Topic: The new and improved rumor mill for 9th edition ( PIC ??)

[GamesPoet]

Ah! And Phew!  For a moment I was afraid the GW language was changing in the 40K realm too.  Eeek!

- - - - - -

I'm sorry to disappoint GW, yet it's going to be a long time if ever that I stop calling Orcs as Orcs, especially tapping longer versions of them from my laptop computer. , and we can only hope that GW won't suddenly do away with the classic O&G looks.

(GP ... no, no, no, don't give GW such an idea!)

Oh, right, I've gone back, crossed it out, shrunk the font, and put a period in after the word "computer", thanks!

[StealthKnightSteg]

It's like its the same, damn guy, over and over and over and over...  "Just give 'em different weapons for the same model.  That's how we can save on product costs while charging the same inflated price points!"

And will save me some money as well.. giving me those weapon options with the same dudes will give me the opportunity to magenetize those options making my paladins multi-purpose. One time I might want to field them as Retributors and the other time as Protectors.

[mottdon]

And thus, they perpetuate the same problem that they had with Fantasy in the first place.  People not spending money and finding alternatives to their price points.  We've come full-circle, except a lot of players are now pissed.

[Zak]

maybe GW is doing the "new Coke" experiment... AOS is so bad when they finally release 9th edition people will flock back to fantasy 

[Gneisenau]

Hello! Have you met the Space Marines? Which are the same model with different weapons? Or, indeed, any army wearing a uniform?

Any army?

[Deuce]

I've looked at those pictures for probably longer than they deserve, and I still can't tell what the meaningful difference between the Protectors, Decimators and Retributors actually is. Is the guy with the mace in each unit the leader, or is that an upgrade option? Other than that it seems just to be the face mask, which is a pretty trivial distinguishing feature.

Having said that, I don't hate them. I have no interest in buying them, but if I were interested in buying anything that looked like them, I would consider buying them. If that makes sense. And if they didn't cost as much as the Stormcasts do.

[Sig]

The Fusilier kit is just awesome. They're the basic line troops too.

The Stormcast mace is the only bit I like. I might ebay the part for a Space Marine character.

[Zak]

I've looked at those pictures for probably longer than they deserve, and I still can't tell what the meaningful difference between the Protectors, Decimators and Retributors actually is. Is the guy with the mace in each unit the leader, or is that an upgrade option? Other than that it seems just to be the face mask, which is a pretty trivial distinguishing feature.

Having said that, I don't hate them. I have no interest in buying them, but if I were interested in buying anything that looked like them, I would consider buying them. If that makes sense. And if they didn't cost as much as the Stormcasts do.

I agree I don't hate their look, but I do hate them for being part of the Warhammer world. FOR that reason alone I refuse to acknowledge their existence in my world 

[Darknight]

They aren't part of the Warhammer world - any more than (for example) McDonald's franchises are part of the landscape of Jurassic North America. Jurassic North America is gone, gone, gone - what is in its place (the USA) has McDonald's all over the place.

If you wanted to paint pictures of dinosaurs (or clone them and make a part, I guess) no-one would expect you to include McDonald's there.

The Warhammer World ended. Given the fact the timeline has been - for the past 30 years or so - within the same few short years after 2500, I don't see any reason at all why you cannot continue to play in that short window.

WWII-game players acknowledge the armistice happened ... but don't play for six years and are then done and never pick the game up again.

[mottdon]

I might ebay the part for a Space Marine character.

This is a huge part of the problem for me.  If you can easily see a Sci-Fi character using a weapon meant for Fantasy and it STILL comes off a "techy" then you're no longer playing Fantasy. 

I have no problem with GW creating AoS.  Their models are fine.  Just don't call it Warhammer or try mixing the two.  Leave them be.  I won't be playing AoS and I have zero interest in these new models.  If they manage to release something that looks more like what we are accustomed to, then I might consider buying a few models to use in my 8th edition games.

BTW, whatever happened to a sub-forum for AoS being created?  Was there a decision on that?  I'm getting really tired of sifting through all of the AoS posts that hold no interest for me.   

[Sig]

Oh I agree, the stormcast stuff isn't good. I've handled the models, shoulders are awful, and hate the masks and muscles.

Chaos stuff is fine.

[Zak]

Well CHum did state he talked with a few guys at GW and they confirmed to him we will be getting more normal looking empire stuff...so here to hope I guess 

[Oxycutor]

I'd take that with a picnh of salt.   

While I am expecting the warrior priests, flagellants, and War Altar to be there for humans in AoS  (there are photos of them alongside the Stormcasts in the book), the rest of the Empire/Bret stuff, I'm not so sure.  It will be human, but I don't think much in the way of a real world medieval/renaissance aesthetic.

