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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by commandant on May 17, 2024, 11:46:00 PM »
I only looked at the tomb king version but the point still holds.   Dragons are fast but they are not massively faster than most cav.   Admittedly them being able to fly allows them to go in straight lines but they also have to follow the movement rules of closed order.

They have a greater choice about what to charge but they can't just decide I want to charge this by looking at your list.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by Naitsabes on May 17, 2024, 11:38:20 PM »
Dragons are fly(10) at least the chaos and elf varieties. as fast as can be. (except for flying halberdier marching columns!). march blocking for the off-chance they miss a ld9/10 test can't hurt, true.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Greatswords ( again;)
« Last post by commandant on May 17, 2024, 11:07:41 PM »
I deploy the 7 X 3 with 2 10 model detachments deployed 8 wide.   They take up a lot a real estate, pack a massive punch and are hard as nails to shift.   I also tend to add 2 level 2 wizards with a wizard's staff between the detachment and the parent unit. 
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Greatswords ( again;)
« Last post by LGH on May 17, 2024, 11:04:31 PM »
6x4 with griffon banner. BSB with war banner. Add a priest for buffs. Should be good but then again iíve only played bretonnia so far in TOW
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by commandant on May 17, 2024, 10:45:23 PM »
see, that's what I don't understand. The dragon flies. fast. why would it charge the unit you feed? what is this magical-tactical move/placement I miss that forces the dragon to charge what I want and not charge what I don't want?

It is worth noting that while dragons fly they are not very fast.   They are only slightly faster than most cav.   Most dragons are M9.   This gives them some flexibility but there is a myth being built up that they can just pop up where you are not expecting them.   This has not been my experience of dragons or other flying creatures.

March blocking them with a captain on a peggy could be a really interesting tactic.
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Also what does this list use to combat detachments.   The tomb scorpions?

tomb Scorpion has 4 attacks
3 at WS 4 Str 5 and 1 at WS4 Str 5 (plus poison).   They hit on 3+  = 2.66 hits.   Wound on 2+ =  2.22 wounds.

Detachments hit back.   Now it depends on how you are deploying your detachments but if you are like me and deploy them 8 wide then you have 5.78 attacks.   They hit on a 4+ so you have 2.89 hits.   They only wound on a 5+ so you have .96 wounds.   The tomb scorpion then has d3 stomps.
 This should add a further 1.2 wounds.   So your detachment loses combat but not by much. (maybe 1 or 2)   If you detachment is close to your general or the parent unit has a leadership 8 character then there is a good chance (somewhere between 33% and 58%) that you give ground.

If you give ground then you swing at the same time.   The detachment is now attacking with 7.82 attacks (assuming your detachment started off 12 strong which at 72 points is roughly the cost of the tomb scorpion) and also what I suggest for detachments.   That is 3.98 hits which is 1.30.
This leaves the tomb scorpion on .7 of a wound and you have 4.84 models left in your detachment.

Given the way dice work this fight could easily go either way based on the dice not rolling perfectly averagely.   Indeed it would be impossible for the dice to roll perfectly averagely because you can't have 7.82 models.   The tomb scorpion therefore could tie up a detachment but it is not certain that it could beat it.   Also the tomb kings player only has three tomb scorpions and I normally take at least 2 infantry blocks at 2000 points, maybe three.   This gives me 4 detachments, sometimes 6.

The archers are an option.   They get 10 attacks hitting on 5+ which is 3.33 hits and then wounding on 4+ which is 1.66 wounds and the halberdiers have a 6+ save so 1.38 wounds.   If the detachments are 12 strong, roughly the cost of the archers, then the archers are going to be a while taking enough wounds off 1 detachment in order to make it unoperational.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by madeinitaly1 on May 17, 2024, 10:31:14 PM »
Nothing magical, i just played a few times against chaos dragons, you can't kill them in close combat, and they don't fear much our cannons... everytime I tried to kill it I lost badly, when I ignored it it went way better.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by Naitsabes on May 17, 2024, 10:18:58 PM »
see, that's what I don't understand. The dragon flies. fast. why would it charge the unit you feed? what is this magical-tactical move/placement I miss that forces the dragon to charge what I want and not charge what I don't want?
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by madeinitaly1 on May 17, 2024, 10:07:00 PM »
Of course not, you can just "feed" the dragon with some of your units while you face the rest of the enemy army
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Dragon woe
« Last post by Naitsabes on May 17, 2024, 09:48:50 PM »
Probably this is just an unpopular opinion, IGNORE dragons!

Do you mean have a gentlemanly agreement to not field dragons among gentlemen? yes, that worked for us before with Nurgle daemon princes in 8th.
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