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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« on: November 29, 2016, 10:39:18 PM »
So I have been thinking about a list for the 2k mark and I came up with the following:

LEADERS
Knight Azyros (100) - In the battalion
- Artefact : Phoenix Stone
Knight Vexillor (200)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
Lord Castellant (100)
Lord Celestant (100) - In the battalion
- General
- Artefact : Phoenix Stone
- Command Trait : Legendary Fighter
Lord Veritant (120) 

UNITS
Liberators x 5 (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- Grandhammers : 1
Liberators x 5 (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- Grandhammers : 1
Liberators x 5 (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- Grandhammers : 1
Judicators x 5 (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow : 1
Judicators x 5 (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- Thunderbolt Crossbow : 1
Paladin Retributors x 5 (220)
- Starsoul Mace : 1
Paladin Retributors x 5 (220)
- Starsoul Mace : 1
Gryph-Hound x 1 (40)
Gryph-Hound x 1 (40)
Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers x 3 (100)
- Celestial Hammers

BATTALIONS
Warrior Brotherhood (140)
WOUNDS: 115 TOTAL POINTS: 2000 / 2000

The battalion has 2 of the heroes (marked in them, I wish the Veritant was an option there...) and all of the units bar the gryph hounds
it gives the following bonuses:
+1 Bravery near other units
Lightning Strike option for units
Re-roll 1's to wound when near 2 other units

Setup would be 2-3 units of Liberators and a unit of Judicators on the table with the Vexillor and Azyros (within 12" of the Vexillor) and the Castellant and Veritant with their gryph-hounds.
Preferrable huddle up on an objetive to secure it, while the Vex and Azyros keep save from shooting.
Give away (if possible) first turn (unless there is shooting coming your way that could devastate your deployed army or some fast movers. But they should hold their own.
In you turn when his playing field opened up:
- Vexillor picks up the Azyros to a place where you want your "alpha strike", when coming down a wave of energy will possible cause 3d damage already.
- Azyros then summons in a set of Retributors, Judicators and the Lord-Celestant.
- Shooting from judicators (getting reroll 1 to hit due to azyros, reroll 1 to wound from battalion) and the Lord-Celestant(on foot) will soften up any units / target unit
- Retributors will mob it up (not failing a 3" charge ofcourse)

You will still have the option to plunk "somewhere" the second unit of Retributors and/ or the Prosecutors for reinforcing a point or pickup on another objective.
And the Azyros will be in a great position to also let his lantern work blasting stuff in the next hero phase which could be potentially be the next in which also the Command ability for +1 to hit from the Lord-Celestant will make your Retributors nearby even more devastating for their new target.

Gryph hounds can harass and hold up units on the board or deny certain movement options (not ending within 3")


Notes:

Now I don't have a few models yet of which the Vexillor (who will be my next purchase), Lord Veritant and Lord-Celestant (on foot)
So I will swap out some options on the heroes field.
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth for the Veritant (Plus a gryph hound) and Lord Celestant
- getting the Lord Celestant (on foot) then:
Knight Venator for the Veritant (to snipe wizards) till the Veritant is there


thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 10:44:25 PM by StealthKnightSteg »
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 04:11:02 PM »
I have the Lord-Veritant, but I haven't used him in a game yet.  The warscroll doesn't make sense with a couple of his abilities.

I'm not overly keen on having chosen command traits and artefacts, especially duplicates.  It means you never see any variation, DEATH generals with the +! to the 6+ ignore wounds thing Death gets in effect giving everything a 5+ ward save.  I'd argue for points if you're choosing or a random roll for no points - anyway that's digressing from the topic

Since the Stormbringer pennant is used in the Hero phase, then the Knight-Azyros can be sent across the battlefield and use his lantern, also in the same hero phase.  Before doing that I'd argue using the Lord-Castellant's Warding Lantern on him first.   That way you get the teleport blast wave, and the Knight-Azyros's Lantern follows up.  If you get a chance to position him well, and get the luck with mortal wounds, you can take a cluster of heroes  (especially if they have the CHAOS keyword).

I'm not sure I'd bring in Judicators via Lightning Strike, they have a substantial amount of range and being taller than most troops, won't have difficult with line of sight, so well away from the fight picking off those last few wounds the Azyros hasn't done already especially with his reroll 1's to hit anything near him. .....wait I've just realised you have crossbow Judicators, yeah, I guess they do need to be teleported.  Given the choice I've got two units of both types, and the bow Judicators are just so much more effective

Gryphounds are great for summon blockers, not just by moving the range away from valuable units, but anything that does arrive within 10" of the gryphound, it can possibly alert a whole load of shooty units to have a free shot at the appearing unit.   Even people who have learnt that lesson the hard way now place stuff more than 10" away from the gryphound, which means their charge is even harder!

I'd also change the Prosecutors to having Hammer and shield, and one with a Grandaxe.  And bring them in via lightning strike, along with the retributors and Lord-Celestant, they have a formidable charge, and with the measuring from any part of the model, grandaxe is nasty as hell!

