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Galactic Conflict & Historical Games ... => Warhammer 40k Discussion => Topic started by: Aldaris on July 26, 2012, 01:24:25 PM
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http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/chaos-marine-qna-event-compilation.html (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/chaos-marine-qna-event-compilation.html)
I like what I am seeing.
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Wayland games has this up http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/pre-orders/games-workshop/august-2012/cat_1229.html for chaos daemons. Some of those are new, some finecast.
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Are nurgle and tzeentch friends?
I think they are, and tzeentch hates khorne, and slaanesh hates nurgle?
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Are nurgle and tzeentch friends?
I think they are, and tzeentch hates khorne, and slaanesh hates nurgle?
No, Nurgle and Tzeentch are deadly enemies. As are Khorne and Slaanesh.
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Damn.
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I think the newer, lamer fluff has them all enjoying tea parties with each other though.
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Key word in your sentence being lamer.
I probably wasn’t going to do it anyway, it’s just annoying that the two coolest gods hate each other. Plague marines, thousand suns, demons and some imperial guard, I mean cultists, in for good measure.
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Looks good. Goofy thing though is apparently the Soulgrinder is coming to Fantasy.
Those CSM basic marines look too cheap though.. the 5 man squad costs less than a 5 man scout squad, that doesn't seem right! It does make sense though when compared to Grey Hunters and the like. Hopefully this book will bring the Chaos back to CSM, and be less about being spiky black armoured marines with fewer options.
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http://www.totalwargamer.co.uk/warhammer-40k/warhammer-40000-pre-orders.html
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Yeah, that's the demon stuff. Certainly nice, but not as interesting as CSM to me.
:-D
What's interesting is that there will be some major balance changes for Demons in the WD, apparently. Some points costs and abilities being adjusted.
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can you not use demons with csm though? I thought thats what the first article said.
It's insanely expensive for 3 plastic flamers.
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Yeah, Demons and CSM are best buddies.
I'll see what's what when the new CSM dex drops, and then maybe get some demon allies.
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Since I play as Chaos marines and Chaos daemons, this is going to be an expensive time for me, even if I just get codexes and the new units! With Eldar and Dark angels on the horizon as well I can see me becoming poor!
From a screengrab I saw, screamers have been made considerably better, since their meltabomb style attack, while worse is actually of some use in hand to hand vs other things and is ap2! I wont be buying any plastic flamers, I have 6 painted metal ones, and a bunch more in bits, and another box still sealed in metal as well.
I am hoping beyond hope they give daemons something to help them compete against grey knights.
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Glad to see there looks like there's -some- incentive for taking plain old undivided marines. I've always been a fan of the more secular/undivided legions like the Night Lords, Red Corsairs, et cetera. I'm actually working on a Word Bearers side-project...
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Although Word Bearers are not exactly what I would call "secular"...
:-D
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Pretty undivided though. ^^
My current plan is to paint up a bunch of stuff that will probably still be alright when the new codex comes out - buckets of plain old tactical marines, a vindicator, a daemon prince, that sort of thing. Which leaves me with fun stuff like the new dread and chosen to paint when the codex comes out.
Incidentally, I like the plastic terminator lord kit... would modelling one up with dual lightning claws be a good idea?(haven't even read the new rulebook yet)
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The Lords are pretty hard to predict - if you want optimal weapons for him, I'd wait till the Codex drops. If you just want him to look cool Wolverine style go with the claws. They still kill 3+ save dudes dead.
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The Lords are pretty hard to predict - if you want optimal weapons for him, I'd wait till the Codex drops. If you just want him to look cool Wolverine style go with the claws. They still kill 3+ save dudes dead.
Fine in theory, but as soon as someone rocks up in 2+ save armour, with their own ap2 weapon you die. Every game I have seen and played in so far has had lords with various ap3 weapons get caught short by other lords in terminator armour.
I have a chaos lord with a pair of lightning claws, made from that kit. I can't honestly see him being used as a lord anymore. Even daemon weapons are only supposedly ap3, so they are out. Chainfists all round I think, that is certainly what I am going to be using.
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Fine in theory, but as soon as someone rocks up in 2+ save armour, with their own ap2 weapon you die.
Yes. That's whý I said what I said.
