Topic: Empire arcane journal wishlist

[GoblinGreenBases]

I'm curious as to what you all think will show up in our Arcane Journal.

I'd really like to see Swordsmen pop up.  Maybe give them a 6+ Ward Save against non-magical melee attacks and WS 4.

I think they'll flesh out some Knightly Orders too.

[lcmiracle]

Wrote this on another thread, but I hope they would lean on the cults and have a "Cult Crusader" list so you can do Crusaders of X; I think given the factions they set up in the rulebook, it'd be Sigmar, Ulric, and Taal, and one side can take units from the other side and give them new rules and prayers for each army. It's basically the old Middenheim/Ulric list expanded combined with the Crusading Knights & Knightly Orders from Citadel Journal & WD. Ulrican core can give their state troops +1 WS, stubborn, and the ability to accept challenge as rank-and-files as upgrade as a stand in for Warriors of Ulric and Wolf-Kins, for example. And like the Knightly Orders from WD#310, give us the option to choose from a handful of more special rules for Empire Knights & IC. Also given the lore description in TOW, they will probably just give a wizard with elementalism an upgrade to represent Taal, if they do this.

Going by the current format of the arcane journals, I think we will only have two army lists. By combining cults and knightly order, I hope we can have another list that focuses on rebels or self-proclaimed kings at the like -- such as Sudenland, which is shown on the map of the Old World but is not included in any of the four claimaints' territories. So hopefully we can see mercenaries for this second list, like the "Bretonnian Exiles", where they can add stuffs like Ogres and Halflings.

[Gorim]

Considering we only get two lists, I assume Marienburg and Middenheim. They are releasing too little new miniatures, to pull off a "Taal army".

[Clymer]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they created something totally new and unpredictable. But just going by precedent from earlier editions, I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a gunpowder and engineering focused army along with a re-release of the engineer on mechanical steed, a crusader army with a re-release of the war altar, and maybe some kind of infantry focused army that makes Greatswords 0-1 in core.

[GoblinGreenBases]

Considering we only get two lists, I assume Marienburg and Middenheim. They are releasing too little new miniatures, to pull off a "Taal army".

It's interesting that the Forces of Fantasy section for the Empire features a Marienburg army.

[lcmiracle]

Considering we only get two lists, I assume Marienburg and Middenheim. They are releasing too little new miniatures, to pull off a "Taal army".

I don't expect them to release separate Middenheim army nor Marienburg army precisely because they won't be releasing new miniatures. Bretonnia got the Cruader and the Outcast lists, both using Men-at-Arms and Empire miniatures for their "new units". Crusaders got Empire Knights and Outcasts got Yeoman Guards (WS3 MAA) and Brigands and Bombards, all of which the AJ recommended using Bretonnian and Empire minis (also Dwarfs for the Bombard). TK got the same treatment, all the new TK units are recommended for painting existing minis differently, putting Tomb Guards on Chariots, or removing the Necropolis Knights from the Necroserpents. AJ recommends kitbashing, no new minis for them.

So any "new units" for the Empire lists will probably end up being the same anyway

[lcmiracle]

Considering we only get two lists, I assume Marienburg and Middenheim. They are releasing too little new miniatures, to pull off a "Taal army".

It's interesting that the Forces of Fantasy section for the Empire features a Marienburg army.

It does? I could only find the miniature showcase section showing a General on griffon showing the name Sigismund, which is name of the Osterlund Wolf Emperor

[GoblinGreenBases]

Considering we only get two lists, I assume Marienburg and Middenheim. They are releasing too little new miniatures, to pull off a "Taal army".

It's interesting that the Forces of Fantasy section for the Empire features a Marienburg army.

It does? I could only find the miniature showcase section showing a General on griffon showing the name Sigismund, which is name of the Osterlund Wolf Emperor

The Greatswords are carrying a Marienburg banner or at least I am pretty sure they are.

[Thargrim]

A priest of Taal might be cool, since Talabecland banned the church of Sigmar during this era and Middenland has it's priest of Ulric counterpart too.

[lcmiracle]

Considering we only get two lists, I assume Marienburg and Middenheim. They are releasing too little new miniatures, to pull off a "Taal army".

It's interesting that the Forces of Fantasy section for the Empire features a Marienburg army.

It does? I could only find the miniature showcase section showing a General on griffon showing the name Sigismund, which is name of the Osterlund Wolf Emperor

The Greatswords are carrying a Marienburg banner or at least I am pretty sure they are.

Interesting, it does seem the infantry section of the showcase were themed after Marienburg, while the rest are Middenheim (with the KEs probably intended to be Kngiths Panthers).