I'm guessing you're using starter set Liberators and Prosecutors, hence the twin hammers on the Prosecutors






Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 08:40:23 PM »
Awesome Oxycutor, about that Lantern thing I missed that part of being moved in the hero phase! That is even more devastating :)

And yes I was aiming for the Crossbow Judicators to follow in the Lightning strike due to their shorter range and making use of them straight away, bow variants will be down at setup near objective behind the liberator screen.

And yes the Liberators and Prosecutors are starterset, I will be swapping out 1 liberator per unit to give a Grand hammer with newer unit additions which should be inbound.
I'm not sure yet about the special weapon choise on the Prosecutors and I think going hammer/shield misses out on them for damage output.. I already have a set of Javelin variants (but need to paint them up also, so that would make my goal for completing models for this list even larger)

And what is it that doesn't make sense on the Veritant warscroll?
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2016, 03:26:20 PM »
Ok, check the warscroll for the Lord-Veritant.

The Bound in Service rule, the final section:   (I've added emphasis in bold)

In Addition, in your hero phase you can add 3 to the roll for the Lord-Veritant's Lantern of Abjuration if the Gryph-hound is within 6" of the enemy WIZARD


Lantern of Abjuration: A Lantern of Abjuration allows a Lord-Veritant to unbind spells in the same madder as a WIZARD

So, if you only get the benefit of the +3 in YOUR hero phase, then it's no use against unbinding anyway.   It would arguably make sense if the gryph-hound gave a benfit to the Sanction ability

Sanction: In your hero phase the Lord-Veritant may pray for Sigmar to saction his sorcerous foes.  If they do so, pick an enemy WIZARD with 7" and roll a dice.  An a roll of 4 or more the prayer is heard, and the WIZARD suffers D3 mortal wounds.


So, the warscroll has a useless ability on it, as it currently stands

As for Prosecutors - I've got enough to try out all the variations, and the dual hammers getting a re-roll to hit, isn't a massive damage dealer, even with both shooting phase and combat phase attacks.  The re-roll 1 on saves keeps them in the fight longer, and the grandaxe more than makes up for the re-roll to attacks, by having such a vast number of attacks.  I recently had a game, where there were 24 enemy models within 2" of him, so 24 attacks! With hit 3+, wound 3+ rend -1, that did a lot more damage than dual hammers would.   Obviously that was benefitting against horde mobs, the grandaxe is less effective against bigger troops, so you don't get as many attacks, in which case the grandblade or grandhammer might do.   Be warned, the wording of the grandaxe means it's not ideal on the prime!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 03:36:33 PM by Oxycutor »

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 10:37:34 PM »
Ah I see, yes I think they made a booboo on the wording for the bonus on the gryph-hound, should ofcourse say in "a" or "opponents hero phase" or even not mention a phase and just give the bonus when the unbinding is attempted.

update the app if you have it they already changed the wording (pdf version is not yet up to date)

new wording is:
Quote
...In addition, you can add 3 to the unbinding roll for the Lord-Veritant's Lantern of Abjuration if the Gryph-hound is within 6" of the enemy WIZARD

For any new Sets of Prosecutor's I'll toy around with this. Thanks for the feedback!

What strikes me is that this list build I thought up due a tactics part I saw (link here) is also used by the number one of the Blood & Glory event though in a little different setup (2 Azyros as only heros / leaders, buffed up Paladins units (10) (Rets and Prots), totally no unit/model out of the battalion restriction.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/12/02/blood-glory-the-winner/
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 10:41:20 PM by StealthKnightSteg »
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2016, 10:50:46 PM »
It's not far off what I run either. In 1500, I use a Knight-Vexillor and Knight-Azyros in a Warrior Brotherhood battalion, Bow Judicators, 5 Retributors and 5 Protectors.

In 2K I'll add a Lord-Celestant, and hadn't thought about expanding either of the Paladin units.

Pretty standard strategy to use the Azyros as a mailbomb.  Teleport him, open the lantern drop paladins in movement phase.

If I know I'll face a lot horde I'd swap Protectors for Decimators.


Have you ever tried Extremis chambers?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:58:16 PM by Oxycutor »

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 11:35:58 PM »
I haven't tried them yet, but in the new box that went on pre-order today are a set of Dracothian Guard and I'll be getting that.
The hammer dudes seem pretty strong, but I'm also impressed with the crossbowdudes.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline Oxycutor

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Re: 2k SE list with it's synergy, thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2016, 12:32:00 AM »
I have 4 Fulminators and 4 Tempestors in 2 units of 2 to make a Lighnting Echelon Battallion.  I've recently picked up 2 more to make Concussors, and I'll probably also pick up that bundle box before the end of the year, and make Desolators.

I have to say Dracothian Guard are really strong, the lightning breath on the Fulminators and Tempestors is horrific, and Fulminators on the charge can really kick backside.

I would bet the Concussors will be brutal in combat, maybe not as mental as a 6 man Desolator unit though!