:happy:
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I hope I can make an affordable and playable 1k sons army.
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I hope I can make an affordable and playable 1k sons army.
They're playable now, although really difficult to use. And the ideal list looks nothing like you would expect a 1k sons army to look like (dreads, vehicles, oblits).
You might be interested in this (http://puppetswar.com/product.php?id_product=144).
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I hope I can make an affordable and playable 1k sons army.
Thousand sons are okay as they are now, I use them in my balanced list just fine. Perhaps a little expensive, but they are pretty good and can walk around not bothering with cover. In the world of 6th, with cover saves being generally worse, their guns become better still. The worst bit to the unit is the huge cost of the sorceror-champion, he is nearly as much as a proper HQ once you buy him a compulsory spell. Stick to Bolt, or Warptime for best results.
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My main concern is not so much the playability but the affordability. Current boxes for only 5 or 6 of them is ridiculously expensive. Rather they just come out with a kit to convert normal CSM.
I have come up with a few interesting builds for an all 1k sons army but due to the expensive models I have yet to pick it up.
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My main concern is not so much the playability but the affordability. Current boxes for only 5 or 6 of them is ridiculously expensive. Rather they just come out with a kit to convert normal CSM.
I have come up with a few interesting builds for an all 1k sons army but due to the expensive models I have yet to pick it up.
I thought the current box had 9 models in? It did when I bought them.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440209a&prodId=prod1095442 Nine models inc sorcerer £23.50.
Plastic normal marines
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440209a&prodId=prod1095439 10 models inc champion, special and heavy for £23.
You get far more points in the 1000 sons box too, and since really you shouldn't buy from GW direct you can get them even cheaper.
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Some of the starter set dudes, a Lord, 2 Chosen and a cultist.
http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/Gb39g.jpg (http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/Gb39g.jpg)
http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/cUE7j.jpg (http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/cUE7j.jpg)
http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/tEKBd.jpg (http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/tEKBd.jpg)
http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/fupWU.jpg (http://www.geekpics.net/images/2012/08/17/fupWU.jpg)
Pretty sweet.
:-D
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Rumored rules for the Hellbrute (aka Dreadnought):
I just want to clarify that while it is listed as having a Power Fist and not a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, because it is a Walker it does not suffer from the Unwieldy special rule, that's why it's simplified in the codex entry.
120 points
It's 12/12/10
Str 6, ws 4, bs4, i4
Multi-Melta / Power Fist (with inbuilt combi-bolter)
can swap the Multi-Melta for a butcher-cannon, or twin reaper auto cannons (which is pretty cool, since that's an entire riflemen in one arm, but with less range), twin-linked lascannon or a twin-linked heavy flamer.
can swap combi-bolter for a meltagun or heavy flamer
Has rampage
Mark of Khorne: Rage USR
Mark of Nurgle: 5+ restore a hull point OR repair immobilized / weapon destroyed at the start of a turn. Does not let it get back up after having been killed unlike Unholy Vigor.
Mark of Slaanesh: Sonic scream, gives it offensive/defensive grenades
Mark of Tzeench: flame weapons (if it has any) are +1 strength and -1 AP (heavy flamers are AP3... whaaaat)
Now THAT sounds awesome! Rampage plus rage plus two fists would make for a pretty damn cool Khorne model, and stuff like butcher cannons and, with MoT, S6 Ap3 heavy flamers, can be a very scary shooter as well.
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Hoping whatever is in the new starter set makes for a good unit or more to have as an ally for my Orks. Course I haven't even bought the new rules yet, so maybe that won't even be possible?
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Some new stuff:
Dragon Flyer - 12/12/10
2 butcher cannons, bs3, immune to shaken/stunned, can be locked velocity as normal. Flyer only, no hover/skimmer mode. Can vector strike at strength 10. Strafing run.
Because this might be misinterpreted I'm going to be really clear: It does not have "two firing profiles." It has 2 butcher cannons, and that's it. It does not have blasts of any kind. It is "BS4" against ground targets because of strafing run (go read it, it's a USR for details).
Terminators can be upgraded to chosen, getting +1 WS (5) and +1 wound (2), and fearless. They can take marks on top of that. It gets expensive.
