Topic: Shadows over Bogenhafen RPG (out of character thread)

[commandant]

Torture was common enough in the 13-21th centuries on earth.   There is no reason to suggest that torture is not common enough in the warhammer world as a legal method of doing things.

Sure the guards may have been thugs, and being a guard is a good thing to be if you are a thug, but that is not information against Margiette.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Yes and hiding your face and drinking beer through a straw ... common...rational she changed the weather story and changed the subject she lied about as obvious as the wine trading story you should at least mention some different grapes or praise the different flowers tastes and smell of wines if you want to pass as connoiseur

[Finlay]

veiled insult/threat:
"I am delighted to welcome you to my family's lands. It is a rare treat to receive visitors... especially such... exotic ones."

insult:
glares at ragni and billy

veiled allusion to wizardry and danger.
thirsts for power.

expressions:
cruel, icy voice, predatory gaze at mortus when talking about library

insult:
rousseaux ignores billy.

insult:
the villagers are dull, like cattle.

deception:
lies about the source of the blight.

deception/torture
villagers volunteer for her experiments

rude:
sneer at julian

unjust:
not interested in lawyers, law or court.

cruel:
says peasants should be beaten like dogs. Offers to demonstrate to us (also unjust, she would randomly pick someone to beat)

demented:
rousseaux thinks the whipping sounds like music

threatens the whole group:
come to my castle or I'll delay you.

cruel/demented/torturer.
"the careful infliction of pain is itself a science, and worthy of study."

cruel: (kindness is not valued)My own father was a kindly man. People took advantage of him. He had the good fortune to marry my mother. She is, in many ways, more of a man than he was!

threat:
arrange a gift for j-dawg, ragni and billy

experiments:
taken Dagmar's body back to their castle.

delusional and cruel:
They apparently care for the peasants, yet they beg for coppers and bread.

The guards are zombies

cruelty:
she hung her torturer on a spike, it took him days to die.
the guards try to arrest you, acting for them.
guards take pople to the castle and they never come back

divinity:
Sigmar wills us to take the magic sword and strike down the evil opressors.

murderer:
Dagmar's death was suspicios
Priest is killed.

evil sorceror:
the storm came from the castle.

sorcery/demon worship:
Dagmar summoned demons/air elementals, and can make zombies.
She spoke to Rousseaux of "wonderful, unknown" things

evil:
the warpstone is incredibly corrupting: on the land, and it made Dagmar kill the people in the barren hills.

worse than dagmar:
"things started to go wrong around here when Dagmar von Wittgenstein died. That's when the land started to go bad. But it was the storm a couple of years back that really did it. Everyone at the castle has gone mad. The guards drag people away, and they don't come back"

in cahoots with her mum:
rouseax says she takes after ingrid.

sorcery:
Dagmar got the warpstone 100 years ago. How old is she meant to be, 23? IMPOSSIBRUUUUUU





That Mortus likes here is frankly, ridiculous. Even if you discount tha evidence of them being evil, the way she talked about her peasants, and the way they treated billy and Julian should be enough for you to not like her.

I hope Mortus doesn't say to Julian that she likes her.

[Fandir Nightshade]

 

It makes complete sense....stop arguing with the stubborn irish. On second thought we should have asked her for a presentation and right before they start the punishmet we bring first her and then her guards down screaming to the village that this will end now and that we are here to liberate them....oh and some yelling of Huzzah! and Sigmar! Gee if only Klaus was a "real" Witch hunter or hero he would do it that way.

It is completely rubbish to think the Wittgenstein family innocent at this point of the story....we also know that a body of some villager was dropped FROM the castle and it is obvious that she likes to do experiments we don´t have a video of her fondling some villagers until he grows tentacles but circumstantial it is rather sure that the wittgensteins, the guards and Rousseaux (hate rufus for this french name I type it wrong several times and have to retype it) are bad guys and are up for some proper killing. The question is how we do it best without breaking to many laws ourself and more important survive the encounter.

[Finlay]

I nforgot the mutants!

and the zombies in the tower.



I'm quite up for just fucking these fools up now.

But I guess it would alert the castle, surprising them with rebels is perhaps smarter.

[commandant]

You know most of those thing you listed are true of your average high middle ages noble.

There is a certain racism about her and no doubt we will end up killing her but the only reason at the moment to suggest that she is guilty of anything is because she is the daughter of the family that is certainly guilty.

I never claimed that the Wittgenstein family were innocent, only that it is not certain that this member is guilty.   If you are going to claim that every noble that is dismissive of justice (as the 21st century sees it) or the peasants is in league with chaos and tainted by warpstone then there will be few nobles left.   After all by that logic Sir Martin must have been tainted by warpstone.

I think one should be less bigoted.

While I don't for a second think she will turn out as anything but pure evil it would be a nice twist in the tale if she did.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Of course Sir Martin  is also in league with evil, he flooged Klaus and deserves some proper killing at some point.

[Finlay]

in cahoots with her mum:
rouseax says she takes after ingrid.

sorcery:
Dagmar got the warpstone 100 years ago. How old is she meant to be, 23? IMPOSSIBRUUUUUU

deception:
lies about the source of the blight.

deception/torture
villagers volunteer for her experiments

threatens the whole group:
come to my castle or I'll delay you.

cruel/demented/torturer.
"the careful infliction of pain is itself a science, and worthy of study."

cruel: (kindness is not valued)My own father was a kindly man. People took advantage of him. He had the good fortune to marry my mother. She is, in many ways, more of a man than he was!

threat:
arrange a gift for j-dawg, ragni and billy








alllllllllllllllll point to her own guilt. Almost everything else I posted above should be enough for Mortus to not like her. But hey, maybe it's cool for you to have people treat your friends like shit.

Open your eyes.

