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Galactic Conflict & Historical Games ... => Warhammer 40k Discussion => Topic started by: Finlay on October 15, 2011, 01:13:57 AM
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It's list time!
I am unsure how the hell you are meant to transport around this many raiders and ravagers though. I also maybe don't want wracks as they are £20.50 for 5.
Archon, shadowfield, agoniser 100 pts (with incubi)
Haemonculus, liquifier, 80 pts (with wracks)
4 incubi, 88pts venom, 143 pts
9 wracks, raider, flicker field 150 pts
10 wyches, 2 shardnet impalers, syren with agoniser, raider with flicker field 250 pts
10 kabalites, blaster, splinter cannon, raider with splinter racks 185
10 kabalites, blaster, splinter cannon, raider with splinter racks 185
3 reavers, heat lance, 78
3 reavers, heat lance, 78
Ravager, Flicker field, nightshield, 125 pts
Ravager, Flicker field, nightshield, 125 pts
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Ravagers are £9.50 more than raiders, for essentially sponson dark lances.
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I think it might actually be impossible to carry around that many fragile spike-boats!
No idea how good the list is though.
Ravagers are £9.50 more than raiders, for essentially sponson dark lances.
It's the 'not a basic transport' tax. All armies have it!
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I don't really want an all mech army, but av 10 open topped is barely mechanised anyway! and I think there is almost no point not taking transports, unless its some shooty kabalites or trueborn to sit in cover on your objective.
I'd need to get a custom battlefoam army case with dark eldar cut trays I think.
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They are only AV10? What does the force field thing do?
I'd need to get a custom battlefoam army case with dark eldar cut trays I think.
A big one!
Rhinos are great because they are stackable.
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Pondering? Sounds like you've already decided.
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Becareful about getting into Dark Eldar. They all have herpes.
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Especially Venom Spam lists.
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The stackable rhinos are all part of the STC system. Like the list but don't the incbi not have a transport? Also very fragile and none of the really cool new DE models
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The Venom is a transport.
4 incubi, 88pts venom, 143 pts
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I am only pondering, haven't bought anythibg yet.
I think its hard not to make a fragile de list.
And what cool new models?
Reavers, kabalites and wyches are all way better than the old models.
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The talos and the snakeman. There seems to be loads of cool dread size options available I've seen.
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Isn't the snakeman part of that archon's court unit that costs about £50 for five models? In nasty resin.
I mainly just like the jetbike models, I think.
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I'm genuinely a bit confused about the snakeman. He's a bit like the random monkey for daemonhunters.
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I love the incubi models.
That said, anyone playing warhammer needs a Spacemarine army. Barring that, Orks cannot be beaten for cool models.
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The snakeman is in the Space Varangian Guard. Archons don't trust other space elves, so they hire random aliens to protect them.
40K needs more random aliens!
I love the incubi models.
The design of their weapons irritates me.
Hey, I quite like the ones with wings!
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I don't want a space marine army precisely because everyone has one. And I'm not a fan of orks.
I think the talos isn't very good. Nor are scourges, the winged ones.
And I love Incubi and want to use them.
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And I'm not a fan of orks.
Don't let Grishnak hear that!
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Grishnak hates orcs too!
He lures the savage big uns into fighting for him with his special extra potent mushroom brew and amazing wits.
I can't decide about the Incubi. A squad of 4 incubi and the archon will just get murderised by any grey knights they touch, unless they wipe them out first.
Maybe I should have some bloodbrides with a succubus instead.
29 inch first turn charge move!
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No need to assume you will always be playing grey knights!
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40K needs more random aliens!
:icon_lol:
This brings to mind rolling on random monster tables for D&D when I was a kid, and wondering if the newest editon still has those.
I'm imagining 40K where half way through the game players roll on a random monster table, and some horrific creature makes its appearance to rip and shread the two opposing armies to pieces, and the only thing that can be done is for the two armies to combine their might to kill off the creature or be done under themselves.
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I think that's a good idea, actually. I'm sure 40K would be a lot more fun with scenarios (no, the three 'missions' in the rulebook don't count!). Perhaps have a game on a deathworld where there are nasty alien monsters everywhere.
More like the original Rogue Trader rules (not that I've read them).
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Actually, there is a battle missions book GW produced a year or two ago that has different scenarios in it. Somewhere along the line I need to pick one of those up.
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I think that's a good idea, actually. I'm sure 40K would be a lot more fun with scenarios (no, the three 'missions' in the rulebook don't count!). Perhaps have a game on a deathworld where there are nasty alien monsters everywhere.
More like the original Rogue Trader rules (not that I've read them).
there are good supplements with neat rules. Planetstrike and Apocolypse offer cool alternatives.
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Do all grey knights count as psykers?
If so, would a crucible of malediction be worth it?
edit, i found the rule. the squad leader and vehicles do! probably is worth taking it for a laugh.
Here is some completely useless advice I found online.
"They shouldn't be getting within a template distance of your Raiders, Venoms, or Ravagers so the incinerator isn't scary.
Power weapons are useless against wches, apart from taking away FNP
Psycannons shoot 24", if they asre spamming that, stay 25"+ Away from them.
Dreads are mean but they can be stunned every turn, or killed. Just remember, you don't need to kill something to make it not work, if you stun or shaken that dread every round its useless."
Except they can deepstrike the incinerators near you, and open top av ten will probably die to 2 incinerators.
FNP is half of a wych units survivability
psycannons can be assault, so a 30 inch threat range. And still 4 shots if on a dread or razorback with 30 inch range
They ignore shaken and stunned on a ld10 test.
IDIOT.
Someone else just said to shoot until a unit is largely innefective, leaving 2-3 guys.
2-3 grey knights, expecially with a psycannon or incinerator, can definitely do enough damage so that you don't want to ignore them.
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That's the problem with the internet. You don't need to know anything about the matter at hand to give advice...
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:icon_lol: Ain't that true.
And don't post useless info here, unless to debunk it, or it will degrade the integrity of the thread.
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That's the problem with the internet. You don't need to know anything about the matter at hand to give advice...
Someone just posted that "purifiers wont even dent incubi squads"
EXCEPT THEY HAVE 2 FORCE WEAPON attacks, AND WITH HALBERDS, STRIKE BEFORE YOU!
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!
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Grey Knights are silly.
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Necrons will be even more silly.
How to beata grey knights with dark eldar: shoot them. Dark eldar have more shooting and farther range on most of their guns. Grey knights still die as easily as any marines.
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Someone else just said to shoot until a unit is largely innefective, leaving 2-3 guys.
I like it when people give advice that is basically just 'try to win the game.'
Is there a dark eldar forum then?
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Necrons will be even more silly.
At least the fluff is vaguely interesting. My concern with Grey Knights is that their last codex was awful, and now their current codex made the fluff even worse somehow!
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Necrons will be even more silly.
How to beata grey knights with dark eldar: shoot them. Dark eldar have more shooting and farther range on most of their guns. Grey knights still die as easily as any marines.
That's bad. Rufus doesn't like being shot! I can't imagine it would be a fun game to fly my fast stuff around keeping it far away from psycannons while I try to shoot him.
Someone else just said to shoot until a unit is largely innefective, leaving 2-3 guys.
I like it when people give advice that is basically just 'try to win the game.'
Is there a dark eldar forum then?
They are giving advice as if they have never played grey knights. The reference to stunning vehicles is so F*ing ridiculous. Rahhh!
No, I'm just skimming around warseer, librarium online and 40konline in the DE sections
Necrons will be even more silly.
At least the fluff is vaguely interesting. My concern with Grey Knights is that their last codex was awful, and now their current codex made the fluff even worse somehow!
That's why you need to take an inquisitor- that way you can make whatever fluff you want. instead of just "grey knights are the best evar!"
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I can't imagine it would be a fun game to fly my fast stuff around keeping it far away from psycannons while I try to shoot him.
I can't imagine it's possible to keep all of your giant Jabba the Hutt barges out of range of all my shooting on a normal table though. It's just not practical.
Especially with deep striking, teleport shunts, and autocannon dreadnoughts of doom. And potential jokaero range boosts!
The reference to stunning vehicles is so F*ing ridiculous. Rahhh!
You can stun chimeras! I only half-play grey knights.
I advise you to move models around and roll dice. You might win!
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Necrons will be even more silly.
At least the fluff is vaguely interesting. My concern with Grey Knights is that their last codex was awful, and now their current codex made the fluff even worse somehow!
Ah yes the GK fluff is silly. I was referring to the new necron rules :P
They really have begun making fluff for little Timmy. Especially with The Dark eldar dex and Grey knights. I loved the old Daemon hunters fluff. Meh
And yes Finlay, Rufus will probably hate you :P Dark eldar has some very powerful shooting, but aren't overpowered, because when they get shot at as well, they die like flies. Their strong side is that they will probably get to shoot first :P
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The best part is how Splinter cannons actually throw out enough shots to rate as a Infantry Support Weapon in my eyes.
I hated Heavy Bolters and their pathetic 3 shots.
I hark back to the days of SotTR and it's 8 shot LMGs.
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I hark back to the days of SotTR and it's 8 shot LMGs.
Random sequences of letters?
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Secrets of the Third Reich. But really any game which for support machinegun type weapons you roll 6 dice or more I am pleased by. It's actually been a method in which people have tricked me into buying for a game before (like WW1 from Warhammer Historical), saying things just within hearing like "And yeah, machine guns you roll 8 dice".
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I can't imagine it would be a fun game to fly my fast stuff around keeping it far away from psycannons while I try to shoot him.
I can't imagine it's possible to keep all of your giant Jabba the Hutt barges out of range of all my shooting on a normal table though. It's just not practical.
Especially with deep striking, teleport shunts, and autocannon dreadnoughts of doom. And potential jokaero range boosts!
No, but I have what, 4 of them in the list? plus a few venoms plus ravagers.
Deep striking will be the big issue. even a storm bolter salvo on its own is dangerous to DE, let alone psycannons or incinerators.
McKnight, it just doesn't sound like a fun game!
Whitey, get a punisher then! and kill 1 marine a turn. failtastic.
Does anyone know the logic of taking a DE squad with a splinter cannon and blaster? surely you are either wasting the blaster, or wasting 8 splinter rifles and a splinter cannon
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No, but I have what, 4 of them in the list? plus a few venoms plus ravagers.
I was including those. No way can you keep all of that stuff away from my army!
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I didn't know you could still field chimera in grey knight armies.
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I don't play grey knights, I play inquisition. Chimeras are dedicated transports for inquisitorial henchmen squads. Along with rhinos and razorbacks.
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Is that the witch hunters or the sisters new codex? :eusa_wall:
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Huh? It's the grey knights army book! All the inquisition stuff is in there now.
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That head hitting thew wall icon was an accident. I am on my phone!
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Oh, I did wonder why that was there!
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What inquisition stuff do they still have other than the henchmen?
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http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/
It's horrid black with pale text. Just like the dark elf forum.
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Retina-searing!
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That head hitting thew wall icon was an accident. I am on my phone!
:eusa_wall: Try hanging up the phone and using a computer. :icon_wink:
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Movement questions!
DE vehicles are open topped, fast, skimmers. triple extra rule shenanigans!
combat speed: 6 inch move = fire all weapons, all passengers can fire but count as moving. passengers can disembark and assault.
cruising speed: 12 inch move= fire all weapons. passengers cannot fire. Passengers can disembark and assault.
flat out: 12-24 inches move, cannot shoot, passengers cannot shoot, passengers cannot disembark, but you get a 4+ ward save.
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Well, it's fire one weapon at cruising speed, not all. Plus defensive weapons, if any.
Otherwise I think that's right.
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Also if you get immobilised or destroyed after moving flat out, everyone on board the transport dies. Always keep that in mind!
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What page is that on? I can't find it.
Only that you get wrecked if immobilised.
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Also if you get immobilised or destroyed after moving flat out, everyone on board the transport dies. Always keep that in mind!
Nope! I walked into that one as well when I first read the FAQ, but you can emergency disembark, just not regularly.
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Can they emergency disembark? Are you sure?
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Pretty sure.
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Reread it. It says emergency disembarks are only for those times the doors are blocked by the enemy or impassable terrain. The flat out rules for fast vehicles clearly says if you move flat out people cannot get in or get out.
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Ah, now I remember what the kicker was.
FAQ:
Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as
it moved flat out what happens to any embarked
models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.
Note "SAME TURN". If you move flat out and your opponent shoots it down, it is not the same turn anymore.
If you immobilize yourself due to terrain, ramming or other shenanigans while doing the actual move (or if you somehow manage to shoot down your own vehicle) your models are indeed toast.
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But does that count as in my turn 3 and then your turn 3 or are those considered different turns. Or are they two halves of the same turn? If so, that gives a lot of reason to allow your opponent to go first!
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But does that count as in my turn 3 and then your turn 3 or are those considered different turns. Or are they two halves of the same turn? If so, that gives a lot of reason to allow your opponent to go first!
It means player turn, not game turn. Like you say - gameturn wouldn't make any sense.
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hmm.
It seems odd to stipulate if it gets destroyed on the same turn... because it is fairly unlikely to happen, isn't it?
The rules are so unclear it could mean player or game turn, and i can't really see anyway to resolve it.
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Well good, I can start going 18" with my trukks again!
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get ready to argue with your opponent over something which is completely ambigious!
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hmm.
It seems odd to stipulate if it gets destroyed on the same turn... because it is fairly unlikely to happen, isn't it?
Unlikely, but entirely possible.
The rules are so unclear it could mean player or game turn, and i can't really see anyway to resolve it.
Consensus on the net is player turn, which makes sense.
Just imagine the following conversation:
"OK, I hit with my missile launcher *clatter* penetrate! *clatter* immobilized, which means destroyed."
"All right, we have turn 5 now. Who had first turn?"
"You did."
"Drat. In that case they're dead. If you had gone first they'd be fine."
Convinced?
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hmm.
It seems odd to stipulate if it gets destroyed on the same turn... because it is fairly unlikely to happen, isn't it?
Unlikely, but entirely possible.
I've done it.
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That certainly makes sense Aldaris. Although you forgot the dark eldar player failing his 4+ invulnerable too :mrgreen:
I can imagine it being a horrid argument if you were playing someone you didn't know who did it the other way though!
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Although you forgot the dark eldar player failing his 4+ invulnerable too :mrgreen:
Curses!
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New IG list:
CCS, powersword, Missile launcher 75 pts
PCS, 3 flamers. 45
squad, autocannon, gl 65
squad, autocannon, gl 65
squad, autocannon, gl 65
Vet squad, 3 plasma, chimera 170 pts
Vet squad, 3 melta, chimera 155 pts
Vet squad, Harker, 3 melta, chimera, 210 pts
Scout Sentinel, autocannon 40 pts
scout sentinel, autocannon, 40 pts.
Hellhound 130
Leman Russ 150
LRD 165
Basilisk 125
CCS and the platoon sit on/near my home objective, and try to pop transports. The tanks and artillery do what they do.
The sentinels outflank and try and pop rear armour/draw fire.
The plasma vet squad start on the board, the melta and hellhound are in reserve
All I'd need for this would be a Harker (I'd plan to use my Tallarnians for that squad... But might be tricky to convert a tallarnian to be carrying a HB?) and another Chimera. Bit more mobile, bit more deploment options.
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Nice, I like it. it would be cool if the CCS could get some specials as well to make use of their BS, but this is already pretty lean.
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I realised I need an astropath, so I'd have to cut the missile launcher, and all the GL
Although it makes your reserves come on quicker, which you might not necesarily want. It should be add or minus 1.
I should get a vendy really, but they are expensive, I don't fancy painting one, and they look hard to transport.
alternative list:
ccs, powersword, astropath, lascannon, 110 pts
PCS, Al Rahem, Chimera, 4 meltas, 195
squad, AC, flamer, chimera 120 pts
squad, AC, flamer, chimera 120 pts
pcs, ac. 2 flamers 50
squad, ac 60
squad, ac. 60
Vet squad, 3 plasma, lascannon, chimera 190 pts
Vet squad, 3 melta, chimera 155 pts
Leman Russ 150
LRD 165
Basilisk 125
Downsides: spending 110 points on transports for shit troops. having to buy 3 Chimeras.
upsides: reasonable bunker for home objectives, plus 2 more dispensible vet squads in chimeras. Al rahem to come on and claim/contest objectives, and destroy rear armour.
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I like the first one better, although the second one could be improved by a few tweaks. Buying heavy weapons for Al's dudes is not very efficient, the earliest those could get a shot off would be turn 3 (since you can't fire the turn you move onto the board). Spend those points elsewhere, and you might be on to something. I also wouldn't buy the embarked Al'Rahem troops flamers, since that is pretty well covered by the three chimeras they come with. Plasma or Melta would be better for them I think.
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I prefer the first list, because it makes use of the hellhound and sentinels I just bought.
There are two nice Tallarn chimeras on ebay atm. Might see if I can snag them, then worry about Harker.
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I prefer the first list, because it makes use of the hellhound and sentinels I just bought.
Well, that's not a bad reason!
:happy:
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(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/garness/DArk%20Eldar/DSC01848.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/garness/DArk%20Eldar/DSC01850.jpg)
I like these! I want my armour to be the colour of these guys helmets
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Could be Dheneb Stone plus washes (or my monitor has a weird colour setup).
They look good.
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I think so.
The armour is wet blended though- I'm definitely not doing that!
I think bone and purple will look great for the infantry guys, but the raiders etc might look weird. I might make them primarily purple with a bit of bone.
Also, razorwing fighter?
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I think it could work for raiders, too, actually.
I have always wanted to do a bone-coloured army (seriously), but never got around to it. I considered Space Marines, but DE will work just as well.
Looking forward do your work.
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Dhenb stone, army painter light dip and a bleached bone highligh. Finish with army painter matt spray. Sorted.
The DE look great.
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I'm going to do that but gryphone sepia instead of the dip, and then no matt spray.
I am going to go a bit slower and more methodical than with my IG I think.
Now I just need someone to buy my beastmen and 2 xbox games I have to sell so I can buy a battleforce!
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hmm.
It seems odd to stipulate if it gets destroyed on the same turn... because it is fairly unlikely to happen, isn't it?
The rules are so unclear it could mean player or game turn, and i can't really see anyway to resolve it.
Wouldn't page 9 answer this problem? According to this page, the word "turn" means "player turn", unless it explicitly says "game turn".
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Freaking lawyer.
:::cheers:::
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excellent find!
issue explicitly closed.
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Very good find!
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I want my armour to be the colour of these guys helmets
Pink?
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what? They're not pink.
They're creamy/boney/browny washed.
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They look like they've been buying their colored armor or paint from the Tau.
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The guy's entire army is really impressive, imo.
Not all Dark Eldar have to be painted black!
Sentinel!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000782.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000781.jpg)
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It is an interesting DE pattern, and I can understand why painting DE in black might not be one's choice.
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I like the Sentinel! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
When I see your IG, it inspires me to start an IG army, and to paint.
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Aw, the sentinel is doing it's best to get a cover save! :icon_lol:
Nice job.
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Those helmets do look pink. Maybe I'm color blind or have a dodgy monitor.
I like the sentinel.
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They are bone coloured. The only thing is they look like craftworld elder. All in bone they might not though.
If you're going to use ink then you'll need a sufficant to make the ink spread evenly and avoid pooling. A tiny bit of fairy liquid in the water will do.
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The only thing is they look like craftworld elder.
Not in those scary dark elf outfits they don't!
The guy's entire army is really impressive, imo.
I looked it up on that dark city forum, and it really does look amazing.
The floating barge things look even more like the star wars ones the way he's painted them, which of course makes them look far better than they do in the army book pictures.
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Sometimes you're overly opinionated rufus.
Hah, just kidding! You're always overly opinionated!
:engel:
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My favourite thing about Dwhitey is how loveable he is.
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That dudes army looks better than what is in the AB to me as well. The halos on his vehicles look great!
but "dark eldar that aren't in black" seems to offend half that forum.
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Those paintjobs are great.
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I've seen a battle report on youtube where a DE player had a completely white army. And it looked pretty damn good!
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I've seen a battle report on youtube where a DE player had a completely white army. And it looked pretty damn good!
But it is not regulation black and purple.
Release the nerve gas agents in his spinal column.
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but "dark eldar that aren't in black" seems to offend half that forum.
Horrible flashbacks to druchiiiiiiiii.net!
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I just won an old ravager and 2 old raiders, plus some warriors, for £26.
result!
Now all I need are 2 battleforce boxes, an archon, a ravager, and a spaceship.
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Definitely sounds like you are on your way to having a DE army.
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Definitely sounds like you are on your way to having a DE army.
Not really, because he got the old models.
The old, terrible, crush-under-your-bootheel-they're-so-bad models.
So really, all he's done is throw £26 at the internet and scream TAKE IT TAKE IT NOW.
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Oh well, the old ravagers and raiders didn't look bad really. It was only the infantry that was hilariously bad. We always called 'em spiky suppositories.
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So really, all he's done is throw £26 at the internet and scream TAKE IT TAKE IT NOW.
LOL Where have you been all my life?
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Oh well, the old ravagers and raiders didn't look bad really.
Aren't they the same models? They didn't make new ones did they?
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So really, all he's done is throw £26 at the internet and scream TAKE IT TAKE IT NOW.
LOL Where have you been all my life?
Gestating.
Aren't they the same models? They didn't make new ones did they?
(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1420239a_99120112012_DERaider1_873x627.jpg)
(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1252809_99120112003_DERaider2main_873x627.jpg)
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Oh. Not that different.
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Yes, both have spikes and an 80's feel to them.
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The newer one is nicer. Though I would leave off the skulls and spikes.
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The newer ones are nicer, they look sleeker and faster. but the old ones are ok, definitely tyhe highlight of the old model range..
Having a mixed force in a pirate army makes some sense too.
Also, I got a ravager and 2 raiders for the price of one ravager. And potentially the heavy weapon armed warriors might be useful, if the sprues are low on options.
So thats win in my book.
I will dissasemble the horrible old infantry, and perhaps use some part to distinguish trueborn. but maybe not, they are pretty crap.
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I will dissasemble the horrible old infantry, and perhaps use some part to distinguish trueborn. but maybe not, they are pretty crap.
Destroy them.
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or sell them back on ebay!
Actually, I am going to use them to test my colour scheme before my nice new models arrive.
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or sell them back on ebay!
Good luck with that.
:-D
Actually, I am going to use them to test my colour scheme before my nice new models arrive.
Good idea.
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Also, I got a ravager and 2 raiders for the price of one ravager
Bargain!
I approve of that.
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I want to use the Bolter tallarn sergeant as Harker… but obviously not boltery enough. What could I easily do to make it more boltery?
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wrap some ammunition belts around him.
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I want to use the Bolter tallarn sergeant as Harker… but obviously not boltery enough. What could I easily do to make it more boltery?
Do you mean it's not heavy-boltery enough?
Do you have a picture of how it looks now?
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(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m750148a_99060105267_TallarnCaptain_873x627.jpg)
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That's probably good enough as it is.
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Realistically, the people you'll usually play (rufus, us at the bash) will be fine with it. Be prepared for the odd raised eyebrow if you ever play strangers though.
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There are nicer models out there
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/4061939411_88b9df632c.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/4061939411_88b9df632c.jpg)
But for even more humiliation
http://media.photobucket.com/image/40K%20Imperial%20guard/Dannage/Leviathan/volpone175.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/image/40K%20Imperial%20guard/Dannage/Leviathan/volpone175.jpg)
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I'll be hoping to have the DE done in time for the bash, and I doubt I will be able tyo transport 3 armies.
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Holy Crap.
Now THAT'S an army!
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Realistically, the people you'll usually play (rufus, us at the bash) will be fine with it. Be prepared for the odd raised eyebrow if you ever play strangers though.
I would at least give him a heavy bolter for gods sack!
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surely a heavy bolter would be the only requirement, not an "at least"?
The DE guy who whinged about dark lances, and DE in general, has a beautifully painted army. But everything he posts is pretty annoying
If you ignore everything he says and just look at the pics, it's a good thread to go through.
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Harker is a beast. That guy its a girley man.
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But he's not Harker, he's Veteran sergeant Suleiman bin Hammam. Fought in a campaign led by Al Raheim himself, so has learned to use the desert sneakiness/infiltration, and is the leader of the attached Tallarn regiment which has been sent to Kaledonia to provide some seasoned man power to stiffen the green Kaledonians.
I thought you made everyone rename SC in your group? :engel:
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But isn't Harker S4?
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I don't care!
What's the point of saying "special characters aren't special characters, we make people rename them to be more individual so then it is like they just paid points for special abilities, and justifies them being at small skirmishes"
if you then say "your model doesn't look enough like the special character who it is"
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I don't care!
What's the point of saying "special characters aren't special characters, we make people rename them to be more individual so then it is like they just paid points for special abilities, and justifies them being at small skirmishes"
if you then say "your model doesn't look enough like the special character who it is"
Well, you still need to have some sort of explaination for his Space Marine level strength! Of course he doesn't need to look just like Harker, but you should at least try to define why they are different than the other soldiers.
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Bionics under his shirt, like Straken but not as good. Done.
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Drugs (hence the sunglasses).
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Would fit with the arabian theme too.
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Bionics under his shirt, like Straken but not as good. Done.
I actually typed out a reply last night about cybernetics in his turban, which inject adrenaline and steroids and whatever direct into his brain
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Yep, its all fantasy anyway. Ooops, I mean sci-fi ... :icon_lol:
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Bionics under his shirt, like Straken but not as good. Done.