Chance are he spoke to customer services, who wouldn't know much about future releases, given how notoriously secretive the company is.  At best, tehy can pass feedback to the studio, but the mninature kits take 2 years from concept to sale.   They are committed to AoS for the foreseeable, and unless it sells very badly, it's unlikely we'll see anything Empire as it was for 2 years.  And if they dropped WFB in favour of AoS because of sales, then chances are they'd just give up on fantasy altogether if AoS flops. 

It won't be until January when the half year trading statement comes out that we'll know if AoS has done mcuh to slow their decline

[StealthKnightSteg]

Those new Paladins are brutal from what I have seen from pictures out of the WD! Decimators and Protectors.

[Midaski]

They aren't part of the Warhammer world -

You keep saying that - over and over.

Why are GW insisting it is called "Warhammer Age of Sigmar"

Why are GW supposedly rebranding all their shops as "Warhammer" and dumping Games Workshop.

If this new setting for Age of Sigmar is NOT a Warhammer World, then what is it?

[Darknight]

The Warhammer world literally blew up - as in, the planet was destroyed.

Certainly, it's the same universe - but not the same world. Every single location where anything mentioned in the background has ever taken place has been destroyed. It no longer exists.

There are a number of ways of looking at it; either we look at "the fictional setting" or "the planet". In either case, the world has been destroyed.

And, of course, the game is not and never was called Warhammer - it was called "Warhammer Fantasy Battles", "Warhammer 40,000" or "Warhammer Age of Sigmar". "The Warhammer world" has been used as a shorthand for "the setting for Warhammer Fantasy Battles" - it is the merest (and inaccurate) pedantry to say "the Warhammer world wasn't destroyed because the new game is called Warhammer Age of Sigmar".

The shorthand names for the games have been / are;

Warhammer = Warhammer Fantasy Battle
40K = Warhammer 40,000
Age of Sigmar = Warhammer Age of Sigmar

So, yes - it is accurate to say "Warhammer" is dead and gone. Everyone knows what is meant - but it seems some people want to confuse the issue for unknown reasons.

[Darknight]

If this new setting for Age of Sigmar is NOT a Warhammer World, then what is it?

I just noticed this; I presume this was accidental (albeit telling) and not weasel-words.

It is certainly not THE Warhammer world. It is "a" Warhammer "setting" (which you could call world - but there are multiple worlds in it, I guess. To call it a or the "Warhammer world" would be like referring to the "40K world").

Certainly; this game is part of the Warhammer franchise (along with 40K and Fantasy) ... but the setting is not "the Warhammer world" as the setting is commonly understood. That setting has been literally destroyed in the storyline.

[GamesPoet]

The Warhammer World ended. Given the fact the timeline has been - for the past 30 years or so - within the same few short years after 2500, I don't see any reason at all why you cannot continue to play in that short window.

Huh?  It hasn't ended, the timeline has progressed in the minds of the developers, that's all.  It doesn't matter where the time line ends in the minds of the developers, there are folks who've gone back on the time line previously, played games and campaigns, written stories, and created models and painted such, all for other eras on the time line.  Maybe in your mind it has ended, but not in many others', and nor will it.

WWII-game players acknowledge the armistice happened ... but don't play for six years and are then done and never pick the game up again.

Is there a familiarlity with what historical gamers even do, and whether there is or isn't, this is inaccurate.

[GamesPoet]

The Warhammer world literally blew up - as in, the planet was destroyed.

Is this some where in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar fluff?

Certainly, it's the same universe - but not the same world. Every single location where anything mentioned in the background has ever taken place has been destroyed. It no longer exists.

I disagree, it exists to me, and I suspect it exists to others.  This all depends on one's veiwpoint.

There are a number of ways of looking at it; either we look at "the fictional setting" or "the planet". In either case, the world has been destroyed.

And there are others.

And, of course, the game is not and never was called Warhammer - it was called "Warhammer Fantasy Battles", "Warhammer 40,000" or "Warhammer Age of Sigmar". "The Warhammer world" has been used as a shorthand for "the setting for Warhammer Fantasy Battles" - it is the merest (and inaccurate) pedantry to say "the Warhammer world wasn't destroyed because the new game is called Warhammer Age of Sigmar".

The shorthand names for the games have been / are;

Warhammer = Warhammer Fantasy Battle
40K = Warhammer 40,000
Age of Sigmar = Warhammer Age of Sigmar

The idea that they are all called Warhammer shows that Warhammer isn't dead.