Don't try and read a twist into the story which isn't there.

I'm claiming she is tainted by warpstone BECAUSE SHE FUCKING IS TAINTED BY WARPSTONE

[rufus sparkfire]

I have never been more entertained by an argument!

[commandant]

I'm sure if she is tainted by warpstone it will become clear.

The racisim is a problem, but then I would think that racism is fairly common.

Also Dagmar got the warpstone 100 years ago and she is only 23 is a point in her favour.   She wasn't born for at least 70 years after the warpstone turned up

She can only lie about the source of the blight if she knows that the source of the blight is the warpstone.   Otherwise she is just mistaken about the source of the blight.   After all it isn't the most common thing in the world or the most studied.

Rouseaux could just be sucking up to her by saying that she is like her mother.

Being taken advantage of would not be considered a good thing in a world where people keep their position by being the most brutal and ruthless around.   Kindness is only valued in a middle age sense if it does not effect your ability to govern and maintain your position.   The difference between kindness and weakness is very slight.

Considering that torture is widely used as a legal device its correct usage is indeed worthy of study.

The threat to the entire group is interesting.   It might not be a threat in the sense your expect, it could just be a rich noble used to getting her own way using her power.

Also while the 'gift' is a point against her, if indeed it turns out to be a bad thing it could simply be that she thinks we have no supplies and intends to provide them and you are reading into it too much.

We don't know what the experiments on the villagers are.   If they are an attempt to cure the effects of the blight then she is doing them a favour

I have never been more entertained by an argument!

Its what happens when you assume that some of the 'baddies' might be real people with real motives and maybe not that bad after all.   I think that I will be proven wrong but it is quite fun all the same.

[Finlay]

No, it isn't.

Can you actually read and comprehend what you are typing?

"Also Dagmar got the warpstone 100 years ago and she is only 23 is a point in her favour.   She wasn't born for at least 70 years after the warpstone turned up"

So Dagmar has to be what, at least 20 years old when he got the warpstone. Which makes him about 100 when he had her, if she is meant to be 23.




You are just trolling

[rufus sparkfire]

I just wonder what they'll serve for desert. I suppose we'll have to wait for Klaus to stop pissing in the consulting room, or whatever he plans to do in there.

If it's an evil desert, will it convince Mortus that they are evil?

[Finlay]

peasant brain jelly.

But no, thats ok, all the medieval nobles eat that.

Especially french ones.

[Fandir Nightshade]

The real life medieval...from the perspective of some Irish...all nobles were arrogant homicidal sadists and the peasants were eating the dirt from their backyard.

[commandant]

No, it isn't.

Can you actually read and comprehend what you are typing?

"Also Dagmar got the warpstone 100 years ago and she is only 23 is a point in her favour.   She wasn't born for at least 70 years after the warpstone turned up"

So Dagmar has to be what, at least 20 years old when he got the warpstone. Which makes him about 100 when he had her, if she is meant to be 23.




You are just trolling

I thought Dagmar was at least her grandfather, maybe even her great grandfather (must look back to see if there is anything written anywhere to suggest otherwise).

Her father is called Ludwig so Dagmar is at least her grandfather.

Fandir have you ever looked into what medieval nobles were like?   

French nobles were quite bad, but some of the English and Germany ones were terrible.   Must find that story about the frogs and some of the Austrian and eastern European ones were really horrible.

Not 100% sure what Irish nobles were like considering they didn't have anything like the same sort of power and then the Normans came.


On your last point, given that Mortus has quite a history of sleeplessness would she be able to tell the difference between drugged tiredness and just normal tiredness?

[Finlay]

"Her father is called Ludwig so Dagmar is at least her grandfather."

ok, fair point.



but my million other arguments still stand

[rufus sparkfire]

On your last point, given that Mortus has quite a history of sleeplessness would she be able to tell the difference between drugged tiredness and just normal tiredness?

Drugged.

[commandant]

Now that is not nice.   I fear this may not end well

And after all the effort I put in you had to make her a baddy after all (sad face)

[rufus sparkfire]

But all medieval nobles used to drug their dinner guests!

Ha ha.

[commandant]

Well quite a number of them did.   Poison was much more common than sleeping drugs though.   Okay I suppose we need to wait and see where we wake up.

[rufus sparkfire]

Okay I suppose we need to wait and see where we wake up.

Gosh, really? 

You aren't actually asleep yet... only Billy is. He and Max are affected more than the rest of you, because they are smaller (Mortus has an anomalously high toughness score).

[rufus sparkfire]

And after all the effort I put in you had to make her a baddy after all (sad face)

Hey, this is all straight out of the book! I haven't changed a thing.

[commandant]

And after all the effort I put in you had to make her a baddy after all (sad face)

Hey, this is all straight out of the book! I haven't changed a thing.

But you could have.

Okay lets see if Mortus can get back to the inn.   How badly effected is she?   She would have been eating quite steadily but nor more so than Margitte so she may not have consumed that much of the drug

[Finlay]

Now that is not nice.   I fear this may not end well

And after all the effort I put in you had to make her a baddy after all (sad face)

You’re like a shitty feminist or Marxist scholar from 1960’s or 70’s academia.

Black Athena! Now with new added foreword by commandant.



Mortus is lucky that Julian doesn’t know that she liked Margritte more than her travelling companions with whom she has saved the world, saved her life, and finally been accepted for being a wizard.

[commandant]

Now that is not nice.   I fear this may not end well

And after all the effort I put in you had to make her a baddy after all (sad face)

You’re like a shitty feminist or Marxist scholar from 1960’s or 70’s academia.

Black Athena! Now with new added foreword by commandant.

It would have made a much more interesting story if she was not a baddy though.   I tend to forget that in GW fiction everything is pretty much what it seems