Topic: Used a volley gun

[Ben]

I played a 2250 pt Demon list. So decided to take a Volley Gun.

The Chaos player landed his Bloodthirster 8 inches away.

So basically I got the best shot I would ever get. Not that I expected miracles. The VG is pretty much nerfed I think.

I rolled two barrels and the third a misfire and no shots next turn.

Scored 12 hits. So I rolled at 3+ to hit as the Bloodthirster is large.

Ultimately I scored 1 wound.

Would have much preferred the old days and simply rolled 12 dice to wound

I just think a VG that needs to roll artillery dice AND then roll to hit at BS3 is not a great item. Sure I can waste a slot to buy an Engineer.

Does anythink a VG is still worth getting?

Or is the VG pretty much a wasted rare now?

[Warlord]

Or is the VG pretty much a wasted rare now?

Bingo.

The Helstorm is the new Artillery piece of mass destruction. Helblaster now doesn't fail to disappoint.

[revgiblet]

...whereas I love the 7th Ed. Helblaster (and I've played with 6th Ed. rules before).

I agree that it's a paper tiger, but it certainly tends to unsettle my opponent.  Furthermore, I'm sure my love for it is based on the fact that it's been game-winning for me in the past.  I'm positive that my rolls for it are far better than average.

As you can read in the thread I started ("Tell us how a unit won your heart...") I'm a firm believer in the fact that having one great game with a unit can mean it makes your army list time after time after time - even if it fails to live up to its potential in repeated plays.

[murmandamus]

Well i disagree. Hellblaster is still good. A three days ago a star dragon and prince landed near it and in my turn i scored 3 wounds on his mighty dragon. Only if my canons didn't roll two 2 on altillery giant lizard would be dead for certain.

[Nicholas Bies]

Helblasters are misleading weapons because when they do well they do VERY well and make us forget the bad things.

However 1v1 the Helstorm will always be more effective- time after time.

[blurred]

IMHO helblaster is one of the best artillery pieces in the whole game. Sure its prone to misfire, but the table is not that bad nowadays. Also, you get the shots you have already rolled. Large targets should be very afraid of helblasters: S5 and armour piercing is nothing to sneer at. I'm actually planning on getting another helblaster for my infantry horde. They take minimal space on the field, but can unleash a very destructive volley with a bit of luck: its perfect to place between big blocks of troops.

So basically I got the best shot I would ever get. Not that I expected miracles. The VG is pretty much nerfed I think.

Well, bloodthirster costs a lot so it wouldn't be very fair if one 110 point war machine could take care of it.

[Nicholas Bies]

blurred try a helstorm.

I don't think ANY helblaster can annihilate 16/20 phoenix guard in a single volley. A Helstorm can, my helstorm has.

Two of these suckers always firing at the same target can lead to whole units disapearing. 2 Helstorms won't be able to do that.

[revgiblet]

blurred try a helstorm.

I don't think ANY helblaster can annihilate 16/20 phoenix guard in a single volley. A Helstorm can, my helstorm has.

Two of these suckers always firing at the same target can lead to whole units disapearing. 2 Helstorms won't be able to do that.

Technically, the Helblaster could kill up to 30 Phoenix Guard.  It's just the three chances to misfire + having to roll to hit that make it highly unreliable.  In my last game it did nothing.  But that was the first game in about six outings that it hasn't at least made its points back.

I'd always go for a Helblaster over a Helstorm if I'm going to be shooting at single models (like Greater Demons) though.  If I land a template on a, for example, Lord on Dragon they take one hit each.  If I get a volley off at the same target odds are on that I'll be forcing more saving throws than one each.

How does the Helstorm work in the later stages of the game?  Do you still fire it, even though the battle lines have come together?  It always struck me as a weapon that becomes more risky as the game goes on, like the mortar.  I assume that with S5 hits you can throw shots at war machines and things that sit safely behind enemy lines and reduce the chance of it scattering onto your own troops during turns 3 onwards.

[Nicholas Bies]

You have to use it like a WWI Battery. So at the beginning of the game it pounds the enemy frontline trenches. Then as the enemy moves to replace their wire you shift fire forward slightly. Then as your troops cross into no mans land the batteries begin firing further and further back in a creeping barrage. They can even begin counter-battery work.


