Topic: Shadows over Bogenhafen RPG (out of character thread)

[Finlay]

so the dwarf... what about the 31 year old grizzled angry bounty hunter, or the 28 year old scheming, lying, flirting charlatan.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Klaus is very happy he has joined the group...influence wealth becoming a count......great stuff makes sense...and he is very fond of Max.


But that said..Mortus isn´t acting like a young girl ...AT ALL!

The wandering off to some random place makes no sense ..AT ALL!....To me at least but that doesn´t even matter



 but if you feel like it...do it.....it is your character we are playing this for fun....not to create an alternative reality.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

On the clerk at least...but that would have ended really bad.

Also the reason for Admund to join and help could be ...demons...threatening the Empire therefore EVERYONE living in it of course someone who is brave enough should step up and try to fight this. Also the party is filthy rich, if Admund thinks he can make more as a sellsword...travelling ALONE to Marienburg or Carroburg his int score should be lower. Travelling most certainly is dangerous business and would take months without any employment and the chance of brigands or worse Greenskins or Beastmen.

Overall Admund comes over as someone who offers his service.(blade) by punching the employer in the face first..which makes him a rather bad sellsword. He should turn brigand soon.

You aren't the only folks looking to hire a sword. There are plenty of folks traveling to/from Middenheim for the carnival. I've made myself some significant coin while being here. I could easily ride in a wagon west to Marienburg or Carroburg. Realistically, this party has been nothing but bad news for Admund, and he has been beaten up too much to really participate in the carnival - his only real reason to stick around.

I've been trying to get Admund to care about the demons and purple hand stuff, but nothing is really "anchoring" him to it. He saw his first demon whilst hanging out with the party, which is more reason for him to ditch everyone. I'd certainly want none of that business.

[Cannonofdoom]

What?! Rufus had to make all of that shit up on the fly to appease you. You went haring off with just a name and no evidence of any wrong doing. He should have just let Mortus get lost and eaten by a critter. She'd be exactly as useful to solving the whole situation with the Empire in a beastman's belly.

[Fandir Nightshade]

On the clerk at least...but that would have ended really bad.

Also the reason for Admund to join and help could be ...demons...threatening the Empire therefore EVERYONE living in it of course someone who is brave enough should step up and try to fight this. Also the party is filthy rich, if Admund thinks he can make more as a sellsword...travelling ALONE to Marienburg or Carroburg his int score should be lower. Travelling most certainly is dangerous business and would take months without any employment and the chance of brigands or worse Greenskins or Beastmen.

Overall Admund comes over as someone who offers his service.(blade) by punching the employer in the face first..which makes him a rather bad sellsword. He should turn brigand soon.

You aren't the only folks looking to hire a sword. There are plenty of folks traveling to/from Middenheim for the carnival. I've made myself some significant coin while being here. I could easily ride in a wagon west to Marienburg or Carroburg. Realistically, this party has been nothing but bad news for Admund, and he has been beaten up too much to really participate in the carnival - his only real reason to stick around.

I've been trying to get Admund to care about the demons and purple hand stuff, but nothing is really "anchoring" him to it. He saw his first demon whilst hanging out with the party, which is more reason for him to ditch everyone. I'd certainly want none of that business.

That would make him a great coward that avoids danger where he can....even more cowardly than Klaus even.

The party weren´t the bad news for him Bardin was....without Max he most likely would be dead by now. So he might feel duty bound to Max at least his personal hate at Klaus is also ...fun but not really smart as for all Admund knows Klaus IS an imperial noble....grabbing one and flinging him to the ground most certainly should result in some flogging by itself. Klaus was very nice to him NOT sending for the watch after that.

[commandant]

The dwarf will protect her from the angry bounty hunter if things get out of hand and the scheming, lying, flirting charlatan doesn't seem that dangerous.   After all Mortus is really quite tough.

I know you have something of the idea that Mortus is some weak 16 year out 21th century teenager but in reality she is really quite tough an quite able to handle herself.   Heinrich might have been an issue but Klaus would never do anything in public and in private Mortus has an advantage over him [that is that she can knock him out fairly handily].   Mortus isn't worried about one on ones, she is tougher than most people and can knock out most non wizards.   She is worried [oddly enough as you mentioned it] about gangs of people.   Hence the dwarf and the angry bounty hunter are a good investment.

But that said..Mortus isn´t acting like a young girl ...AT ALL!