I actually typed out a reply last night about cybernetics in his turban, which inject adrenaline and steroids and whatever direct into his brain
Ha, that's awesome.
Cyber-turban!
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Whilst awesome, you must remember PhillyT is a humourless ice Queen, and will only further disapprove of your shenanigans.
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Acceptance can be a wonderful thing. :icon_cool:
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Bionics under his shirt, like Straken but not as good. Done.
Perfect, done!
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Perfect, done!
What have you done with the real PhillyT?
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He's still there, but as it seems with most, we change over time. :icon_wink:
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Well, all I said was have an explaination for a S4. Saying he has cybernetics and combat drugs works fine for that.
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A robo-turban injecting his brain. Now that's something you'd expect in the 8lanche thread, that's awesome.
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Yeah, drugs, bionics and special bolter ammo should solve the problem.
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Sticking a heavy bolter on him isn't difficult. Take one of the heavy bolters from the various vehicles and put that on him. At least try to customize him!
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I think you are over estimating my modeling skills.
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dark lance mc whineypants has had his army featured on the GW blog this week.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=18500093a
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Wow... those do look fantastic.
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Yes.
But he is smug with it, instead of humble.
Also de won best De general, but just whines about how cack they are all the time, and he refused to post certain pics of his army to the DE forum because "you haven't been loyal, and subbed to my blog"
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He does realize he paints and plays with little plastic models right?
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Have you ever been at Druchiiiiiiiiii?
Seems like the Dark Eldar Dark Elves thing is contageous.
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Oh, that guy. He also whined on his blog that he didn't get recognition for his army.
Which is beautiful, but Jesus, that guy is a bag of whine...
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But he does know he plays with toy soldiers right?
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Have you ever been at Druchiiiiiiiiii?
Seems like the Dark Eldar Dark Elves thing is contageous.
yes, horrible forum! with really OTT mods
The dark city in general seems ok, but this guy seems really annoying. The self righteous douches you get at most clubs.
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Punch him in his neck. Works almost everytime.
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Punch him in his neck. Works almost everytime.
Yes, because the Police always accept that one.
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Of course they'll understand. It's in the law.
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Put him in a rear naked choke.
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That move sounds suspiciously close to a homosexual rape technique which as a Dark Eldar player he may well enjoy.
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When applied properly it is nearly indistinguishable from homosexual rape actually.
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To be honest, it seems like a well done paint job, and it isn't black and purple, but I'm not sure that I like it. However, it does seem to suit the sense I get for Dark Eldar. Maybe it will grow on me.
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Should I hold fire on DE until 6th is out?
I don't want to build an army then have to change it completely for a new edition.
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Should I hold fire on DE until 6th is out?
I don't want to build an army then have to change it completely for a new edition.
You could, for now, restrict yourself to choices which are unlikely to become obsolete. Like warriors.
And you don't seem to be overly concerned with powergaming, so fielding a sub-obtimal list is probably okay for you unless you get completely trashed.
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Go ahead and do it!
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Life is transient. So are 40K rules.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun with the current version.
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I just think the maximum I'd play with them would be 2-3 times.
maybe a couple of games with rufus at warhammer world, and then in Belgium.
Should I hold fire on DE until 6th is out?
I don't want to build an army then have to change it completely for a new edition.
You could, for now, restrict yourself to choices which are unlikely to become obsolete. Like warriors.
And you don't seem to be overly concerned with powergaming, so fielding a sub-obtimal list is probably okay for you unless you get completely trashed.
I can't really field that sub optimal, because I'm not very good. And I don't mind losing, but getting thrashed every game, especially if it was in the first couple of turns, makes me sulk!
My main concern is that there will be a backlash on transports, and DE, even more than MEQ, need to be mech. (or webway)
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According to the (still extremely early) rumors, non-open topped transports will take a hit, insofar as you can't claim objectives while in a closed transport and objectives are scored per turn held.
So if this pans out your D-E should be fine on that front.
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Hm, that doesn't sound too bad as a rumour. I like it, actually.
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me too, although the "scored per turn held" negates the DE ability to swoop 24 inches on the last turn FTW, and probably necessitates some wracks in the army, for T4 and FNP.
I was reading a 6th ed thread on warseer, and someone suggested that fix for transports, and also if you shot from them you counted as open topped the next turn.
They don't seem to be able to balance transports- flipping from too good to too crap each edition.
another rumour- rapid fire can shoot twice at full range if still, or once at full range if moving. That also makes foot stomping a little more viable/maneuverable.
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I've been on a bit of a 40k binge.
Sorry the pics are so crap, it's so dark at the moment!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Meltas.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Tallarn.jpg)
Finished my melta metal cadian vet squad, and finished off some Tallarns.
I think I need an astropath, 1 melta Tallarnian, and a chimera to round off the last 1500 point list I wrote.
OH, and I need a sentinel foot, as I lost one of mine.
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I like those Tallarns.
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Good to see you kept the blue color. :::cheers:::
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Like the tallarns camo scheme. However the second from the left has a bit of blue on his shoulder armour that need touching up.
good job though, need a group pic
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I'm quite please with them irl, but the pictures make them look an absolute mess.
Group shot of the Tallarns? or the whole army?
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Think you showed us the whole army, of course maybe without the updates.
But yes, a picture of all the Tallerns together, now or when there complete, could be cool! :icon_biggrin:
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I'm quite please with them irl, but the pictures make them look an absolute mess.
Models always look better in person!
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I'm quite please with them irl, but the pictures make them look an absolute mess.
Models always look better in person!
The other pictures look ok though.
My sentinel picture looks ok!
These look like they were painted by a 10 year old.
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Just the tallarns. Models do always look better irl unless you have crazy skills.
I must start a blog for my marines. They are progressing, slowly. Takes over a night per marine. Nearly have 2 squads done
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They look OK! It's hard to take good pictures.
I must start a blog for my marines.
Yes, put some pictures up.
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definitely put up some pictures.
Are you going to take them to the EB?
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Yes, only need to do 36 marines, f tanks and 6 speeders, actually that sounds a lot.
Will wait for the light to improve and take some photos of the 13 done
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Yes, only need to do 36 marines, f tanks and 6 speeders, actually that sounds a lot.
Will wait for the light to improve and take some photos of the 13 done
That army is going to take you forever!
The ones you've done do look really nice though.
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Random blood angels list!
1500 pts exactly.
Librarian jet pack, 125 pts
Chaplain, with death company, 100 pts
Priest, with one unit of rhino marines. 50
death company dreadnought, storm talons 125 pts
5 death company, 2 power weapons. 150 pts
5 assault marines, flamer, power weapon, rhino, 140 pts
5 assault marines, flamer, power weapon, rhino, 140 pts
10 assault marines, 2 meltas, power weapon, 225
baal predator, 115
baal predator, flamestorm cannon, 2 heavy flamers, 140 pts,
storm raven, multi melta and assault cannon, 200 pts
Super storm raven full of death company!
super flamey baal predator so I can shout TROGDOR as I place 3 flame templates down!
probably not that good! (long range AT, lack of meltas, lack of bodies?)
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Which powers does the librarian have?
Surely you want razorbacks for the five-man squads, not rhinos?
Isn't that death company squad expensive and not very good? I'm assuming they only have two power weapons between them, not each! In which case they cost 130, don't they?
super flamey baal predator so I can shout TROGDOR as I place 3 flame templates down!
I doubt you will be able to fire all three flame templates at the same target very often! Maybe leave the sponsons off and just use the turret super-flamer. Especially since the super-flamer is AP3, so using AP4 heavy flamers as well might actually reduce the number of kills sometimes (using crazy wound allocation rules).
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Dump the flame sponsons. Remember it has scout, so you go 18" before the game starts and 12" again and flame the juiciest power armour target that you can get to :D
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Which powers does the librarian have?
Surely you want razorbacks for the five-man squads, not rhinos?
Isn't that death company squad expensive and not very good? I'm assuming they only have two power weapons between them, not each! In which case they cost 130, don't they?
super flamey baal predator so I can shout TROGDOR as I place 3 flame templates down!
I doubt you will be able to fire all three flame templates at the same target very often! Maybe leave the sponsons off and just use the turret super-flamer. Especially since the super-flamer is AP3, so using AP4 heavy flamers as well might actually reduce the number of kills sometimes (using crazy wound allocation rules).
probably guard and re roll hits.
Yes, but no points. but If I drop the points to 130 for death company, and the sponson, I can probably fit in razorbacks.
I don't think 130 points is that expensive, I basically tried to make stuff to go in the raven which wasn't that big a deal if it died. But if I can drop 5 DC and a dreadnought right next to a pack of infantry, it will go nicely!
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Looks fun. BA lists do tend to be on the low model count side. Improvements have already been mentioned - one more: if you can I'd possibly give the Death Company one Thunderhammer, just so you can deal with all kinds of stuff being thrown at you.
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I like Death Company. They're just like normal marines to my Harlequins. :engel:
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Well, expensive for five guys. But they do get to reroll everything with the chaplain, which I hadn't realised. So probably they are good. The dreadnought is certainly nasty against infantry.
No ward save on the librarian! I suppose the storm shield is too expensive. I like the idea of hitting him with mindstrike missiles from the stormraven (any hit on a psyker causes a 'perils of the warp' autowound as well). Fire all four missiles at once at his unit!
Hey, you can get heavy flamer razorbacks without paying any extra points! They might actually be worth having.
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Yes, they're certainly not bad. But I think the location of the muzzle is a bit awkward on a RB turret since it's pretty far back on the model, so you'll lose some range compared to, say, a hull mounted one on a Chimera. Try it out.
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I was just surprised that it's free to get the flamer, since it's +25 points in the grey knights book. And surely it's no worse range-wise than the superflamer predator?
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You're propably right - I was just wondering why that turret isn't taken more often.
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I was just surprised that it's free to get the flamer, since it's +25 points in the grey knights book. And surely it's no worse range-wise than the superflamer predator?
yes, because that turret is at the front, and the barrel protrudes.
it probably has 3 inches more range than a razorback turrert
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No ward save on the librarian! I suppose the storm shield is too expensive. I like the idea of hitting him with mindstrike missiles from the stormraven (any hit on a psyker causes a 'perils of the warp' autowound as well). Fire all four missiles at once at his unit!
Grey knights are fucking ridiculous.
"lets write a codex where they have a special rule to counter EVERYTHING"
"challenge accepted"
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Grey knights are fucking ridiculous.
"lets write a codex where they have a special rule to counter EVERYTHING"
"challenge accepted"
(http://www.beerpongworldcup.com/images/LOL%20WUT%20BUNCHIES%20BEER%20PONG.gif)
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yes, because that turret is at the front, and the barrel protrudes.
it probably has 3 inches more range than a razorback turrert
I thought it was in the same location as a razorback turret? Besides, GW don't make a heavy flamer razorback. So who's to say how long the barrel should be?
"lets write a codex where they have a special rule to counter EVERYTHING"
"challenge accepted"
Don't blame the knights: blame the warp for being perilous.
I'd better not mention the 'psych-out' grenades that every grey knight has, which make psykers initiative 1 in combat.
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Grey knights are fucking ridiculous.
"lets write a codex where they have a special rule to counter EVERYTHING"
"challenge accepted"
Oh dear.
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To think about it...that someone called ME a troll :closed-eyes:
Well I think Grey knights are just very good at killing psykers.
Do they have good crowd control though. Try a 300 trooper IG list with loads of heavy weapons.
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Well, Purifiers give them pretty good crowd control. Other than that, not so much.
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(http://thetoyhq.com/shop/images/GW48-21.jpg)
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/4/13/97778_md-Baal%20Predator,%20Blood%20Angels,%20Conversion,%20Space%20Marines,%20Tank,%20Warhammer%2040,000.jpg)
You can't deepstrike vs them, you can't use psykers vs them, you can't use demons vs them, you can't use monstrous creatures vs them, you can't really close combat them because i6 force weapons, you can't really glance them.
So you just have to run around shooting them from miles away.
To think about it...that someone called ME a troll :closed-eyes:
Well I think Grey knights are just very good at killing psykers.
Do they have good crowd control though. Try a 300 trooper IG list with loads of heavy weapons.
how many points is 300 troopers?
also: strength 6 flamers.
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That's a bolter turret! And you can put the hatch cover on the other way so the turret is at the centre instead of at the back.
Still, maybe this is why no one uses the flamer razorback.
Also, I get the feeling Finlay won't want to play me anymore.
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You can't deepstrike vs them, you can't use psykers vs them, you can't use demons vs them, you can't use monstrous creatures vs them, you can't really close combat them because i6 force weapons, you can't really glance them.
Depends on their list, and you can deepstrike just not right next to them.
You can use Psykers, just have to be mindful of protecting them and where they are.
You can use Daemons, but yes, it can be unfair to the Daemons player in this case.
You can use monstrous creatures, they have to wound them to use the insta kill force power, and that will be hard for normal squads. Also, they can't use it AND hammerhand, so no strength 6 or whatever.
Not all of them have I6 power weapons, it's actually a weapons choice people don't even always use. I personally would use it after playing Eldar for awhile, I love high initiative.
You can immobilise and destroy weapons on a glance.
Also, I get the feeling Finlay won't want to play me anymore.
You're either heavily tailoring your list to kill him specifically, or he's just being incredibly, over the top whiny.
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Well spread out men......we can´t! Sir
S6 or 5 makes no difference fo the trooper he dies for the Emperor no matter what.
300 are 1500 points so only works in larger games.....200 might be sufficient in a 1500 game though with autocannons make that
2 command squads with a lascannon each
4 platoons with 50 men each all squads with an autocannon
20 autocannons 200 men.....he can´t purify them all and at one point his killing maximium will exceed (his fingers will bleed from rolling dice) and you will be declared winner.
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You're either heavily tailoring your list to kill him specifically,
Quite the reverse!
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You can't deepstrike vs them, you can't use psykers vs them, you can't use demons vs them, you can't use monstrous creatures vs them, you can't really close combat them because i6 force weapons, you can't really glance them.
Now I'll have to go to the post office and send you a hanky to cry in.
You can do better than that whiny hyperbole BS.
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Also, I get the feeling Finlay won't want to play me anymore.
No, I just wont make a deep strikey, librarin BA army.
But I wasnt going to anyway, as it doesn't match up well with the megaforce.
s6 does make a difference, insta kill weapon teams and officers. Also very scary to rear tank armour.
whitey, I think the i6 weapons are great versus other power armoured people. I think it's probably really hard for marines to kill GK in combat. Maybe Orks are good vs GK- close combat army that doesn't care about force weapons really.
Na, he's not tailoring his list. I just thought it was funny that I was talking about a sliscus DE army, and then "oh no, can't do that, warp quake" and then bringing a librarian "oh no, can't do that, mindstrike".
I think GK are tough for DE, especially with autocannon dreads. The stormbolters are nasty to transports, especially with psybolt. And you can't use your pain tokens because almost everything they have ignores FNP.
Aldaris, I think my list of what you can't do vs GK is not hyperbole bullshit, but pretty accurate.
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Aldaris, I think my list of what you can't do vs GK is not hyperbole bullshit, but pretty accurate.
No, it isn't. MrD already answered in detail. I can too if you want. "You can't you can't you can't" isn't "pretty accurate".
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I can just use my imperial guard instead.
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it's fairly easy to cover most of the board with the "12 inch dont deepstrike", and then it becomes pointless to deepstrike.
I don't think its that hard to wound monstrous creatures.
And I don't see how other marines would beat them in CC. (purifiers: 2 attacks, force weapon, storm bolter, psychic attack which wounds half the enemy: 24 pts.
Honour guard, 2 attacks, powerweapon, storm bolter, FNP and FC, 41 pts.)
Psykers and demons is, as that is what GK are for.
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I can just use my imperial guard instead.
No, It was just funny that I suggested sliscus, and then the deep striking BA librarians, and both denied.
DE will be fine vs your army. There are enough henchmen and stuff for the wyches and warriors to try and kill, and there are enough transports you can't kill them all immediately. I'll just have to try and shoot the actual grey knights.
I think it is mainly when people use 3 of the autocannon dreadnoughts which upsets DE players.
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I don't think its that hard to wound monstrous creatures.
Rolling to hit, then needing sixes on pretty much all MC's is not usually considered "easy to wound" to be fair. Again, no Hammerhand (str6) AND insta death.
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I don't think its that hard to wound monstrous creatures.
Rolling to hit, then needing sixes on pretty much all MC's is not usually considered "easy to wound" to be fair. Again, no Hammerhand (str6) AND insta death.
how many points are MCs though? how many points is a unit of purifiers? you only need 6 hits to "averagely" kill it.
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Purifiers are elite. And they mount up to 300 points fast without even factoring in a transport. And they die just as easily as any other Marine. Purifiers are not the be-all, end-all of any GK list. Pretending they are the ones doing everything doesn't really help your case.
MrDWhitey already covered Psykers, but I'll do it again: if you don't engage in combat with your psyker you can use them just fine.
"I do think it's that hard to wound MCs": A normal Strike Squad has one attack per model, and usually won't get the charge. Without Hammerhand, you'll hit on 4, wound on 6. If you don't pull it off, you're toast.
And it's easy to cover the board when you take lots of Strike Squads and spread them out a lot. Do I really have to tell you that this has problems all of its own?
But if you want to sulk and pretend that Grey Knights are unbeatable, I guess you can. *shrug*
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Orcs seem to be their arch enemy....why don´t you create an orc army lead b y gretchin called Grichnak the II?
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I'm not pretending they are unbeatable, they just make you run around shooting them in the face from long range, and make deepstriking armies unviable, imo. BTW, do the demonhammers count as force weapons as well? if so there goes the "it's hard to kill MC in combat" argument.
They die just as easily as any other marine, except you cant stay in close combat with them, or you'll get force weapon'd in the face.
Fandir: 40k orks just don't do it for me. I also don't want to paint 150 models.
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I'm not pretending they are unbeatable, they just make you run around shooting them in the face from long range, and make deepstriking armies unviable, imo. BTW, do the demonhammers count as force weapons as well? if so there goes the "it's hard to kill MC in combat" argument
Unless Demonhammers come as standard on every single bloody grey knight, no it fucking doesn't.
And having checked, no they do not. They are an upgrade.
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I'm not pretending they are unbeatable, they just make you run around shooting them in the face from long range, and make deepstriking armies unviable, imo. BTW, do the demonhammers count as force weapons as well? if so there goes the "it's hard to kill MC in combat" argument
Unless Demonhammers come as standard on every single bloody grey knight, no it fucking doesn't.
You can't snipe the demon hammer carrier, right?
the chances of getting 6 normal hits through, or 1 demon hammer one, seems pretty good to me.
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But if he inclueds ALL the options to meet ALL your threats...won´t his army be ultra tiny?
You could swarm em with cheap stuff kill half of them in range and then just charge in with 20 troopers and kill off the other half.
4 power sword attacks from the sarge and another 4 from a commisar should do the trick to kill 2-3 of them per cc and he can´t snipe those either.
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I'm not pretending they are unbeatable, they just make you run around shooting them in the face from long range, and make deepstriking armies unviable, imo.
No, just no. You can cc many units in the army just fine. Strike squads, normal henchmen, Terminators. All of those evaporate to large units with many attacks.
The Grey Knights army is not made up solely of Purifiers and Death Cult assassins.
BTW, do the demonhammers count as force weapons as well? if so there goes the "it's hard to kill MC in combat" argument.
They do, and it doesn't. If you rely on two attacks that have a 50% chance of hitting, then need to wound and THEN need to trigger a psychic power still isn't exactly a sure thing, and that's not even factoring in invulnerable saves or eternal warriors.
Finlay... all we're telling you is your "you can't you can't you can't" whine was exactly what I told you: pessimistic, hyperbolic BS.
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But if he inclueds ALL the options to meet ALL your threats...won´t his army be ultra tiny?
You could swarm em with cheap stuff kill half of them in range and then just charge in with 20 troopers and kill off the other half.
4 power sword attacks from the sarge and another 4 from a commisar should do the trick to kill 2-3 of them per cc and he can´t snipe those either.
No Fandir, whatever you try you autolose to GK.
This is all a fucking joke.
Frankly I'm going to go buy some GK boxes now because I love winning, and it seems the way to do it.
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I haven't played 40k in ages. Is there a third party here with experience in using GKs and at least one other army who can give an opinion on GKs?
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McKnight plays them, I only have experience against them.
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But if he inclueds ALL the options to meet ALL your threats...won´t his army be ultra tiny?
You could swarm em with cheap stuff kill half of them in range and then just charge in with 20 troopers and kill off the other half.
4 power sword attacks from the sarge and another 4 from a commisar should do the trick to kill 2-3 of them per cc and he can´t snipe those either.
No Fandir, whatever you try you autolose to GK.
This is all a fucking joke.
Frankly I'm going to go buy some GK boxes now because I love winning, and it seems the way to do it.
I don't know why you are getting upset! I don't think they are unbeatable! but the chances of a squad with a demon hammer killing a MC are pretty good, although obviously not a sure thing, but I never said it was.
Fandir, if you are taking more than maybe one big squad with power weapons, you are gimping yourself vs other armies. and if he can get a dreadnought, death cult, or purifiers into combat with them, then they disintegrate.
Aldaris, which books have access to large units with many attacks? orks? Tyranids? black templars?
ok, keep psykers out of combat, fine.
deepstriking, yes there will be some places you can deep strike. but it will be restrictive enough not to bother.
MCs, if he has demonhammers I think there is no point.
They just restrict list building choice in a way which other armies don't, I think.
It's sort of like how I felt about ASF for highelves, and everyones answer to that- "shoot them with handgunners, mortar them"
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I haven't played 40k in ages. Is there a third party here with experience in using GKs and at least one other army who can give an opinion on GKs?
every other 40k site in the world thinks GKs are the best book, just for some reason here whitey, philly and aldaris don't think so. Space wolf longfang spam, and BA razorback spam, and the nasty Ig lists are comparable in strength.
close to 50% of tourney players use grey knights.
I don't think they are unbeatable (even I have beaten them once! and fr1day beat them. as I have said all along, my specific problems come from me being a shit general), I don't think they make the game inherently broken, they just have a lot of good special rules, and I happened to talk about two armies this morning then realise "oh, no, can't do that"
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If you're a bad general, why don't you take GK to balance things out. :icon_wink:
Kidding. I can't and won't take sides here.
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I don't know why you are getting upset! I don't think they are unbeatable! but the chances of a squad with a demon hammer killing a MC are pretty good, although obviously not a sure thing, but I never said it was.
You did! Your intial statement was a list of things you "can't" use against GK. And since then you're sitting on it.
And it's incredibly annyoing.
Aldaris, which books have access to large units with many attacks? orks? Tyranids? black templars?
And Dark Eldar, and Imperial Guard, and others too I'm sure. Frankly I'm not interested in composing a comprehensive list.
ok, keep psykers out of combat, fine.
deepstriking, yes there will be some places you can deep strike. but it will be restrictive enough not to bother.
MCs, if he has demonhammers I think there is no point.
Apart from EW, Invulnerable saves, psychic defense like Shadow in the Warp or Runes of Warding to prevent force weapon activation and only two attacks... which I listed.
:roll:
They just restrict list building choice in a way which other armies don't, I think.
It's sort of like how I felt about ASF for highelves, and everyones answer to that- "shoot them with handgunners, mortar them"
You can beat them with a balanced list.
I beat the snot out of HE on a regular basis by the way. Without tailoring for them.
every other 40k site in the world thinks GKs are the best book, just for some reason here whitey, philly and aldaris don't think so. Space wolf longfang spam, and BA razorback spam, and the nasty Ig lists are comparable in strength.
So we need to turn this here into warseer 2.0? Hey, great idea! Because whining on the internet is always right! And repeating second hand whining is even better!
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Here's an idea. Finlay, why don't you swap armies once in a while with rufus? That might give you an idea about the GK's weaknesses.
And when you guys meet next at the EB, you can settle this like men. By sitting down and having a game.
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I want to play games with Finlay anyway, and there's nothing to settle. I just hate it when absolutes are stated as facts and then places like whineseer and "the tournament scene" are dragged in as a reference. I hoped we had a better place here. If I want to read endless streams of "ZOMG XYZ is totally broken and you can't do ABC evar" I can think of a lot of places who got that covered just fine. I like W-E because many posters are reasonable and nice, have an open mind and don't just repeat what the whining community states as facts like automatons. And I would hate it if Finners joined their ranks, because I like him.
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I'm not trying to whine, or say that GK are invincible!, I am just saying that taking MC orientated army (nids?) and deepstriking armies vs GK is giving yourself a big handicap.
I already gave you "keep librarians out of combat" although realistically that is harder to do than say it, and you are then wasting 100+ points of HQ.
IG can't have large squads with many attacks, only large squads. They can have the same Cc potential as henchmen squads.
DE can have large wych squads, but bigger than 10 means your foot stomping, which means you are dead to storm bolters.
My point wasn't that ASF HE were overpowered, just that it made a quite boring game, imo. And skaven vs HE? pretty good matchup for skaven.
warseer 2.0, the dark city 2.0, librarium online 2.0, warhammer online 2.0... I was just telling patsy that other people as well as me think GK are good.
Here's an idea. Finlay, why don't you swap armies once in a while with rufus? That might give you an idea about the GK's weaknesses.
And when you guys meet next at the EB, you can settle this like men. By sitting down and having a game.
