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Imperial Artisans ... The Painters, Crafters & Writers Guilds => The Brush and Palette => Topic started by: Gorgash Redfang on October 08, 2012, 01:53:55 AM
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I am very keen to try my hand at mold making, for some of my army bits and terrain and currently doing research in this area, I know some here on this forum have done their own molds and was wondering if any tips tricks were out there or tips that they learned the hard way?
I have seen this instant Mold(or Oyumaru Instant Mould)from Japan, it looks interesting and may suit smaller parts, etc. I am still going to make one and two piece molds to suit what i need, eg. windows/doors for buildings and a few choice parts that cost the earth to get.
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I have ordered some Instant Mold and will be experimenting with it - I shall post results and reports as soon as I get it and can have a play with it. Delivery date is in about a week, I think.
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I have instant mold and generally like it, but am still learning about it. It definitely does as advertised, but the ability to use it properly is up to you.
Be careful though, as reusing it you want to wash it in cold water first, otherwise any dust/debris will get trapped in the mold material.
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I am expecting some molding stuff this week. Will get back to you when I know more. :)
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I use silicone molds!! But I don't use instant mold, I hope someone helps you
If you want anything about silicone, make me any question. I'll be happy to help you
Cheers!
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I use silicone molds!! But I don't use instant mold, I hope someone helps you
If you want anything about silicone, make me any question. I'll be happy to help you
Cheers!
Can you explain this :unsure:
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I've used instant mold to make make duplicates of some old marauder shields that I couldn't afford to buy on eBay and it was great for that....just heat it up in hot water for a couple of minutes...press the shield into it and let it harden....then pull the sield out and put GS in and let it harden...an you have yourself a shield. I think it's good for one of type things...if you are looking to make multiple copies of the same thing you should look to silicone and resin casting.
Let us know how you get on.
Blue
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Can you cast resin in instamold, or do you have to use an epoxy like GS?
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While doing reseach on it, I read an article where someone said you COULD use resin, but you had to make it very thin and small (or, paint on a series of thin layers) because the heat of curing process could deform the thermal plastic of the mold. I suspect it is not recommended, although several commenters said they had got excellent results. It sounded a very delicate process, and would likely be easier to use a silicone mold for resin applications.
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I also use only silicone molds and have made quite a few myself. Can't help you with the insta stuff...
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If and when i start on the molds I will post all my conclusions/F#@* ups
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Must get some instant mold stuff, the re-usability is appealing. Currently I work with fast setting 2 part silicone putty - which is easy to use but not re-usable - and with high temperature RTV silicone liquid - which is a messy sonofabitch but suitable for metal casting. Resin does get quite hot but "ordinary" silicone should cope with it, which is a bit cheaper than the high temp stuff. There are lots of different molding silicones, and lots of resins too, so either experiment yourself or google extensively to find what you need to get!
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I've been making fairly extensive use of Instant Mold. I've not tried it with resin, for the reasons people have already stated to do with the heat. I got it specifically to use with green stuff and Magic Sculp. I've found both to work very well with it, although the Magic Sculp is less clean and leaves fragments that you really need to scrape or wash off before you re-make a mould (as mentioned already).
I've pretty much always used the Instant Mold in a press made of lego, so I could apply real force to ensure things filled in properly. When making 2-part moulds, I found the best was was to make the first half, make the second half on top, and then turn it over and remake the first half. The reason being that when you make the original first half, you can't apply proper pressure because half the model/component is sticking out of the mould. Once it's soundly encased in the second half however, you can lean on it properly when you're remaking the first. If that makes sense...
Biggest trick when using the 2-part moulds is getting the amount of putty right. Bit of an artform, really. Takes practice.
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........................ RTV silicone liquid ......
Yeah I was looking at RTV(Room Temperature Vulcanization) Silicone, it may or may not be messy, but seems to be the best stuff to work with, at least to get the best results. It is that or Latex Rubber?!
I am at resin to make what I am after if only for simplicity's sake, I do have some brick walls etc that i would love to make molds of.
I would rather think big on what molds I will make, if I am going to go to the effort I may as well go for it!
Some items I am thinking of making molds for. ........
Windows and doors for buildings etc
Walls and/or Fences
Ruins parts(maybe)
Tombstones(?)
This is my whole point. If/when i start this "little" project I am going to "think big", as once a good quality mold is made I can produce a lot out of it.
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Well, I got a delivery of my Hoplites today and I have several small components which I need to duplicate a number of times to get the look I want. So, I will be making extensive use of the Instant Mold when it arrives.
I am thinking, with reference to getting the amount of putty right, of attaching a piece of sprue or brass rod to the original component and then making the mold with that in place. Then, I will be able to fill the void for the piece, but not this "vent" space, and have any excess putty squish into the vent space, thus avoiding the problem of overfilling. I don't know how it will work, but it sounds good in theory!
