Topic: ST any good??

[Combat311]

250pts. is alot for one thing.



P.S

If you do play with the ST, how did it do??

[Vincent of Vega]

In the 30+ games I've played in the last year I've only used my Steam Tank once on the basis that all of us here in our 'gaming group' are still learning and in my opinion I don't think it's fair to use it at the moment.
Unlike my teenage son who plays Chaos and would use his Bloodthirster in every game if I'd let him

In the one game I did use it I'd say it did pretty well, blasted and squished a few things but also kept a unit of Black Knights tied up for the entire battle. In the end it did blow up after taking hits throughout the battle.

I fully intend to use it in more in the future. There are a number on this forum who hate the Steam Tank with a passion and they are entitled to think what they like. All I will say is that if you like the model, I think it's fantastic if poorly moulded,  then feel free to use it, but I don't think you should base your army around it.

Cheers
Alex

[rufus sparkfire]

The steam tank is easily the most controversial unit in the Empire army, to the point where some people despise it and won't play you if you use one.

This is rather an extreme reaction. As you say, the tank is expensive, costing anywhere between 200 and 420 points. This is an awful lot to invest in one model in a 2000 point game when you consider what else you could buy for the same cost.

So is it worth taking? It depends...some armies (such as elves) find the tank very hard to deal with, whereas any army that can muster a lot of high strength hits (such as Empire, Dwarves or Chaos) will take it apart with little trouble.

Looking at the various armament options, I like the basic conquerer version (main gun and steam gun) at 300 or steam gun only for 275. After the initial charge, the tank is pretty bad in combat so being able to hose down enemy units with steam is nice. There is always the volley gun of course, but the high chance of misfiring (and seriously damaging the tank) is a significant risk.

Everyone hate the mortar version, and with good reason since it only has 19 hull points. The fighting platform is nasty, since it gives the tank some attacks on the opponent's  turn, but is too expensive for a 2000 point game.

If you use one, try to keep it away from anything that can do it much damage and  race around squishing troops or tying up important units. Remember though (from the point of view of the background) that the tank is not a disposable unit (as, for instance free company or flegellants are), but is a rare and valuable machine whose loss would be a great blow to the Empire.

[Atchman]

I think of the Stank as the great equalizer.  If you are playing against very hard armies, it can at least balance the scales.  

The "Old Reliable" Hellblaster version is the best.  Why?  If you are down to low SP, you can more than likely generate the 2 sp to fire it.  In this case perhaps you are about to lose the Stank. Why not go out with a bang?  An average of 15 ST 4 AP

I also highly favor the ram version with steamgun.  A great spoiler machine and deadly with so many hull points.

In my opinion, I won't use it for games with my friends.  There are times I have but I tell them I'm going to so that they can prepare a counter.  The same thing applies to heroes on a dragon, or other nasty combinations that I want to try out.  

At a tournament where anything goes, I don't hesitate to take it.  Go over to the WPS board and look at some of the lists that are showing up at GT events.  At RTs I would just about guarantee that you will lose points for taking it, as the other player can rate your army.  

The fact is it is a legitimate choice for the Empire army.  It is a powerful choice as well.  In combination with knights and a griffon or pegaus rider it is almost unstoppable.  Mine however, gets killed every game because I don't use it enough to be effective with it.

[IH8Skaven]

I am in the minority as to the fact that I do indeed own a ST, but hardly (5 out of approx. 90-100 games) use it.  I play against mostly armies that have a very good answer for it, and it's only justified it's existence one I felt.  I do; however, justify the one cannon and block of flagellents that I can bring instead of the tank, just about every game.

[Boris Todbringer]

I also have a steam tank, but don't have the annual. After several games where my friends demolished it every game, I took half an hour and looked up its rules. After thrashing them a couple games in a row with it, they whined and complained about how it wasn't fair   . So for now, I'm trying to make a more comp friendly army, but I think its time to let the tank roll over a couple more units.

The Stank is really a block of cheese, but when you look at the armies that play greater demons and 500+ point characters to win the battle, it doesn't seem to be that bad. If I'm feeling in a bad mood or just want to annoy my opponent, I'll play it, but really winning just because of it is stooping to the level of those players, and there is hardly any strategy involved in fielding a Stank. It really isn't rewarding winning a battle just because your tank did all the work.