- Interestingly enough, when upgraded they are troops if you take Abbadon, yet normal Terminators are Elites.
There are no "chaos storm shields,"
The best you can get is Mark of Tzeench to upgrade your 5+ invulnerable from Terminator armour to a 4+.
There is a piece of chaos wargear that gives a 4+ invulnerable, but it is not a storm shield it can just be added for characters. Yes it upgrades via mark of tzeench to 3+. No it's not available for sorcerers.
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When's the book out Aldaris?
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Pokemon dragon! Hooooooo
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Book will be out on 6th October apparently, preorders going up on saturday.
Faeit212 has a lot of pics and rules from White Dwarf:
http://natfka.blogspot.de/
My opinion on the new models: the Dragon looks nice (especially in the shot from above), the Raptors are amazing. Not sold on the Warp Talons, but that might be due to the paint job. Demon Engine looks freaking amazing in my opinion, both variants. The CC obliterators are terrible. Hate the faces. Could be fixed by swapping the heads for chaos terminator heads perhaps. Both the Sorcerer and the Aspiring Champion look great, and the Dark Apostle and Warpsmith are fantastic too. So overall I'm quite happy how they turned out.
As for rules, what I see so far I like. A huge Eye of the Gods like table, with mostly beneficial stuff. Psychic powers are a mixed bag, some very good, some quite meh, some plain fun (like the Tzeentch one that lets a friendly character roll on the Boons table). Marks and Banners look useful. Verhicle upgrades look useful. Special rules look useful. Hatred vs. Space Marines? Yes please.
So, I'm very much looking forward to actually reading the full book. Looks like my dear old Chaos force will be getting some serious love.
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I absolutely love the humans (traitor guard?) in Dark vengeance, but not the csm themselves so much. Not sure which to start!
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I just saw the cover of the new White Dwarf. I'm guessing that thing on the cover is a new Chaos Marine unit, possibly the Dragon I saw mentioned earlier. While I love the new cultists, that thing looks positively stupid. I've wanted to do a Chaos Marine army for a while, but that thing just makes me shake my head. It's probably going to be a must field thing as well, one of those things everyone will bash Chaos Marine players for fielding, but they are stupid to not field it.
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They are up for advance orders now! I hate all of them.
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I don't really get the hate, except for the cc oblits. Those are terrible. All others range from "like" to "love" for me. The Demon Engine for example reminds me very much of a bigged up mechanical version of a Juggernaut. Very appropriate in my opinion.
*shrugs*
But there's no accounting for different tastes I suppose. Overall, I'd rate the model release as a whole at about 3.75/5.
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I see the similarities between it and the Juggernaught, but it just doesn't look good to me. The neck is too long and the head to tiny, the body is too bulbous. Sure it's chaotic, but something can't just look chaotic for the sake of being chaotic, to me it has to look good and from these pictures they just don't look good. I'll wait until I see an actual model before I pass final judgment on them. I know I didn't like the new Empire Gryphon when I first saw pictures of it, I also thought it's head was too small. After getting it and assembling the kit, I find I like it. This could be the case with this as well.
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Gw tend to do an awful job painting new models to look good too.
But from what I've seen im on delthos' side not aldaris .
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Definitely not a fan of all the new Demon Engines. The changes are just seeming too much and too different from how CSM used to feel right now. The cultists are indeed very awesome, the rest will likely take some getting used to.
I suppose having a huge point of difference over normal marines and guard etc. should be embraced though.
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I like the new look except of the Pokemon Dragon with the icy cold gaze......(I know that is Jugioh but I use the terms interchangeable).
The Frogefiends are ace and I like that chaos is taking steps to look more chaotic instead of....uhhh we are the evil chaos overlords...see we have hair knots and therfore...are evil. I never ever will get why the evil guys have those hair knots dark eldar, chaos, orks.....why?
The cultists are ace, the forgefiends are ace as are the chars. Spikes are the 40k skulls it seems.
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+1 Fandir. Pokemon is crap, rest varying degrees of awesome. Well except the CC Oblits, they're just average.
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Yeah, I'm not 100% sold on the Dragon either... I certainly don't hate it, but it doesn't really scream "buy me!" either. I would have preferred a plastic Hellblade or Helltalon as the flyer option in the book, with slight rules adjustments from the FW versions perhaps.