I know the weaknesses- small model count, as easy to kill as normal marines.
It just means with DE you have to fly around trying to stay 30 inches away and dark lance everything.
I think me and Rufus are going to play in November. I'm looking forward to trying to autocannon everything in the rear with my scouting sentinels, and harkering everything in the rear with Suleiman bin Hammam.
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I've thought of a great Imperial Guard list that I'd rather use anyway!
Though it optimistically assumes I will soon have a vendetta gunship.
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I want to play games with Finlay anyway, and there's nothing to settle. I just hate it when absolutes are stated as facts and then places like whineseer are dragged in as a reference. I hoped we had a better place here. If I want to read endless streams of "ZOMG XYZ is totally broken and you can't do ABC evar" I can think of a lot of places who got that covered just fine. I like W-E because many posters are reasonable and nice, have an open mind and don't just repeat what the whining community states as facts like automatons. And I would hate it if Finners joined their ranks, because I like him.
The things which I stated make sense, I think. okay, you "can" do them, it just is not as tactically viable as not doing them. The chance of your MCs getting instantly killed in combat is high enough to make that army too risky to run vs GK, imo.
It is only the same as saying "don't take storm troopers in your army, they are too expensive for what they do"
or "drop the heavy flamers from the baal and upgrade your rhinos to razorbacks"
or "maybe a unit of huntsmen isn't a great idea"
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I'm not trying to whine, or say that GK are invincible!, I am just saying that taking MC orientated army (nids?) and deepstriking armies vs GK is giving yourself a big handicap.
No Finlay. If that had been what you were saying I would have nodded and moved on.
IG can't have large squads with many attacks.
Oh really, can't they. What about a 30 man joined squad with a commissar. That's only a bit more than 60 attacks on the charge, and pretty cheap too. And if you play those you're usually giving them furious charge as well. Those will gobble up strike squads and Terminators just fine, believe me.
warseer 2.0, the dark city 2.0, librarium online 2.0, warhammer online 2.0... I was just telling patsy that other people as well as me think GK are good.
Nobody is saying they're bad...
Is that really what you think has been said here?
It is only the same as saying "don't take storm troopers in your army, they are too expensive for what they do"
or "drop the heavy flamers from the baal and upgrade your rhinos to razorbacks"
or "maybe a unit of huntsmen isn't a great idea"
Not really, since those are general pieces of advice based on the internal composition of an armylist, regardless of opponent.
You were saying that you're autoscrewed if you have X in your list and play GK. But since you've softened that a bit apparently I think we can stop this here.
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Only nids can do an army based on MCs, right?
So yeh, I do think a MC nid army and all deepstriking armies are screwed vs GK. But it's ok because I don't want nids, and I'm not going to make the BA army because it doesn't match up with the megaforce at all. and I will just save Sliscus for fighting other people at the EB.
a 30 man squad, with sergeants with p/weapon, commissar with p/weapon and a priest is quite a lot of points, greatly diminishes your anti mech capabilities, and generally wouldn't be taken in an all comers list. Far too slow and cumbersome, far too susceptible to template weapons. Hell, it's far too susceptible to stormbolters.
If you are taking options to tackle GK in CC, you are probably neutering your army for other opponents.
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a 30 man squad, with sergeants with p/weapon, commissar with p/weapon and a priest is quite a lot of points, greatly diminishes your anti mech capabilities, and generally wouldn't be taken in an all comers list.
Oh really.
First, I wasn't talking about a priest. Second, how are you compromising your AT with this?
3 Squads with Autocannon each, commissar, 3 Powerswords. 245 points that are useful in all phases of the game. A typically equipped GKSS is just shy of 300 and will lose hilariously to this.
And you are aware that you can use cover and space models 2" apart, yes?
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Straken then? Even more points, even more in the "neuter army to try and make it do something it isn't good at".
245 points. how many points is a death cult squad in chimera?
30 models spaced 2 inches apart... how much space does this take in your deployment zone.
How big cover pieces are you using if you can get this in cover.
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Straken then? Even more points, even more in the "neuter army vs everything except GK".
Straken or Creed, and again, how are you "neutering" yourself against other armies? This is a good loadout in an all comers list.
245 points. how many points is a death cult squad in chimera?
A bit less. Your point?
30 models spaced 2 inches apart... how much space does this take in your deployment zone.
How big cover pieces are you using if you can get this in cover.
Enough that you can't just run in and get at the other stuff in the army, like tanks. Spacing will prevent losses to templates. And a normal wood and something else will give you cover just fine.
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I think too vulnerable to template, and too cumbersome to move and deploy really.
But a good point that it blocks access to stuff behind.
anyway!
My first batch of ebay DE arrived today! hurrah!
Incoming test colour schemes.
I keep losing chimera auctions. I need one more.
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I think too vulnerable to template, and too cumbersome to move and deploy really.
If it wouldn't be too many damn armies to transport I'd say Ill just bring a list with 2 such squads and kick your ass with them. Since that won't be possible we'll just have to agree to disagree.
:wink:
anyway!
My first batch of ebay DE arrived today! hurrah!
Incoming test colour schemes.
Looking forward to seeing them. What arrived exactly? That ebay win with the old models or something else?
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What are you bringing, CSM?
ebay. 2 raiders, ravager, and some warriors.
The warriors are ok, apart from their heads. So I think I will headswap them to be able to use them.
I think the raiders have splinter cannons on the front. Which i don't think you can even do anymore. So maybe it doesnt matter.
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We'll see how much we can fit in the car, and how vigorously Gneisenau struggles. We'll have to tie him up real good or he might roll around in the trunk and damage some models.
If I can fit it all in I'll bring Skaven, CSM and whatever I have done in the Necrons department till then. That's a big "if" though.
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In 8th edition you can swarm High elves and do decent damage even with goblins...they are expensive.
in 40k two units out of six squads get a commisar and a sarge with power weapon if the squad fights a dreadnough they are boned...yes unless you hand out a melter bomb to the sarge...5 points well invested make sure you tell your opponent before the game though.
60 men are sufficient infantry wise in an average army I guess and depending on the mission and the opponent you can go 30 guys unit or 3*10 or 20 20 10 10
With creed a blob of 20 should be able to bag those purifiers in you could even run towards them don´t shoot your lasers run a bit more scream Urääää Uräääää Urääää gun down one of your sarges because the commisar didn´t like his look and go in against those marines with 40 attacks at S4.
I would be much more scared of them with Marines....but well when I would pick up marines again those would be Space Wolves again...so I would kick their shiny asses in cc again with cheap and fighty marines.
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With creed a blob of 20 should be able to bag those purifiers in you could even run towards them don´t shoot your lasers run a bit more scream Urääää Uräääää Urääää gun down one of your sarges because the commisar didn´t like his look and go in against those marines with 40 attacks at S4.
Not good enough against Purifiers - they'll just do a nice cleansing flame and half your dudes are flat on their noses before the first blow is struck. Otherwise it's a nice unit, yes. But Purifiers you don't want to engage hand to hand with Guardsmen.
I would be much more scared of them with Marines....but well when I would pick up marines again those would be Space Wolves again...so I would kick their shiny asses in cc again with cheap and fighty marines.
You'd strike simultaneously with the wolves and pretty much rape each other, so that would be fine.
:-D
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Wolves enjoy raping...they are vikings after all.
How do those purifiers work...can they flame in cc too before we get to grips?
Well I guess some units I still have to shoot which is viable with IG. IG can do so many different things....maybe just 10 veterans with three plasmaguns then.
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We'll see how much we can fit in the car, and how vigorously Gneisenau struggles. We'll have to tie him up real good or he might roll around in the trunk and damage some models.
If I can fit it all in I'll bring Skaven, CSM and whatever I have done in the Necrons department till then. That's a big "if" though.
I hope you do manage to corral Gnu!
I'm getting excited already.
Fandir, purifiers have a special psychic power, I think it causes a wound on every model in combat with you, on a 4+
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Wolves enjoy raping...they are vikings after all.
How do those purifiers work...can they flame in cc too before we get to grips?
They have a power called cleansing flame. At the start of cc (either players turn) they can activate it. If they do, every enemy model in the same assault takes a wound on a 4+ before blows are struck, normal AS allowed. Extremely nasty against low save armies depending on numbers.
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I'm reasonably pleased with the bone colour, but not the purple. It looks flat and dull. I might just use hardly any purple.
I'd like to emulate this, although obviously mine wouldn't be as nice.
(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2003073a_Blog251011_6.jpg)
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Have you used a wash? Also, since I am intimately familiar with DE painting at the moment because my weekly painting session buddy is working on his - try highlighting the edges of the armor, that alone looks fantastic on them.
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yup!
but the foundation paint purple just isn't doing it for me.
They are the old crap models, so although edging the armour works, I don't think it will have the same effect as on the nice new models.
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So where are the pictures of your dark eldar? Or have you not finished any yet?
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I havent finished any, I was just doing a bit of painting last night.
This morning I was looking after ted while El had a lie in, so no painting time.
I've finished two! but my camera battery died. and now it's hockey time. pictures later.
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NEVER, EVERY underestimate a 30-50 man Guardsmen blob. Throw in a few commissars, meltas/flamers, and sarges with power weapons, and you have the ultimate close combat unit. I use them all the time, in Apocalypse though, they need a HUGE deployment area, especially spaced out for anti-template.
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Um, I have to disagree with them being the ultimate. A unit of 30 shoota boyz or choppa boyz with a nob and PK will make VERY short work of them. The unit of boyz will do in the neighborhood of 35 - 40 wounds after saves and that doesn't count the shooting on the way in.
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How expensive are Ork boyz points wise?
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Why does everyone have to take everything so literally...Oh wait, this is the internets.
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Larkyn don´t be scared away from this forum the whine is usually less intense...I blame the tense waiting for what will happen to Empire in Fantasy....and well Rufus being a powergaming powergamer who game raped Finlay a couple of games it seems.
Orcs are 6 points I think.....a pop.
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Um, I have to disagree with them being the ultimate. A unit of 30 shoota boyz or choppa boyz with a nob and PK will make VERY short work of them. The unit of boyz will do in the neighborhood of 35 - 40 wounds after saves and that doesn't count the shooting on the way in.
That depends on who gets the charge off, my good man, and if the Guardsmen are under the influence of "For Cadia!" or Straken.
:wink:
If the 30 man blob with a commissar and a couple of Power Swords furious charges that mob it's looking quite different. You're looking at roughly 70 attacks, 35 hit, 18 or so wound. Half the Orcs gone. Remaining Orcs retaliate, 45 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 10-12 Guardsmen dead. The Orks will propably win the protracted grind, but there won't be many left when it's all over.
Sure, if the Orks get the charge that will be one very, very one-sided fight.
:-D
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but taking things literally is where all the fun arguments come from.
After all, you can't take monstrous creatures vs GK.
If you do you die.
:engel:
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If you were my son it would be off to bed without dessert now.
:wink:
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If he were my son I would first marvel at the unlikeliness of it, and then kill him.
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If he was your son, he would have strangled himself at birth.
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If he were my son I would first marvel at the unlikeliness of it, and then kill him.
Doesn't mean anything, you would do that to any of us.
:-D
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If he was your son, he would have strangled himself at birth.
:biggriin:
This is even more fun after hearing the doctor say....
Shot her in the face.....
And what did he say after I said something stupid like....I am allergic to medikits?
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Something about enjoying being in pain.
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Larkyn don´t be scared away from this forum the whine is usually less intense
Oh trust me, I've been on worse forums. 40konline for one. I was banned for disagreeing with the mods/admins in opinionated discussions.
I'm just finding it funny. :mrgreen:
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That depends on who gets the charge off, my good man, and if the Guardsmen are under the influence of "For Cadia!" or Straken.
:wink:
But how much is that at that point? The ork mob is only around 215 points. And I would try like hell to stay around 14 inches away and call a waaggh the turn I needed to deal with them. Add the fact that the Nob will eat Straken for lunch even if the unit falls and I would be okay with that trade off.
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Isn't it upon the IG player to allocate the wounds (still dodgy on the rules), or can the nob target the character directly?
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But how much is that at that point? The ork mob is only around 215 points. And I would try like hell to stay around 14 inches away and call a waaggh the turn I needed to deal with them. Add the fact that the Nob will eat Straken for lunch even if the unit falls and I would be okay with that trade off.
Points costs are not relevant in this, as I didn't say anything about the Guardsmen being the better choice or more points efficient (which they clearly aren't at this job. After all this is the Orks premier discipline). I merely stated that this combat isn't quite so clear-cut depending on who does the charging, that's all (and by the way, Straken wouldn't be in the fight propably, as he's having a nice command squad like any other IG company officer. He has a "furious charge bubble" that affect units in a certain radius around him).
@ Gneisenau: Independent Characters can be attacked directly. A normal Commissar for example isn't, neither is a Nob or a Sergeant.
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Straken is an IC, so the nob can pick him out if they are in B2B. Nob is a sergeant so cannot be picked out.
Unless Straken is a unit upgrade and not an IC. I can't recall.
But orks are one of the few armies that really couldn't care less about what special characters you have (other than that BA Morpheus). The nob gets 4 S9 attacks with no AS and will get 3 after the charge. He will eat up most characters in short order.
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Straken is an IC, so the nob can pick him out if they are in B2B. Nob is a sergeant so cannot be picked out.
Unless Straken is a unit upgrade and not an IC. I can't recall.
Straken is a regular IG company officer with command squad and all, not an IC. And he has very mean stats for a Guardsman. S6 and hits like a monstrous creature for one. Ahh, the benefits of cybernetics!
But orks are one of the few armies that really couldn't care less about what special characters you have (other than that BA Morpheus). The nob gets 4 S9 attacks with no AS and will get 3 after the charge. He will eat up most characters in short order.
I know, but all of this is not very relevant to the point I was making.
:wink:
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Ah thanks, now I see what I missed. That's a serious drawback of IC then.
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I know, but all of this is not very relevant to the point I was making.
:wink:
I was mostly trying to clarify for Gnu.
But any opportunity I have to correct the incorrect assumption that IG are good at CC I enjoy. I love facing CC IG because it means I am not staring at pile of battle cannons. Heaps of IG models on the board is like dessert for orks. CHimera veterans are a bit of an issue some times.
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Ah thanks, now I see what I missed. That's a serious drawback of IC then.
Well the upside is they can join whatever squad they damn well want, opening up a lot of tactical possibilities. And some simply don't care much if you get into base contact or not, because most powerfists don't have 30 ablative wounds around them and some of those souped up squads ICs reqularly join are remarkably good at going through enemy units like a swarm of starved Piranhas.
But any opportunity I have to correct the incorrect assumption that IG are good at CC I enjoy. I love facing CC IG because it means I am not staring at pile of battle cannons. Heaps of IG models on the board is like dessert for orks. CHimera veterans are a bit of an issue some times.
what gave you the idea using a squad or two of those means the rest of the army stays at home? I want to use some regular guard squads anyway to get some cheapish extra heavy weapons and as ablative bodies/objective holders, so investing a couple more points to turn them into a nasty cc surprise for many armies out there isn't exactly a terrible idea.
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No, but there are some who think taking piles will be a good strategy. 30 man units with upgrades get pricey fast. Anytime people leave things as squishy as IG troopers out of transports for orks we rejoice. Two units would barely be a blip on the radar since orks do the throw heaps of models at problems thing quite well.
But I will say I like the inclusion of something different since around these parts it is squadrons of vendetta with veterans, chimera with veterans, etc. I don't recall the last time I saw real IG hit the table. It is like the entire army went elite or something!
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Don't blame me, I just got started!
I would love to do an infantry-heavy army as well. But that's not for this thread, which I feel got a bit highjacked.
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Which is why I was trying to help :D
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No, but there are some who think taking piles will be a good strategy. 30 man units with upgrades get pricey fast.
Basing your whole army on them isn't a good idea, I agree (although it would be hilarious!). But pricey, I don't know. 245 points gets me a unit with 30 bodies, stubborn with reroll, 3 autocannons and 70 S4 attacks on the charge, 16 of those power weapons. That isn't a terrible deal...
:wink:
You have to invest 90 points into Creed over a normal command squad, but he's good and useful anyway. Plus 35 for a commissar and 10 per PW you care to throw in there, although any beyond the commissars is a luxury. That's not crippling by any standard and leaves plenty of room for Chimera vets, vendettas, Russes, Manticores... all the good stuff.
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I think the IG blob could do at least decent against the orcs still move within 20 inches and blast away with first rank fire...second rank fire.
100 shots...are 100 shots.
If they get close enough 12 inches so 18 inches around 150 shots. 75 hits 25 wounds. ....zap zap zap....flashlights. And we don´t want to make 40k to internet 40k it is still about synergy of the whole army and tactics....if the IG guy places some 10 guardsmen that are no blob in front of the blob the orcs have to clear those out before they can charge in...no?
Also Straken gives everyone around himself counterstrike so even in the defensive those guys should hurt he orcs at least a little in the worst possible tactical situation they could be in. Won´t they strike simultanely?
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Well, long story short: Orks are better at close combat, no question at all. But IG can still be quite good at it if you throw a couple of points that way to make it happen.
There, done!
:::cheers:::
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Well I think straken is odd though Creed is much more likely. so For Cadia!!!
Hurääää! Hurrääääää!
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I like how Phillyt is continuing my argument for me, from the other side.
feel free to continue derailing, btw.
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Sorry man, I'll stop right away!
:::cheers:::
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don't stop. I would have kept it all into one giant 40k thread if it was up to me.
DE pics! in horrible light!
non flash
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/nonflash.jpg)
flash
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/flashpair.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/flashclose.jpg)
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Can't see the first pic, but that looks like a good scheme for an army.
C&C?
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I don't really like the purple, or the red eyes. I think I want to try a more vivid purple. Even a pinkish purple. And then highlight it.
but I like the bone quite a lot.
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I like the bleached bone parts (incidentally, that's what I'm planning for my Necrons as well...), but I don't think the blue meshes very well with that. A warmer color would be better I think. Red perhaps?
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dheneb stone, gryponne sepia all over, then dheneb stone, then bleached bone highlights. simple yet effective.
It's purple, not blue. The pictures just messed it up a bit. but I agree that it doesnt sit well. Although I maybe don't want to use red... We'll see!
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I think the IG blob could do at least decent against the orcs still move within 20 inches and blast away with first rank fire...second rank fire.
That is true, but thats still only going to result in 10 or so wounds. Shoota boyz will pull close to that and still get to assaut the turn they do it. 60 shots, 20 hits, 13, only 9 saves. They then assault for 90 attacks. Either way, you are looking at significantly more support and needing to micromanage through orders to see similar results.
If they get close enough 12 inches so 18 inches around 150 shots. 75 hits 25 wounds. ....zap zap zap....flashlights. And we don´t want to make 40k to internet 40k it is still about synergy of the whole army and tactics....if the IG guy places some 10 guardsmen that are no blob in front of the blob the orcs have to clear those out before they can charge in...no?
Sure, I would love for a unit to be inbetween because then I get a 4+ cover save, which is better than the 5+ the KFF already grants the unit. Not to mention, there is no way if that unit is within 12 to rapid fire, the ork unit won't be able to move, run, then assault the larger unit while also charging the ten models that were trying to block for the large one. A giant blob of orks can get a few models in there, then pile in behind the models in contact.
Also Straken gives everyone around himself counterstrike so even in the defensive those guys should hurt he orcs at least a little in the worst possible tactical situation they could be in. Won´t they strike simultanely?
I would probably shoot/tankshock my way to straken if he was in a position to help too many units with his bubble. Shocking your way in and dropping the unit out to then assault works pretty well. I actually only use units of 20 orks because everyone is in battle wagons. Shooting on the way in or being assaulted is only going to happen after the fact.
Regardless, I have piles of headaches with IG. None of them have ever been from the assault phase.
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Hmmm nice dark eldar....you could try black with that bone.
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Me likey the scheme. Nice painting, should be a cool looking army!
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Shame about the models though, eh?
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they look good finlay. i like both the purple and the red eyes.
the models look like skeletors henchmen in 'masters of the universe'
btw: the guy with the upright gun has a purple thumb
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the models look like skeletors henchmen in 'masters of the universe'
Spiky suppositories. That's what they are.
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Maybe use reddish purple instead of blueish. Like 'fire dragon crimson,' if they still make that. Edit: no, they don't still make it.
The bone color looks nice.
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Shame about the models though, eh?
Indeed. although it is really only the heads and shoulder pads I think.
I reckon the new models will look even better with the simple bone scheme.
Thanks adam. I wasn't being overly careful with these.
I definitely want to try a more reddish purple. I'll have a look online.
Maybe I could highlight my purple in red... not sure.
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When I saw the photos, went tot he GW site to see if I could figure out why they had blades on their helmets. Couldn't find the figures, but thats because they are older and I hadn't been seeing DE on the table tops until the new rules had just come out, and folks were using the newer figures.
By the way, kind of like the paint scheme, except the purple looks flat. Maybe use the GW's purple wash?
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When I saw the photos, went tot he GW site to see if I could figure out why they had blades on their helmets. Couldn't find the figures, but thats because they are older and I hadn't been seeing DE on the table tops until the new rules had just come out, and folks were using the newer figures.
By the way, kind of like the paint scheme, except the purple looks flat. Maybe use the GW's purple wash?
It does have GWs purple wash all over it. Even on the metal, which IRL looks really purple-y but in the pictures you can't see at all.
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CCS, astropath, power sword, 2 plasma rifles, missile launcher 135 pts
Platoon, al rahem, 4 meltas 140 pts
squad, flamer, ac, power weapon 75
squad, flamer, ac, power weapon 75
commissar, power weapon, 45
Veteran squad, Harker, 3 meltas, HB, Chimera. 230 pts
Veteran squad, 3 plasma rifles, chimera. 170 pts
Hellhound 130 pts
scout sentinel 40 pts
LRD 165 pts
LRBT 150 pts
Basilisk 125 pts
20 spare points. I don't have enough meltas!
There probably isnt enough on the board to start with.
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CCS, astropath, power sword, 2 plasma rifles, missile launcher 135 pts
Platoon, al rahem, 4 meltas 140 pts
squad, flamer, ac, power weapon 75
squad, flamer, ac, power weapon 75
commissar, power weapon, 45
Veteran squad, Harker, 3 meltas, HB, Chimera. 230 pts
Veteran squad, 3 plasma rifles, chimera. 170 pts
Hellhound 130 pts
Any idea what kind of armies you are going to be playing?
scout sentinel 40 pts
LRD 165 pts
LRBT 150 pts
Basilisk 125 pts
20 spare points. I don't have enough meltas!
There probably isnt enough on the board to start with.
[/quote]
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CCS, astropath, power sword, missile launcher 105 pts
Platoon, al rahem, 3 meltas 130 pts
squad, flamer, power weapon 65
squad, flamer, power weapon 65
commissar, power weapon, 45
PCS , flamer. 35
squad, ac 60
squad, ac 60
Veteran squad, 3 meltas, Chimera. 155 pts
Veteran squad, 3 plasma rifles, chimera. 170 pts
Hellhound 130 pts
scout sentinel, AC 40 pts
LRD 165 pts
LRBT 150 pts
Basilisk 125 pts
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Not bad. Why the p ower swords?
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To chop up space marines.
The company commander HAS to have one.
He's actually pretty good at killing space marines. Shame he always dies though.
I like the 2nd list a lot more.
I think it needs to be either Harker, or al Rahem, and I don't have enough chimeras for Harker and 2 other vet squads.
I would also prefer not having to waste points on a useless PCS, but there you go.
I want some ratlings! But the list is already pretty trim (2 special weapons slots on CCS, 3 special weapon/ 1 special weapon+1 heavy weapon on CCS)
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I wouldn't both with it for the other units unless you have models with them and really like them. S3 doesn't cut it against SM.
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You could save some points by not using one of your trio of horrible artillery tanks!
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I was thinking about dropping either the basilisk or the hellhound, but I want the hellhound because it's awesome,
and I'll need the basilisk when my scout sentinel and Al Rahem come on the board behind you and kill all your transports ;)
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I have never liked hellhounds. Only against tyranids is it that useful really.
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You're more likely to kill my transports with the basilisk!
Having three giant templates of 'power armor is useless' makes me think there's no point using any models with power armor.
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I don't agree with that assessment. It just means that you will need to make sure you have cover. Most things will give you a 4+ cover save. I deal with that all the time since every army I play against other than Tyranids has access to templates (defilers, IG tanks).
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You're more likely to kill my transports with the basilisk!
Having three giant templates of 'power armor is useless' makes me think there's no point using any models with power armor.
Yeh, all those game they have won me must really be playing on your mind. :engel:
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I think I'm just unreasonable.
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I think I'm just unreasonable.
Uhuh. Tell us more.
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I think I'm just unreasonable.
I think you expect the worst case scenario- so my basilisk and leman russ kill a transort each for the first 2 turns, along with platoon and CCS killing one a turn each, and then the templates splat your army.
Where as with only 1/3 chance to hit, and then a 1/2 cover save, most of your army is normally fairly safe.
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I think you expect the worst case scenario
We both do that. Clash of the pessimists!
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There will be empty glasses EVERYWHERE.....well and empty bottles of beer.
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definitely the second.
although the price of a pint there is quite high.
Someone on the dark eldar forum said you should never play wargames with alcohol.
!!!
!!!!
!
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I think they meant to say never play wargames without alcohol.
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BTW, are we likely to be playing 2000 point games at the EB?
although actually who has 40k armies to take- me, aldaris, and rufus?