I shall definitely be using the Lego block idea - that is a very good one.
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I don't think you can use latex molds with anything that gets hot. Here's some instructions I've used from an old modelling book:
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Miscellaneous%20Warhammer/castingpage1.jpg)(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Miscellaneous%20Warhammer/castingpage2.jpg)
And you can still buy RTV from Tiranti if you wish, though there are lots of sellers on ebay and beyond.
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My Instant Mold just arrived and I have had a bit of an experiment with it. I think I did pretty much everything wrong :) BUT! Even with my bleeding finger it looks like I might have got a serviceable casting out of it. In any case; I shall let this set up and show pics. I feel I have also learned some useful tricks and will try them next time around :)
EDIT : Using this stuff seems to be trickier than they make it look on the internet :)
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The packaging of Instant Mold isn't very clear. Pour water of 170 degrees on it. What kind? Fahrenheit? Celsius? Kelvin?
(Of course, common sense helps but geez, come on people, that's not very helpful. You're lucky I'm so smart!)
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I just used boiling water straight from the kettle and it softened it very well. The difficulty I had was with air pockets forming around the component. I am revising the large amount of duplicating I was planning to do, as it is not nearly as easy as it seems :)
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I just used the instant mold to create a mold (and copy) of the blunderbuss parts I traded for. It looks pretty interesting. But if I look at the mold, I suspect that I too have air pockets.
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I get the impression it will work well - but it requires a lot of trial-and-error, many failures and is not designed to produce large numbers of complex components. For this reason, I am abandoning my idea of creating halberdier hoplites by casting the axe heads (I might still try to make some from plasticard or something, though) and have traded to get some heads for them. I will still be making olive-oil bottles for my Mighty & Well-Oiled Pektoral Warriors, however.
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I've found that the hotter the water, the more likely of air pockets. You don't want to actually boil the water (Which creates bubbles) Just have it hot. I tend to put a coffee cup in a microwave for two minutes on high. It does bubble, but settles down once the microwave is turned off. I soften the mold in it, you will see bubbles clinging to the mold sometimes. Swish the mold around a bit before extracting it and kneading it (I use a spoon) I've had very little problem with bubbles by doing this.
Also, as I understand it, Instant mold isn't really meant for mass producing items, nor is it suitable for resin or other casting materials that generate heat. It's just a quick solution for a few items that are needed and saves time for those items. In that it functions perfectly well.
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Does anyone know whether it is carcinogenic or has other potentially nasty effects?
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Does anyone know whether it is carcinogenic or has other potentially nasty effects?
I wouldn't eat it. Other than that nothing that I know of. It's not actually being burned as many carcinogens require.
Here's a good review/tutorial posted on Chest of Colors:
http://chestofcolors.com/instant-mold-review-tutorial/
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Hmm. I shall try it with cooler water, then . . .
That review is good. I think I have been trying to get the master out of the mold too soon. Also, trying to make double-sized molds is clearly not as easy as it looks. I shall have more of a go this weekend.
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Hmm. I shall try it with cooler water, then . . .
That review is good. I think I have been trying to get the master out of the mold too soon. Also, trying to make double-sized molds is clearly not as easy as it looks. I shall have more of a go this weekend.
Actually, it was the first thing I tried. The very same arms that I am trading with you (details in PM) are now molded in it. I have one pair drying and one pair being pressurized as we speak.
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Here's the first two attempts at using Instant Mold (both my first attempts EVER and at 3d models)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/Syphonides/Miniatures/SAM_1494.jpg)
I found that the thickness of the models is more than that of the original.
You will also need to reapply the mold and pressure a few times after removing the flash around the model.
Lastly, I had trouble with alignment. My parts are slightly off, which is obviously a bad thing.
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I’ve made moulds to cast resin slot car bodies in the past but it’s expensive and the material goes off very quickly - something like 3 months so I think you’d need to want to make a lot of figures to make it worthwhile.
I’ve tried the Instant Mould with limited success – my main problem has been getting the material to soften – most of the time the outside of the block is soft but there is a solid lump in the centre, even when I use boiling water.
Flat items are relatively easy, lay part on worktop press Mould over and leave to harden, I use it fairly thin due to its non-softening but it does allow you to see if there are air bubbles in which case just reheat and start again.
I’ve not managed a proper two part mould yet as both halves have stuck together and I’ve ruined them getting the original out. With the buckets below I made separate outside and inside moulds and squashed the GS between them. With the ravens I made a deep mould of the front and a shallow one of the back, let the GS harden a bit in the front then pushed the back on to show the shape before removing to sculpt the bit in the middle.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu360/JAKdoor/lmm2.jpg~original)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu360/JAKdoor/dik07.jpg~original)
On reflection I think most things I’ve done have been removed before hard and have had some sculpting work done on them either before fixing to a figure or after being fitted. As can be seen by Syphon’s efforts the material is capable of recreating a good amount of detail.
