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Author Topic: Army Book: Greatswords  (Read 11813 times)

Offline Rodman49

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2010, 05:47:26 PM »
Greatwords
Quote
9 points per model
Greatsword ..........M4 WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8
Count's Champion M4 WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8
Unit size: 10+
Equipment: Two-handed sword (great weapon), hand weapon, Full Plate.
Special Rules: Stubborn, State Troops
Upgrade one Greatsword to a musician for 6 points.
Upgrade one Greatsword to a standard bearer for 12 points
Upgrade one Greatsword to a Count's Chmapion for 12 points
The standard bearer can carry a magic standard costing up to 50 points.
For every General of the Empire in the army, one unit of Greatswords becomes Core

I would change the last line to "If the army includes one or more Generals of the Empire, you may include (one and only one) Greatswords as Core Units rather than Special Choices."  I'm not sure about the points drop either but everything else looks ok.  Remember Greatswords could be decent if the rumors of "Front two ranks of infantry always fight" are true.  I don't think they need Immune to Panic or Fear as that is what banners are for.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2010, 06:20:44 PM »
what about 8000 point games? only one unit of core great swords in that size of battle?

Leave it alone it's fine It can't really be exploited anyways.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2010, 07:05:27 PM »
I don't think they need Immune to Panic or Fear as that is what banners are for.

As pointed out, immune to Panic (at the least) would make fluff-sense. We do not (currently) have any banners making a unit immune to fear. And in general our banners are crap (or too expensive).
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Offline Dezzo

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2010, 11:50:41 PM »
the 0-1 concept is a very old mechanic.

all the new books do not have them and i'm quite sure the developers do not wish to reintroduce it to the game.

Offline Rodman49

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2010, 11:42:48 AM »
Games above 3k points should be using multiple army formations anyway.  I was just making it the exact same as the Warrior Priest's take Flagellants rule.  I don't think the way to fix Warhammer is to make Stubborn and Unbreakable troops more and more prevalent.  It is not a 0-1 rule, it is simply giving Generals a similar benefit to that of Warrior Priests.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2010, 12:14:32 PM »
But the warrior priest rule was being removed for Arch lector only, and 1 unit per arch lector.
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I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Johedl

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2010, 07:50:40 AM »
I think Immune to panic is abit over the top. If the general flees the greatswords might pull out as well. How about changing their state troop rule to: Elite State Troops, They can be the parent unit or an independent unit but not a detachment, they dont have to take panic test due to militia.
I also think they should have I4 like swordsmen.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2010, 11:54:11 PM »
What about a game mechanic that is used in warhammer historical.  Leave the great swords with stubborn and while a GotE is in the unit immune to panic, however If unattached to the General or the general flees they lose this ability and take panic tests as normal.  Also If the general is slain the unit of greatswords gain hatred renewed in the first round of every new combat for the remainder of the game.  Other units of course would panic as usual.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2010, 01:37:56 AM »
Putting the general in the unit to make them immune to panic is a nice little benefit.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2010, 04:27:46 AM »
The hatred rule I think is very fluffy for the personal body guard of the GotE, it also gives incentive to an empire player to risk his fairly soft lord in some tight combats in order to gain the hatred rule.

mind you, you are still down a general to do this.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Jamesy52

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2010, 02:21:21 PM »
This has been a very interesting topic. I personally think they are fine the way they are, however, in my opinion two changes should be made.
First of all I think they should have an extra attack. These guys are veterens and men who have "...accomplised incredible feats of arms before their commanding officers". Let's face it, these guys are the best of the best. If you read Grimblades, even sergeants have great respect for them. If a sergeant gets an extra attack then these guys should too.

Secondly I agree with a lot of people; they should have a banner worth up to 50 points.

Other than this I believe everything else is perfect. The points cost should stay the same if these ammendments are made, otherwise it should go down.

Now that fear isn't as potent they stand a better chance of facing whatever the enemy can throw at them.
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Offline Omalley69

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2010, 10:48:59 AM »
I think the 8.ed GreatswordŽer whould have to been improoved quite abit compared to the chaos marauder with mark of khorne and great weapon at 5.3 point (depending on unit size (the mark)).

That guy is ws 4, s3/5 and frenzy and CORE.

We pay 10 for 1 less attack (which is huge!) and a 4+ save. Which i dont find at all fair.


Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2010, 03:39:35 AM »
absolutely either marks of chaos need to be fixed (unlikely GW Luuurves chaos) or the GS's need to be fixed (also unlikely Chaos needs soft opponents so they look even tougher) I'll probably end up playing warhammer historical and late 15th century Holy Roman Empire instead.  That system has no internal ego regarding certain species.
 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2010, 09:26:12 AM »
Greatswords also get stubborn.

Marauders die faster to any shooting, and will die more to enemies without GW's, and don't have stubborn to stay in place.
Frenzy only applies to the first rank, and they can loose it once they loose combat (which the likely will fighting against anything remotely killy.

You are better off comparing them to our Halberdiers.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Johedl

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2010, 10:36:13 AM »
Greatswords are also mounted on 20mm bases and Marauders on 25mm bases. Larger bases is not all that good to have in close combat and during deployment.

Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2011, 11:42:46 PM »
Greatswords are GOLD!!! Their stubborn rule, combined with no fear induced auto break make them nearly as good an anvil unit as dwarf longbeards. They'e saved my bacon on more than one occasion. Esp with a warrior priest

Offline LegionsofOdin

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2011, 05:08:17 AM »
i do love the  great swords and they work well for me as a hard hitting anvil unit but, i do think they need some tweaks, either ws 5 or 2 attacks and a banner option or drop the cost.

i still run them though. i put an arch lector and bsb with them and they fight to the death putting down a world of hurt.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 05:55:41 PM by leigonsofOdin »

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Greatswords
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2011, 08:30:55 AM »
I'd go for the 2 attacks base rather than frenzy it reflects their fluff better (they aren't crazed frenzied soldiers they are elite.) and give them the option of taking a magic banner.

While I like the idea of a count's guard gaining "eternal hatred" if the count is slain (severely injured so he can't continue in the battle) I'm not married to the idea.  It's fluffy as all get out and would let a player have a few more options for where he wanted to put his characters.   
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.