So, yes - it is accurate to say "Warhammer" is dead and gone. Everyone knows what is meant - but it seems some people want to confuse the issue for unknown reasons.

No, Warhammer is not dead and gone.  Warhammer is alive!

[Darknight]

I will call you pedantic - saying "Warhammer is alive to me" is like saying "Boromir is alive to me". It is right there in the official background / book - guy dies (spoilers? )

Yes, the AoS background states the Warhammer world literally blew up - Sigmar clings to the core of the planet as it hurtles through space. Now, technically maybe it dissolved or .... but the thing is destroyed.

The problem with saying "Warhammer isn't dead" is that we mean different things by it. So, my apologies for not being clear, and moving forward I shall make a very real effort to be so.

The world on which WFB took place blew up in the official background. All the locations are destroyed in the official background - they no longer exist at the "current" point of the timeline. WFB as a game is no longer supported.

Certainly (as I said - does no-one read my posts?) you can (and should) play the game set during whatever point you want. What started this exchange was Zak's statement that the Stormcasts aren't part of "his" Warhammer world .... which I agreed with, because he wants to play EEFL or something like it.

He doesn't want to play Warhammer Age of Sigmar - he wants to play Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

There just seems to be this desire for pedantry ... and a specific kind of pedantry which leads to nothing good. If we just say "Yes, the Warhammer world [setting, as we knew it] is gone and no longer supported, but we can continue to play in it" then much is better.

AoS is a new game - with only the slightest, most tenuous connection to Warhammer Fantasy Battle as we knew it. The rules are different, the models are different, the game philosophy is different. At least as different as 40K and WFB are from each other.

[ZeroTwentythree]

I will call you pedantic - saying "Warhammer is alive to me" is like saying "Boromir is alive to me". It is right there in the official background / book - guy dies (spoilers? )

Yes, the AoS background states the Warhammer world literally blew up - Sigmar clings to the core of the planet as it hurtles through space. Now, technically maybe it dissolved or .... but the thing is destroyed....


((((snip))))


....AoS is a new game - with only the slightest, most tenuous connection to Warhammer Fantasy Battle as we knew it. The rules are different, the models are different, the game philosophy is different. At least as different as 40K and WFB are from each other.

Some people are still in Stage One, Denial. You may have to to give them a bit longer to understand this. 

[Darknight]

Schadenfreude, 023?

The game doesn't have to die - nor does the setting! Any more than WWII players have to stop playing the battle of Kursk!

EEFL! I joked about, I even mocked it - but it makes sense. Plow your energies into that. Into your models, your armies. I have tired - really, I have - I have tried to encourage the Warhammer Fantasy Battle stuff I have seen here this month. I'm working on my pleasant surprise - feverishly, because it is for one of the people most upset by this.

I want to give people something to raise them up. I'm not a bad man. I'm trying, drokk it all. One knee down, head bowed and fething trying, okay?

I want people to have a game to play. I want people to not snipe and snip at each other. I want a place where people can play games and collect models and don't feel crushed and abandoned.

GW left you in the cold. I won't.

Alright, I feel ridiculous now. I'm done. But I wanted to type that. I am trying, okay? Because I love all of you.

[Midaski]

It is one's interpretation of the word 'world'.

On this forum if someone referred to the 'Warhammer World' a few months ago we would have assumed they meant the Warhammer setting to use your terminology, the whole concept, the game or the hobby itself.

You are now using the term to mean a planet - giving the term some sort of physical limits, to suit your agenda.


I'd also like to see what answer you got if you walked into a GW sorry Warhammer store and asked a shirt to explain the 'Warhammer World' to you.

I've just moved Chumley's thread in the B&P which deteriorated and wasn't really a B&P at the end, however it was interesting to see who couldn't resist chiming in and starting the argument all over again.
I thought I'd seen a request from both sides to stop baiting each other which most people had agreed to, but some have gone back on that.



..... and you accuse me of pedantry.   

[StealthKnightSteg]

Those new Paladins are brutal from what I have seen from pictures out of the WD! Decimators and Protectors.

still this 

[Syn Ace]

Warhammer is the overarching brand covering their 2 big games (fantasy was kicked to the curb to be replaced by AoS). The Warhammer Old World blew up and is gone. The vast majority of its fictional inhabitants were killed. Dead. Obliterated. It's not coming back (at least not in the near term; maybe GW will hit the reset in 30 years).

Nothing to stop people playing 1st--8th edition in the mean time (or AoS if they're so inclined, though, personally, I wouldn't use WHFB armies for it).

I play historical games and those wars ended ages ago and I know who won.