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Author Topic: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time  (Read 185497 times)

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #100 on: August 20, 2014, 10:14:13 PM »
Good question. The source does not specify what they are. I doubt they are projectiles. Perhaps sacks? Which bags the question: what is the content?
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Offline Padre

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #101 on: August 20, 2014, 10:37:25 PM »
Content = gunpowder.

To effectively use a cannon you need three basic things: the cannon, the ball, the charge. No ... Four basic things: the cannon, the ball, the charge, the crew. No ... Five basic things: the cannon, the ball, the charge, the crew, and matchord ... and priming powder, and a linstock, and ... oh, you get the idea.

But powder is important. Could be in paper, or cloth - no matter. Once the touch-hole is pricked whatever is holding the powder is holed.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #102 on: August 20, 2014, 10:40:23 PM »
Notice the location. I should think, you would want to keep your powder dry.
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Offline Padre

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #103 on: August 20, 2014, 10:53:02 PM »
Yeah - location is not ideal. BUT the only alternative is not to have any powder. And without powder that makes a mockery of my previous assertion re the necessary three, no four, no five ... you get the idea.

I suppose alternatively they could be bags of swan shot / sangranel / case / burrel / partridge (call it what you will, and those terms are all too late re: RW history)?
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Offline S.O.F

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #104 on: August 21, 2014, 12:02:02 AM »
See that seems like a likely answer but for some reason I'm thinking that the use of powder bags, at least that well prepared in advance, is incorrect with the time frame of the picture (being a 15th century bombard and all). Powder bag usage I thought was a later invention/innovation much like how until the late 17th early 18th though the cannon crew were military men all the train to move, supply, and repair them in the field were non-military contractors.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #105 on: August 21, 2014, 07:21:51 AM »
Given that the raft is accompanied by two ships (one with its own, small guns), I should think the powder is stored there, just like the other gear needed for the bombard, but not present on the raft.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #106 on: August 21, 2014, 11:53:12 AM »
I found a picture (which I will use later), where the context (on dry land) strongly suggests that these are in fact sacks containing gun powder. Here, the sacks themselves are stored in a wooden box, which makes far more sense (and would do even more so on a raft). 
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Offline Padre

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #107 on: August 21, 2014, 12:28:03 PM »
You should have believed me the first time.

What's the point in me being omniscient if no-one ever believes what I say? I tell you, it's wasted on me. I should have picked omnipotence or omnipresence when I was given the choice. The former would have allowed me to make you all believe, even if I was wrong. The latter would have meant I could have tapped you on the shoulder and said 'boo'! (Not entirely sure how that last talent would actually help in the situation but it would be fun.)

When given a multiple choice question and one of the answers is 'bags', always tick 'bags'.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #108 on: August 21, 2014, 02:53:20 PM »
Or perhaps it is the case of a good cock coming out of a tattered bag.  :engel:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 02:58:41 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (19/08/14)
« Reply #109 on: August 24, 2014, 09:01:16 PM »
The Second Campaign against Marienburg (continued)

While building his Army List, Wilhelm III had to deal with two additional restrictions. None of the Knightly Orders had been prepared to offer a significant contribution. Some Grand Masters referred to the terrain, thinking it beneath their  knights to fight on foot; other complained about the lack of preparation time, or claimed to be unavoidably detained for other duties. But it is more likely that the significant financial interests of the Knightly Orders in Marienburg forestalled their participation. Various knights, however, participated on an individual basis, were grouped together under a new banner, and would form the nucleus of what would become the Reiksguard.
A more serious setback was the stubborn refusal of the Supreme Patriarch, Vincent of Bogenhafen, to allow any wizard taking part in the campaign. He claimed that, based on the Articles of Imperial Magic, the Colleges of Magic needed in this case to observe a strict neutrality, at least until it had been established by an independent court that Dieter IV had indeed illegally granted Marienburg its independence. Of course, the fact that Vincent was a close personal friend of Dieter IV and that his elevation to Supreme Patriarch was due to that Emperor’s support may not have been completely alien to that decision. Admittedly, Vincent had also maintained neutrality during the deposition of Dieter IV, but few Magisters would have supported the latter, given the losses the Colleges of Magic suffered during the Waaagh. Others attribute his stance to the "natural" scheming and intrigue of a "Trickster Wizard," because Vincent was a member (and Patriarch) of the Grey Order.

1.

The Supreme Patriarch Vincent of Bogenhafen in his study. Miniature from the Imperial Charter by Dieter IV acknowledging Vincent as the Supreme Patriarch. Vincent is still wearing the grey robes of the Patriarch of the Grey Order. Note the grimoires and tomes of Magic on the shelves, and the ubiquitous depictions of Emperor Dieter's coat of arms.