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I really like the raptors.
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Those are competing for my "favourites of the new release" spot as well. Love the clearly visible pre-heresy armor pattern coupled with the chaos additions.
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Well I have preordered mine. I quite like the pokemon dragon and the other daemon engines, even if the later do look suspiciously the same shape as Tervigons/Tyranofexes.
Then again, I quite like Pokemon, it reminds me of being a kid!
Not especially loving the new combat oblits or the normal raptors. The ones with claws are nice. To be honest I am hoping I can get away with reusing my already vast chaos army without too many additions. Only time will tell.
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Oh dear, that new chaos stuff is not good at all!
But I basically hate all 40K chaos stuff, so maybe that's why.
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I just love the Angron model. All the new Forgeworld stuff is wonderful. So glad it's coming out before I have kids to suck away all my income!
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Sig, you just say I'm buying it for little Jimmy so he has an army to play. Never mind the fact that little Jimmy is only 6 months old!
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Hah my wife's already onto me over stuff like that. I got a high elf army when she showed a vague interest in painting so she could "have her own models to paint".
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Will Ahriman be in the Chaos Codex? Any news on this?
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Will Ahriman be in the Chaos Codex? Any news on this?
Yes. Full rules are not yet known, but he's a lvl 4 Psyker, and he can cast up to 3 wytchfire powers a turn. He can also give D3 units infiltrate as his personal warlord trait I believe.
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Thanks for the intel.....Thousand sons are from the background so tastilicious.....maybe some day....some day a bit of chaos.
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Hmmm. Still not sure about the direction I want to go with this.
Obviously my current army will need some serious restructuring, but in what direction remains to be seen. I can see changing my basic fluff up. It has always been a bit painful for me to completely skip Papa Nurgle because of my Tzeentchian bosses. Perhaps I'll change those up to Khorne - that would allow me both Tzeentch and Nurgle followers and only exclude Slaanesh, which I currently don't use anyway. Although Noise Marines do look rather tasty, with their salvo 2/3 sonic blasters. Decisions, decisions...
Big squads of Marines look pretty good actually from what I can see. I special per 5, and a points drop to boot. Say, 15 Marines with MoK and a PF champ, that's a LOT of attacks on the charge, and if you make 'em veterans of the long war that includes hatred: sapce marines - and they could still carry 3 meltas at a reasonable price. Might be worth a look.
Bikers, now that could be an interesting option again as well. Rumored cost of 70 for 2+champ, and 20 more for each bike, that's a pretty significant points drop if true. If they have nice options they might well be worth a look. T6 with MoN for example is not to be sniffed at.
Cultists could be nice just as cheap objective holders in the back - 50 for 10 is basically free. Increase it to 20, throw in a couple upgrades like autoguns and 2 heavy stubbers and they're still cheap at about 120 and might actually contribute something. Or make it a big squad of 35 with MoK and cc weapons, throw in some fearless rabble rouser (if that's available) and charge 'em forward. Could be fun as well.
Berzerkers. If I still want them they'll actually need a Raider or scout / infiltrate this time around, because Rhinos are now worthless when it comes to delivering assault units. We'll see. They might be competing with possessed for a seat in the Raider if those are good in the same role and reasonably priced.
Forge Fiends/Maulerfiends: a standard Forgefiend with 2 Hades Autocannons sounds juicy, 8 S8 shots a turn with rerolls to wound / armor pen once a game, even it it's only BS3. Maulerfiend is REALLY quick to get into combat apparently. Still only AV12 so I am a bit undecided.
A squad of havocs will almost definitely be included, propably with 4 missile launchers with Flakk missiles. Looking at the old school Forge World missile launchers for conversion fodder.
And as for HQs, I'll really need to see the codex before I can decide on any of that.
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Well well well. Had an opportunity to take a good long look at the Dex, and my gut reaction is mixed leaning to positive. Some things in there make me sad, some make me very happy indeed.