The wandering off to some random place makes no sense ..AT ALL!....To me at least but that doesn´t even matter

Mortus isn't a young girl, why would she act like one?   Also the random place that she wandered to was where the last link of the red crown cult should be [or where it is most likely to be].   It wasn't likely to be there, but she had no way [other than the use of player information] to know that.

What?! Rufus had to make all of that shit up on the fly to appease you. You went haring off with just a name and no evidence of any wrong doing. He should have just let Mortus get lost and eaten by a critter. She'd be exactly as useful to solving the whole situation with the Empire in a beastman's belly.

I'm sure he did, any maybe he shouldn't have.   However she is just as useful to the Empire as any of the other members of the party.   It was logical given that ever other person connected to Teguen was a chaos cultist that the noble who was really upset and angry when she discovered he was dead could be a chaos cultist.

Mortus' choice to stay with the group after Heinrich accused her of being a witch was the main choice where I really think she might have fled.   I discussed it for quite a long time and decided that because she believed that Max, Julian and Klaus were more likely to believe her over Heinrich [Max being the important one] she could talk her way out of it.

Revealing her magic was also a bit dodgy, but she did think that Max was going to be killed so she didn't have much choice.   People didn't notice I think but she was going to end the discussion with the tax collector by fireballing him when he threatened Max.

[Finlay]

Klaus is very happy he has joined the group...influence wealth becoming a count......great stuff makes sense...and he is very fond of Max.


But that said..Mortus isn´t acting like a young girl ...AT ALL!

The wandering off to some random place makes no sense ..AT ALL!....To me at least but that doesn´t even matter



 but if you feel like it...do it.....it is your character we are playing this for fun....not to create an alternative reality.

exactly.

it is a "role playing game"

not "role playing"

and the game we are currently playing is called something something in middenheim, or power behind the throne, or whatever.

Agreed cannon, although I would have had her emerge from the warp in middenheim, even though it is ridiculousluy "deus ex machina"ish

The dwarf will protect her from the angry bounty hunter if things get out of hand and the scheming, lying, flirting charlatan doesn't seem that dangerous.   After all Mortus is really quite tough.

what if the dwarf is sleeping, and mortus, cannon and klaus get drunk. Mortus wasn't tough at the start.

I know you have something of the idea that Mortus is some weak 16 year out 21th century teenager but in reality she is really quite tough an quite able to handle herself.   Heinrich might have been an issue but Klaus would never do anything in public and in private Mortus has an advantage over him [that is that she can knock him out fairly handily].   Mortus isn't worried about one on ones, she is tougher than most people and can knock out most non wizards.   She is worried [oddly enough as you mentioned it] about gangs of people.   Hence the dwarf and the angry bounty hunter are a good investment.

No fireball, no sleep spell. Rufus even bent the magic rules to make you more useful, giving you better sleep spell.

But that said..Mortus isn´t acting like a young girl ...AT ALL!

The wandering off to some random place makes no sense ..AT ALL!....To me at least but that doesn´t even matter

Mortus isn't a young girl, why would she act like one?   Also the random place that she wandered to was where the last link of the red crown cult should be [or where it is most likely to be].   It wasn't likely to be there, but she had no way [other than the use of player information] to know that.

Your insistence that she isn't a young girl is funny. I agree, in the past a 17 year old girl is older than a current 17 year old girl. she's still almost half the age of one party member, and less than a third the other.

 insanely unable to realise that all RPGs will involve player information. The idea, at least for me, is to try and minimise it's effect. Not make stupid decisions just to avoid it.

What?! Rufus had to make all of that shit up on the fly to appease you. You went haring off with just a name and no evidence of any wrong doing. He should have just let Mortus get lost and eaten by a critter. She'd be exactly as useful to solving the whole situation with the Empire in a beastman's belly.

I'm sure he did, any maybe he shouldn't have.   However she is just as useful to the Empire as any of the other members of the party.   It was logical given that ever other person connected to Teguen was a chaos cultist that the noble who was really upset and angry when she discovered he was dead could be a chaos cultist.

Except not every other person connected to Teugen was a chaos cultist. In fact I think only about 2 or 3 of them were.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

On the clerk at least...but that would have ended really bad.

Also the reason for Admund to join and help could be ...demons...threatening the Empire therefore EVERYONE living in it of course someone who is brave enough should step up and try to fight this. Also the party is filthy rich, if Admund thinks he can make more as a sellsword...travelling ALONE to Marienburg or Carroburg his int score should be lower. Travelling most certainly is dangerous business and would take months without any employment and the chance of brigands or worse Greenskins or Beastmen.

Overall Admund comes over as someone who offers his service.(blade) by punching the employer in the face first..which makes him a rather bad sellsword. He should turn brigand soon.