1. Vincent of Beauvais, Speculum historiale, trans. into French by Jean de Vignay (Bruges, c. 1478-1480). Royal 14 E. i, vol. 1, f. 3, British Library, London.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 08:38:41 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (25/08/14)
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2014, 02:12:13 PM »
The arrival of more troops could not go unnoticed, and soon tidings reached Marienburg, causing panic in the city. As the first Empire troops appeared near the city, the Directorate hastily ordered the gates closed and the walls manned, anxiously awaiting the impending assault. 


1.

The Empire Forces took various strategic positions around the city, where they deployed artillery and set up camps. 

2.

Note, in the right corner, a chest  with the same oblong objects as on the artillery raft, indicating that these may gun powder bags.



1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik II, p. 88 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.2, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
2. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik II, p. 222 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.2, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 08:41:57 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (10/09/14)
« Reply #111 on: September 11, 2014, 05:00:18 PM »
After securing the main accesses to Marienburg, the siege lines were extended to include the whole city from land. As indicated earlier, the siege works were often impeded by the soggy terrain and the many drainage canals.

1.



1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik I, p. 242 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.1, Burgerbibliothek, Bern
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 08:45:48 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (12/09/14)
« Reply #112 on: September 12, 2014, 07:29:40 PM »
Marienburg and its fortifications (the so called Vloedmuur) around the time of Wilhelm III.



1. View (from the northeast) of the city of Marienburg and its immediate surroundings crossed by numerous drainage canals. This represents the situation before the Great Flood in 2448 and the Riots in 2449. As a result of these events, the Vloedmuur (and indeed a large part of the city itself) was redesigned and extended into its current form.

Legend:
  • The Grendel (lock) and Grendelpoort: the entrance to the Mannaanspoort Sea. In case of war or spring tide, it can be closed by the Grendel, a wooden stockade, and ships will need to enter the city through  the Grendelpoort, which also houses the Harbour Master.
  • The Golfbergtoren (wave crest tower): a light house.  Above the tower note the "Crown Jewel" of Marienburg, the Cathedral of Mannaan, in the Tempelwijk.
  • Broekwaterpoort: leading to Broekwater and Almshoven, later walled up.
  • Kruittoren (gunpowder tower): used as main gunpowder depot, because it was furthest away from the city.
  • Westenpoort: gate to the Gisoreux road.
  • Nieuwe Toren (New Tower) or Kettertoren (Heretic’s Tower): used as depot for military equipment and as prison for heretics.
  • Strompoort: a complex of fortifications protecting the entrance of the Reik. If need be, naval access can be prevented by raising a heavy chain or boom.
  • The Garderobe: a latrine tower.  There is a story that, during the siege, Marienburgers defecated on any Imperial unlucky to be under the tower. Two close friends would have use the same latrine for this purpose, which would have given rise to the Westerland proverb "Met twee door één gat kakken" (Both shit through the same hole) i.e. inseparate friends. However, as the expression has been proven to have been used much earlier, the story is clearly apocryphal.2
  • The Oostenpoort: the main entrance to the city, leading to the Middenheim Road/Great North Road.
  • At various points, bricklined tunnels pierce the Vloedmuur, through which floodwaters can be pumped. These can be blocked by twin metal portcullises at each end of the tunnels.



1. Johannes Stumpf, Zürich, (early 16th century), Ms A 1, Bl 28ar, Zentralbibliothek Zürich.
2. The saying is depicted in Pieter Breugel's Flemish Proverbs (1559), Gemäldegalerie, Berlin.
 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 08:48:18 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (13/09/14)
« Reply #113 on: September 15, 2014, 12:56:00 PM »
In several places, the Empire siegeworks consisted of little more than rather crude palisades, which nevertheless proved to be very effective.

1.

Middenheim state troops repelling a Marienburg sally.


1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik II, p. 144 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.2, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 08:17:38 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (15/09/14)
« Reply #114 on: September 16, 2014, 07:56:45 PM »
The following drawing by a participant of the Second Marienburg Campaign offers a bird’s eye view of the siege, with the position of the camps of the various Empire forces. From left to right we see above the banners of Middenland, Hochland, Nordland, Averland, Ostland, Ostermark and Talabheim; below the banners of Dietrich von Bernau, Stirland (Haupt-Anderssen),  Talabecland, and Middenheim (with reversed colours). There are no banners of Nuln (the only troops the Elector Count of Wissenland sent), perhaps because these were under direct command of Dietrich von Bernau.

1.



1. Edlibach, Georg,  Edibach, Ludwig & Usteri, Johann Martin, Zürcher- und Schweizerchronik, p. 100 (1485-1532), Ms A 75, Zentralbibliothek Zürich.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 08:18:57 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (17/09/14)
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2014, 08:24:08 PM »
After the initial shock, panic in Marienburg subsided somewhat, since the Imperial forces seemed to prepare for a siege and not an imminent assault. As long as the Empire did not have the ability to blockade the city from the sea, Marienburg could be resupplied and would not be starved into surrender, even if they had to eat fish for breakfast, lunch and dinner.   