I've already fooled around with it a bit and arrived at the skeleton of a nice and reasonably fluffy Khorne warband:
HQ:
Chaos Lord, Mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption (4++), Bike, Demon Weapon (with +2S AP2, Demon weapon extra attacks and -1 WS and BS, and Rage), Meltabombs
Troops:
20 Cultists, autoguns, 2 heavy stubbers
20 Cultists, pistol+ccw, 2 flamers (well, I have those 40 from the starter boxes, so I might as well use them as they are for now)
5 Chaos Marines (includes champ, every squad now has a champ in the base cost), Plasma, Combiplasma on champ, Rhino with Havoc Launcher and Combiplasma
5 Chaos Marines, Plasma, Combiplasma on champ, Rhino with Havoc Launcher and Combiplasma
8 Chaos Marines (exchange bolter for ccw), Melta, Combimelta on champ, PW for the champ, Rhino with Dirgecaster (enemies within 6" can't overwatch)
Elites
8 Chosen, 3 Plasma, 2 Melta, champ has combimelta, Power Weapon and meltabombs, Rhino with Dirgecaster
Fast Attack
7 Bikers, Mark of Khorne, Icon of Wrath (furious charge + reroll charge distance), veterans of the long war (hatred vs. all Marines), 2 meltas, PW on champ. Those will be joined by the Lord on bike.
Heavy Support
Forge Fiend (2 Hades Autocannons, 1 Ectoplasma Cannon)
8 Havocs, 4 Missile Launchers, extra Flakk missiles
Vindicator with Demonic Possession and combi bolter
That should be slightly over 1900, so I can add some more stuff, and I have already indulged in some frills and frivolities. :-)
That's a bit more than 40 Marines, 8 of which are riding bikes, 40 Cultists, 6 vehicles and a metric ton of melta and plasma (counting combis it's currently 9 plasma and 7 melta I think). Me like.
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Why the slightly negative reaction, aldaris?
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Why the slightly negative reaction, aldaris?
Because some of the stuff I was fond of in the old book was removed/made worse. For example, There are just 2 Demon Weapons in the Armory, and one is Khorne only (the axe I am using in the list above). Granted, it is a pretty damn spiffy axe, but my Tzeentch Disc Lord with Demon Sword is going to gather a lot of dust the coming years. Precision deepstrike to icons is gone. Stuff like that. But it certainly looks like a fun and competitive book, so I shouldn't complain!
I look forward to using bikers and huge Demon Engines with homungous gatling guns and hordes of unwashed cultists with bad attitude and worse personal hygiene. it will be great.
:-D
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Cultists look useable, but I've read Dark Apostles are terrible, confirm/deny? Makes or breaks getting back into chaos since I do Word Bearers.
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Nah, Dark Apostles aren't terrible IMO. They're "small" HQs, so only 2A and 2W, But they come with Bolter, Pistol, Power Maul, 4++, Zealot and some other, minor stuff, as well as access to Marks and Wargear, while barely breaking the triple digits.
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Seems like a pretty light list Aldaris. Only takes a turn or two of shooting to remove those smaller chaos marine units while they themselves don't really pack enough fire power to do too much. Not many things for shooters to target in terms of vehicles either, and all of them are very soft.
Seems like everything is based around that beastly biker unit and the chosen, though their rhino is as good as dead on turn one.
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Well, those 2 smaller CSM units are cheap, score, sit in a Rhino and have decent firepower with 3 Plasma available to them. The other units aren't really small at 8 dudes, at least in my opinion. Plus, there is a pretty decent amount of medium to long range, high S fire available in HS.
What do you suggest? As I said, this is merely playing around, so I'm very open to ideas; plus there's also about 100 points open atm which could be increased to 200 easily by cutting some fat. I definitely like the bike unit though, that seems VERY punchy. The Lord alone can potentially dish out 12 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge. I also like the look of my HS, at least the FF and the Havocs seem like they really should be there.
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I figured the cultists would be scoring units. A unit of 8 chaos marines isn't really all that big. Lacking any FNP or ward, they are two turns from gobbled up, and one turn of shooting and an assault phase from being destroyed. My worry with the rhino squads is that I am assuming they are going to sally forth to take objectives. The problem becomes, once they hit no mans land, they are going to have their vehicle popped and be left to eat fire with only 5 and 8 wounds to hold them.
You do have plenty of return fire, but you lack volume fire against infantry armies.
I am more of a fan of taking plenty of low cost chaos marines and using cover to move on objectives while shooting and snap firing, assaulting at the finish.
