The axe wielding Blood Letters and the Juan Diaz Daemonettes are worlds better than the current line.