However, the numerous pilgrims trapped in the city were an extra drain on resources, which were already running low due to  the festival. Those pilgrims who had arrived with their own ships were, of course, eager to leave as soon as possible, but many could not or would not take additional passengers.  The Marienburg Directorate was particularly worried about the large number of pilgrims from the Empire, as a potential security risk - not without reason, as we have seen. However, they did not want to take any drastic measures, as these pilgrims were often long standing business partners and associates. The Directorate, therefore, sent an embassy to Dietrich von Bernau, with a threefold task: to inquire about terms and conditions to lift the siege, collect intelligence on the opposing troops, and, most importantly, secure free passage for the pilgrims.

1.

Dietrich von Bernau receiving the Marienburg envoys. To the right, the escort of Hochland light cavalry.

Receiving the delegation in the manor where he had set up his HQ, Dietrich von Bernau repeated the generous proposal the Imperial embassy had offered previously. The Marienburg envoys replied that they would refer these terms to the Directorate (both sides knowing the answer would be negative) and then immediately broached the subject of the pilgrims. The Empire was in fact in a similar position as Marienburg: Wilhelm III wanted neither civilians of the Empire nor of foreigners to be needlessly endangered, as this could cause frictions with the Elector Counts and foreign powers, and had instructed Dietrich von Bernau accordingly.  Thus, both sides quickly come to an agreement that all pilgrims could leave the city to return immediately to their place of origin. Specific measures were also agreed to ensure that the pilgrims would be unarmed and that neither side could use the free passage as an opportunity for attack.

2.

Imperial troops (banners Nuln, Bernau, Middenheim, Ostland and Talabheim) receiving a group of pilgrims (perhaps even the hapless men of Hans Rechberg). Note how a state trooper is selflessly providing comfort to a pilgrim in distress. Ah, the galant men of the Empire!



1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik III, p. 478 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.3, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
2. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik III, p. 448 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.3, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 08:28:41 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (21/09/14)
« Reply #116 on: September 28, 2014, 08:18:33 PM »
Once Marienburg was encircled by land, Empire forces moved to secure the surrounding hinterland and occupy strategic places.

1.

Empire forces marching into Klessen. Note the straggling pilgrim drinking from the fountain.


2.

To prevent the resupply of Marienburg, cattle from hamlets accessible by sea are driven away. The Westerland villagers are hiding in the woods.


1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik II, p. 147 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.2, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
2. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik III, p. 458 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.3, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 08:30:42 AM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (29/09/14)
« Reply #117 on: October 05, 2014, 05:00:26 PM »
Of vital importance was ensuring control over the fortified places Fort Bergbres, castle Tancred and Fort Solace.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 04:36:31 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (06/10/14)
« Reply #118 on: October 07, 2014, 10:37:26 PM »
Situated in the middle of the Gisoreux Gap, at the bridge over the river Ois, Fort Bergbres (i.e. Mountain Gap)  protects the most northern of the Grey Mountains passes. When Marienburg declared its independence, the commander and the garrison of the Border Keep had remained loyal to the Empire,  However, Wilhelm III suspected that, in spite of its embroilment in the Errantry War, Bretonnia might try to exploit the current situation in Westernland. In 1.597, Marienburg had been seized and occupied for five years by Bretonnia, which continued to lay claim on Marienburg and Westernland ever since.  Upon his ascension to the Imperial throne, Wilhelm III had already send some reinforcements to Fort Bergbres. The Border Keep was now further strengthened with troops and supplies to stop or delay as long as possible any action by Bretonnia through the Gisoreux gap.

1.

Imperial troops reinforcing Fort Bergbres.



1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik II, p. 225 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.2, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 04:38:24 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (08/10/14)
« Reply #119 on: October 08, 2014, 06:59:50 PM »
Tancred Castle lies in disputed territory to the north of Marienburg, and has been changing hands between the Empire and Bretonnia for the last 500 years. Recaptured for the Empire in the last years of Emperor Magnus, its current lord, Bernhard von Gilgenberg, had little trust in ability of an independent Marienburg to support him against Bretonnia. Faced with a superior force, he quickly submitted to the Imperial writ without resistance.

1. 

Bernhard von Gilgenberg negotiating with the Imperial troops at Tancred castle. His fears soon became reality, when Marienburg relinquished the area to Bretonnia, which promptly confiscated all of Gilgenberg's properties. Of course, it might have been a self-fulfilling prophecy, as his actions in the Second Marienburg Campaign will have done little to endear him to the Directorate.