But then again, I am not really one to make anything but suggestions!
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100 points and only 2 wounds with no psychic powers or combat ability? Nah, I'll pass. You'd think hating on marines for 10,000 years would be motivation to bring an AP3 weapon. Bummer. Chaos melee units don't need buffs (guessing that zealot copies a chaplain's buff) to shine. I'd much rather the khorne lord or a 60 point sorc.
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guessing that zealot copies a chaplain's buff
Hatred and Fearless, IIRC. It's in the main book. He also shares his leadership out 6" and allows him and anyone in his unit to reroll boons rolls.
And yes, I am preferring a Lord or Sorc as well.
@Phil: 8 Marines is plenty for a squad in my experience, especially in a Rhino. Style difference I guess, but big foot units get very expensive very fast, and are a lot more vulnerable I feel - although it's certainly a viable option. 6 10 man CSM squads run 140 each naked, that's 840. Up the numbers to 15 each you look at 205. 1230 points naked. Say, 40-50 points in upgrades per squad, that's about 1500... but you'd have 90 Marines advancing on you, which WOULD be intimidating... :-)
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So, I've been playing around some more, and also coming back to the idea of including some IG as allies - Blood Pact!
I also like the idea of running not one, but 2 biker units. One dedicated to Khorne, the other led by a Nurgle Sorcerer.
Not easy to fit all that, make something reasonably hard and keep to the fluffy numbers as much as possible, but this is what I've come up with so far. Still only playing around... it's a bit light on models.
Chaos Space Marines - Primary Detachment
HQ:
Chaos Lord
Veteran of the Long War, Bike, Mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption (4++) , Axe of blind Fury - 160
Mr. Choppy-choppy, leading the Khorne Bikers. He has 7-12 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge.
Chaos Sorcerer 160
Bike, Mark of Nurgle, +2 Mastery Levels, Aura of Dark Glory (5++)
Nurgle Biker Boss. Not yet decided if I want the whole lore of Nurgle or if I should go for some other lore too.
Troops:
8 Chaos Space Marines
Melta, CCWs, Power Weapon+CombiMelta on the Boss, Mark of Khorne, Rhino - 216
8 Chaos Space Marines
Melta, CCWs, Power Weapon+CombiMelta on the Boss, Mark of Khorne, Rhino - 216
Fast Attack:
7 Biker
Veterans of the long War, Mark of Khorne, 2 Melta, Icon of Wrath, Melta Bombs - 216
6 Biker
Veterans of the long War, Mark of Nurgle, 2 Melta, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs - 212
Heavy Support:
Forge Fiend
2 Hades Autocannons, 1 Ectoplasma Cannon - 200
Allies - Blood Pact (IG)
HQ:
Company Command Squad
4 x Plasma guns, Chimera with Heavy Flamer - 165
Troops:
Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad - 3 Flamers
Infantry Squad - Autocannon
Infantry Squad - Autocannon - 165
Fast Attack:
Vendetta Squadron
1 x Vendetta - 130
Heavy Support:
Manticore - 160
2000 total on the nose. :-)
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How do you get three HQ? Are you jumping up to the second FOC? And 3 troops at that point level?!?! Noooooooo!
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Allies. 2 HQs from CSM, 1 HQ from IG. And it's actually 5 troop choices.
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My only real criticism would be that I think you need more MEQ scoring bodies. You've got 25 GEQ and 16 MEQ, I just don't think that's enough at 2k. My current 2k list has 30 MEQ as scoring and 10 of those are bikes (T5) and I think that's on the low side.
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Allies. 2 HQs from CSM, 1 HQ from IG. And it's actually 5 troop choices.
Wait, you don't get a bonus HQ do you? You pull from your FOC. Likewise, you alre limited on the number of allied units. Three is more than allowed.
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My only real criticism would be that I think you need more MEQ scoring bodies. You've got 25 GEQ and 16 MEQ, I just don't think that's enough at 2k. My current 2k list has 30 MEQ as scoring and 10 of those are bikes (T5) and I think that's on the low side.
That's what I meant when I said low on bodies. A bit of a problem, since more scoring bodies means less fire support... tricky. Perhaps I'll try it the other way around, with IG as primary detachment. I'll give this some more thought, but I'd really like to make those two bike units work.