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And Fandir.
But as I sold/traded my Space Wolves I only have Imperial Guard.
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I don't want to play at 2000 points. Maybe 1750.
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I'd say that's up to the players, as always at the EB. I shall try to bring 2000 points for my 40K armies.
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but If I bring 1500 and then everyone else has 2000 it's annoying to make people write new lists all the time.
I might aim for 1750.
for my DE that is simply some incubi in a venom.
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It's not easy to bring a fantasy and a 40K army! Neither can be too big.
And no way would I be able to bring my storm raven.
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Indeed. and I think the DE transports are pretty fragile to transport.
I might need to buy a giant case for everything.
If Midaski's son is going, there wont be enough room in the car for everyone, which will force us to take two cars. One from Midaski, and one from Adam? = possibly more room in the cars? or possibly making it easier for other people in the uk to come?
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I'll have a 40K army by then. 7th Company Revilers, ready for their arses to be kicked because their fluff-tastic army build. And my mercenaries more competitive, or able to be used as Empire. Hopefully the mounted men at arms will come out before then to bulk them out. The marines take so long to complete each, that i'd love to smash out a unit of fantasy in comparatively no time by dipping them.
Can also drive. Just bring a bigger suitcase with your models in and your clothes on the train to me.
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Let's be even more positive - maybe we can encourage more of a Northern contingent and a vehicle heading south from Yorkshire ......... which could pick rufus up ...........
..... and then a smart** car or something from the west .............
Is it really that impossible to imagine some of the regulars finally getting off their backsides and making an effort :closed-eyes:
** Ok maybe that choice was a bit ridiculous. How about two welsh ponies pulling a cart.
:engel:
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Oh you. :engel:
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I'll have a 40K army by then. 7th Company Revilers, ready for their arses to be kicked because their fluff-tastic army build. And my mercenaries more competitive, or able to be used as Empire. Hopefully the mounted men at arms will come out before then to bulk them out. The marines take so long to complete each, that i'd love to smash out a unit of fantasy in comparatively no time by dipping them.
Can also drive. Just bring a bigger suitcase with your models in and your clothes on the train to me.
sounds excellent.
Get some more pics of the revilers and your terrain up!
I think just having two cars go should encourage a few more! and Mids, you can badger some people in Nottingham.
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CCS, astropath, power sword, plasma rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher 135 pts
5 ratlings, 50 pts
Platoon, al rahem, 3 meltas 130 pts
squad, flamer, power weapon 65
squad, flamer, power weapon 65
commissar, power weapon, 45
PCS , ac, flamer, flamer 50
squad, ac 60
squad, ac 60
HWT, 2 lascannons, 1 missile launcher 100
Veteran squad, 3 meltas, Chimera. 155 pts
Veteran squad, 3 plasma rifles, chimera. 170 pts
Hellhound 130 pts
scout sentinel, AC 40 pts
5 rough riders, 55 pts
LRD 165 pts
LRBT 150 pts
Basilisk 125 pts
1750 points! I don't have enough lascannons to have a lascannon HWT, hence the missile launcher.
This NEEDS to go near the PCS for the twinlinking to shoot horribledreadnoughtman and other tanks.
I'm interested to see how thw HWT goes. I have been massively underwhelmed by my autocannons so far, so I think you maybe need more concentration of them/other AT weapons
Al rahem, the ratlings, the scout sentinel and the hellhound give me some good mobility, and the rough riders a small CC punch to finish off small units without halberds, or henchmen units.
Could be good to charge deepstriking units, as I find I always end up having to pour so much fire into them that it wastes a massive proportion of my shooting phase.
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Looks nice. I'm not a big fan of HWTs, but try them out by all means!
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I often find heavy weapon teams to be a big pain in my ass. They can nestle in amongst infantry units for cover saves and blast away at vehicles. But that might be the orc player in me getting autocannoned.
I rarely loss to HWT heavy armies, but when they are done right they can be trouble.
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Looks nice. I'm not a big fan of HWTs, but try them out by all means!
That's why I want to try them. No one uses them.
I guess template insta death drawback, and maybe easier to hide from LOS.
I just find I want a higher concentration of fire, that can all be twinlinked with one order.
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Their main problem is that instant death to S6 thing without ablative wounds, but they are an adequate way to cram in a couple more heavy weapons (if you don't actually own a Vendetta, which you would get for 30 more points). They certainly aren't bad!
I'd also like this opportunity to remind people of Mortar squads, which are all kinds of fantabulous for their points and don't need LOS.
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That's annoying though! "not as good as a vendetta". well, not many things are. Sigh. I dont really want any of them.
I hope they dont all get incinerator'd anyway.
I Don't have any mortars.
I asked my family for warhammer for christmas, thinking I would then tell them what to buy. But my mum is visiting this weekend to see Ted, and brought all our christmas presents down. Which means probably no warhammer :( or even worse, randomly bought warhammer!
Also, me and Rufus are going to try and play two games. One normal, and another a scenario to finish the story arc of inquisition vs my Ig with Tau help.
I start in the middle of the table in a fortified position. Rufus attacks me. If anything dies of Rufus, it comes on next turn on any of the board edges (this maybe needs to be only troops? or certainly not interceptors)
At the end of turn 4, roll a die. 6 the game ends. turn 5, 4 ends it. turn 6, is last turn
If I have anything left at the end, I win as the Tau come and scare the inqusition away. If not, the inquisition dig in and kill the Tau as they arrive.
The idea is to make it sort of unfair so no one gets too annoyed, and more narrative and desperate. and if I roll a 6 to end the game on turn 4 I'll probably win!
What do people think to that? I don't want to make it insanely stacked in either sides favour, but it is hard to balance it without trying it first.
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Randomly bought is fine, you can exchange it so long as it's still shrinkwrapped.
I just did that with some stuff I had lying around today!
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Scenarios like that are always great fun. Go for it! If you win you can brag endlessly about it, and if you lose, the deck was stacked against you and yet you fought heroically. Either way, you win and will have had a memorable game!
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How much cover should Rufus get? Because in reality you would burn down all trees etc around your fort so you could shoot people more easily.
Should I also be able to use some of those defensive autocannon thingys?
does that make it too hard for him?
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He's using GK, nothing is too hard.
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTk5NOz1hctxm9QyHl5t9un4geIOe_Cg5338ByoYcFftWU1S1p6)
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Damn right it is.
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How much cover should Rufus get? Because in reality you would burn down all trees etc around your fort so you could shoot people more easily.
Should I also be able to use some of those defensive autocannon thingys?
does that make it too hard for him?
!
Yes it makes it too hard!
I should get the preliminary bombardment rule from planetstrike!
Also, I don't think it's even possible for me to wipe out your entire army (even if things went perfectly, I couldn't do it in six turns), so I don't think the victory condition is practical.
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I agree. Dwhitey, keep in mind it isn't really a gk army anyway so you can't base the fairness on that.
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I don't think I even have any of the things people complain about.
Half the stuff in that guard army removes power armor saves anyway!
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But taking those items limits what else can be taken. It is liberating to fight things like IG. So nice to have flamers and small arms able to kill things!
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How much cover should Rufus get? Because in reality you would burn down all trees etc around your fort so you could shoot people more easily.
Should I also be able to use some of those defensive autocannon thingys?
does that make it too hard for him?
(even if things went perfectly, I couldn't do it in six turns),
But if you know your units respawn, you can be a lot more reckless and aggressive?
Fair point though.
I don't think I even have any of the things people complain about.
Purifier spam, and the autocannon dreads seem to be the main ones.
I think you take pretty friendly GK lists.
Then again, I don't use hydras, vendettas, or manticores.
But who wants to play boring and the same overpowered lists anyway!
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I don't really find any army over powered.
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ok "more powerful" not "overpowered"
hydra, manticore and vendetta spam is certainly more powerful than what I am taking now.
battlewagon spam, 3 monoliths, etc is more powerful than other orc/necron builds etc.
Eldrad, wave serpents and dire avengers are more powerful than wraithguard and fire dragons.
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I meant that I don't think I could destroy your entire giant army in that time even if I played as aggressively as possible. Not every single model!
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Orc war wagon is no better or worse than dredd mob/green horde or massive shooting ork builds though. I do think it looks a lot cooler though!
There are only like 2 over powered builds, and those are prone to bad matchups quite often.
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Hope you take some pictures of the scenario being planned for playing!
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I intend to do a photo-battle report on our games. It will be as awesome as always!
I'm looking forward to flying my stormvendettaraven around the board.
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We didn't do the scenario, plyed 2 games.
One dawn of war, home and away. I conceded after turn 3, would have been wiped after turn 4.
Made mistake here because I should have taken turn one and the choice of deployment, but thought id try to get the last turn to contest objectives at the end.
Then a kill pt oint, pitched battle. I had lost after rufus` 2nd turn, when i had had one turn ! Rubbish. Rufus flukey luck, 5 cover saves for penetrated storm raven. But probably didn't matter.
But had more fun than last time though.
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Rufus' stormraven makes 5 4+ cover saves from penetrating hits in this shooting phase. (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000862.jpg)
Here are two pictures of our armies
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000857.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000856.jpg)
I don't know why I hardly took any photos. Rufus took more. Hopefully he'll do a little report
Other highlights in the game: Al Rahem's 4 melta command squad, twinlinked to shoot the venerable drednought, got 1 hit!
A Jokaero killed a rough rider.
There were 4 or 5 really beautiful tables set out, but apocalypse size. One giant one with a partially ruined imperial stronghold. Looked amazing. and a cool Tau settlement, a cool tomb world, a nice mordheim crossroad village. I think Rufus took photos as well.
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Those two armies look fantastic on the table, well done!
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I'm ashamed of the one unpainted lascannon I used!
Also, I managed to blow up the stormraven with the CCS twinlinked missile launcher. Which was cool.
"rpg, rpg!"
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I'm ashamed of the one unpainted lascannon I used!
Also, I managed to blow up the stormraven with the CCS twinlinked missile launcher. Which was cool.
"rpg, rpg!"
That's still better than your Dark Elf "Aegis Defence Line" Bolt thrower. :engel:
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Nice pictures! I think I need a haircut.
My report is on the way.
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I'm ashamed of the one unpainted lascannon I used!
Also, I managed to blow up the stormraven with the CCS twinlinked missile launcher. Which was cool.
"rpg, rpg!"
That's still better than your Dark Elf "Aegis Defence Line" Bolt thrower. :engel:
Wait, isn't that from when you two came to Bristol? :icon_lol:
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Yup. I've still got Finlay's Dark Elf Assassin in my room. :wink:
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I'm ashamed of the one unpainted lascannon I used!
Also, I managed to blow up the stormraven with the CCS twinlinked missile launcher. Which was cool.
"rpg, rpg!"
That's still better than your Dark Elf "Aegis Defence Line" Bolt thrower. :engel:
Yes, but to be fair I did have a bolththrower, and just forgot it.
Really? why did we decide not to post it? I quite like that model. Not that I ever use my DE. Did I steal something of yours?
Haircuts are horrible.
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You got my assassin remember? We both then forgot about it after saying it didn't matter.
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I sent you the wrong ones. You said you'd swap them over next time you saw each other.
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With the stormraven, something has occurred to me: if you can fully surround the base so that I can't place my models within 2" of it, and you then destroy the stormraven, the units inside are also destroyed! I don't think you were ever in a position to surround it when it still had models inside, but it's worth keeping in mind. Though possibly it would be rather a risk, since if you failed to destroy the stormraven you would then have a lot of infantry standing around asking to be killed.
The ratlings were definitely a waste of time. Sniper rifles just don't do enough. Maybe if they actually do allow you to assign wounds to certain models in a unit in 6th, as the rumors say, they will be worthwhile.
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Certainly not. But that was a pile of melta weapons you jammed into your list and Fin wasn't exactly rocking a power list by any stretch.
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Oh dear, was it really as few turns as that in both games? That's a bit disappointing!
Is it normal for games to be decided so early?
Defnitely not. Almost never in fact. I don't even remember the last game we didn't play out a game!
EDIT: well, it does happen, but not anymore than in Fantasy, and not any earlier. Someone conceding in turn 5 can happen (but that is pretty much "playing it out"), someone conceding in turn 2...? As I said, almost never.
With the stormraven, something has occurred to me: if you can fully surround the base so that I can't place my models within 2" of it, and you then destroy the stormraven, the units inside are also destroyed! I don't think you were ever in a position to surround it when it still had models inside, but it's worth keeping in mind. Though possibly it would be rather a risk, since if you failed to destroy the stormraven you would then have a lot of infantry standing around asking to be killed.
A quite common and quite useful tactic if you are in a position to pull it off!
The ratlings were definitely a waste of time. Sniper rifles just don't do enough. Maybe if they actually do allow you to assign wounds to certain models in a unit in 6th, as the rumors say, they will be worthwhile.
Agreed.
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Maybe game one could have ended up as a draw, though I think it would have been unlikely.
This. Since 40K is 66% of the time objective based, you can often eke out a draw or even a win despite having had your ass kicked all game long.
That's one of the things I like so much about this game, compared to Fantasy. it's very often tense until the final turn.
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But with two objectives, one of which is firmly held by me and that he can't reach, and the other somewhat held by him that I can at the very least contest?
Outflankers and deepstrikers can be extremely useful for claiming or contesting objectives. Especially if you have an Astropath so you can reroll the board edge you enter on. And if both are contested it's a draw.
Example from last weekend: I only managed to reach Fandir's objective in the final turn because he'd placed it on the top of a three story ruin. If I had rolled badly for difficult terrain I propably wouldn't have made it. Similarly, he tried to break out of my cordon with a Chimera full of Vets to get mine, which could have worked as well. We were already laughing about the upcoming car chase with the Vets being pursued by Chosen and both shooting meltas at each other from the windows of their tanks.
It unfortunately ate a powerfist before it could break free.
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Remember we stopped game one so we could fit in game 2, and stopped game 2 so I wouldnt get in trouble for abandoning my wife with her mother in law all day!
And we didn't stop game 2 until we had both had 3 turns, I think. It was just clear that you had won after you had had 2 turns.
And I think we maybe played 4 turns in game 1? not sure.
But with two objectives, one of which is firmly held by me and that he can't reach, and the other somewhat held by him that I can at the very least contest?
I actually think my army is better at claiming objectives, since it is more mobile.
Remember Al Rahem was 1 inch away from charging the people on your objective. Perhaps if he had been in range I might have been able to dig in for a draw.
Your army is definitely better at claiming objectives, you are all mechanised where as I have only 2 mobile-ish units which could claim.
That's another reason why everyone takes vends- let alone they are the best lascannon platform but add mobility.
You always mash up my tanks with the dreadnought and thunderhammers, I remember talking before the game about using/sacrificing squads to tie up your cc units, and leave them out and exposed for more shooting/stagger when they reach my line.
But in the games I totally forgot to do this. I think this is probably quite a big reason why I always lose.
As well as the fact that my list was a little bit soft, you are generally a better wargamer than me, and then add in luck too. (although apart from me failing to hurt the vnerable dreadnought with alrahems meltas, and the stormraven making 5 4+ saves I didnt think you had that good luck)
Maybe game one could have ended up as a draw, though I think it would have been unlikely.
This. Since 40K is 66% of the time objective based, you can often eke out a draw or even a win despite having had your ass kicked all game long.
That's one of the things I like so much about this game, compared to Fantasy. it's very often tense until the final turn.
Thats why I didnt really want to play the killpoint mission (we had a discussion about nit, and chose to do it because we hadn't played one), it just makes it "slaughter people" where as with objectives I at least have a chance to contest something, and pretend the game was closer than it was!
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hypothetically, what are good HQs for a blood angels army built around jetpack assault marines, and a stormraven full of terminators and a dreadnought
If you had a terminator squad in a storm raven, with an IC in terminator armour, could you drop them out then charge two targets, hypothetically?
I feel like having a character with the termies is overkill, and putting one with jetpack marines is too exposed.
What about a jetpack librarian to give them a 5+ cover save?
Although I like the idea and fluff of JEtpack chaplains anyway, and the FNP priests.
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hypothetically, what are good HQs for a blood angels army built around jetpack assault marines, and a stormraven full of terminators and a dreadnought
You could give Sanguinor a go (although he really only makes sense in a list with Sanguinary Guard). Otherwise, I'd propably take either a Chaplain or a Librarian.
If you had a terminator squad in a storm raven, with an IC in terminator armour, could you drop them out then charge two targets, hypothetically?
Hypothetically, if the opportunity was good and I stood a good chance of taking those two targets, sure? Why wouldn't I?
I feel like having a character with the termies is overkill, and putting one with jetpack marines is too exposed.
What about a jetpack librarian to give them a 5+ cover save?
Although I like the idea and fluff of JEtpack chaplains anyway, and the FNP priests.
I don't know about overkill, there's some tough stuff out there. Overkill is good!
:-D
On the other hand, a plain Chaplain or Librarian with a Jump Pack - why not? Toss in some Sanguinary Priests for FNP like you said and that's pretty tough.
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I dont really want to take SCs, when the army is pretty varied anyway.
I don't want to take sanguinary guard because they are really blood angelsy, where as I want to use a successor chapter. I don't really like any of the special chapters fluff, but I think BA offer a pretty fun army to use.
Cool. I was more asking from a rules PoV than tactics. That means You could kill 3 tanks in a parking lot with the squad, IC, and dreadnought.
Would a librarian and a chaplain be too much for 1750?
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Cool. I was more asking from a rules PoV than tactics. That means You could kill 3 tanks in a parking lot with the squad, IC, and dreadnought.
Yes. Read up on the rules on charging movement (many people get it wrong). As long as you stick to those you can charge as many targets as you like.
Would a librarian and a chaplain be too much for 1750?
Propably. BA are expensive enough as it is, I would advise keeping the HQ points down so you'll actually have an army (especially if you want Sanguinary Priests too).
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You could give Sanguinor a go
He can't join units!
Besides, what the hell is he? A demon?
Though at least he isn't a cartoon vampire LARPer, with toughness 6 for no reason.
If you had a terminator squad in a storm raven, with an IC in terminator armour, could you drop them out then charge two targets, hypothetically?
All those points in one place though! I don't like it. It would cost quite a lot more than my inquisitor/death cult/dreadnought combination, and I think I was lucky they didn't get killed before they got to do anything.
I don't want to take sanguinary guard because they are really blood angelsy
...and they look silly.
Don't sanguinary priests get targeted and killed in close combat? They are independent characters, so you can direct attacks on them.
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Can you take pure terminator armies? That is possibly the only way I'd play Space Marines.
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Deathwing is one option (Dark Angels variant list), Greyknights is another. I think Space Wolves can do it too, if they take Logan Grimnar.
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Is the entire army like 15 guys?
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I don't see the point of terminators. Well, grey knight ones anyway.
But yes, you can make a very small army.
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Everytime I think I want a BA army, I write a list and realise I don't.
I guess the lack of fortitude makes the BA storm raven a fair bit more risky.
Still, I think it only needs one turbo boosted move to get what it's carrying to where they need to be.
Besides, I don't know what else to put in it apart from terminators.
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A simple unit of Assault Marines works just as well. Or a unit of Death Company, who are among the choices I love most in the Codex (okay, Rage sucks a bit, so does not being able to take objectives. So what? The rest of their rules are awesome!)
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You can buy extra armor for the stormraven, which would at least let it keep moving.
Hammer/shield terminators are supposed to be good (ward save!), so putting a squad of them on board might be worth it. I doubt you'd need a character too, so it wouldn't be too many points.
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Hammer and shield terminators are quite ways beyond good. They are among the greatest models in the game.
And fairly cheap too.
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No one knows anything about De do they?
cluster caltrop upgrade for reavers.
adds d3 and 2 strength to their flyby blading attack, but 20 points.
I have a feeling it's a bit too expensive?
If you could attack vehicles side armour, with strn 6, that would definitely be worth it! But alas.
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No one knows anything about De do they?
No!
I don't think it sounds that good though.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000897.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000898.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000899.jpg)
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You look more excited about it's arrival than your son's arrival.
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I love those pics! And I have to agree with Minty!
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Even the woman on the television is shocked by your expression in the second photo.
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In the last picture, his contentment is akin to a cat being fed cream.
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Amazing.
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Happy christmas to me, happy christmas to me, happy christmas to meeeeee.
time to bust out the sprue clippers and glue.
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Have fun! It looks like you do anyway.
:::cheers:::
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Finlay ... you are so cracking me up. :icon_lol: :::cheers:::
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You look more excited about it's arrival than your son's arrival.
I think it's because there will be a louder reaction ............. what you might call the Big Bang Theory .................... :engel:
Midaski trying to show off how he recognises the TV programme
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I don't like my DE!
Anyway, ignoring the sloppy paint job and poor pictures, which do you prefer, the one with the all purple shoulderpads and upper arms, or the one with the purple highlighted legs, arms and shoulderpads.
Or neither! help me decide my colour scheme please.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000917.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000916.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000915.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000908.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000903.jpg)
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Hmmm, I'm actually not sure.
Maybe the purple shoulderpads one. I don't think I like the stripey effect on the other one.
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More purple is good ...and they look great. Much better than the same boring ones every Dark Eldar player makes.
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I like the one with the all purple shoulder pads.
However, perhaps you could do different squads with different schemes.
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The helmets look great on both of them, by the way!
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I like both. Dark Eldar aren't an army with uniforms.
Do both types, or try a few other variations of the purple armour plates and stripes. Mix them up in the squads, but use a squad marking on the helmets or colour on cloth areas to identify squad members.
They should be the opposite of the codex marines who are strict to a system.
Mix it up a little.
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The helmets look great on both of them, by the way!
I agree! :::cheers:::
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Hmm.
I don't really want to do both as it takes a lot longer when you start doing stuff like this.
Also I think I want to keep the cloths purple, adding more colours might make them a bit busy.
Helmet squad marking I could do, although not sure what I'd do.
what about Purple helmets and shoulderpads?
I'm also not pleased at all with my tin/copper painting. Harumph.
thanks guys. There is way too much of the wash on the bottom picture, left hand side guy.
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Hmm.
I don't really want to do both as it takes a lot longer when you start doing stuff like this. Also I think I want to keep the cloths purple, adding more colours might make them a bit busy.
Nah, it doesn't take that much longer. If you have a unit of 10 guys, do 2 one way, then paint two the next, and so on.
As for being busy ... have you seen 023's Marienburg army? It looks awesome!
However, I am for leaving the cloth and armor plates being just purple.
Helmet squad marking I could do, although not sure what I'd do.
What about Purple helmets and shoulderpads?
Sure, do some purple helmets if you're going to mix things up a bit. Otherwise, those helmets are cool as is!
I'm also not pleased at all with my tin/copper painting. Harumph.
thanks guys. There is way too much of the wash on the bottom picture, left hand side guy.
Think you're being too picky, but understand that, most artists are with their own work. They look fine as is.
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I'd paint 5 at a time, but yes do one lot one way and the next the other.
Your right about the cloths and other colour making it look busy. Helmet badges are best. A few purple helmets are a good idea for squad leaders but the bone, skull look is good for the majority. Don't make them look like other DE.
The brass looks good to me as well. Did you paint it over a bolt gun metal base or tin bits? That is best for a strong colour.
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The whole gun is tin bitz, and then part of it is boltgun metal, and part is dwarf bronze.
I also did the metal shoulder spikes and knee pads, firstly tin bitz and then highloghted dwarf bronze, but I didn't like it, so I tried paint dwarf bronze then messy highlight/drybrush with tin bitz which I think worked better.
now to figure out some helmet badges, easy enough for me to do!
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now to figure out some helmet badges, easy enough for me to do!
The kabal symbols in the book all look difficult! And there's not a huge amount of free space on those helmets.
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And my freehand is shocking
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But you did that awesome orc banner!
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Never seen the kabal markings, but I'd go for curls and swirls. :::cheers:::
(GP ... that could take time.)
One step at a time, no need to do them all at once.
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But you did that awesome orc banner!
ouch!
:icon_lol:
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now to figure out some helmet badges, easy enough for me to do!
The kabal symbols in the book all look difficult! And there's not a huge amount of free space on those helmets.
is there a page with the kabal symbols on?
Or are you just looking at all the one on the banners?
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I think I was looking at page 93, just after the army list. 'Symbols of the great kabals.'
And I liked that orc banner! It was funny.
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120- Archon w/ Agoniser, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs,
173- 4 trueborn with 4 blasters, venom with extra SC,
218- 9 wyches w/ haywires, Shardnet, Hecatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
240- 10 wyches w/ haywires, 2 guantlets, Hecatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
185- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
125- 5 warriors, blaster, venom, extra splinter cannon
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
37 points spare. A really annoying number! I'll just end up spending this on nightshield and shockprow... pointless?
If I take out a trueborn with blaster, I have 60 points spare. then if I shave another 18 points, I could add another 3 reavers with heatlance....
drop wych unit size? drop wych weapons?
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With no knowledge at all about Dark Eldar I liked the models of their dreadlords court are they not useful?
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Not really, also they are resin (yuck) and expensive (aieeeee!)
They make you take at least 1 of each type, when you probably don't want to.
I quite like the idea of an Archon with loads of sllyth (toughness 5, 2 wounds, FNP. yes please.) though!
the Lhamaean is pretty useless.
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Well I like characterfull bodyguard units hence I like the IG command groups...and even use options that don´t make that much sense MEDIC!