1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik I, p. 225 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.1, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (09/10/14)
« Reply #120 on: October 14, 2014, 07:53:06 PM »
A note on local history: Landrel Barrow.

Not too far from Tancred Castle, one will find Landrel Barrow, “a large earth mound the size of a small hill in the March of Couronne. It is artificial and has a large stone gateway set in the side. Light never seems to penetrate far, and a chilling cold always radiates from it.
Every few years, though the precise time seems to be random, an army of skeletons and zombies marches out of the barrow. They follow the same route every time and completely ignore anyone who leaves them alone. As there are 4,373 of them (they ignored one scholar so much he was able to make an accurate count), most nobles are willing to ignore them. The few who are not meet bad ends, unless their friends can restrain them.
Many groups of adventurers have investigated the barrow. Most have come back, reporting finding nothing but a few cold and empty stone tunnels under the hill. One group found an undisturbed burial chamber, lost one man to the Wight lairing there, and emerged with some treasure. Some groups, however, have simply failed to emerge
.”1

2.

A careless hunting party has ventured too closely, attracting the attention of the Undead Army from Landrel Barrow.




1. WFRP Knights of the Grail, p. 72.
2. The Hours of Joanna I of Castile (c. 1500), Add MS 35313, f. 158v, British Library.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 04:42:41 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The history of the Empire as depicted in the art of the time (15/10/14)
« Reply #121 on: October 25, 2014, 02:32:04 PM »
The last fortification proved a harder nut to crack. Fort Solace (is) a small port with a population of just 310, built around a lighthouse along the north shore of the Manaanspoort Zee. It is a new town, founded after the destruction of Almshoven and its beacon on the opposite shore during the last Incursion of Chaos [in 2302]. Fort Solace is owned outright by the Wasteland Import-Export Exchange, and its governor is a 'Change employee. Ships reaching the Manaanspoort Sea at nightfall often stop here before making the final journey to Marienburg more rarely, if they plan to skip Marienburg altogether and sail directly to Norsca and Kislev. Fort Solace provides little more than basic services and goods not destined for the city-state are taxed heavily, since the Directorate prefers that all traffic pass through Marienburg.1

It was no real surprise, therefore, that the garrison did not accept even the generous  terms of surrender offered.  It seems, they also counted on supernatural support. First, most of the Empire gun powder got soaked by an extremely unexpected and local rainfall. And whenever the Empire forces tried to storm the castle, lightning and heavy rain showers thwarted their efforts. This obviously led to suspicions that Fort Solace had received help from a Celestial Wizard.


2.
   

Fort Solace, viewed from the south-east.
The lighthouse is situated in the tower to the right. The text reads: Von dem grossen Regen der zu Solten mit Zauberei gemacht waret (about the great rain made by magic at Solten).  Solten, the old name for Fort Solace, is derived from the Classical solidus, or solid gold coin, which also led to the word Sold or soldier’s pay. In this case, it probably refers to the taxes levied on ships that did not pass through Marienburg. Later, the port was renamed Fort Solace, from the Classical solacium (consolation), either in a kind of PR move, or reflecting the Marienburg view on those same taxes.




1. WFRP Marienburg. Sold Down the River, p. 9.
2. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik I, p. 226 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.1, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 03:59:12 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (25/10/14)
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2014, 09:33:21 AM »
That suspicion was increased by the following event. As the Empire forces were starting to settle for a longer siege, a crossbowman, more by chance than ability, managed to kill an enemy in the lighthouse tower. Immediately, rain and winds stopped. Soon, the gun powder was dry again, and the Empire artillery began pounding the walls.

1.


Fort Solace as seen from the northeast.
As so often, various diachronic events are depicted simultaneously.



1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik I, p. 226 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.1, Burgerbibliothek, Bern.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 03:57:42 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (28/10/14)
« Reply #123 on: November 01, 2014, 01:01:24 AM »
This apparently demoralised the garrison of Fort Solace so much, that they were prepared to negotiate their surrender. Although everyone in the garrison had heard rumours about a wizard among their ranks, this was emphatically denied by the command, and no solid evidence could be found. In Altdorf, Wilhelm III summoned the Supreme Patriarch, Vincent van Bogenhafen, and the Patriarch of all the Colleges of Magic, and confronted them with the reports of Fort Solace. Vincent of Bogenhafen pointed to the lack of proof, but he agreed to issue a specific decree, together with the Patriarchs, forbidding any Wizard to support the city of Marienburg in any way. 


1.  The surrender of Fort Solace






1. Diebold Schilling, Die Amtliche Berner Chronik I, p. 227 (1483), Mss.h.h.I.1, Burgerbibliothek, Bern
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:01:16 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (01/11/14)
« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2014, 08:43:23 AM »
Absolutely great stuff here!

-Z
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