A priest of Taal might be cool, since Talabecland banned the church of Sigmar during this era and Middenland has it's priest of Ulric counterpart too.

I'm imagining they'd be represented with the Amber Wizard resin miniature with elementalist spells, all they need to do is giving a "signiture spell" for Taal or something. They did this exact thing with the refight of the La Maisontaal Abbey in Warhammer Chronicles 2003, where they made Bagrian the Abbot of La Maisontaal the special rule "Arch Priest of Taal", that makes him Lv.4 Wizard with Lore of Beasts.

Can't imagine a priest of Taal or even Shalaya to ever wear armor, honestly.

[Dazgrim]

I think we need to be looking at what Empire forces would be in the Border Princes. The Arcane Journals are focused on tying armies into the inevitable Border Princes campaign book, probably released in 2025 .

[Horak]

Would love to see the big ones get separate lists.

Osterland (Middenheim) gets the followings.
1. White Wolf hammers option for knights and great swords to represent teutogens and white wolf knights. A hammer that gives +1 str, and +1 str on the turn that charged, but at initiative.
2. Wolf Kin, great sword wielding skirmishing troops.
3. Huntsmen with longbows.
4. Hunting hounds fast cavalry option.
5. Ar Ulric special character.
6. Some nod to warriors of Ulric, maybe ability to take great weapons or EHW with state troops.

Obviously not going to get all this, but one can dream.
Balance by removing all gunpowder related troops, or making them rarer.

Reikland would get units and buffs to gunpowder troops, in line with old nuln baggage train army, and buffs/units in line with foot knights etc.

Talabecland gets its own priest of Taal, not sure about special units, but probably related to hunting, so longbows and hunting hounds etc?

[lcmiracle]

I think we need to be looking at what Empire forces would be in the Border Princes. The Arcane Journals are focused on tying armies into the inevitable Border Princes campaign book, probably released in 2025 .

Well, there are three named Empire Border Princes from the rulebook itself: Karl Raachwald, Lord Gunter Dunkelmund, and Jurgen Esselhafen, being of Reikland, Middenland, and Marienburg, respectively. All of whom has access to units in their original provinces. There are two lists in an arcane journal so it makes zero sense representing it per province. It makes more sense to make a grand list after a faith such as Sigmar, Ulric, Taal, and even Morr, restricting some units, add some special rules to represent their temperment/specialties, and done. This leaves another list for the outcasts -- to have more none-human mercenaries

Would love to see the big ones get separate lists.

Osterland (Middenheim) gets the followings.
1. White Wolf hammers option for knights and great swords to represent teutogens and white wolf knights. A hammer that gives +1 str, and +1 str on the turn that charged, but at initiative.
2. Wolf Kin, great sword wielding skirmishing troops.
3. Huntsmen with longbows.
4. Hunting hounds fast cavalry option.
5. Ar Ulric special character.
6. Some nod to warriors of Ulric, maybe ability to take great weapons or EHW with state troops.

Obviously not going to get all this, but one can dream.
Balance by removing all gunpowder related troops, or making them rarer.

Reikland would get units and buffs to gunpowder troops, in line with old nuln baggage train army, and buffs/units in line with foot knights etc.

Talabecland gets its own priest of Taal, not sure about special units, but probably related to hunting, so longbows and hunting hounds etc?

The Ar-Ulric is the title of the High Priest of Ulric, so I won't expect a named Ar-Ulric in this case; and in return, I also don't want to see Arch-Lectors nor the Grand Theogonists added as unique characters -- it's best to leave them nameless, at best giving them a special rule in a cult-led army themed after Sigmar. As for the other middenheim list -- Wolf-kins can be represented by flaggellants with stubborn and skirmish, Warriors of Ulric can be a state troop veteran upgrade, and the same can be for any other cults.

[Horak]

I think we need to be looking at what Empire forces would be in the Border Princes. The Arcane Journals are focused on tying armies into the inevitable Border Princes campaign book, probably released in 2025 .

Well, there are three named Empire Border Princes from the rulebook itself: Karl Raachwald, Lord Gunter Dunkelmund, and Jurgen Esselhafen, being of Reikland, Middenland, and Marienburg, respectively. All of whom has access to units in their original provinces. There are two lists in an arcane journal so it makes zero sense representing it per province. It makes more sense to make a grand list after a faith such as Sigmar, Ulric, Taal, and even Morr, restricting some units, add some special rules to represent their temperment/specialties, and done. This leaves another list for the outcasts -- to have more none-human mercenaries

Would love to see the big ones get separate lists.