I guess nobody would mind if you use other models ...like the heroquest Fimir as the Sllyth.
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It's nearly £50 for a minimum-sized archons' court, I think! Possibly the most expensive non-vehicle unit in 40K? Or maybe not, who knows. I like the snakeman model though. Or would if it was metal.
I see what you mean about it being hard to spend those last 37 points.
If I take out a trueborn with blaster, I have 60 points spare. then if I shave another 18 points, I could add another 3 reavers with heatlance....
I think you should do that. Maybe drop a couple of the upgrades from the witches to help pay for it.
Or instead drop something minor to get up to 44 points, and add one jetbike to each of the two units? Is it a waste to have them in units of four?
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It's a bit of a waste having them in units of 4. They are basically ablative wounds for the heatlance, and if I have 8, I may as well try and drop enough points to get 9, for 3 heatlances.
Pictures!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000919.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000923.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000924.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000925.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000928.jpg)
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Looking really good! Solid colour rather than the stripe works I think. Love the different hair colours, nice touch.
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Anime hair! Nice.
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Thanks. They do loads of drugs, so I can’t see why they wouldn’t die their hair.
The only thing I’m not happy with is the skin.
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The skin does look a bit too similar to the armour colour.
Maybe do a purple line along the edge of the armour wherever there is skin next to it? Just to make the distinction clearer.
Also, maybe they want tattoos? Or would that be too difficult?
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I can just change the skin tone, make it pinker maybe?
not sure.
They probably do want tatoos, but I am rubbish at them.
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I could only do tattoos on my orcs because you'd expect orc tattoos to look a bit rubbish.
Maybe the skin tone looks fine as it is. It's hard to say from photos.
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One of them looks like she’s got massive grey eyebrows! Which she doesn’t.
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Blue hair looks great I hope you try pink and a toxic green too.
Other than that the bone look is fantastic.
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One of them needs to be ginger!
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He could name her Ted.
My greatsword is ginger.
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I feel like I want to buy another megaforce box.
I want another venom and a unit of warriors anyway, and then I feel its such good value...
I could sell what I don't want back on ebay.
But then I'd end up with like a 3000 point army. (I'm at 2000 by adding a razorwing and a unit of incubi to what I have)
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Venom + warriors = £30-something? Army box = £100ish.
So if you don't need any of the other stuff, that's a pretty big jump in cost!
I think it's probably not worth it unless you want the raider and ravager as well. Or if you actually do want 3000 points of dark eldar.
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Do it. I want to see more looks of glee upon your face as you forget all about the wife and son.
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Venom + warriors = £30-something? Army box = £100ish.
So if you don't need any of the other stuff, that's a pretty big jump in cost!
I think it's probably not worth it unless you want the raider and ravager as well. Or if you actually do want 3000 points of dark eldar.
Well, I could use 3 ravagers instead of 2 and a razorwing (boring?), and I possibly want extra raiders for the future, 12 jetbikes (2 squads of 6) and 10 scourges.
And possibly more wyches for webway portal lists. I'd also want a talos and some beastpacks for WWP.
But I could sell 10 wyches and 6 reavers, which would probably get me roughly £40 new on sprue.
But I also don't want to just have piles and piles of unpainted stuff
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But I also don't want to just have piles and piles of unpainted stuff
That would certainly be a big pile of unpainted stuff!
And it would still only cover about half the choices in the book. So you'd need to buy even more if you wanted different things.
I don't know though. It's your army!
I could use 3 ravagers instead of 2 and a razorwing (boring?)
That is boring, yes. There's too much '3 copies of the same thing' going on in 40K as it is. Surely you want a razorwing.
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Finlay ... you got me curious as to what formations are possible for Dark Eldar in the Apoc and "Reload" books. And I'm going to be in a hobby store this evening for some more 500 poin t 40K games, so maybe inbetween I'll check it out.
Course if you have the piles of stuff, painting is certainly one way to keep them from being unpainted. :engel:
But seriously, see if the wife will buy you a paint gun for Xmas!
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I paint at a fare clip GP, I painted a 3000 point OnG army in about 6 months, and I've done a 1500 pt IG army pretty sharpish.
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Good point.
Also, forgot to check out those books for possible DE formations. Bummer, bummer, bummer ... I'll check the next time!
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That is boring, yes. There's too much '3 copies of the same thing' going on in 40K as it is. Surely you want a razorwing.
Other than me, I don't see it that much really.
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Skin tone help.
I quite like both. The purple could have another highlight.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000935.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000937.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000939.jpg)
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I like the purple one.
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Me too! And Ellie. thats 3-nil
Think i'll try and highlight one with grey, and one with purple, and see what I think.
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I like the elf coloured one. THe purple one is purple!
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I am with Mogsam on this one. I don't like the purple. You could go a little paler with the elf tone though or add a little more white to the purple one.
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It may be the dim photo, but the pale armour and purple skin made me think evil Tau.
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I dont want to take the elf paler because I think the ones before was too pale, too close to the armour.
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That is a great point. Probably leave it as is then.
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Purple = good.
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I prefer the flesh toned skin, but the purple isn't bad. The purple does look alien, although perhaps lightening it just a bit might work.
It looks like you used a purple wash with the skin tone color, too?
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Purple seems like a completely different alien race.
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Purple seems like a completely different alien race.
Yeah - he should really head straight over to the DE forums and see what they think ..................
:engel:
I think they look great .............. Dark Ribena Eldar ..................
(http://www.leisureopportunities.co.uk/images/120411LKRibenaAd.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxf6OPoaXCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZRGbcIrtHY
:biggriin:
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Purple seems like a completely different alien race.
What?
GP, I did put purple over the elf flesh as well.
I did the next batch with watered down wash and a bit less.
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The purple that was there looked bizarre. If that is what you are shooting for go with it.
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what do you mean a completely different alien race?
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Doesn't look like any variety of eldar. As someone else said, looked more Tau than anything else.
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It just amuses me how "set" you are in your ideas for 40k.
Why would all dark eldar be the same skin tone? Drow are dark skinned anyway
Not liking it is fine (I'm not convinced either)
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Well I wouldn't paint orks red either. If that makes me set then yes, I am set.
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Phil strikes again!
Fun police or sci-fi racism? You decide.
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Well I wouldn't paint orks red either. If that makes me set then yes, I am set.
and you have to make your own fluff for special characters, but then he has to look the same as the character anyway.
And you're not allowed to make a space marine army without vehicles.
New skin: astronomican grey with badab black wash
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000954.jpg)
5 wyches with bases
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000959.jpg)
Newest skin tone dead centre. purple boy just to the right. The others have watered down purple.
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I really like the grey actually!
Go for grey!
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Concerning the space marine thing: Claiming that a space marine army featuring a company with no vehicles is more fluffy than a smaller force with vehicle support isn't a valid claim. I never said you can't or shouldn't, I said claiming it is more fluffy isn't correct nor is there any foreseeable situation where a company would deploy with vehicle support of any sort whatsoever.
I agree with rufus, the grey looks good.
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I like the idea of racially different dark eldar!
Finlay ... you could be on to something worthwhile doing across your entire army. Some how I prefer the purpley flesh color most, but I'm not opposed to the pure purple, nor the grey, except I'm now wondering what the grey might look like with a purple wash rather than black.
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I like the idea of racially different dark eldar!
There is certainly no reason why they wouldn't be.... but for army unity and ease of painting, I will probably do all one colour
Finlay ... you could be on to something worthwhile doing across your entire army. Some how I prefer the purpley flesh color most, but I'm not opposed to the pure purple, nor the grey, except I'm now wondering what the grey might look like with a purple wash rather than black.
The grey with the purple wash is what the really purple guy is! the two on the left of the group photo I did are also the grey with slightly less purple wash.
The one person who replied to my blog on the DE forum (really? more replies about DE on an empire forum?) actually preferred the tone I did on the first two wyches.
Do people like the bases?
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Do people like the bases?
I can't see them that clearly, but I think so!
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I like the bases, except for the snow over running the side.
They look like its spring with melting snow, and the dark eldar are out and about looking for flowers heads to crack as they emerge from their cabins, their minds feveriously anxious to shake off the winter duldrums and do some hack and slashing.
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It happened accidentally on one (spilled over) and I thought I'd try it out. Not sure though.
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I like the fact that the armor is lighter colored. Makes it look a bit more detailed than the dark colored armor that normally appears.
What is the story with the dark purple skin or multicolored skin types in an army? Is there precedent within the book? I have read a lot of DE fluff, an they do say they have strange colored skin, but I hadn't seen much in the way of funky colors.
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the de fluff is ridiculous, the book is shocking.
I'm not doing multi skin tones in one army, but why wouldnt there be multi skin tones? every species in the world has different markings or colourings.
My army is a space based force, so perhaps their continual existence in zero g with interplanetary radiation made their skin different.
And they are rading all the time, so exposed to more sun on tge planets they raid than DE on gomorrah.
Drow are dark skinned anyway.
I really dont understand why you hate people trying to use their own fluff, or modifying GW fluff or whatever.
To me the bakground is more a framework to be modified. A massive part of the hobby for me!
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When did I say I hated people using their own fluff? I use my own fluff all the time.
I thought the people looked goofy and would have hated to see the models end up looking like that.
Also, who gives a shot if drow have black skin. Tigers are orange, doesn't mean I am painting my necrons in stripes.
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I like the multi hued skin colours effect. Like you say peoples skin colours vary. They are looking good so far.
Personally I really don't like anything on the edges of bases. I don't like WK's painting becuse of his basing style. However the work to the top of the base looks great. The snow really ties the stones together and raises the level.
Keep it up, my revilers are looking forward to smashing them at the EB
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When did I say I hated people using their own fluff? I use my own fluff all the time.
I thought the people looked goofy and would have hated to see the models end up looking like that.
Also, who gives a shot if drow have black skin. Tigers are orange, doesn't mean I am painting my necrons in stripes.
So why wont you accept fluff that says DE can have weird coloured skin?
Thinking they look goofy is fine, but just say "they look goofy" not "ITS NOT CANON TO HAVE WEIRD SKIN" because I do care about what you think they look like, but I don't care if you think they look goofy purely because they dont match official gw colour schemes.
well, you seem to want a precedent, and dark eldar are space drow, so there is your precedent.
Thanks fr1day, I can't wait to play the revilers!
I'll scrape the side snow off I think.
I can't do ANY painting over my 13 day holiday... gutted. (6 days with inlaws, 7 days with parents)
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Yes, I'd definitely avoid having snow on the edges of the base. It looks a bit messy, and will probably rub off anyway.
I can't do ANY painting over my 13 day holiday.
But you get to play a game, so hurrah!
Also, who gives a shot if drow have black skin. Tigers are orange, doesn't mean I am painting my necrons in stripes.
Uh, dark eldar and drow are the same thing. Tigers are not haunted robots from the dawn of time! Your comparison makes no sense.
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I think the purple goes really well with the bone armour of yours. So Gooooooo purple.
They look great by the way. I don´t want to meet them in a dark alley though.
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They look great by the way. I don´t want to meet them in a dark alley though.
Well, there are very, very few things in all of 40K I'd like to meet in a dark alley. Or a lit one.
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Sororitas.....well maybe not.
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Sororitas.....well maybe not.
Too much latex and leather for my taste, and they constantly go on about the God-Emperor and how handsome Sanguinius was when you're on a date with them. No thanks.
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I was asking about precedent because I was honestly wondering if there was any not because I was demanding evidence our anything.
And no, dark eldar are certainly not drow, and thank god for that!
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Catachans should all be black guys. Jungle, heat, most indios are at least brownish so why should Jungle dwellers be white?
Also it would make so much more sense that they kill the blond and pale Commisar should he act too funny.
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Catachans are Vietnam war movie rejects so naturally they're white with American idioms in their speech.
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My bro gave me £50 for christmas, and although I asked my dad for some warhammer, he just gave money, but to me and my family. So I guess that has to go on a washing machine!
But £50 is enough for a box of kabalites, a venom and a razorwing, I think.
Or I could use it to pay for half of another DE megaforce box, and then sell the bits I dont want (too many wyches, jetbikes, etc) to go for the razorwing.
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But weren´t many Vietnam vets black too? But should we stop derailing your thread give us more pictures I really like the bone armour purple dark eldar of yours.
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I need shopping advice!
No pics for a while, I am away from exeter from 23rd december to 4th january
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But £50 is enough for a box of kabalites, a venom and a razorwing, I think.
Probably you should do that. Buying another megaset and trying to sell parts of it would be a big hassle.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010137.jpg)
new models old heads. I'm not convinced.
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Nah, the new ones are much prettier. Although the right one still looks okay.
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They are just too big! the old shoulderpads are ludicrous as well.
Time to buy another kabalite box then!
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They look like DE to me. Yet I can understand the lack of appeal, too.
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That you even tried it fills me with anger, Finlay.
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Yeah, the old DE models look like something out of Flash Gordon (the campy movie with the Queen soundtrack - no idea about the TV or comic versions). This is simultaneously their greatest weakness, and their greatest strength. ;)
Also, they're pretty cheap on ebay, these days...
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new models old heads. I'm not convinced.
They look OK. But what's the point?
How about new heads on the old bodies?
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new models old heads. I'm not convinced.
They look OK. But what's the point?
How about new heads on the old bodies?
I’ve done new head on old body. It looks ok, but the shoulderpads are too big. I’ll post pics later.
The point is to use the old ones I have instead of buying another box of kabalites.
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The point is to use the old ones I have instead of buying another box of kabalites.
Oh, I understand that. I just didn't see why you'd put old heads on new bodies, unless the new warriors don't come with many extra heads.
Maybe you can cut the shoulderpads down on the old bodies? I can't remember what they look like, so perhaps that wouldn't work.
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hAVE YOU SEEN THE THREAD BY pORKIX IN THE b&p
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=40728.0
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac32/Porkix/Dark%20Elves/DE_Warriors1.jpg)
He seems to have a similar colours idea to your musings earlier - I think the bone helmets look rather scary.
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I think the new bodies with old heads and new heads on old bodies look better than the old models on their own.
But If they are just stealing the goodness from the new models and diluting the shitness a bit I’ll just buy another box.
Mids, I’m really happy with my bone and purple scheme now.
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But If they are just stealing the goodness from the new models and diluting the shitness a bit I’ll just buy another box.
They might well be doing just that!
You can keep the old models as reserves in case you want to play a bigger game.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010141.jpg)
I like the running pose, but I think the head is too small.
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Maybe the shoulder armor is too big?
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010142.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010143.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010144.jpg)
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I think the silver at the back should be purple too otherwise the model looks great but the bone really shines with purple contrast.
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Looks nice!
A nice alternative paint scheme. Will look forward to seeing the whole army like that!
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The jetbike looks amazing!
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What about the old model/new head guy?
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Oh, I didn't notice that. I only look at the end of threads!
He looks OK. I don't like the funny straight shoulderpads. But perhaps once he's painted he'll look fine.
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Th shoulderpads are the main problem. I might snip them a bit and see.
Also, I could just use the legs and stick a new top half on top.
Thanks on the comments on jetbikes, I think I will try purple instead of silver at the back.
I think they need more purple!
I'm also wondering about markings on the front of the bike?
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I'm also wondering about markings on the front of the bike?
No, that's the best looking part of the model at the moment!
I agree about having more purple on the bits at the back.
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I'd suggest doing the back wings/blades in purple, as you said. Will look better than the copper/silver combo. I'd then put the unit markings on the top surface of the lower two wing/blades. I'd also put some kill markings on the front purple sections in white, tallies or something like, gulp, skullz!
Looks great though.
As for the old body/new head issue. Will be hard to trim the shoulder pads and keep the organic look the DE have . give it a go, what's the worst that can happen.
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I think the silver at the back should be purple too otherwise the model looks great but the bone really shines with purple contrast.
I second this.
The "blade wings" on the back would look good having purple behind the bone, just like the front, and give the model more balance.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010152.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010151.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1010150.jpg)
I'm not overly happy with the rider. I might do his legs dark brown like on some of the wyches.
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The wing blades look better. The rider looks ok, too. Yet your idea could work as well.
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I like them as well.
I think that they do need some unit markings on the wings.
How are you going to base them. flying units seem to baffle me. I want 6 speeders in my army but what bases do they go on?
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I do want unit markings, but struggling to think of something easy enough for ne to do.
They come on the little round flying bases, like gyroscopes. I'm probably going to put sand, rocks and snow on the bottom of the flying bases to match the army.
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For the markings you just need a simple rune/script in a set colour or white.
Basing wise I think they need to be on a model base, 40mm size, for extra stabilty and ability to make a little diorama.
Have you made any tanks yet?
I bought a new large brush yesterday for my tank painting. I'm a little overawed by the number I need to do to mech the army. I've got 2 rhinos, a razorback, 2 preds and 6 speeder (inc 12 more marines) to do. They take me about 4 days a tank so that is 44 solid days of painting tanks, boo!
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Good idea. Will be easier to base them too.
I've got 2 of the old raiders and 1 ravager which I got off ebay. I have partially painted one of the raiders, but not really happy with it at all.
I hate painting tanks!
I'm thinking of painting the purple in the same way I did the blue on the megaspider, if you can remember that.
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Why not just use decals for the markings?
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Could do. There might not be ewnough. and also I've never used decals!
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decals are easy to use, especially on flat surfaces. The army badge on my arines are decals and some of the details on the terrain. I have also used a lot of decals on the rhino i have finished.
Gave the rhino i'm painting two coats of thin codex grey with the new brush and have got a nice smooth base for the detail work. I think i'm going to give it another coat tonight so it's ready for tomorrow. Off out on the piss tonight with the boys, one of the lads has just come out of a ten year relationship and need cheering.
I Might not manage the details tomorrow actually
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I am so bad at using decals. I really want to use them sometimes and have, but I struggle a lot!
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The problem with decals is how hard it is to make it look natural alongside the paint job. They stand out way too much. Or maybe I'm just terrible with them.
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der Hurenwiebel put me on to a good product when I commissioned him to make me some custom decals. It's called Micro sol and Micro set. They really, really help. Much better result than just sliding them on with water and pretty cheap too. I had to get some mailed over from the US and they wanted me to order $20 worth, but it arrived really fast and I can't recommend it enough. With the 20 bucks worth I got 3 bottles of sol, 2 bottles of set and a bottle of varnish, excellent value.
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The jetbikes look great. I still don't think they need unit markings.
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They do look great, and they certainly don't need them.
But it might be worth checking out if they'll look even better with them!
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I think it could go in either direction. Looks fine now, could look better.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0009.jpg)
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They look amazing!
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The bases in particular are awesome. Great work, looking forward to playing against them.
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You have a really nice colour scheme going on here Finlay. I will be watching this closely :mrgreen:
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Very good Finlay!
:::cheers:::
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Yes they look very unique.
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Those Dark Eldar, look very nice. You have done a great job on all these figures. :smile2:
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Thanks all. I'm really pleased with my wyches and warriors.
Moderately pleased with the jetbike and venom
not pleased at all with the raider.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0011.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0012.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0013.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0014.jpg)
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Well, that looks excellent.
What's wrong with the raider?
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I like it! I would wash the metal a lot more though.
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That line up of five figures, their bases, and the raider are looking very good. :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0017.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0018.jpg)
Reavers done
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Finished razorwing. The photo washes ot almost all of the purple highlighting. I'm pretty pleased with it irl.
I don't think I'm going to get the army done for the EB.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0107.jpg)
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It looks great. And yes you are going to get the army done!
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Hey that looks really cool. I like those Razorwings. The rules for them aren't bad either.
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Finished Raider. The crew are done, but not glued on so it's easier to transport.
I much prefered painting the new raider to the old one.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0109.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0108.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0110.jpg)
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Fin these models look fantastic. You are doing a great job.
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Thanks Phil.
I'm hoping the army will look pretty striking all together.
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I have a couple hundred dollars in DE models over here right now (my buddy just got into them). They are not an easy paint! The wracks and incubi are tough to assemble and look to be a difficult paint job. You are doing a hell of a job!
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Jabba's sail barge looks brilliant!
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I love the sail barge look!
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Jabba had great taste in vehicles.
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And slave girls.
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Hell yeh! slave girl leia is amazing.
Phil, the vehicles are actually easier than they look. I was really daunted, but found the venom, razorwing and raider all pretty easy.
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I didn't want to mention Leia in case I sounded too stereotypically geeky.
Anyway, how much is left to paint? A couple of vehicles and some squads?
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The scourges, s venom, a raider, two ravagers, about 10 wyches and 15 warriors, plus my general.
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That's not so much to do!
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Here is my kitbashed archon, Hamilcar the resplendent.
I didn't want him just standing like a normal person, so I used the legs of the venom hangers on, to have him jumping and whipping some fools right in the face!
But I'm not sure I like it.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0175.jpg)
I've finished a venom and about 10 more warriors and wyches, but they are not based so no pictures yet.
For my army which I'm taking to Belgium I am NOT going to paint my last raider and ravager. They are old style ones, and I prefer the new style so much I want to leave them undercoated, then sell them on ebay and buy new versions at some point.
I am going to try and paint the 5 scourges
and I am definitely going to paint 3 trueborn with blasters and the Archon
(I also need to touch up the 2 part painted goblin wolf chariots I got from ebay, make the unit movement trays, and paint the wolf for my wolf riding hero.)
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But I'm not sure I like it.
He looks great! He should look amazing painted.
I hope you get everything done!
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I like the model, I dislike the cork.
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WIP trueborn and Archon.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/DSC_0183.jpg)
Want to finish them tonight, but it's 12.30 and I'm too tired.
Should be able to finish them quickly tomorrow.
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Are they finished now?
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Yes, but it took me ages to build the scourges, then I got distracted by the football.
Tomorrow I have to: finish basing loads of DE, paint scourges, paint chariots, pack, make movement trays.
Errrr.
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I'm sure that's possible.
!
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Depends if Ted is co-operative.
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Distract him with Captain Calamari!
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How is that in anyway possible?!?!
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The chariots are part painted, so only a little touch up to make them decent to play with...
The basing will take about an hour.
I can make my movement trays at Fr1days house
The scourges can do with a basecoat without highlighting, which will save a fair bit of time.
Ellie can pack all my clothes.
I can comfortably paint 5 troopers with highlighting in an evening.
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I can make my movement trays at Fr1days house
Have you got some of the GW modular ones? If so it hardly takes any time to make them.
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Ok, I've epically failed.
No scourge painting at all.
The chariots look crap but are done.
Now to pack!
I need to borrow some adeptus battlegrey at FR1days house to finish basing the DE
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I like the new edition. I like the relic missio ! I really don't like the kill point mission. I'd reroll that scenario every time if the opposition allowed me
Trueborn in venom are good.
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I like your army way more than I like mine!
Lascannon jabba skiffs full of people.
Did anyone charge your skiffs? You can overwatch with everyone on board!
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Hold on, do open vehicles still get a modifier on the damage chart?
Yes, +1 to damage them. Not sure if we did that or not.
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Your Deldar vs Adam's space marines!
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K%20games/40K%20games%20new/P9270012_zpscbb89be8.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K%20games/40K%20games%20new/P9270013_zps3ba02184.jpg)
And again, except army-swapped.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K%20games/40K%20games%20new/P9290024_zpsab645af5.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K%20games/40K%20games%20new/P9290026_zpse4ce2275.jpg)
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I like your army way more than I like mine!
Lascannon jabba skiffs full of people.
Did anyone charge your skiffs? You can overwatch with everyone on board!
I think they got grenaded a few times- but probably wouldn't have made a difference.
Hold on, do open vehicles still get a modifier on the damage chart?
Yes, +1 to damage them. Not sure if we did that or not.
We definitely didn't do that!
although I think they got blown up quite quickly. I remember the ravager getting imobilised in the 2k point gamer- would that have changed to weapon destroyed? If so, it might have been preferable as it was stuck nowhere.
And I think one got the "only shoot with snapshot" once....
but still, bad finlay.
I really like my army. I need to finish painting it, BADLY, and want to add more warriors and a unit of incubi. I'll maybe swap the old skiffs to new ones at some point.
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dont paint them badly! They look good, you could replace the old skiffs but painting them will make a huge difference and get some flying stands for them.
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Yes, I doubt the +1 on the damage chart would have actually made a difference in those games.
Immobilised turns into explodes with +1! But we were playing 5 = wrecked for the first night anyway, because Adam said that's what it was. So we were all over the place with the rules.
and a unit of incubi.
They have special AP2 power weapons, according to the DE FAQ. So they can still kill terminators. They might be good.
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Incubi are tough. They can be quite hard to deal with if they can be transported into range.
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They'd get shot to fuck Once they kill what they assault though.
Still, I like the models so I want to add some. Need the archon for grenades otherwise they strike last when assaulting into terrain!
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They get shot, but that AS 3+ comes in handy. You need to commit a lot to kill a unit.
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They are great models. Get some.
I also really like the snake man, though I believe he is quite poor rules wise
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Nasty resin models though! Unless you can get the metal ones on ebay that were released before they decided to resinate everything.
I bet no one uses the Archon's Court!
Why can't incubi afford their own grenades?
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No pockets to put them in
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Impractical outfits!
Everyone should have pockets.
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My DE player has 5 pewter and 5 resin incubi. To be honest, the resin casts for the incubi are really good. I can't tell the difference.
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rufus wants me to post my list, so he can tailor his to beat mine.