Wait, you don't get a bonus HQ do you? You pull from your FOC. Likewise, you alre limited on the number of allied units. Three is more than allowed.
Nope. You ought to read up on the allies rules.
Allies get a separate FOC. 1 mandatory HQ, 1 mandatory troop. Optional: 2nd troop, 1 Elite, 1 FA, 1 HS.
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Hmmm, I'll have to reread that. Sounds completely retarded if thats the case. I never use them so have never had to take a second look.
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Sounds completely retarded if thats the case.
Actually, it opens up the game considerably. Almost everyone bar Nids can take Allies in some form or other, and it's a blast playing with the possibilities this offers.
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I'd look at trading in a mastery level to fill out the marine squads first. Then I'd probably trade in the flamers on the platoon command squad for another marine. Filling the two squads out to 10 and adding an extra special to each would probably be my first priority.
Also, I don't have the rules in front of me, but did you pay a fair whack of points for the plasma on the Forgefiend? If you took another Hades instead, would that free up points? Not sold on a single plasma shot, even if it is str 8 (which it is right? think I read that somewhere...)
Even having another 4 bodies would help shore up your scoring. If you needed more points, maybe drop Veterans of the Long War from the Nurgle bikes?
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It isn't the allied portion I dislike, it is the free FOC addition. So if you chose not to include additional units, you are essentially limiting yourself.
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I'd look at trading in a mastery level to fill out the marine squads first. Then I'd probably trade in the flamers on the platoon command squad for another marine. Filling the two squads out to 10 and adding an extra special to each would probably be my first priority.
Also, I don't have the rules in front of me, but did you pay a fair whack of points for the plasma on the Forgefiend? If you took another Hades instead, would that free up points? Not sold on a single plasma shot, even if it is str 8 (which it is right? think I read that somewhere...)
Even having another 4 bodies would help shore up your scoring. If you needed more points, maybe drop Veterans of the Long War from the Nurgle bikes?
Good suggestions I think, although the math doesn't quite work. The plasma on the FF costs 25, and that's his only option on top of the Hades Autocannons. He can't take a third of those, sadly (also, it's a plasma CANNON shot S8. Blast). To shore up the Marine squads and add a special to both would mean 80 points... considerable. Let's see what we could drop.
-1 Mastery level - 25 (although that's already painful). Flamers on CCS - 15. Dropping vets on the Nurgle bikers would only yield 6... that's still 34 points to cut. I don't see 'em to be honest... will have to give this some more thought.
Another possibility would be to drop something bigger and add a Plasma Vet squad in another chimera, but that's 170... that would mean dropping the fiend or the Manticore, and I'm light on long range fire as it is.
It isn't the allied portion I dislike, it is the free FOC addition. So if you chose not to include additional units, you are essentially limiting yourself.
It's a free FOC addition you cannot use for your primary detachment, so that doesn't really apply. Plus, those additional slots have additional mandatory requirements as well.
But can we discuss 6th edition in general somewhere else? The rules have been out for a couple of months, it's not like this is news.
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Very tough choice... maybe even losing a Nurgle bike, though you did say those were dirt cheap, what, 20 points base now? SM bikes are 25 and I'd bet they're cheaper than that by at least 2 points. I don't know.. but I think you could trade in the combis on the marine squads for the actual specials if it's like the SM codex, they're the same cost.
I honestly don't see a problem with losing a mastery level, I'd much rather not trade in the Fiend or Manticore if I could help it! You're right about low long range fire.
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In the configuration I have Nurgle bikes run 27 points per bike, for T6 and hatred: all Space Marines.
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I reckon I'd lose a bike. Is the nurgle squad really for combat? If they are, the excess mastery on the sorc feels like a waste. They're a tar pit anyway, not all that much killing power is there? Even with hatred, you've just got a sorc, a power champ who will probably end up doing one CR on the charge as he will challenge, and 5 regular biker attacks... not very exciting! I guess the sorc will be taking debuffs/buffs rather than Witchfire if he's heading into combat.
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It isn't the allied portion I dislike, it is the free FOC addition. So if you chose not to include additional units, you are essentially limiting yourself.
