Topic: AoS: optimal (Empire) army composition

[iatroblast]

I'd say the multi-wounded models are probably the best choice for AoS. If that's true, how relevant are units like State Troops, Empire Knights, Black Ark Corsairs or Orcs.. Do they stand a chance since we saw a picture of good ol' flagellants along Eternals?
But more importantly, is a typical 8th edition Empire list competitive in AoS? I'm asking cause i'd like to get an idea on which units we should go after. thanx

[Dosiere]

I honestly don't know how to respond since nothing is really good or bad anymore.  It completely depends on what your opponent is putting down.  In general, AoS encourages you to put the most elite models on the table though, so I wouldn't bother bringing things like state troops to a game.  A solid wall of greatswords backed up artillery and every DGK you can muster is a good start.

[iatroblast]

I saw some lists on a forum, from a local AoS tournament. They looked quite awesome, and probably quite difficult for similar ones to play in 8th edition. Just to give you an idea, there was a list with 15+(!) blood Knights, 10(!!) tomb king chariots-- do i have to say more?(ouch), another one with 26(!) chaos warriors, Hellcannon, etc, and another with 15 chaos knights, 3 chariots (they seem a few compared to the above, don't they?) and some more things...
IMO, they could even put a Sigmarine army to shame.
How do you even make it to the 3rd round against more than 15 Blood/Chaos Knights?!! Are State Troops or Empire Knights still a valid choice for AoS? I'm lucky enough to own Valten on horse, but is he worth it to include a unit of Knights?

Unfortunately, the Sudden Death objectives, which at first i found a good idea to even the odds... now i think they can easily backfire spectacularly, putting you in an even worse position, and as such contributing to greater imbalance

[SoonerSox]

My list has evolved into taking as many multi wound models as I can. Then supporting with defense (mystic shield) and healing (priests and life wizards). Empire has a major advantage in its ability to heal. This encourages the strategy to try to outlast your opponent while you grind them down. Also avoid battle shock at all costs.

Units that have really shined are DGK (4 wounds, need 2 to die for battleshock), great swords (if you take more than 10, have a hero nearby for the hit bonus), Warrior Priests (Hammer of Sigmar and Healing).

Steam tanks are better now as a ranged unit. Try not to get caught in melee unless you have some good healing to back it up.

Knights are a little under whelming now. Great swords are better hammers than Knights now. Although Knights require 2 to die I order to take battleshock.

Luthor Huss is disappointing. Use him like a buffing WP, his once per game ability is fools gold.

Cannons are still really good with 1D6 dmg. I've had mixed results with Helblaster.

Melee state troops are not good at all. Missle state troops are fantastic if running the Detachment organization with a General lending Hold the Line command.

I'm trying a war altar tonight and haven't tried any of the other wagons or super heroes (like Karl). I recently got a Valten but haven't built him yet. I can say it has been difficult to find a spot for the offensive heroes (like grandmaster) so I wonder how Valten will do.

Overall buffing DGKs with Hammer of Sigmar, Mystic Shield and healing has been the most effective tactic. Just take a couple of cannons and a steam tank to take out linchpin monsters like thunder tusks, dragons etc.

[SoonerSox]

I wanted to also point out that priest prayers cannot be unbound while a priest can still unbind wizard spells. This is a pretty big advantage although priest spells have a much shorter range. I typically do all my unbinding with the priests that have to be in the thick of it while keeping my life wizards out of unbind and missile weapon range. Shadow wizards are good as well. A miasma on the opposing unit combined with a mystic shield (presumably from your life wizard) on the good guys, can really neuter the opponents attacks.

[Dosiere]

I saw some lists on a forum, from a local AoS tournament. They looked quite awesome, and probably quite difficult for similar ones to play in 8th edition. Just to give you an idea, there was a list with 15+(!) blood Knights, 10(!!) tomb king chariots-- do i have to say more?(ouch), another one with 26(!) chaos warriors, Hellcannon, etc, and another with 15 chaos knights, 3 chariots (they seem a few compared to the above, don't they?) and some more things...
IMO, they could even put a Sigmarine army to shame.
How do you even make it to the 3rd round against more than 15 Blood/Chaos Knights?!! Are State Troops or Empire Knights still a valid choice for AoS? I'm lucky enough to own Valten on horse, but is he worth it to include a unit of Knights?

Unfortunately, the Sudden Death objectives, which at first i found a good idea to even the odds... now i think they can easily backfire spectacularly, putting you in an even worse position, and as such contributing to greater imbalance

Honestly, if you are trying to play tournaments with AoS and without a great comp system you're doing it wrong.  Now, if we were discussing what list to build using a specific comp packet we might have something to talk about.  Essentially though if you are playing AoS RAW the ONLY thing that matters is how powerful a model is.  Empire doesn't do so great here since other armies have much more elite models to choose from.  The only thing I can think of is DGKs that can really hold their own.  Since the base game uses only model count, the most powerful models in your army are the only thing you are going to want to use.  If I were playing AoS competitively (why?) I would put down every war machine I have (about 15) and all my engineers (6), backed up by wizards (7) and a bunch of DGKs.  I would throw my two generals on griffons in to try to hunt down any enemy war machines and just go at it.  I would never put down any state troops, knights, etc...

Now, if you are playing someone who is putting down a more normal army, then you can respond in kind and start putting down these things.  But if someone puts down 15 Blood Knights there really is no option but to take 15 cannons with engineers and just let them go for sudden death since there is nothing that can really compete model per model with that.