120- Archon w/ Agoniser, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Haywire Grenades
156- 3 trueborn with 3 blasters, venom with extra SC, night shield
218- 9 wyches w/ haywires, Shardnet, Hecatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
240- 10 wyches w/ haywires, 2 guantlets, Hecatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
185- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, (raider is unpainted)
125- 5 warriors, blaster, venom, extra splinter cannon
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
130- 5 scourges w/ 2 haywire blasters (unpainted)
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield (unpainted)
175- razorwing, FF and NS, splinter cannon
its 1755 points, really inefficiently due to all the upgrades on my vehicles.
I THINK I have 3 more reavers unbuilt, somewhere.
I love the scourge models, but they never do anything in my games.
I think I'd like another box of warriors to stick in a skiff, and a venom to swap wyches into. The wyches always underwhelm me.
Well really, I want more venoms with 3 men units of trueborn in, but that's a bit powergamey.
I'd like to field something like this :
120- Archon w/ Agoniser, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Haywire Grenades
90, succubus with agoniser and haywire grenades (210)
146- 3 trueborn with 3 blasters, venom with extra SC,
153- 4 incubi, venom with extra SC (with archon) (299)
218- 9 wyches w/ haywires, Shardnet, Hecatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields, (with succubus)
185- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
185- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields
125- 5 warriors, blaster, venom, extra splinter cannon
78- 3 reavers w/heatlance
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
130- 5 scourges w/ 2 haywire blasters
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
165- razorwing, FF, splinter cannon
which is 1981 points. and feels perhaps one troop unit light? I could change one unit of reavers and one bigger warrior unit, to 2 more smaller warrior units in venoms, but then it looks quite venom spammy!
For the list above, I'd only need to add a venom, a succubus, the incubi and a warrior box.
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How's the painting coming along?
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How's the painting coming along?
I havent done any since May 2012, when I packed up my painting table in my old flat, as we agreed the sale on the house I live in now!
Ted is mobile which means i cant really leave stuff lying around, and having to get the paints out everytime is a massive pain.
Furthermore, GW have changed all their colours and stuff since I last painted, so I'm not even sure I'll be able to finish the army. I used gallons of sepia wash over my bone coloured armour!
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Sounds like ya need to buy a house that has a place that can be closed off from the little tykes.
As for the new paints, bah! Where's there's a will, there's a way.
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Lots of jabba skiffs! Scary.
I don't remember what most of those weapons and upgrades are.
Hmmm, not that easy for you to take/hold objectives, maybe? You have to get out of the skiffs to do that.
rufus wants me to post my list, so he can tailor his to beat mine.
I'm not serious about this, by the way! I hope.
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Sounds like ya need to buy a house that has a place that can be closed off from the little tykes.
As for the new paints, bah! Where's there's a will, there's a way.
It's more or less the only thing where I don't get my own way... we have a "spare room"- but this has to be kept presentable for visitors
and a "play room" for the kiddos. When they're old enough to not really play, I might get one of them!
alternatively, win 20 grand on the lottery and convert the garage into a space suitable for painting like Midaski did (the converting I mean, not the lottery winning)
Lots of jabba skiffs! Scary.
I don't remember what most of those weapons and upgrades are.
Hmmm, not that easy for you to take/hold objectives, maybe? You have to get out of the skiffs to do that.
venoms are a lot scarier than skiffs, really!
what don't you remember?flickerfields is a 5+ ward save. Night shields takes some distance off enemy shooting (so helping you avoid being rapid fired)
blasters are 18 inch dark lances. agonisers crappy over priced power weapons. heatlance a weaker melta. splinter cannon 6 poison shots. haywire weapons are extra good vs vehicles.
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Don't you get an automatic 5+ ward for being a skimmer now? You might not need the upgrade. Have to check that. Edit: ah, you get 'jink,' which means a 5+ cover save if you moved. 4+ if you moved flat out.
I hate those -range things! Is it -6"?
I worry that my stuff will all be shot to death really quickly.
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I thought flicker fields were an invulnerable save, not a jink save.
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Sounds like ya need to buy a house that has a place that can be closed off from the little tykes.
As for the new paints, bah! Where's there's a will, there's a way.
It's more or less the only thing where I don't get my own way... we have a "spare room"- but this has to be kept presentable for visitors
and a "play room" for the kiddos. When they're old enough to not really play, I might get one of them! alternatively, win 20 grand on the lottery and convert the garage into a space suitable for painting like Midaski did (the converting I mean, not the lottery winning)
Don't give up the ship!
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I thought flicker fields were an invulnerable save, not a jink save.
My point was that flicker fields are probably redundant now. Unless you don't move your skiffs.
Hey, venoms only have 2 hull points!
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Oh I agree, but I was asking if it was an invulnerable save. I thought it was, and it does matter because I use sternguard and they can mow down jinking vehciles with low AV.
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Sternguard sternguard sternguard. You mention them more than Grutch mentions Mexicans.
I assume the flicker thing is a ward save, but I don't know.
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Well Philly's Sternguard are led by a guy named Pedro...
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They come round here in their drop pods, taking our jobs...
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Yo soy spacemarines?
I have two full units painted up and love them! Plus everything else I use is pretty much the standard stuff, but I was really just giving an example from an actual game. There are other weapons that ignore cover saves too, I just don't use any of them.
Now the flicker field itself is probably not worth the points. The shadow thing that reduces range is. I hate not being able to shoot a skimmer with bolters when I want too.
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There are other weapons that ignore cover saves too
There's an IG order that forces rerolls on cover saves, and incinerators ignore them. Those are relevant to me! Oh, and a divination power too. Or IG hydras - 2 twin autocannons with 72" range, ignoring jink saves.
The range reducer is evil.
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Yeah, so me too, I use a lot of autocannon squads.
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Sternguard sternguard sternguard. You mention them more than Grutch mentions Mexicans.
:icon_lol: :::cheers:::
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We were going to take this point... but we are just so sleeeepy.
Pedro does give them move through cover... they just jump over the impediments!
Oh! I got a million of them!
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It's funny because it's racist.
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LOL Terrible. We are terrible people.
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I thought racism was limited to certain approved back table threads. At least that has been my perception over my time here :-D
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There are other weapons that ignore cover saves too
There's an IG order that forces rerolls on cover saves, and incinerators ignore them. Those are relevant to me! Oh, and a divination power too. Or IG hydras - 2 twin autocannons with 72" range, ignoring jink saves.
The range reducer is evil.
I'm having flashback nightmares to entire squads of deldar and skiffs getting vaporised by incinerators and landspeeder heavyflamers!
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Played 2 games over the weekend. One got off to a bad start, as I didn’t really feel like playing- with hindsight I should have said no I’ll miss this, let’s play magic or risk or something. We rolled relic and diagonal terrain, and my units all got blasted away as they moved towards the relic.
I then played a “big guns never tire” vs fr1days marines. I had a really good first 2 turns, then on turn 3 his reserves arrived and really did a lot of damage. After that I always felt like I was chasing the game.
But ended up losing only due to a snapshot missile launcher blowing up my spaceship (we figured it could contest the objective, as it didn’t say it couldn’t? but FR1DAY thought he’d seen something which said it couldn’t) which gave him 1 point for killing my heavy, and 3 points because I couldn’t contest the objective.
If we had played one more turn he would have wiped me out though, so if I had snatched a draw it would have been a bit flukey.
Although I think Adam was left with 2 scoring squads only, each with 1 marine!
Highlight of the game for me were my archon blowing up a landspeeder by throwing a haywire grenade on it from his skiff, and my ravager annihilating his captain! Failing 2 “pass off” rolls, and then one ward save- insta death!
I felt like my units had lost quite a bit of mobility from 5th. My 2 units of 3 speeders with heatlance should probably be 1 unit of 6. Only having 1 melta per unit is too dodgy, even with bs4. And scourges, despite having gorgeous models, are not very good.
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You will probably gain mobility back when DE get a new dex. I know regular eldar have done.
What is this space ship you speak of? Most tanks can't contest objectives, unless its heavy support or fast attack in the appropriate mission.
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I've always played that you measure distances from the hull, and my planes are more than 3" from the objective (which is a token on the ground) and so can't contest. Like Friday, I also remember seeing that rule but have never found it again.
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I've always played that you measure distances from the hull, and my planes are more than 3" from the objective (which is a token on the ground) and so can't contest. Like Friday, I also remember seeing that rule but have never found it again.
that would put you in the same category as people who don't allow people to disembark from vendetta's!
You will probably gain mobility back when DE get a new dex. I know regular eldar have done.
What is this space ship you speak of? Most tanks can't contest objectives, unless its heavy support or fast attack in the appropriate mission.
Think it’s called razorwing fighter- and we were palying the “heavy can claim” one!
I felt like fleet and random charge distances really hurt. Felt hard to get charges from wyches out of their transports- which they have to do as they get annihilated if out in the open.
I fancy using a Haemonculus with liquefier and maybe some wracks. But hate the models.
My Incubi arrived though. Not sure if I should paint them the same colour scheme, (bone and purple) or a different one- green?
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I think you should measure to the space ship's base, not upwards to the model. You never measure ranges upwards, do you?
The razorwing is a bit lame for the cost, what with not being able to hover and having a weird selection of weapons.
My Incubi arrived though. Not sure if I should paint them the same colour scheme, (bone and purple) or a different one- green?
Maybe bone and green, leaving out the purple?
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Without fleet, charges over 6 inches are very risky. Unless the enemy have no guns. Fleet helps a lot with charging.
Has the Razorwing got armour 10 all round?
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How in gods name can DE gain mobility? They are the most mobile army in the game minus the ability to deep strike.
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How in gods name can DE gain mobility? They are the most mobile army in the game minus the ability to deep strike.
Battlefocus? :-D
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Without fleet, charges over 6 inches are very risky. Unless the enemy have no guns. Fleet helps a lot with charging.
Has the Razorwing got armour 10 all round?
and I think every charge I attempted was into terrain, making it hard to do. Silly shit charge range changes!
yes
How in gods name can DE gain mobility? They are the most mobile army in the game minus the ability to deep strike.
yeh, don't think they can. They just lost some with 6th, and are the same fragility.
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You probably need to turbocharge your skiffs up close to the enemy, then jump out next turn. Just hope they don't get shot down and then the unit inside gets flamed! ::heretic::
Razorwing definitely sucks.
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Really, the issue with dark eldar is that they have small unit sizes and only ten paper soft soldiers can get out of a skiff. They are sitting ducks if the vehicle gets opened.
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I hadn't noticed... :-P
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Well then they kick you in the balls by limiting max unit size to only 15 models for wytches, meaning they can't even hump it across the field effectively.
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The paper boats that DE get can't even be looked at funny without dying.
However, what does work is to set up some LOS blocking cover in an area around the middle of the table. Move your boats up behind on turn 1, then move them out on turn 2 and assault.
You just need to set up the table properly. Playing on a planet of open plains is asking for your elfdar to die.
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Well then they kick you in the balls by limiting max unit size to only 15 models for wytches, meaning they can't even hump it across the field effectively.
and 6th ed make it harder to charge out of the skiffs, and nerfed the warp portals so you cant charge out of them.
The boats are ok, at least they’re fast and get their jinky saves.
The paper boats that DE get can't even be looked at funny without dying.
However, what does work is to set up some LOS blocking cover in an area around the middle of the table. Move your boats up behind on turn 1, then move them out on turn 2 and assault.
You just need to set up the table properly. Playing on a planet of open plains is asking for your elfdar to die.
Terrain was set up by the 3rd party! First game was horrible because the relic was quite exposed.
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There was loads of terrain!
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Well then they kick you in the balls by limiting max unit size to only 15 models for wytches, meaning they can't even hump it across the field effectively.
and 6th ed make it harder to charge out of the skiffs, and nerfed the warp portals so you cant charge out of them.
The boats are ok, at least they’re fast and get their jinky saves.
The paper boats that DE get can't even be looked at funny without dying.
However, what does work is to set up some LOS blocking cover in an area around the middle of the table. Move your boats up behind on turn 1, then move them out on turn 2 and assault.
You just need to set up the table properly. Playing on a planet of open plains is asking for your elfdar to die.
Terrain was set up by the 3rd party! First game was horrible because the relic was quite exposed.
We used to do 3rd party set up, but we have found the game is more balanced following the rules in the book. Even if it is kind of stupid doing it that way.
If you had loads of terrain, it should be easy to keep the boats alive. 3+ cover save if a single tree gets in the way!
Relic in the open is the bane of most non power armour armies. I have seen some utter bloodbaths involving tau, dark eldar, eldar, daemons and orks in the past. None of those armies have the saves to stand in the open and get shot at while moving very slowly with the relic.
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I was going to grab the relic with my 30 man IG squad. But it turned out all the Deldar got shot so I didn't have to bother.
If you had loads of terrain, it should be easy to keep the boats alive. 3+ cover save if a single tree gets in the way!
What? How?
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5+ jink + 5+ terrain cover = 3+
Cover saves stack. The boat HAS to have moved first. The regular stealth field thing is an invulnerable save.
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Cover saves stack.
Where is this in the rules?
I thought you just used the best cover save.
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5+ jink + 5+ terrain cover = 3+
Cover saves stack. The boat HAS to have moved first. The regular stealth field thing is an invulnerable save.
This is right. You combine cover saves from the best cover with bonuses from jink, stealth and shrouded.
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I can't find anything about cover saves stacking.
Stealth and shroud increase them, yes. Jink is just a 5+/4+ save.
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Duh, yeah. Sorry! Was thinking the shrouded stealth thing.
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I thought I was right! Hurrah!
No 3+ save for skiffs except in the dark.
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rufus, I saw last night on the DE forum people referring to skiffs and reavers having 3+ cover.
there was loads of terrain, but not around the relic.
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rufus, I saw last night on the DE forum people referring to skiffs and reavers having 3+ cover.
Which rules are they using?
I want to see proof!
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they didn't say, and I didn't check yet.
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You’re missing the point, it’s better to have the ability, if you want to use it (ie late game where there is hardly anything left anyway, to shoot a crucial target) than not have it at all.
Sure, but most fliers don't have it, and I have only ever used it to off load troops, so I don't see it as much of a benefit. It is nice to not have to move a flier and reorient though I guess.
The idea that it is impossible to roll double 1, double 2 or 1 and 2 is amusing. Almost as amusing as the assertion that one strength 8 shot “will do serious damage to most armour”
Only a 33% chance to even penetrate armour 12, 50% chance to penetrate armour 11. And THEN you still have to roll on the damage table.
I want to come to phillyt land, where 2 non twin linked bs 4 shots always ensure 1 hit, which always penetrates and always explodes the vehicle!
Oh, it is this Finley today is it? Black bile spewing from your tear ducts yet? lol
Looking at the averages, you will hit with both shots half the time, and at least one 3/4 of the time. If you roll bad, you roll bad. There isn't much stopping that.
My ravagers never died after only one turn of shooting.
Then your opponent isn't running enough missile or laser cannon. I have never had ravager last a turn I didn't choose to allow it. A single razorback with a laser turret is very good odds of removing a ravager from the table. With 10+ laser cannons on the table most games, I rarely have to worry about them. They are floating point sinks. The flier at least has a chance to come in and do damage, even with one fewer lances.
I think you’re comparing only Ork spaceships to the Deldar one.
It really is not very good. You cannot be confidant you’re going to kill anything with 2 bs 4 strength 8 shots.
Template is nice, IF you’re not playing marines (which vast majority of players do) and IF your opponent is obliging enough to not be in cover. In all other situations, my venoms, each with 12 poison shots, do that job just fine thanks.
I have seen them come on the board and sweep a whole unit of fire warriors from the table. I have also lost a decent size chunk of storm troopers. If the enemy ins't in area terrain, they can do just fine by being cautious about how you place them.
My point is they aren't garbage. They aren't as good as the top tier choices (night scythes only advantage is their transport capacity, not performance on the table) but so what?
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Do the reaver jetbikes have the 'skilled rider' rule? That adds one to jink saves.
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Can't recall. I think so, though Eldar bikes are WORLDS better than reavers.
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“If you roll bad, you roll bad. There isn't much stopping that.”
Apart from twinlinking, or more than 2 shots! That’s my entire point, they don’t give you much “bad roll protection”. You don’t even have to roll badly to not do any damage.
There’s only a 21% chance of killing an armour 12 vehicle you shoot at.
If you didn’t things like “they are fantastic anti armour” or “they do major damage to most armour” I wouldn’t have (as much of) a problem with what you’re saying.
21% chance to kill something is not “fantastic”, or major damage, especially as it cant come on in turn 1. So on average, it will kill one tank a game. awesome. This maths not even taking potential cover or jink saves into account.
If they were twinlinked I think I’d like them a lot more.
Do the reaver jetbikes have the 'skilled rider' rule? That adds one to jink saves.
yes!
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That explains the 3+ cover saves for them, if they turbo-boost!
But not for the skiffs.
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What else, other than a Tau railgun, has one shot kill potential on AV12 - 14 of 21%?
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That’s not per shot, that’s per the entire models anti armour armament.
Compare it to a twinlink multimelta and twinlinked assault cannon, which is basically guaranteed to kill any tank it wants to
Or 3 twin linked lascannons.
Hell, even the storm talon’s 1 twin linked lascannon and twinlinked assault cannon.
per shot it's only 11%
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172 points for 6 reavers with 2 cluster caltrops.
Bladevane is then 2d6 str6, and 4d3 str4. Turbo boost for a 3+ cover save and toughness 4. (stay away from flamers).
That sounds pretty good actually.
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Twin linked multimelta are only better at 12" or less.
Including twin linked assault cannon means you aren't really thinking this through.
I can't think of anything with more than a single twin linked assault cannon. Assault cannon, unless they roll a6 to to penetrate, are garbage against AV12 and up. they roll flat on the penetrate chart.
Lasers are better against AV12, the same on AV13, and worse on AV14.
The only vehicle mounting enough lasers to pass the razor and void wing are Vendetta, but they are broken and really shouldn't be factored into the equation.
That you think two lances on a mobile platform that is hard to kill isn't fantastic against vehicles is probably more to do with your rage towards them than anything else. Ravagers only have one more lance and are VERY easy to remove. What other than a venom full of blasters is going to do more?
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The point is phil, It’s in the army primarily to shoot other planes, and it isn’t that good at doing it.
I like how vendys don’t count, even though practically everyone and their mum can use them as allies.
Just because some shitty plains are worse than the DE one, doesn’t make it good.
IF the opponent didn’t have planes, and I could fly around untouched shooting tanks and templating infantry, they’d be better, yes.
You really should roll some dice if you think 2 non twinlinked lances are “fantastic” against vehicles.
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The point is phil, It’s in the army primarily to shoot other planes, and it isn’t that good at doing it.
They aren't horrible at it either. The issue they have is that their weapons aren't any better than most others against other planes. If all you are doing is comparing them to other fliers on a flier versus flier bases, then yes, they aren't as effective as most of the other choices. But that isn't really what they are made for. The voidbomber is better against other fliers.
I like how vendys don’t count, even though practically everyone and their mum can use them as allies.
Just because some shitty plains are worse than the DE one, doesn’t make it good.
Vendettas don't count because they are universally acknowledged to be broken piles of brokeness. You can't compare other choices to what is universally known to be a broken unit. That is why it is broken.
You really should roll some dice if you think 2 non twinlinked lances are “fantastic” against vehicles.
I have seen them do fantastic. What are you trying to compare them too? Do you just want them to wave their lances across the board and have everything die? They will do more damage than ravagers. You act like they have lasguns.
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The point is phil, It’s in the army primarily to shoot other planes, and it isn’t that good at doing it.
They aren't horrible at it either. The issue they have is that their weapons aren't any better than most others against other planes. If all you are doing is comparing them to other fliers on a flier versus flier bases, then yes, they aren't as effective as most of the other choices. But that isn't really what they are made for. The voidbomber is better against other fliers.
I like how vendys don’t count, even though practically everyone and their mum can use them as allies.
Just because some shitty plains are worse than the DE one, doesn’t make it good.
Vendettas don't count because they are universally acknowledged to be broken piles of brokeness. You can't compare other choices to what is universally known to be a broken unit. That is why it is broken.
You really should roll some dice if you think 2 non twinlinked lances are “fantastic” against vehicles.
I have seen them do fantastic. What are you trying to compare them too? Do you just want them to wave their lances across the board and have everything die? They will do more damage than ravagers. You act like they have lasguns.
We basically agree, you are just using stupid language like “fantastic” and “major damage”
I am comparing them as anti flier, vs other fliers, because that’s what their job is. They don’t have enough, or accurate enough, weapons to do this consistently, and the other weapons they have are for killing infantry- which DE don’t struggle with anyway. I’d rather have one unit do something well, than one unit do 2 things “ok-ish”. There is nothing else in the army to kill fliers, so I use it to kill fliers. If it had twinlinked lances, it would be much more consistent and it would probably instantly make it worth it. (or missiles it could use vs other fliers)
I am going to pretend it’s a void for next games though.
Ironic that a "fighter" is better vs infantry and a "bomber" is better vs other fliers.
“Do you just want them to wave their lances across the board and have everything die?”
Well, they come on in turn 2 earliest, games are on average 6 turns. So if not shot down, they will on average kill 1 av 12 vehicle a game. That’s not “fantastic”. That’s not “major damage”.
They are universally accepted as "not as good as ravagers"
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The fantastic description was intended as a comparison to other vehicles (particularly fliers) versus armor. Honestly, only vendetta and maybe Stormraven are better.
Maybe my play style pretty much renders ravagers a stack of wasted points. I don't know. They are a single target with a lot of lances, meaning they will be gone.
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you take about infinity lascannons, so I can see ravagers being a problem. Still, they're quite mobile and will always have their 5+!
(storm talon is still better :P)
How many points are aegis defence lines?
Are they used by “normal” people?
What do they do? Give you a wall and an anti air gun to use?
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How many points are aegis defence lines?
Are they used by “normal” people?
What do they do? Give you a wall and an anti air gun to use?
50 for the wall, then 50 for the quad autocannon (or you can get a lascannon or com relay instead).
But the deployment rules are a bit weird... you deploy any terrain you bought as a fortification first, then deploy normal terrain after. I think people can put terrain in front of your gun so you can't see!
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harumph Maybe we should deploy per the book, it might be good?
Apparently some tournies house rule fortifications go down after.
I think I’ll try that cluster caltrop reaver unit. It would be really good to mop up all those tiny scoring units left!
I’m re-enthused with the hobby now at least, I want to paint!
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We place after.
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Maybe we should deploy per the book, it might be good?
It would be fine by me! I haven't read that part of the rules properly yet though.
The reaver unit sounds better than those ones you were using, which didn't do much.
Paint stuff and post pictures of it!
We place after.
Doing it wrong! ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::
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In the future I will go for 1 unit of 6 with 2 heatlances. Yes, you can’t shoot 2 things. But 1 heatlance shot is dodgy! An added bonus. Where as 2 feels more like “should” kill the tank.
And a void raven over the razorwing- and leave it’s Flickerfield on so I don’t have to evade.
Gonna have a ponder on models for the haemonculus.
Haemonculus with the random ap flamer, with wyches in a transport. Give wyches an automatic pain token so they get FNP.
When the wyches disembark, the haemonculus stays on the transport, which can then fly 12, shoot its dark lance and flame people. Will be annoying to have to try and kill it, as mostly empty, but a pretty annoying boat to have left.
Maybe.
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Maybe we should deploy per the book, it might be good?
It would be fine by me! I haven't read that part of the rules properly yet though.
The reaver unit sounds better than those ones you were using, which didn't do much.
Paint stuff and post pictures of it!
We place after.
Doing it wrong! ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::
It was a conscious choice. I mean, hills don't form up around fortifications, it is the opposite.
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In the future I will go for 1 unit of 6 with 2 heatlances. Yes, you can’t shoot 2 things. But 1 heatlance shot is dodgy! An added bonus. Where as 2 feels more like “should” kill the tank.
Yes, you can't rely on a single melta.
What does the voidraven have, weapon-wise?
Gonna have a ponder on models for the haemonculus.
Some kind of crazy pirate dude?
When the wyches disembark, the haemonculus stays on the transport, which can then fly 12, shoot its dark lance and flame people.
No firing a flamer if you move 12". It can't snapshot.
It was a conscious choice. I mean, hills don't form up around fortifications, it is the opposite.
The rules have it the other way around for a reason.
Anyway, I thought you didn't use any terrain! How else do you get your ten lascannon shots against every enemy model! :icon_razz:
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Honestly, I am not sure why they have it that way around. We make a mutually agreed upon table set up, then place fortification as we deploy our armies. If we took turns placing, I can see going the other way. We try to set up a dynamic table and go from there.
And our table has as much terrain as any you have shown!
:mrgreen:
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Just teasing about the terrain!
I was just looking at the rules, and they recommend using 'narrative terrain' (meaning setting it up so that it looks nice) over the alternate placement method. But even then it says fortifications should be put down first, before any other terrain!
Possibly to balance them out a bit.
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I can move my skimmers 6, disembark and move wyches 6, then charge my 2d6, right?
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Exactly.
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Beat me to it. They are assault vehicles as they are open topped and the extra long prow makes it a little bit closer for disembarkment.
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Just teasing about the terrain!
I was just looking at the rules, and they recommend using 'narrative terrain' (meaning setting it up so that it looks nice) over the alternate placement method. But even then it says fortifications should be put down first, before any other terrain!
Possibly to balance them out a bit.
I can see that for sure. We don't use a lot of fortifications. We have a couple bastions and three sets of walls, but that is about it.