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The solid lump in the middle can be taken care of by kneading the IM. You won't get a nice block if you do it, more like a blob of the stuff, but it gets rid of the solid lump.
JAK is right, though, flat items are going to be far easier.
JAK, you are aware that the IM is pretty pliable and you can, if you let the GS cure a bit, can easily be removed from the mold?
The way I did it was not to get the GS out of the mold, but rather get the mold off the GS. Does that make sense?
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I found that the thickness of the models is more than that of the original.
I noticed this, but thought it was something I had done wrong. If you are getting that error too it suggests something endemic to the process. I was trying to cast something with a thin profile, so the extra thickness was obvious. I may have better luck with other things. The little bottles I want to copy may work well.
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I doubt it, Darknight.
Personally, I think it's the fact that we used too much GS in the mold.
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No, I think not - at least in my case. I carefully cut a little channel to allow excess to vent - and it DID vent - but the piece was still noticeably thicker. Now, it was only a fraction of a millimeter thicker - but when dealing with a very thin piece this was noticeable.
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Hmm (??) But is this the fault of the GS or the method?
Does GS expand a little when drying?
On the vids of how to do it, (it appeared that) they got perfect copies of what they wanted!
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I don't think it does. I am thinking maybe you should use less GS than you think you need.
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I tried last night making copies of some of the little water bottles in the 6th ed state troops. Despite my best efforts, I used too much GS - it squished out into a thin piece of flash. I am trying again with less GS (maybe too little this time!) The flash isn't an issue; it can be trimmed off, I think.
I suspect the extra thickness of the pieces is caused by the fact the Instant Mold has "give" to it, so when you squish the pieces together it compresses very slightly, leaving a larger void. It could also be caused by the two sides of the mold not keying together perfectly. I think the results are acceptable for most applications; it is only for thing which are very thin and made in two-sided molds that have the problem.
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I just tried it out, and I think it works great. Didn't notice any change in size and it keeps details well.I haven't tried a double-sided mould and I'm not sure I'll need to.
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I actually have more success with single sided molds with it. I haven't had much success in double sided molds with ANY material. I can't use casting rubber to save my life, I am just now starting to experiment with silicon molds, we will see how that goes...
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I used the double-sided method to duplicate some little bottles, seen here (click for larger image);
(http://www.batcave.co.uk/empire/pektoral1sm.jpg) (http://www.batcave.co.uk/empire/pektoral1.jpg)
It works well enough. It is difficult to judge the precise amount of Green Stuff to use - the pieces require careful trimming after the fact. I discovered that a good way to make a double-sided mold is to put of block of the Instant Mold down and press the master into it. This makes a depression with the master sitting in the middle, but with a gap around the edge of it. Then I freeze the Instant Mold for a few minutes, and then push a hot piece on top. This goes into the ring around the master, forming a good mold which "keys" together well.
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Wee bit o' threadomancy here, but justified, I think.
I have been using Green Stuff in the two-sided instant mold molds, but today I mixed up some Milliput (regular yellow-grey) for a separate application and I had a little bit left over, so I thought I might as well try it.
The result was very good - better, I think, than the Green Stuff. The Milliput is squishier, easier to push into place (although it does tend to crack and not form smooth surfaces, this isn't an issue when compressed in the mold.
I might recommend the use of milliput in instant mold, although YMMV.
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So maybe the finer Milliput will work even better? Interesting :::cheers:::
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I just demolded the piece I made last night - it worked very well indeed. I made a single-sided mold and squished milliput in, scraping the excess off so it was smooth. There are a few little blemishes, but that is always the way with Instant Mold stuff and they can easily be cleaned up.
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It only causes cancer in the state of California...
I have used it for small bits and it worked pretty good. I am no expert but I liked it. I haven't tried a large project with it.
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I like milliput for bases and so forth; it cures to a less plastic-rubbery texture than green stuff, but is harder to sculpt with in my experience (it tends to pull apart). But pressing it into a mold seems to work rather well - I have made another shield :)
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I have been experimenting with Oyumaru (it's way cheaper to by oyumaru from ebay than instant mold, though it's exactly the same product)
for about a month now. I haven't done two part molds yet
it seems trial and error are inevitable! my first dozen of trials were total disasters. It takes some time to get the hang of it. Once you do it seems to work perfect!
I found out that heating it up in a cup of water, about 1:30 minutes in the microwave works best for me.
I'm also getting the feeling that it's better to push the object you want to duplicate into the instant mold instead of pushing your mold around the object