I don't reckon the potential of having an extra choice on the FOC is going to make too much of a difference, especially as you still have compulsory HQ and Troop on the Allies FOC. Not to mention that not all allies work well together.
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Well, one could just make an ugly spam list I suppose. Light on bodies, but boy, is it heavy on firepower.
HQ
Abbadon 265
Elite
5 Termies, 4 x CombiPlasma, 1 HF 182
Troops
5 Chosen, Rhino, 4 x Plas 185
5 Chosen, Rhino, 4 x Plas 185
5 Chosen, Rhino, 4 x Plas 185
5 Chosen, Rhino, 4 x Plas 185
5 Chosen, Rhino, 4 x Melta 165
5 Chosen, Rhino, 4 x Melta 165
HS
ForgeFiend, Hades ACs 175
ForgeFiend, Hades ACs 175
6 Havocs, 4x Reaper AC 128
2000
That isn't fun or interesting, but it should kill Marine lists stone dead.
Now, back to serious deliberations about fun and cool stuff.
:-D
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Well, one could just make an ugly spam list I suppose.
Now I feel sick!
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Now I feel sick!
So do I. But it is occasionally liberating to contemplate naughty things without actually doing them.
:wink:
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It isn't the allied portion I dislike, it is the free FOC addition. So if you chose not to include additional units, you are essentially limiting yourself.
You can instead just use a second FOC chart though Philly. I much prefer using this to allies and it can be miles better!
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This could be a pretty good IG / Chaos combination. IG is the primary detachment in this variant, for FOC reasons:
Blood Pact (IG):
*************** 1 HQ ***************
CCS, 4 x Plasma, Chimera w/Heavy Flamer
- > 165
*************** 3 Troops ***************
Veteran Squad
3 x Plasma, Chimera w/Heavy Flamer
- > 170
Veteran Squad
3 x Plasma, Chimera w/Heavy Flamer
- > 170
Infantry Platoon:
PCS, Autocannon
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
- > 160
*************** 2 Fast Attack ***************
1 Vendetta
- > 130
1 Vendetta
- > 130
*************** 1 Heavy Support ***************
Manticore, Heavy Flamer
- > 160
Imperial Guard : 1085
Chaos Space Marines (Allies):
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Chaos Lord, Veteran, Mark of Khorne, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil of Corruption, Bike
- > 160
*************** 2 Troops ***************
8 Chaos Space Marines, Melta, CombiMelta, Power Weapon, Rhino
- > 184
8 Chaos Space Marines, Melta, CombiMelta, Power Weapon, Rhino
- > 184
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
7 Khorne Bikers, Mark of Khorne, 2 x Melta, Icon of Wrath, Veterans
- > 211
*************** 1 Heavy Support ***************
ForgeFiend, 2 Hades ACs
- > 175
1999 total. Thoughts?
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I have been digging through the new book. I really like it. Seems well balanced and interesting. Not sure why they put power fists on models rather the dreadnoght CCW. No difference in the rules really.
Great options and well balanced, though the lack of demon weapons is odd. Ass is the lack of cult abilities for terminators and lord level characters. Seems like an unusual omission.
Quick question though, the mauler fiend has 3 attacks right? two on the profile and an extra one for the two power fists. Likewise, how does the power scourge affect the defilers? Do they just get a generic extra attack or does the power scourge roll separetly?
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I have got about half way through the book Philly, and I have to concur. I imagine it has powerfists for the sake of simplicity and that they will phase out DCCW in the new books.
So far my big hate is that a large amount of my terminator models are illegal due to a seemingly random rule where you can only have one upgrade unless you are a champion. So its either a fist or combi weapon now. Otherwise I have very few complaints. I am not sure why the majority of the chaos marines are easier to kill than normal marines, since they dont have an equivalent of ATSKNF unless you go for Veterens of the Long war.
You only really need the axe of killing everything anyway Philly. Or just field Kharne and be done. Hes cheap enough, and very killy with his super fast power axe! If you happen to not play as Khorne, the Murder sword seems poor value over say a powerfist and the Maul thing isn't much cop either.
I read that as the Maulerfiend getting three attacks, otherwise its got less attacks base than the shooty one! Ive not read the power scourge yet, so can't comment.