We do narrative terrain, and rarely does anyone bother with fortifications! What is strange is rolling for sides, how do you place fortifications before rolling for sides? We roll after terrain placement.
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We were setting up terrain in a narative matter then rolling for deployment direction then picking sides/corners.
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Which is then when you place fortifications right?
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You roll for sides first! Before there's anything on the table.
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archon. combat drugs, agoniser, HWG, shadowfield 125
4 Incubi, venom with extra SC, 153
3 blasterborn, venom with extra SC, 146
5 wyches, haywires, venom with extra SC, 125
10 wyches, haywires, hekatrix with agoniser, raider 210
10 warriors, splinter cannon, raider with splinter racks, 170
10 warriors, splinter cannon, raider with splinter racks, 170
6 reavers, 2 cluster caltrops 172 pts
ravager, 105
ravager, 105
Voidraven, FF, 155
This is 1636 pts. obviously I can just chop the 5 strong wych unit to get to 1500 but I feel like I want EVEN MOAR venoms. The problem with that is the 5 man squads inside for objectives. hmm
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You roll for sides first! Before there's anything on the table.
What is the point of rolling? If it is a blank table play wherever you happen to be standing.
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You roll for sides first! Before there's anything on the table.
Yes you do. Then deploy fortifications, then deploy remaining terrain.
It is inherently stupid. But these are the actual rules.
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archon. combat drugs, agoniser, HWG, shadowfield 125
4 Incubi, venom with extra SC, 153
3 blasterborn, venom with extra SC, 146
5 wyches, haywires, venom with extra SC, 125
10 wyches, haywires, hekatrix with agoniser, raider 210
10 warriors, splinter cannon, raider with splinter racks, 170
10 warriors, splinter cannon, raider with splinter racks, 170
6 reavers, 2 cluster caltrops 172 pts
ravager, 105
ravager, 105
Voidraven, FF, 155
This is 1636 pts. obviously I can just chop the 5 strong wych unit to get to 1500 but I feel like I want EVEN MOAR venoms. The problem with that is the 5 man squads inside for objectives. hmm
You could add another five witches in a venom to make it up to 1750 points!
What's a splinter rack? Extra guns for the skiff?
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Splinter racks re roll misses when shooting. Quite good, but I think it can be hard to use the boats for this as can only move 6 and shoot normally, although opens up option of moving 12 (into rapid fire range) for 22 snapshots, rerolling for 6s. opinion is split on “dark city” if they are worth it, but figured it’s worth a try
Do we want to play 1750 though? I could add a 5 man warrior squad in venom, with blaster for same points as wych ones.
Or do one unit of 6 bikes with 2 heatlances, and 2 3 man units with caltrops. But would require rejigging.
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Splinter wracks are quite good.
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Rerolling to hit is good. Worth it, surely, unless they are really expensive.
Do we want to play 1750 though?
Not sure... was your game with FR1DAY 1500 points? That was still a decently sized game.
Maybe you don't need the flier at 1500 points. I probably wouldn't use one.
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I think they are ten points. The improved snap shot chances alone are a bonus.
There really is nothing wrong with hovering around shooting 10 warriors out of a skiff while providing cover for 15 man wytch units.
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I think they are ten points. The improved snap shot chances alone are a bonus.
There really is nothing wrong with hovering around shooting 10 warriors out of a skiff while providing cover for 15 man wytch units.
Unless it explodes and kills all the models?
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Pretty unlikely. If you have ravagers and other targets, shooting at skiffs with shooters isn't necessarily going to be a top priority.
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Seeing as ravagers never survive longer than one turn, wouldn't you then be able to shoot the skiffs?
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Seeing nothing survives longer than one turn..why are people playing 40k?
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My set up isn't necessarily the norm though.
The skiff will be dead next turn, of due to bolter fire, but it will still effectively screen the witches to terrain and/or put the warriors into terrain to shoot. Plus, if you throw enough venoms and fliers out there, there will be plenty of targets. They will require the opponent to pick and chose who they are going to kill.
Fandir: I think Finley is pointing to my comment that I run from 10 - 14 laser cannons in a normal 2000 point list. Ravagers will not last the first turn since they will soak up all lasers possible until they are dead.
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Fandir: I think Finley is pointing to my comment that I run from 10 - 14 laser cannons in a normal 2000 point list.
And three land raiders.
And two rocket launchers in 7th edition warhammer.
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Seeing nothing survives longer than one turn..why are people playing 40k?
I was just pointing out philly’s juxtapositional arguing. Ravagers are shit because they only get one turn of shooting. But he also doesn’t have enough shooting to kill an armour 10 skiff. Weird, huh?
Some people go so far as to advocate the warriors being in cover, and the raider being on its own doing whatever. Then can redeploy (but it takes 2 turns) later if need be. Cover is somewhat negated when I play fr1day, due to his aggressive style bringing squads with flamers forwards immediately, and all his landspeeders.
Hovering around in the skiff shooting is the “ideal”, but is hard to do due to 1) relative lack of mobility. Anything further than 18 inches away is getting snapshot or not rapid fire 2) this then puts the vehicle in danger of being charged or shot, and 3) the vehicle, and the warriors, die if you aim a fart at them.
Fandir, have you played much 40k? everything dies. At the end of rufus and fr1days game, there was I think 2 troop models left on the board. At the end of mine and fr1days game, troopwise there were I think 2 squads of single space marines (both claiming objectives) and a squad of 6 wyches left. In addition to that I think fr1day had his stormtalon, 1 speeder, 2 rhinos and 1 razorback left.
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Fandir: I think Finley is pointing to my comment that I run from 10 - 14 laser cannons in a normal 2000 point list.
And three land raiders.
And two rocket launchers in 7th edition warhammer.
My normal list has:
2 predator annihilators
1 4 laser cannon devastator squad
2 units of sternguard with 4 combi plasma each
2 10 man units of tactical marines - heavy blotters, plasma guns
9 honor guard - 3 relic blades, 1 thunder hammer
1 pedro kantor
3 drop pods
2000 points - 10 lasers
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Pretty unlikely. If you have ravagers and other targets, shooting at skiffs with shooters isn't necessarily going to be a top priority.
Skiffs full of models, shielding another unit right next to it of relatively expensive t3 no armour save models? Sure I would shoot at it, hoping to blow it up.
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Go for it. You MIGHT get 3 or 4 wytches, then wound half. It is only S3 and d6"
None of the wyches should be within 3" of the skiff. The skiff just needs to block the gaps between other models and terrain.
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"flamers have to cover as much of the target vehicle as possible"
have to check this in my book, but interesting fr1day!
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I normally brush the vehicles I want to hit as I hit the actual target I am shooting for. What are you referring to?
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yes what. I mostly flamed your troops with the flamers. Warriors, reaver and trueborn.
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I shoot flamers to hit the troops, then nip vehicles to include them in the fun! As long as you state the primary target,the incidentals are exactly that.
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I shoot flamers to hit the troops, then nip vehicles to include them in the fun! As long as you state the primary target,the incidentals are exactly that.
But if you have to make as much of the template hit target as possible, it is harder to get incidentals.
I don't think it mattered in this game, but I'll have to remember for the future!
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That is true.
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I hate cleaning up models!
least favourite part of the hobby
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What are you doing?
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cleaning up Incubi, but done now. Will spray tomorrow, then get painting on friday
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Did you decide on a colour scheme?
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I liked rufus' suggestion of bone and green. Might do them all Bone, with green heads? might look weird! will see. Then they have some cloths which I can do purple just to tie to the rest of the army.
My wych based archon will look weird next to them I think. Damnit I wish they had grenades! the wych squad with archon is a credible cc threat, and would then give me 2. I'm worried this unit will just anihilate anything it touches and then get shot to all hell (apart from death cult, who strike before me)
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ell (apart from death cult, who strike before me)
Which is wrong! They are eldar.
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ell (apart from death cult, who strike before me)
Which is wrong! They are eldar.
Deathcult are everything Howling Banshees wish they were.
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That is such a perfect sentence Crimson.
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Are not Incubi on par with deathcult though? If I remember, they have exarch stats, so should be going at the same time as deathcult.
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They have I5, according to the chart in the main rulebook! And only S3. Lame.
What do their funny swords do? Boost their strength, I hope.
I liked rufus' suggestion of bone and green. Might do them all Bone, with green heads? might look weird! will see. Then they have some cloths which I can do purple just to tie to the rest of the army.
Maybe not just the heads green! Some areas of the armour too?
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The klaivex I think boost strength and are ap2! slice slice.
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Klaivex sounds like a brand of tissues.
Scary stats though! Are you sure they are that good? :Ohmy:
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No, they’re not that good! Would be better if they had grenades so it wouldn’t waste the archon. I’m fully expecting them to get one charge off, kill most/all that they charge then get shot off the board.
“good” in a Dark Eldar army = venom spam, 3 units of trueborn with 3 blasters in venoms. And 3 ravagers.
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The champion for the incubi gets a +2st sword with ap2 doesnt he? Who wouldn't want those?!
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15 pts to make the champion, 20 for the demiklaives... so, everyone.
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Is it AP2 at full initiative though?
“good” in a Dark Eldar army = venom spam, 3 units of trueborn with 3 blasters in venoms. And 3 ravagers.
Powergaming! Disapprove.
I'd feel obligated to bring three autodreads and three hydras.
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If only vendetta and death cult weren’t fluffy, then I could call you a power gamer too ;)
Incubi are ws5, i5, s and t 3, 2 attacks and a 3+ save. Klaives give them +1 strength and are ap2. So 6 archon whip attacks, and 12 strength 4 power weapons if I get a charge.
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Nasty! I looked it up, and the demiklaive is either +2S or +2A (and AP2). Is that just for the champion?
I meant just taking three each of the best things is powergaming, and dull. Why bother playing at all!
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yes, and it’s 35 more pts to get him and the klaive. Actually, that’s probably a bargain compared to the 30 pts for a hekatrix with agoniser! (Agoniser price drop pls)
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I meant just taking three each of the best things is powergaming, and dull. Why bother playing at all!
I agree. Three of any one unit is probably powergaming.
I find those Incubi chop through most non TH/SS units like they were not even there. They attack on initiative unless my groups being cheating again....
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I like in incubi, though Finley is right. They will kill what they hit. They will then see every gun in the vicinity turn on them. Another issue is getting then into combat. Their ride will be shot. Av3+ will help though.
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Look out for overwatch too! Losing any of that unit on the way in is going to hurt.
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I dunno, most fo the sorts of units incubi are good at killing won't put a dent in a unit of 9 + archon. Run the archon in front and let him soak a couple wounds with his 2+
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9! Finlay was talking about 4+boss in a venom.
9 sounds expensetastic. And overkillish. What are they going to charge that's worth having that many of them?
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I'm not sure I'd want a t3 HQ tanking overwatch. A plasma hit would ruin his day fast.
DE need charging from the portal back I reckon.
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9! Finlay was talking about 4+boss in a venom.
9 sounds expensetastic. And overkillish. What are they going to charge that's worth having that many of them?
Anything they want. 4+boss is asking for them to get killed.
Sig: He can shrug off the plasma can't he? You chose which hits you want to look out sir don't you? I mean he has a 2+ ward.
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Well, he doesn't have 9. So it's irrelevant.
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9! Finlay was talking about 4+boss in a venom.
9 sounds expensetastic. And overkillish. What are they going to charge that's worth having that many of them?
Anything they want. 4+boss is asking for them to get killed.
Sig: He can shrug off the plasma can't he? You chose which hits you want to look out sir don't you? I mean he has a 2+ ward.
Thats the crazy good 2++ forcefield, that works until it fails once? You can tank all sorts of fire with that! Just watch out for being instant deathed, as T3 is very prone. I killed one delfdar lord with a single guard commanders power fist hit!
You need a fair sized unit to get across to the enemy, although a raider which turbo boosts behind cover, has a 2+ coversave.... Should last a turn!
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although a raider which turbo boosts behind cover, has a 2+ coversave.... Should last a turn!
No it doesn't! We covered this.
Jink doesn't stack with other cover saves.
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Charging from portal, battle focus (maybe swap so they can run then charge, not run then shoot), able to move vehicles 12 and charge from them. Realistically you couldn't have 12 inch vehicle and run and charge, 18 inches plus 3d6, rerolling is too far
#wishlist
I don't have 9 and I'm not buying 9!
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It is only one more 5 man box.
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although a raider which turbo boosts behind cover, has a 2+ coversave.... Should last a turn!
No it doesn't! We covered this.
Jink doesn't stack with other cover saves.
The only way to get a 3+ is “if you can arrange the facing that would be shot at to be completely obscured, the model gets +1 to it's cover save and the shots are resolved against the visible facing instead.” Of course this then needs to be 4+ cover, and I’m not even sure it’s really possible, unless the nose cone only counts as forward armour, which someone said on the DE forum, but I can’t see anything to back up.
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That sounds very dubious!
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The facing thing is definitely in the rulebook. But I can’t see how I’d do it with a raider. With a venom I could. Much easier with a box, I mean rhino.
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Quite hard to fully obscure something that's on a stick, anyway. So good luck with that!
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The frontage is narrow. Very much depends on the terrain.
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although a raider which turbo boosts behind cover, has a 2+ coversave.... Should last a turn!
No it doesn't! We covered this.
Jink doesn't stack with other cover saves.
I missed that? What page in the rulebook?
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Well, the rulebook just says that jink is a 5+ cover save, or 4+ if you go flat out/turbo charge. No mention of stacking with other cover saves.
Unless there's some other rule I missed?
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Does stack with shrouded and stealth, but it clearly states that under those rules.
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Yeah, otherwise a bike would get 2+ just for moving behind an aegis.
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9! Finlay was talking about 4+boss in a venom.
9 sounds expensetastic. And overkillish. What are they going to charge that's worth having that many of them?
Anything they want. 4+boss is asking for them to get killed.
Sig: He can shrug off the plasma can't he? You chose which hits you want to look out sir don't you? I mean he has a 2+ ward.
You're right, he'd have to be pretty unlucky. I'd be sweating it though!
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16% isn't that unlucky!
It actually happened in my game vs Rufus, 'ah, I'll take this on the archon'.
Dead,
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True, but it would be a 16% then another 16% (fail the look out sir then fail the 2+ ward).
But yeah, I never enjoy taking those risky rolls! I recall the last time I got fancy, poor Azreal got sandwiched and instant deathed by a Tervigon!
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Jink + Shrouded + stealth is 2++ anyway isn't it?
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Yes But shrouded and stealth are the only ones that stack
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Is it possible to get either of those for your skimmer without night fighting?
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Nope!
Eldar have a ten point 'plus one to jink' item.
Jealous!
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That sounds like classic GW design. "These things are balanced by being fragile, except they actually aren't because they have an awesome jink save."
Like skaven and their 'low leadership.'
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it's annoying for me as we should be equally if not more mobile! Eldar are even less fraghile as they're not open topped, and they're probably not AV10 either.
I THINK Tau have some extra save thingy too, but not sure.
but we were [more mobile] for ages until they got their new dex... I'd love 4+ jink and battle focus! in fact, adding those two would basically solve any wishlisting I had.
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Yeah Tau get the bonus cover wargear too.
And Eldar transports AV10? Rofl, 12 with a shield that downgrades penetrating hits to glances on a 2+, or can be used as a weapon that does D6 str7 shots at 60" with no cover save.
DE = screwed over.
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How many points is it?
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What's battle focus?
And Eldar transports AV10? Rofl, 12 with a shield that downgrades penetrating hits to glances on a 2+, or can be used as a weapon that does D6 str7 shots at 60" with no cover save.
That's just stupid though. Get it out of the game please!
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More than twice the price.
Eldar transports just seem to have gun after gun after during the shooting phase.
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4+ jink, armour 12, 2+ to remove pens- that might be the toughest vehicle in the game?
Battlefocus lets you run then shoot, or shoot then run. I’d give DE a version of it which let you run then charge, and a 4+ jink upgrade for ten points and done.
Who’s getting the next book? Feels like GK, Ig and maybe even DE are due? Orks?
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I don't want you to have a bonus to jink saves!
That eldar thing sounds absurd enough to have come from the necron book.
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135 tricked out.
The best bit, is that if the secondary weapon hits (scatter laser, which you should always buy and gets to shoot before your other weapons) the shield mega attack becomes twin linked too. Nasty! But it's not an assault vehicle so you can't charge out of it. That's a mobility limiter. If it uses the shooting attack the shield stops working for a turn.
DE are better at getting into combat, marginally I'd say.
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it's inevitable! 3+ when turbo boosting! woo hoo.
unless we get an early book in 7th edition.
I don’t think I used assault vehicle in either game, although I did try once but failed my charge roll.
Charge roll, especially when going into terrain, kinda nerfs assault vehicle!
I lost my black spray, and don’t want to spend a tenner on GW one! Grr.
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Boosted jink saves make your transports better than mine! That's lame.
If you get that, I want more armor.
I lost my black spray, and don’t want to spend a tenner on GW one! Grr.
I undercoat with a brush!
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I do that sometimes too, but find it scrapes my based sand off. I know you paint straight onto sand but I like to start from black. Cus I’m so goth emo.
My transports should be better than yours, apart from the ‘raven!
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Why should they! Stupid space elves. Hurry up and die out.
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Nope!
Eldar have a ten point 'plus one to jink' item.
Jealous!
Fifteen. We are not Tau.
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so Tau have a "plus one to jink" item too?
Deldar are definitely getting it next book!
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I want force fields on all my stuff then.
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so Tau have a "plus one to jink" item too?
Deldar are definitely getting it next book!
Yeah Tau get it too. I expect DE to get at least a +1 jink item, maybe even +2. Although it may depend who writes your book :-D
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If Crudface mysteriously dies before the book, don't blame me.
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I haven't struggled with eldar at this point. I have only played them using my space marines and necrons, and their AP 3 items are sorely lacking.
They have a rending like rule for their guns, but it isn't a common effect.
The lack of assault vehicles makes dealing with them pretty easy. They are very manuverable though. The lists I have seen are light on bodies and high on weird gimmicky things, but that could just be the player.
The do have heaps of high strength low AP shooting and templates though. Warpspiders are super cool. Swooping hawks have this template thing that gets weaker if you get them down in numbers. As always the exarchs are where you will see the real power.
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I thought I was right! Hurrah!
No 3+ save for skiffs except in the dark.
Lesson there, don't fight Deldar in the Dark!
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If Crudface mysteriously dies before the book, don't blame me.
Phil Kelly should write it. He normally does Eldar.
Swooping Hawks are awesome Philly. Their Exarch however is probably tieing with the Dire Avengers one for least useful in terms of what he actually does. You just need 6 hawks for all their awesome. If the Exarch was the one upgrading blast size there would be a point, but he doesn't.
My army is primarily wriath units. I have 25 wraithguard now, plus two wraithlords. So its quite unusual and not very competitive on troops front lol. Still it functions well as I cram my army full of fast attack and heavy support.
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But have you been stacking your cover saves! ::heretic::
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But have you been stacking your cover saves! ::heretic::
No I haven't! I never seem to get cover saves for my skimmers from buildings/aegis lines...
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I like the idea of stacking cover saves. :icon_biggrin:
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WIp Incubi
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0320.jpg)
Actually quite pleased with the highlighting on their helmets, not that you can actually see that in these crappy photos
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Love the models, hate the lighting!
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Love them! I look forward to shooting them up!
:happy:
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Me too. They look great. Like the contrast to the warriors.
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incubi need gems, armour highlighting, purple highlighting and bases.
might finish them tonight.
Aside from that I have 2 warriors and 1 wych which I never painted, (need to do), the 5 flying dudes who I'm not sure I want to use, and 3 still on sprue jetbikes (want to do) and then I've painted all the DE I have.
might buy another venom and another box of warriors. Might not.
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Did you finish the iccubi? Get those jet bikes and few random guys assembled and undercoated.
Scourges are ok.
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Need to highlight the gems and do the bases, but apart from that the incubi are done.
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So are dark eldar the worst, or 2nd worst army book?
FML
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Great as an ally, as a main force.... :(
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So are dark eldar the worst, or 2nd worst army book?
FML
Yeah... I'm just getting back into 40k, but I learned the core rules basically in conjunction with the DE army book. In other words, the DE army book is my baseline for normality. Which means that every game I play, there's always a bunch of stuff in my opponent's army where I'm like "wait, it does what?". Like, every. single. game. Or else I'm like "why would anyone bother with Ravagers at all - 9 lances couldn't possibly ever be anywhere near enough".
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Dark eldar were one of the best in 5th.
I still think they are better than or comparable to several books. Orks, Sisters, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Tyranids, and CSM. They aren't up with the Necron, Eldar, IG, or Tau of the world though.
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i would quite vehemently disagree with space wolves.
sisters are a janky shitty non codex, so don't count.
dark angels are just janked SMs aren't they?
orsk and nids were the 2 i were thinking as around the same
It’s not a huge problem because I am generally only facing SMs and GKs, and Adam’s own army restrictions means it isn’t super powerful.
I do feel I need to tweak my list a bit more than it currently is. I have 2 units of 10 wyches in raiders, which I need to swap to 2 units 5 in venoms. And I need to add more warriors instead of the spare wyches.
2 things specifically really annoy me. Agonisers are 20 pts. Incubi don’t have grenades. Lol.
So are dark eldar the worst, or 2nd worst army book?
FML
Yeah... I'm just getting back into 40k, but I learned the core rules basically in conjunction with the DE army book. In other words, the DE army book is my baseline for normality. Which means that every game I play, there's always a bunch of stuff in my opponent's army where I'm like "wait, it does what?". Like, every. single. game. Or else I'm like "why would anyone bother with Ravagers at all - 9 lances couldn't possibly ever be anywhere near enough".
don't look at how manuevarable and durable eldar are!
DE should be the most manuevarable but the most fragile list. I felt that combo worked in 5th, but now is just off.
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the sad thing is I think I probably have around 3000 pts of tau.
I have 4 broadsides, more than 10 crisis suits, 2 fishes, 1 unit of pathfinders and 1 hammerhead.
God knows where they are, though.
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Wolves are okay. But the funny thing is there was a time when DE, Wolves, and Blood Angels ruled the top level games.
Some armies just can't handle those poison shots. The more troubling aspect of DE is that they can't really outshoot the shooty armies, and their CC units eat up points that they can't recoop against those same armies since they get shot to bits. Losing the ability to assault after moving 12" in the raiders critically damaged units like witches.
I have had good results with wracks and homocs loaded out with 3 agonizers and a total of 4 liquidators in a raider. The home start in other units and then join the wracks, all board a raider, and the unit takes off, leaving FNP tokens on two witch units. The wrack unit is a bit nightmarish if it can avoid the dreaded exploding raider of death result.
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Agreed on lack of mobility killed wyches. They can’t bloody charge anything. That does frustrate me a lot. Wyches should only be used as haywire units for vehicles, hasslers, tying things up and claiming objectives. Not as a main unit
Yes, but I don’t really like haemoncs or wracks. I don’t want to do venom spam, or liquidator spam.
I was pondering one haemonculus liquidator with a big wych unit for FNP, then once they disembark he rides around in the raider on his own melting spacemarines.
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Hardly super experienced with this, but I've found units of 5 wyches in Venoms with haywire grenades pretty reliable for opening up tanks. Of course, they die immediately afterwards, because they're standing out in the middle of nowhere, potentially in front of a massive unit of Boyz or Dire Avengers, but those 5 wyches are invariably way less points than the thing they've just demolished (Monoliths, Wave Serpents, Ork Stuff).
don't look at how manuevarable and durable eldar are!
I know, right? :roll:
I hear you about not wanting to do Venom spam. Where do you draw the line in terms of when it becomes "spam"? It seems very difficult to me to build an effective DE list that doesn't have at least a few...
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yup. my 1500 pt list only has 2.
not enough!
I think I could go to 4 and still not be too spammy.
It’s simply not viable at all to not have a unit in a transport, so impossible not to spam transports. Although I do want to try 10 warriors with a lance for home objective guarding.
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Agreed on lack of mobility killed wyches. They can’t bloody charge anything. That does frustrate me a lot. Wyches should only be used as haywire units for vehicles, hasslers, tying things up and claiming objectives. Not as a main unit
Yes, but I don’t really like haemoncs or wracks. I don’t want to do venom spam, or liquidator spam.
I was pondering one haemonculus liquidator with a big wych unit for FNP, then once they disembark he rides around in the raider on his own melting spacemarines.
In my experience, witches can't be on the table at all without their FNP. You MUST use an HQ selection for the three homocs to have a reasonablely competitive list, regardless of what sytle you use. That is just my personal experience playing with and against DE.
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Because I’m not playing in a super competitive environment that’s not exactly true.
but I do feel very borked without doing boring stuff like that.
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I also feel like I need (but don’t want) 3 ravagers. 2 is fine firepower wise, but if one goes down early, which it invariably does, I’m in trouble.
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I'm still only at 1k points, but at this stage I'm being super hardline about having no Ravagers at all. I'm gonna fill my Heavy slots out with Taloi and a Chronos. My thinking at the moment is that, while Ravagers might be the simplest way to go about getting some decent AT, there are other, more flexible options, and the point at which those options become unfeasible is also the point at which 9 dark lances is also unfeasible.
But I'm a total n00b, and not good enough yet to tell whether my losses are because an idea is dumb, or I just wasn't good enough to pull it off, so I'm probably wrong.
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this is what I am running this weekend.