You aren't the only folks looking to hire a sword. There are plenty of folks traveling to/from Middenheim for the carnival. I've made myself some significant coin while being here. I could easily ride in a wagon west to Marienburg or Carroburg. Realistically, this party has been nothing but bad news for Admund, and he has been beaten up too much to really participate in the carnival - his only real reason to stick around.

I've been trying to get Admund to care about the demons and purple hand stuff, but nothing is really "anchoring" him to it. He saw his first demon whilst hanging out with the party, which is more reason for him to ditch everyone. I'd certainly want none of that business.

That would make him a great coward that avoids danger where he can....even more cowardly than Klaus even.

The party weren´t the bad news for him Bardin was....without Max he most likely would be dead by now. So he might feel duty bound to Max at least his personal hate at Klaus is also ...fun but not really smart as for all Admund knows Klaus IS an imperial noble....grabbing one and flinging him to the ground most certainly should result in some flogging by itself. Klaus was very nice to him NOT sending for the watch after that.

No, it makes him a sell sword. Of course he wants to remain alive! He's tough, but not an idiot that will just throw his life away because some group of people nursed a head wound for him. Admund has no allegiance, just that he can fight, and can get paid for it. Think about it: You get hired, then shot in head and demons start showing up. Admund has every right to say "screw this!" and go join the militia or find work elsewhere that doesn't involve him getting attacked by the supernatural and settling the duels between dwarfs. There are plenty of ways to make a living without being as deeply risky as this party has been.

As far as Klaus goes, Admund has no idea who you really are. He certainly dresses nice, but it staying with a band of miscreants in some commoners Inn. He doesn't seem like a proper noble, and you never really talked to Admund about who you are. You could be some dressy fop like Bardin for all he knows. You pontificated about morality to Admund twice, so roughed up Klaus a little. I was only doing it out of fluffy fun (and because I love you) and didn't have Admund attack Klaus to cause wounds.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Anyhow...now everyone but Mortus has been whipped...we should alter this as soon as she reaches Middenheim.

I think everything that has happened so far makes lots of sense and I am AMAZED about how well Rufus keeps us entertained and at least close to the plot. Well done GM.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

Anyhow...now everyone but Mortus has been whipped...we should alter this as soon as she reaches Middenheim.

I think everything that has happened so far makes lots of sense and I am AMAZED about how well Rufus keeps us entertained and at least close to the plot. Well done GM.

  Hear Hear! Let's send him a pair of extremely loud board shorts as a reward.

[Finlay]

Fandir, you need to read the "first law" trilogy.

there is a mercenary company in it which makes it's specialty out of not fighting... makes all the money from loot.

[Fandir Nightshade]

And a whip. 

So if Admund wants to go let him leave and make a new character that fits in better.

I know that it is en vouge nowadays to create anti heroes instead of heroes...hence I did Klaus but even though he is perfectly unlikable I think him and Max are the glue that keeps the others together best you can have anti heroes that work regarding group dynamics...both Heinrich and Admund are the loner type and yes including those is incredibly hard but also a players choice by creating them. What would be bad if everyone is running around on his own.

[Finlay]

Julian owes life debts to max, heinrich, and Klaus now. Klaus is also “a friend of dwarfs” more generally for helping Gorim. 


I don’t think we need to make a new character for Karl. The bardin stuff was done to be less boring than “here is a mercenary, let’s hire him.”

And it certainly was!

Justification for admund- getting rich!

[Fandir Nightshade]

Fandir, you need to read the "first law" trilogy.

there is a mercenary company in it which makes it's specialty out of not fighting... makes all the money from loot.

Smart boys..but at some point others would try to take away their loot and go after them too....I think with our trading stuff...and also with stuff like archery tournaments we should take into acount that other level characters should at LEAST have our stats....even though mechanicswise Heinrich by now shoots better than the count of Ostland. Brigands are the biggest threat to tradesmen.

[commandant]

She was toughness four and had the sleep spell at the start.   So she was tough and could handle herself on a one on one.   heinrich isn't likely to try and kill her [and even if he does she has choices like the sleep spell.   In any one on one Mortus believes that she will win.   

I can't really remember how much she drank at the start but I find it unlikely that she was ever really drunk.

Who do we know that was connected to Teugen  who was not a cultist.

All his business partners = cultists
His fellow professors [or the ones that he wrote to] = cultists
what is she called = cultists.