Osterland (Middenheim) gets the followings.
1. White Wolf hammers option for knights and great swords to represent teutogens and white wolf knights. A hammer that gives +1 str, and +1 str on the turn that charged, but at initiative.
2. Wolf Kin, great sword wielding skirmishing troops.
3. Huntsmen with longbows.
4. Hunting hounds fast cavalry option.
5. Ar Ulric special character.
6. Some nod to warriors of Ulric, maybe ability to take great weapons or EHW with state troops.

Obviously not going to get all this, but one can dream.
Balance by removing all gunpowder related troops, or making them rarer.

Reikland would get units and buffs to gunpowder troops, in line with old nuln baggage train army, and buffs/units in line with foot knights etc.

Talabecland gets its own priest of Taal, not sure about special units, but probably related to hunting, so longbows and hunting hounds etc?

The Ar-Ulric is the title of the High Priest of Ulric, so I won't expect a named Ar-Ulric in this case; and in return, I also don't want to see Arch-Lectors nor the Grand Theogonists added as unique characters -- it's best to leave them nameless, at best giving them a special rule in a cult-led army themed after Sigmar. As for the other middenheim list -- Wolf-kins can be represented by flaggellants with stubborn and skirmish, Warriors of Ulric can be a state troop veteran upgrade, and the same can be for any other cults.

It depends where you pull the lore from, in earlier iterations a High Priest could be the high priest of a certain temple of Ulric, and the Ar Ulric was the high priest at the temple of Ulric in Middenheim, plus of course an elector. I don't think a leadership 8 basic character does it justice tbh, so i think there is room for an actual Ar Ulric character.
Agree on most of the other points, but wolf-kin are vastly different to flagellants.

[Warlord]

I forgot Warriors of Ulric had the different weapon upgrades. Nice idea, but I don't think they will do that... unless they re-release the militia kit with the white wolf upgrade sprue. Or just White Wolf upgrade sprues on their own would be amazing.

We never had official hunting hound models - just either goblin wolf models or the mordhiem hunting hound - so not sure they would offer that.

If they do release White Wolf Knights, it would be great for them to have Wolf Cloaks as special equipment, maybe with something like an extra +1AS so that they have decent armour while also wielding great weapons.

[GoblinGreenBases]

I'm sure we'll get the Militia kit.  They could give rules for the unit and recommend using the White Wolf upgrades.  I'd like to have some foot knights converted from the old Soldiers of the Empire command sprue plus knights.

[Warlord]

Also, I expect a Marienburg list is doable, by them simply releasing the old Forgeworld Ironsides, and the Landship as a steam tank varient.

[GoblinGreenBases]

What were the rules for Ironsides? Those models were dope.

I'd like to see Free Company get something in Marienburg to represent mercenary warbands.

[lcmiracle]

Also, I expect a Marienburg list is doable, by them simply releasing the old Forgeworld Ironsides, and the Landship as a steam tank varient.

Nuln Ironsides are from the Gunnery School so it'd make no sense for them to be Marienburg exclusive. An HA upgrade for the state troops can work without a province-specific army list anyway. Two lists, two, I hope they don't waste it on any single claimaint.

[Perforated]

I'd really like to see Swordsmen pop up.  Maybe give them a 6+ Ward Save against non-magical melee attacks and WS 4.

You have swordsmen, they are called Veteran State Troops now.

[The Peacemaker]

I wonder if knights of the white wolf will be able to ride wolves like goblins do.

[lcmiracle]

I wonder if knights of the white wolf will be able to ride wolves like goblins do.

I always thought they were gonna release the "Winter Wolves of Middenheim" on the 8th edition demigrpyh page, along with the "Razorbeak-Mounted Knights of the Shining Talons".

[GoblinGreenBases]

This is more wishlisting, but I'd like maybe one unit per 1,000 of Handgunners to have the option to buy Volley Fire.

[Perforated]

This is more wishlisting, but I'd like maybe one unit per 1,000 of Handgunners to have the option to buy Volley Fire.

It should probably be a non-limited upgrade

As it is now, in terms of firepower per point there is literally no reason to choose handgunners over Outriders. Minimum unit cost for handgunners is 80pts (10 models) while the minimum cost for ourtiders is 76 (4 models). The outriders gain Fast Cavalry, Skirmish, Vanguard, 5+ armour, "Fire and Flee" and two more shots...

And while we're wishlisting, handgund should not be a one point upgrade. It should be choose crossbow OR handgun. The extra AP comes at the cost of range.

[commandant]

Really I think handguns should be strength 5 and crossbows strength 4