Usually when I field them I often land 1 volly on my own troops (by accident to be sure but it nearly always happens). It is funny though, and not as frustrating at seeing your Helstorm blow up on its 1st barrel.

[cisse]

So basically I got the best shot I would ever get. Not that I expected miracles. The VG is pretty much nerfed I think.

Well, bloodthirster costs a lot so it wouldn't be very fair if one 110 point war machine could take care of it.

Err... Why not? The bloodthirster shouldn't park right in front of it, if you make mistakes...

[Obi]

I used it too. Annihilated over half a block of HE spearmen with 24 shots.

[dabber]

People keep comparing it to the 6th edition hellblaster without acknowledging that the 6th edition hellblaster was vastly too powerful.  Nothing in the game of vaguely comparable points cost had as much impact as a 6th edition hellblaster.  No legit unit could afford to come near it.  Of course the hellblaster is weaker now!  That is a GOOD thing.

[redflag]

People also forget that if you really want to improve the Hellblaster you NEED to have an Engineer.  All of the sudden you hit at long range at 4+ and at close range at 3+.  Now against a Large Target a Hellblaster will hit at long range at 3+ and at short range at 2+ if you have it equipped with an Engineer.  However you could argue that an Engineer is not worth his Hero slot, if his Ballistic skill was 5 then he would worth his hero slot just on the Hellblaster alone.

[Gneisenau]

...or a Lore of Heavens mage.

I still like the Helblaster. As dabber said, it was too powerfull in the last edition. Now it's perhaps a tad expensive.

It's great against large targets though. If the big nasty approaches the lines, a Helblaster can actually be a better option than a cannon. It's like a shotgun, only for killing giants instead of zombies.

With the increasing number of steamrolling cavalry units, it might be that the Helblaster is put back into service more often.

[Nicholas Bies]

You also have to remember that the Helblaster has a 55% chance of blowing up. Taking not only the 115 pts but also that expensive Engineer- which will probably cost a similar amount of points.

I'm sure the mathhammer people will join now but I thought it was statistically irrelevant for adding an engineer.

[Gneisenau]

55%? During what period of time - over the whole course of the game, if it is fired each turn?

Statistics intrigue me, that's why I'm asking. If somebody has calculated that, he (or she) has done a lot of effort.

[dabber]

Its possible to calculate it out in full, although its a pain.  It has been done before, but I didn't find it in my 30 seconds of searching.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

You can find the maths in that great and very useful article by lackofbettername "Tactica: warmachines (chapter 5B: statistical lifespan of a helblaster)" in the war room.

[mwalsh867]

Our house rules:

Ignore the last paragraph of the Helblaster entry.  Helblasters cost 175 points.

Now THAT is a war machine.

-Matt

[Gneisenau]

You can find the maths in that great and very useful article by lackofbettername "Tactica: warmachines (chapter 5B: statistical lifespan of a helblaster)" in the war room.

Ah, right, thanks. The "55%" irritated me because I automatically thought "per salvo".

So basically, if the stuff you shoot at is expensive enough, it is worth it.

[jekkakhan]

I have given mine the roll of protecting my artillery base which consists of usually 1-2 cannons, a mortar, 12 handgunners and a wizard. Mine has done well in this roll. I just have redefined the role mine plays in my army.

[wissenlander]

Not used it much, but the two times I have in this edition it's been devestating.  It got taken out in one battle after taking down a bunch of goblins.  The other time it lasted the battle after causing some bad casualties to the enemy.

[Dendo Star]

Our house rules:

Ignore the last paragraph of the Helblaster entry.  Helblasters cost 175 points.

Now THAT is a war machine.

-Matt

I need new pants.

[Syn Ace]

In the tournament I just played, in two games the Helblaster turned the day. 2 spectacular misfires -- 30 shots at a Treeman general (dead Treeman general) and 30 shots at a war hydra (dead war hydra).

[Count Alexander]

In my next, 1K game I am returning to the helblaster after a long while of ignoring it.  I will be bringing an Engineer.  If I roll three misfires (not on the re-roll, just normally for each volley) then can he re-roll each misfire?  I would assume that he could.  Another reason to bring the least loved model to the game.  Actually, in the last month or so I have read a lot of love, or necessity, of the Engineer on the forum.  (I just wish they did not get rid of his pistols.)