70- Succubus, haywire grenades
156- 3 trueborn with 3 blasters, venom with extra SC, night shield
153- 4 incubi, venom with extra SC
218- 10 wyches w/ haywires, Hecatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
130- 5 wyches w/haywires; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
185- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
60- 5 warriors, blaster.
78- 3 Reavers w/ heatlance
196- 6 reavers with 2 heatlances, 2 cluster caltrops
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
70- Succubus, haywire grenades
Haemonculus, liquidator, 60
156- 3 trueborn with 3 blasters, venom with extra SC, night shield
153- 4 incubi, venom with extra SC
190- 9 wyches w/ haywires,; Raider w/ Flickerfields,
125- 5 wyches w/haywires; venom w/ extra SC,
195- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, splinter rack
130- 10 warriors, blaster, darklance
172- 6 reavers with 2 cluster caltrops
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
125- Ravager w/ Flickerfields, night shield
need to buy a haemonculus, venom and warrior box.
how do you deliver the beastmasters, given they can't be in transprt?
looking at the book again, a chronos plus 2 talos looks like an interesting heavy selection. talos with heatlance, liquifer for 115 pts,. and cronos at 100 for the vortex.
this is all knowing the only fliers at the weekend will be one or 2 stormtalons, so easy enough to just ignore.
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how do you deliver the beastmasters, given they can't be in transprt?
They don't need one. Beasts are fast, and if you takea mix of razorwings and Khymerae to tank, both resilient and killy. Add characters to taste.
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3 beastmasters, 5 khymerae, 4 razorwing flocks, 156 pts.
something like that?
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Yeah, that setup gives you a nice, cheap and cheerful harassment / light assault / mop up unit.
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I wouldn't feel pressure to run ravagers necessarily. If you have elite slots open, those blaster armed venom can actually be a more effective anti-vehicle threat since the ravagers are such an easy and tempting target.
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I wouldn't feel pressure to run ravagers necessarily. If you have elite slots open, those blaster armed venom can actually be a more effective anti-vehicle threat since the ravagers are such an easy and tempting target.
Exactly. The Talos/Chronos stuff seems to be much more resilient, apart from anything else. I'm still a bit uncertain about the AI/AT balance and combat/ranged balance of the Talos, but I'll basically be experimenting with various combinations of synchronised impulse blasters, sync. splintercannons and sync. heat lances. My feeling at this point is that the impulse blaster and the splinter cannon are both better than the heat lance, but the latter has the advantage of versatility. I think it ultimately comes down to how many venoms I end up running...
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70- Succubus, haywire grenades
156- 3 trueborn with 3 blasters, venom with extra SC, night shield
153- 4 incubi, venom with extra SC
125- 5 wyches w/haywires; venom w/ extra SC,
195- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, splinter rack
195- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, splinter rack
130- 10 warriors, blaster, darklance
156- 3 beastmasters, 5 khymerae, 4 razorwing flocks
115 talos, liquifier, heatlances
100 chronos, vortex
105- ravager
this looks more fun than what I'm running, apart from leaving out the reavers
talos, chronos and beast unit stick together for a pretty good combat punch.
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But you don't have any evil robots or doom birds yet though, right?
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Proxy a bit and experiment!
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I also hate the evil robot models! dilemma.
I'd buy random monsters and bats and shit for the beastflocks.
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Talos and Chronos are fun!
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Talos and Chronos are fun!
I KNOW, RIGHT?!!!
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they don't die when they got shot at! novelty!
in one game my chronos didn't even kill anything. it just took AN ENTIRE TURN of space marine fire to kill it.
my papers plates werent dead and it was turn 3. i was shocked.
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They can suck up an extraordinary amount of damage. Whereas the DE vehicles more or less fall over when anything looks at it. (Ravager slightly less so, on account of needing S5 to glance it, but still)
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Something just occurred to me. Do DE vehicles get a cover save vs shooting hits, and their FF invulnerable save vs the glancing/penetration results?
Surely not.
what base sizes for khymerae and razorwing flocks?
Highlights of the weekend.
Chronos taking an entire turn of fr1day’ shooting.
2 Reaver jetbikes heatlancing the whirlwinds missile off, then charging the rear armour, and furious charging it for 2 more glances.
Doing 5 bladevane wounds to a 5 man SM squad, with fr1day promptly rolling 5 1’s.
Using piggybanks as chronos and talos proxies.
A random movement lobster in our carnage game. (unfortunately it didn’t do anything)
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Thanks for the great weekend. Rufus got the train at 10 so should be home soon. No traffic on way home so took about 3 hours.
A lot of highlights against me :( The yartzee of ones was a bugger! When ever my models go on the power plant they get killed. The same squad got blasted by Rufus Inq with ignore cover and Capt DeVolt got blasted by the dark lance on there as well.
Not sure about the 2 saves on DE vehicles, never heard anyone say anything about it and you'd have though someone would.
Khymera are on 40mm as are the birds.
saw this image, someone used chaos hounds as khymera
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKDSKfBfyrA_3l3BYtROTPLzPzxeGPPKrTKSLqe8Tr91eAMIVT)
Cheaper option, £15.50 for 10 from GW, cheaper elsewhere. 40mm bases are relatively cheap on ebay. You should get some for the reavers as well, will make them more stable.
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How about these for homunculus
(http://drachenshop.fcse.de/images/PIP42011.jpg)
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Aren't saves taken after you determine whether the weapon has penned? In which case, you then get to use EITHER ff or cover save? Have I been doing it wrong?
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That is correct, and no, you haven't been doing it wrong. Only one save in 40K (with the exception of FNP, which doesn't count as a save).
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I though cover saves were taken on vehicles before rolling to pen? Never really made sense, but that's how we play it.
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Thanks for the great weekend. Rufus got the train at 10 so should be home soon. No traffic on way home so took about 3 hours.
A lot of highlights against me :( The yartzee of ones was a bugger! When ever my models go on the power plant they get killed. The same squad got blasted by Rufus Inq with ignore cover and Capt DeVolt got blasted by the dark lance on there as well.
Not sure about the 2 saves on DE vehicles, never heard anyone say anything about it and you'd have though someone would.
Khymera are on 40mm as are the birds.
saw this image, someone used chaos hounds as khymera
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKDSKfBfyrA_3l3BYtROTPLzPzxeGPPKrTKSLqe8Tr91eAMIVT)
Cheaper option, £15.50 for 10 from GW, cheaper elsewhere. 40mm bases are relatively cheap on ebay. You should get some for the reavers as well, will make them more stable.
I think the bike bases, with rounded fronts look much better than the flat cavalry bases in 40k. :-D
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I agree, but they should go on 40mm round bases. I think the reavers 'should' go on bike bases
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Yes, highlights vs you fr1day. It was that sort of weekend for you I thnik, with 8 reserve rolls failing vs rufus!
Are those just plain hounds, painted funny? I’ve found a bunch of different monsters from Black tree I’d use, but they’re about £4 each.
40mm round bases they’re on, right?
I like those homuncs, what are they? Alternatively I was thinking about using a plague doctor.
http://www.cpmodelsminiatures.co.uk/CP%20MODELS%20PLAGUE%20DOCTOR.htm
We’ve done cover saves wrong! Amusing.
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I though cover saves were taken on vehicles before rolling to pen? Never really made sense, but that's how we play it.
Makes no difference really. It's just less stuff to roll.
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So the way I wanted to do the cover saves was right then? Even though people kept telling me off? Ha! :icon_razz:
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it's odd that we wanted to do it that way, when EVERY other save in EVERY warhammer system is after wounding.
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Hmmm, maybe it's because of the 'evade' rule for fliers? I think you decide if you want to make an evade save after taking hits, but before rolling for armour penetration. So maybe that caused some confusion.
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I’d be willing to bet we played it “properly” in the past, too!
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How about these for homunculus
(http://drachenshop.fcse.de/images/PIP42011.jpg)
Fandir!
Aldaris!
summon!
the url for this is http://drachenshop.fcse.de/images/PIP42011.jpg
I've had a brief look at http://drachenshop.fcse.de but can't find it.
I need help from ze germans.
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I like those! What are they?
They'd be good as some sort of Ordo Xenos henchmen.
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We don’t know what they are, fr1day found them on google image search, I realised they were from that shop.
Hopefully the germans can find them.
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Warmachine Cephalyx Overlords!
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/privateer-press/warmachine/cryx/units/cephalyx-overlords/prod_3618.html
That was easy. I guessed they were by Privateer from the filename.
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Aldaris and fandir, you’re fired.
I don't want 3! I want 1.
hmm.
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Cephalx are great fun in the rpg
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Aldaris and fandir, you’re fired.
Your mom.
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I could have told you that those are privateer press...but I was busy lecturing someone.
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I could have told you that those are privateer press...but I was busy lecturing someone about piracy.
Fixed that for you.
Be nice to the germans Finlay - maybe one of them will buy 3 and bring them to the bash and sell you and rufus one each ............ :engel:
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I went mental last night and bought 2 talos boxes, the overlords, a hellion box and a warhounds box.
I'm gonna kitbash razorwings out of reaver and talos bits.
planning to get that all painted for the bash.
105- Baron
60-Haem, liquifier
156- 3 trueborn with 3 blasters, venom with extra SC, night shield
125- 5 wyches w/haywires; venom w/ extra SC,
195- 10 warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, splinter rack
125- 5, w/warriors, blaster, venom w/extra SC
156- 3 beastmasters, 5 khymerae, 4 razorwing flocks
98- 3 reavers, caltrops and heatlance
98- 3 reavers, caltrops and heatlance
115 talos, liquifier, heatlances
100 chronos, vortex
105- ravage
150 pts light. feel I should add another troops choice. ideally 5 warriors in a venom, but im not buying another venom. probably better to cut 40 points and add another raider full of warriors.
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All the Deldar units are really cheap, points-wise! :Ohmy:
This is why I don't use grey knights squads anymore.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/37051108@N08/9925548683/
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Whats that finlay?
I think you need another ravager as one gets toasted easily. Ravager is 105, how much are 5 warriors on foot? Objective holder to go to ground.
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Whats that finlay?
I think you need another ravager as one gets toasted easily. Ravager is 105, how much are 5 warriors on foot? Objective holder to go to ground.
thats a kitbashed razorwing,. using cronos parts and a reaver hull. I like the murder of crows, but dodgy getting reaper stuff in england, expensive, and i've spent £230 on hobby stuff since the dwarf book came out.
I would love 2 ravagers, but only 3 HS slots, and i really want to use talos and cronos.
5 warriors on foot is 45 pts.
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Shame as the ravager and the warriors are 150pts.
Who will the baron join? He needs to be in a quick unit really. Make a unit reavers bigger with a cc weapon with the remaining points. Incubi in a venon and 10 warriors on foot with d lance and blaster?
What are the other elite choices? Anything hitty?
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baron goes with the beasts.
thought about incubi, but then they need a whole extra HQ to give them grenades.
other elite choices are wrackes (a troop because I'm taking a Haemonculus) and grotesques. both good, but expensive!
if i was making the list as tuned as possible, It'd be some wracks in a transport.
I'll probably just take some warriors on foot!
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Expensive points or cost, for the wracks?
You could Probably get some warriors on foot and and more reaver to make one squad bigger. A sixth of the time they will be scoring as well with the mission that makes FA scoring.
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money wise.
they're only 10 pts.
toughness 4 and start with a pain token for FNP, and troops due to the haem hq. easily the most durable scoring unit we have!
5 wracks with liquifier, venon with extra sc- 125 pts. Plus an extra reaver or something.
hey just realised i could make my beast unit bigger, as i have 5 more khaos hounds and 1 more hellion body to use.
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Are wracks the ones with the big trousers?
I had thought about the extra hounds. Makes the unit a nice disposable squad with lots of wounds, should make it in with a bit of cover.
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no, trouser guys are mandrakes.
wrackes are infantry sized talos/cronos. Hameonculus creations.
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And with pretty cool models actually. I'd go for the Wracks, and fill out the remaining 25 to taste. Another beastmaster with one more Khymera perhaps? Feels almost a bit wasteful, but it's two more bodies, and the master adds a bit of shooting.
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anyone got experience of using lasercut mdf bases? I'll put these under my flying bases for venoms, raiders, ravagers, chronos, reapers, and beasmasters.
and its 60mm for the vehicles and cronos, right?
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I bought Rufus some mdf 60mm bases on ebay for cheap and they are great apparently.
60mm for cronos and large flying stands, that's what i've used on my speeders. Did the cronos not have bases in the box?
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cronos has the round flying ones, beastmasters had small flying ones, which are bigger than the normal infantry ones- i'm gonna stick those on 40mm round ones.
anyone want me to order some to receive at the bash? although postage is only 40p.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2mm-MDF-Round-Bases-for-Wargames-suitable-for-all-scales-periods-and-genres-/121298717171?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&var=&hash=item1c3df789f3
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40mm for the beastmasters.
2mm thick might be a little thin. I'd get 4-5mm ones.
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MDF is great stuff. I just had a guy I know make me a bunch of MDF bases for my new terrain purchases.
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2mm thick might be a little thin. I'd get 4-5mm ones.
I think the ones you bought me are 2mm thick. They look fine.
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especially because all the ones im buying will have a flying base on top
I've made the 5 khymerae, the cronos and part of the hellions- will hopefully finish making everything tonight and strart painting.
Gonna try and paint my flamecannon too, because I don't think Soth has one.
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sometimes I see models painted so nicely I think "wow, that is incredible."
I really do think some people produce art.
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/lowkeyyrawq/Mini%20War%20Gamer/DSC00080copy.jpg)
jizzbombingly good.
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While the blending on the purple is awesome, those blood spatters are easily the best I've seen. Absolutely fantastic.
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(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/lowkeyyrawq/Mini%20War%20Gamer/DSC00076copy.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/lowkeyyrawq/Mini%20War%20Gamer/DSC00077copy.jpg)
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That is just amazing, and I don't even like the colour scheme.
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Stunning work!
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Airbrush work on the armour and torso is great, the blood splatter is 'real'. However the arms dont look great, its a strange thing. The brush skills arent as good as the airbrush ones.
How is your talos coming along? Did you get the bases.
I really need to finish off my revilers and warriors for the bash.
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i've made everything, apart from the talos weapon choices as I haven't decided yet.
ordered the bases!
basecoating the cronos tonight.
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Is it going to be mostly purple or bone? Or shiney metal. Have you seen the steam tank thread in the brush and palette forum. He had chrome paint. Look great and easy to do. One colour with no highlighting or shading.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0778.jpg)
no, cant fnd that thread!
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i've made everything, apart from the talos weapon choices as I haven't decided yet.
ordered the bases!
basecoating the cronos tonight.
I found it pretty easy to magnetise the Talos weapon choices, meaning that experimenting with different loadouts for different functions is possible. Highly recommend.
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I know I SHOULD.
just seems a massive pain. don't have any magnets.
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Here is that chrome paint thread
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Honestly, the biggest pain is getting the magnets in the first place.
Partly, though, I think for me this was a kind of reaction against GW price-gouge. As the prices get more ridiculous, I'm somehow willing to devote more effort to individual models...
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Magnets
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/wayland-games/magnets/hobby-magnets-3mm-x-1mm/prod_21191.html (http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/wayland-games/magnets/hobby-magnets-3mm-x-1mm/prod_21191.html)
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Tentacle robot looks good so far!
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Yes, I like the model, and I've always liked Finlays colour scheme. Looking forward to seeing it finished!
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Should I paint my Khymera's (unconverted chaos warhounds) uniform multicolours, or different for each model?
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Uniform, as in all the same palate.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0801.jpg)
Quite pleased with him, so will do the others the same.
Need ny chickens to arrive.
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He looks good!
Chickens?
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I ordered some chickens to be my razorwings!
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Oh! Amazing.
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I like him a lot! Looks awesome!
And that man looks super nervous having a Dark Eldar dog roaring at him.
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Looks good Finlay, like the red mane.
I need to do some painting!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes looking great Finlay!
And what he said!
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0801.jpg)
Harry doesn't look impressed .................... :engel:
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It's an old paper, so knowing he was relegated it's good!
I'm pretty confident I will get my DE finished.
3 beastmasters and baron and cronos are almost done.
hoping to finish my 4 other khymera tonight.
then need to do Talos, and chickens, and Haem.
Not sure I'll get the dwarf flame cannon done though.
and still haven't even made my infinity models :(
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0910.jpg)
Very pleased with these wee beasties
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Looking great Finlay!
I think I don´t want to know what they can do.
:ph34r:
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They provide a 4+ invl save so the razorwings can do all the killing!
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I said I don´t! Want to know.
Well I just hope they are Toughness 3 then so my Flashlights might give them some hard time.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0919.jpg)
Baron sathonyx
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0916.jpg)
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0915.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0914.jpg)
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:::cheers:::
:eusa_clap:
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Lovely model - you should be proud.
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The new Style of the Dark Elder is amazing...really characterful army.
I am really looking forward to the bash now...and will try to get more 40k painted.
Well done Finners.
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I've really enjoyed painting all l this.
Nice change from vehicles, warriors and wyches.
Looking forward to painting the talos.
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So my birds haven't arrived, need ideas for makeshift razorwing proxies seeing as we're travelling in a week!
Also need to borrow Soth's glue and accelerant as I cannot superglue my Cephalyx dudes and their spindly arms.
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They look amazing! Your evil space elves are going to be a lot more interesting with all these dogs and tentacle robots alongside the jabba skiffs.
I don't know what you should use as temporary birds though. Those dark elf harpies you had? Pegasus? Hope Soth has some bat swarms you can borrow?
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harpies a good shout, if I can find them
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I like rufus' new Kjeldoran outpost avatar! I always wanted a couple of these. They were awesome!
And I'm really looking forward to playing Mr. Finners Space Elves. Annnndd... off to the "get the Necrons finished" grind.
again...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rLGluToKXwY/TVB0aIH38JI/AAAAAAAAARM/T618BF4HAxw/s1600/Slave+To+The+Grind.jpg)
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Heeeey painting stuff is fun....
as soon as you are done with it.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0949.jpg)
Thus reads that I can't have liquifiers and chain flails, right?
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Yup.
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and i cant buy an additional CCW, and turn it into chain flails?
it's weird cos on the model, chain flails are on the right hand, and liquifier on the left. I WANT BOTH
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By the book, you can't. I won't mind if you do anyway, but other opponents might.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0955.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0956.jpg)
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He looks very haemunculic!
:::cheers:::
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Great model and painting.
Im not sure the red goes with the purple though?
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Think it's better Irl. But open to suggestions. I was thinking of just doing it purple/pink instead of red.
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The wooden bases for my jetbikes and hellions are too big!
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Hm. That actually is kind of a big deal - templates and stuff are not exactly uncommon when targetting hellions.
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Too late, glued em on.
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may have gryphon sepia'd my Talos before the bronze was dried.
now he's ever so slightly fabulous
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Love that pain engine! It is smaller than I thought though, unless your hands are enormous.
That homoc, is that the cepheryx (SP?) from Iron Kingdoms? I love those as baddies in the game!
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yes it is quite small. not much plastic for £30! talos is done now. i prefer the look of the cronos for some reason. Talos just looks weirdly balanced with the liquifer. photo tomorrow as my phone is upstairs.
yes, the haemunc is the cephalyx guy. nice model. needs extra arm/claw things but havent glued them yet.
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0983.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0985.jpg)
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That's one awesome model.
Love it!
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Very cool!
So it is roughly the size of a dreadnought then?
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it's probably a little smaller, but will look the same size on the base because it's hovering.
I'm doing the bases tonight, then will post again!
will also get full army, and full unit shots, at the bash.
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I'm gutted my chickens to be counsts-as razor wings didn't arrive :(
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Use an ACTUAL chicken. Whatever it poops on is dead.
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soth does have some chickens....
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Nail some chicken nuggets to a base and you're set!
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Use an ACTUAL chicken. Whatever it poops on is dead.
I assume, it is a template weapon.
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Depends on what it's been eating.
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That just determines if it has torrent or not.
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Or whether it uses the big or small template.
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Using chicken nuggets ... lazy! :closed-eyes: I like Darknight's idea much better ... :icon_lol:
Use a zombie chicken ... they keep running even when you chop off their heads.
Great paint job on the last mini, Finlay! :::cheers:::
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i've found 4 harpies, and think they make decent stand ins, albeit not as amusing as a flock of chickens.
only 3 have wings though, so i have 3 razorwings, and 1 razor.
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so apparently calthan brown + block does NOT = scorched brown.
crap.
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Just realised I've only painted 6 jetbikes, not 9.
ARSE BISCUITS
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Better crack on then
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no chance in hell!
I only have 6 in my 1500 pt list, but i was just gonna bring everything and see if i could go to 1750.
the problem is most of my spare points are in extra heavy points- space ship and ravager. or units which need transports.
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Bring 'em unpainted. 3 unpainted models in a list will kill no one.
I hope.
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I agree, i still have unpainted stuff
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0986.jpg)
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Not enough snow. Don't be shy!
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it's 10.40! still need a shower and to pack
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Yeah well, I got one more day.
:happy:
Oh wait.
On which I will work.
:icon_neutral:
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(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0989.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0987.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/IMAG0988.jpg)
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Those are quite scary! :ph34r:
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Cuddly! They could hang out with my wraiths, they kinda got the same vibe going.
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I mioght give my Talos butt tentacles, like the cronos, when I get back. Think it looks better than not having them
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So what is the story with the whole Beaststar thing?
Looks ridiculously nasty and kind of torpedos the argument that Dark Eldar is the worst book. With a couple models from Eldar, Dark Eldar are one of the best performers in the current meta.
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So what is the story with the whole Beaststar thing?
Looks ridiculously nasty and kind of torpedos the argument that Dark Eldar is the worst book. With a couple models from Eldar, Dark Eldar are one of the best performers in the current meta.
*cough*
Those "couple of models from Eldar" are what makes it work... that's like saying "he defeated three guys all by himself, in single combat! What? Yeah, he had a sniper rifle and several hundred yards to work with. So?"
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Right, but it is a pretty small selection for an ally option.
And really... you could just paint them like the rest of the DE.
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A bullet is a small part of a gun too, but without it nothing much happens.
:wink:
And yes to your second point. That's what I'd do.
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Totally agree. But the lists I was seeing seem to build off that deathstar while using venoms filled with blasters and venoms filled with warriors to deal with the other issues on the table. Interesting set up. Not saying it is the end all, but it is a nice way to take the DE from worst (which I don't think they are) to first (or close to it)!
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As a stand alone book, who is worse? Orks maybe? Possibly BA?
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I would say orks for sure. You can make some nasty fast lists with DE, filled with blasters and venoms. They can still be competitive with light allies.
Tyranids are as bad.
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I just have a mental block towards using allies, and fluffwise merging eldar and deldar, even though you could just make it a pirate band...
Maybe if I get ny arse handed to me all weekend I'll want to!
My deldar army is perfectly competetive vs Friday and Rufus army's anyway.
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As long as it isnt cut throat, the armies are all competitive really.
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I have seen this army on the table, and it looks splendid :)
Also, Aldaris was "kicking" your butt ;)
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I drew that game novo!
But got my butt whooped in both others
Overall disappointment with my new additions. Beast unit cannot kill anything. (To be fair, it might not be meant to). And talos and cronos lack of speed took their toll In all three games.
So I think overall the army book is even worse than I thought.
It's still competitive vs non powergamed armies (I at least killed shit loads of stuff in all three games), but it is at a reasonable disadvantage , and (although merely conjecture as I dint play competitively) will be a complete non contender as a stand alone book in the tourney scene.
Not enough tools in the toolbox!
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Also, Aldaris was "kicking" your butt ;)
Nope! We drew and game ended on turn 5. Turn 6 Finlay probably would have had it with the relic, turn 7 I would have crushed the remains I think. So this was pretty much the coolest outcome, with 2 just finished armies!
:::cheers:::
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Finlay,
Rumours of DE ahead
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/new-dark-eldar-release-new-unit.html (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/new-dark-eldar-release-new-unit.html)
rumours, just rumours remember
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Sweet, I figured it'd be at least within a year. Not buying anything new till a book anyway
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Seems like it will be DE or Spacewolves after orks if the rumors are true.
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Orks next then?
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Yeah, beginning of June apparently.
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this is an actual rule on the dark eldar forum
3. We encourage and promote constructive and positive discussions about all aspects of the Games Workshop hobby. We do not wish to see negative topics or comments
after they instantly locked a thread I made about skitarii codex vs the shitty deldar release.
hahahaha.
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I'm starting to think we're rather spoiled at W-E compared to some other forums
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The DE one is particularly bad, but yes we are really.
The dark elf one is bad as well actually. Must come with the territory.
I hate over moderation, way to stifle the board.
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New Dark Eldar this weekend Finlay - so I hear. :engel:
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this is an actual rule on the dark eldar forum
3. We encourage and promote constructive and positive discussions about all aspects of the Games Workshop hobby. We do not wish to see negative topics or comments
after they instantly locked a thread I made about skitarii codex vs the shitty deldar release.
hahahaha.
They have ALWAYS been notoriously bad. The Dark Elf boards were getting locked constantly even in the early 2000's on Druchii.
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new codex and DE don't suck ass anymore?
Time to unpack my Wyches from deep space storage (aka a box in my garage)
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So it took 3 years to get these back Finlay? :)
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Fast horse army that die in droves and have lethal shooting. I like them!
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So it took 3 years to get these back Finlay? :)
I don't enjoy playing trash tier codexes.