[intrepidjohnny]

Steam Tank is very good for tournaments as your opponent rarely is ready to face a ST, but if the guy with who you willl be playing nows that you will field a ST the situation is a bit worse, but still it is worth paying those 275 (I usually buy only a steam gun)- seeing 12 swordmasters being torn apart in only one charge is something beautiful

[theharangue]

As many people have pointed out the Steam Tank is a lightning rod for controversy.

When I first got back into the game for 6th edition, I immeadiately got into a campaign with some vastly more experienced players.

I used the Steam Tank and two units of 8 HC.  They told me up front that this would be considered very poor form in any other environment.  However, we were playing a very strict comp version of the territorries campaign and I was able to fit it in my list.  As we were unable to alter our list it stuck and people just didn't say anything.

I ended up winning every game I played.  I became very good at using the ST.  I would deploy it center and then do a double envelopment with the knights.  It was basically unstoppable against these very comp heavy armies.

I have stopped playing with it, because A) I am much more experienced and don't want people blaming my win on one model, B) people that don't know you will HATE the model, and C) gamers that don't play against it will not believe how it breaks nearly every rule in the game and will be additionally pissed off by it.  Which will also entail you digging out the 2002 annual and letting them read the whole article, and you might as well let them read the errata as well.  

While it does see a lot of play at comp less tournaments it is almost universally despised by everyone that doesn't use it, and using it at an RTT almost gaurantees you won't win any awards as your sportsmanship scores will, most likely, get trashed by anyone you beat.

Like many hard models skill is a huge variable.  In the hands of a novice it is a pain in the neck but not insurmountable, but in the hands of an experienced player it does give off the odor of cheese.

It is hard to know what is right when selecting a model like the ST.  Many may make the argument that the empire needs a leg up with all the monsters, chariots and rock hard lists out there.  Others will say that the model doesn't belong in the game at all, from both a fluff and game mechanics perspective.

However, it can be hellishly effective, if you learn how to use it.  You can change someones entire deployment with it.  It may be 300+/- points but it will hold and often roll a flank all by itself, and in my "Damn the Torpedoes, Full steam ahead" method it will disrupt an entire battle line.

Don't forget to pop the engineer up and take his free shots.  You would be surprised at how effective he is with a repeater pistol.  
And stay away from dryads, they can tear the ST apart.  Trust me, I know.

-Joseph

[inspectormidget]

the st is reasonable but there is more than 1 st ??

[patsy02]

yes it is the von zeppel(the one with a little house thing on the top) the inplacable(the mortar one) the old reliable(the helblaster i think) and the most famous and most used, the conqueror. oh and i have tried it and it is true indeed, i wasted 40 elves in a battle because of this baby, i pummeled 3 crox in two turns(not the same battle) and mauled and boiled 20 saurus, and it hasent been killed once!  

[theharangue]

According to the fluff, the mad engineer that invented them made eight and then died...vanished..whatever.

7 still are in the Empires hands and one was lost in a bog somewhere.    Over the years the 7 tanks have been repaired and altered so they are all unigue, (boy that conqueror gets around).  The lost one was recovered by the Skaven and retrofitted with a Warpstone power system.

Yes, as if the Skaven don't have enough going for them they have a steam tank as well.  I believe these rules were published in one of the journals and, as such, are not official for gaiming, but it is in fluff terms.

And no, I won't get anyone the article as I too hate skaven, and they certainly don't need an ST.

-Joseph

[rufus sparkfire]

Actually, I believe there were twelve tanks originally, created by Leonardo de Miragliano (hmmm, which historical figure could he possibly be ).

Eight tanks are still functioning (the old army list let you take 0-8 ) and in the possession of the Empire, the other four were lost somehow. The conqueror variant is the most common.

As for the 'Skaven tank', that was just some nonsense invented by someone who likes the rats far too much. I don't see any reason to consider it 'officially' part of the background.

You can see the names of all twelve tanks on the GW site:

http://www.games-workshop.com/warhammerworld/warhammer/empire/steamtank_map.htm