As a player I know that it is unlikely that Isodle was a cultist [I really expected to turn up un Middenhiem a few days after you and say "there was nothing there"] but from the what Mortus knows it looks much more likely that she is.

Yes Mortus only 17 but she is really quite strong and very tough.   You expect her to be young of mind and there is no reason for her to be that.   

Also the other members of the party are quite old.   Both Klaus and Heinrich would be past their prime [Heinrich well past his prime].   


I am aware that all insanely unable to realise that all RPGs will involve player information.   However the decision that you keep calling silly [and yet don't offer a way around without using player information] was the only way I could think of to minimise player information.

In the end I suppose it depends [like so much else] on what you are trying to do.   If you are tying to win the game than certain actions make sense.   If you are trying to tell the story than other actions make sense.

Fandir, you need to read the "first law" trilogy.

there is a mercenary company in it which makes it's specialty out of not fighting... makes all the money from loot.

Isn't that how all mercenary companies have made their money [from the start of time]   In fact isn't that just the problem with mercenary companies as described in The Prince.

Anyhow...now everyone but Mortus has been whipped...we should alter this as soon as she reaches Middenheim.

I think everything that has happened so far makes lots of sense and I am AMAZED about how well Rufus keeps us entertained and at least close to the plot. Well done GM.

She might not like that.

Rufus is doing really well as a GM though, it is a very interesting story he has going.

[Finlay]

But you’re not telling a story, at least not one that is connected to the game. You’ve ignored the plot and the other characters, which kinda seems the point of RPG’s, to me.
Why wouldn’t we be trying to win, seeing as it’s a “role playing game” and not just “role playing”. Without involving yourself in the plot you may as well just write a novel.

“[and yet don't offer a way around without using player information]” I didn’t say you should avoid using player information entirely, I said you should attempt to avoid using it too much, while also realising that this is an impossibility. You have taken the complete opposite of this, basically removing yourself from the game just so you don’t.

Furthermore, Only about two of the teugen people were cultists. Most of them were duped into it and did not realise it was a demon cult.



How much money does Mortus have left? How much are the wages of 6 mercenaries a day? Is it not something like 20 crowns per person per day (julians engineer wage).
She has no money waiting for her in Altdorf as she gave billy nothing.

Your character sheet has her at 4200 crowns. If the mercernaries are 20 a day, then you have 35 days of mercenary wages. Without paying for accommodation, travel, or food.

How long has mortus been away?
How long will it take her to get back anywhere?

[Fandir Nightshade]

She has 4 and a half thousand left...Klaus made all of you rich 

And that said...I think it would have been more fun if Mortus would have sticked around the group but it is as it is and I think we should go on with the flogging and some afterwards Klaus hate.

[Finlay]

She has 4 and a half thousand left...Klaus made all of you rich 

now she has no klaus, and no investment with billy.

[commandant]

I think Mortus will spend about 1500 - 2000 crown.   Her bodyguards are costing 50 crown a day for the lot of them.

I tend to think of a RPG as a stroy being told between the GM and the players.   Each player and the GM are all part of the story and the telling of the story.   The story is the game and winning the game is not finishing the story but telling the story.

I think you should avoid using player information entirely, unless you are playing as a God.   How could a charachter be reasonably expected to make a choice based on something that they don't know.   

[Finlay]

Yes, I enjoyed commandant’s posts. I understand your rationale for doing what you did.
But still massively disagree with it.




“I think you should avoid using player information entirely”

Then the party would never have been formed, and RPGs are impossible.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Finlay is right....Commandante you also use players knowledge...all you do differently is you do the opposite of what you think you would do if Mortus would know everything you do running away from the party..especially max seemed very forced to me.

[Finlay]

Player reasons to stay with party?
Loving max?!?! liking max.
Klaus making you rich
Protection.

Player reasons not to stay with party?
One persons name, somewhat connected to Teugen. Even though Teugen was a big merchant so connected to lots of people, and even those in the cult we know are not necessarily “cultists”, as they had been duped to it.

You didn’t even explain to the party “we need to go here because of this link” to try and keep the party together, you just ran away.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Yep...showing how much you are not "playing" but being in character...and this young girl Mortus thing....well it is you who does all the shy smiles acting like a little maid thing...and then switching to tough as nails killer queen....I have never seen any guy playing a female character well hence I think guys should stay away from it.

[rufus sparkfire]

Evil rufus is evil. 

I genuinely feel bad about all that! 4 posts of detailed nastiness.

[Finlay]

I think it was all a cunning plan of rufus to reduce us all to 0 wounds, so we can’t fight!

Although Julian deserved it, legally, for the dual.