Topic: Shadows over Bogenhafen RPG (out of character thread)

[rufus sparkfire]

One thing about v2 that is interesting is that, even if you use a fate point to survive a bad encounter, the effects of critical hits remain on the character. One player had lost his left hand in a previous campaign, and another had a disease of some sort that affected his social abilities. Was interesting.

You can definitely lose a hand or get a disease in V1. Fate points are just to avoid lethal damage.

They were playing in some small town and spending time lurking through the woods. As a DM Rufus, do you prefer more Urban or free flowing outdoor settings. (Death on Reik vs Middenheim)

I prefer urban stuff, mostly. Death on the Reik was good though, because of all the boat travel.

I don't like dungeon exploration. I dislike it in computer games too.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

One thing about v2 that is interesting is that, even if you use a fate point to survive a bad encounter, the effects of critical hits remain on the character. One player had lost his left hand in a previous campaign, and another had a disease of some sort that affected his social abilities. Was interesting.

You can definitely lose a hand or get a disease in V1. Fate points are just to avoid lethal damage.

 

[Cannonofdoom]

Cathay is not relevant.

I disagree. I think this is something that should be pursued. Mortus should set sail for Cathay as quickly as possible! I support you, Mortus! Go to Cathay!

[Fandir Nightshade]

So the Ar Ulric is the one being blackmailed for screwing with Emanuelle?

[commandant]

Cathay is not relevant.

I know, I'm just putting together a list of what Mortus knows and suspects to decide what she should be doing for the next hour or so.   Even if Cathay was relevant [and she still thinks it is] there doesn't seem to be any way of doing anything about it.

Just got back from my local gaming store. I saw a Game of Thrones RPG book there. I seriously wonder how it plays, and if it is any good. Does it require the DM to give 30 minute descriptions of food?

I think it is really easy to die in the Game of Thrones RPG.   Not as easy as the system we used in college where a critical hit did 5X the damage generation of a normal hit at a higher Damage Generation dice, but still easier than in normal RPGs.   A friend of mine was complaining about that aspect.   Other than that I think it is really good.

That said the same friend was complaining that it was really easy to die in WFBRPG as well so take his comments for what they are worth.

[Finlay]

It is easy to die in this one, isn’t it? Rufus changed the spell rules to make them better, which helped you (and us) a lot early. I think we are rich and tough now, but at the beginning one unlucky fight can kil you pretty easily.

[commandant]

It is much easier for some people to die than others.

Mortus would die fairly easily as she is only T5 with no real protection [she can have the +1 from her aura]

Heinrich and Klaus [with their +3 or so armour] would be quite difficult to kill and the dwarfs who are T7 and have +3 armour are really hard for anything to kill.

The good thing [if getting dead can be considered good] is that once you start taking wounds you die fairly fast.   Most of the players only have 8 or so wounds.   I suppose once the party runs into something that is really high strength or can cast powerful magic then straight up battering them down will not be as much of an option.   At the moment the dwarfs can tank all of the damage that the party can reasonably be expected to face.

I think it is really difficult to balance how hard it is too kill somebody in an RPG because if you make it reasonably easy for humans to kill people than demons are going to have it so easy and if it is reasonably difficult for demons it is impossible for humans.   

I'm not sure what Rufus did to the magic, I know he made it cheaper but I don't know if he changed the effects at all.   He may well have.   

Magic is still really quite weak in WFB, mqinly because it can be interrupted and with Heinrich hitting with 98% of his shots there is no reason why the group [at least if it includes Heinrich] should ever be afraid of a spell caster.   I quite like the magic in WFB, in that I find that magic is often overpowered in RPGs.

[rufus sparkfire]

I think it's both easy to die and hard to die! Because of the funny combat system.

[commandant]

I think it has a kind of "Either you die or you don't" sort of combat system.   It seems difficult enough to just be lightly wounded.

[Finlay]

that's true commandant, But we didn’t have 3+ armour at the beginning!

Tough dwarfs is the biggest complaint on the game, isn’t it. I think overall it is easy for humans to die early on, and stabilises once you level a bit and have money for armour.
Heinrich’s died twice anyway, I think I died once as well, in the barn fight?
 Surely mortus would have died if Rufus hadn’t given you the quick-cast sleep stuff too.

[rufus sparkfire]

I should have lied and said you rolled up 'sing' or something instead of 'very resilient' at the start! Julian and Heinrich both have it, along with high starting toughness values.

I probably should have left the magic rules alone too. Spell components! Escalating EXP costs!

[Fandir Nightshade]

Klaus has T2 and only+1 armour...it looks super fancy though he just was extremely licky so far and likes to stay a bit in the back. A critical will do serious damage to the dwarves and magic is dangerous for them too.

[commandant]

Surely Mortus would have died if Rufus hadn’t given you the quick-cast sleep stuff too.

I didn't realize that quick casting sleep was change to the magic system.   It would be really really useless without that.

Mortus could have died early on, she didn't mainly because she is quite tough.   I can't remember if she used sleep in that fight, I remember one where she failed to connect with sleep for about six combat rounds in a row.   It was quite funny.

I probably should have left the magic rules alone too. Spell components! Escalating EXP costs!

I think you did a good job with the magic.   You might want to make the Level 2 spells more expensive but I like the magic the way it is.   Maybe you shouldn't get the discount on level 1 spell when you finally gets around to learning level 2.

I would have powered up the higher level wizards slightly more, the level three and level four wizards but you handled it very well.

I do think though, that without your adjustments there would be little point in playing a wizard [unless demonolgy is really cool or something]

[rufus sparkfire]

WFRP does not need a wizard in the party.


There are some powerful high level spells! I think wind of death (L4 necromancy) will kill a large proportion of a city's population (without looking it up, it does something like 2d6 auto-wounds on everyone within a mile of the caster). And L4 demonologists can open a demonic portal that brings in dozens of demons.

In both cases, they require difficult components though (the enchanted dust of five mummies for the first example, and several dozen ritually-extracted human hearts for the second).

However, getting to be a level 4 wizard requires a colossal amount of EXP. Plus, if you do evil magic, you get insanity points and disabilities (strength loss, light sensitivity, turning into a toad-man...).

Summoning demons, by the way, permanently reduces your toughness score.

Evil sucks!

[commandant]

WFRP does not need a wizard in the party.

It is a thing in balancing RPGs, you shouldn't have a balance where the party needs a Tank, A wizard, a healer etc, but you also shouldn't have a balance where the party suffers if they have a wizard [as seems to be the case in your pre modified WFBRPG] or a healer etc.

Evil does look nasty if it goes off.   I would expect no less of a level four caster though.   After all a level L4 necromancy [if my understanding is correct] is a 8 wizard [4 normal levels and four necromacy levels]

I do like the fact that evil messes you up.

Do you always lose a Toughness Level for summoning demons or is there a roll or something.   I'm just thinking that after you summoned four or five you would just be T1 and really easy to kill.

[Finlay]

Do you always lose a Toughness Level for summoning demons or is there a roll or something.   I'm just thinking that after you summoned four or five you would just be T1 and really easy to kill.

but you'd have 4 demons to protect you

[commandant]

Do you always lose a Toughness Level for summoning demons or is there a roll or something.   I'm just thinking that after you summoned four or five you would just be T1 and really easy to kill.

but you'd have 4 demons to protect you

There is that.

[rufus sparkfire]

The party doesn't need a wizard, but it doesn't hurt to have one. They can do the reading! Max had to take this role because Mortus wouldn't go into the sewer.

One thing you do need is someone with healing skills. I forgot to tell you this at the start. So Max eventually learned.

After all a level L4 necromancy [if my understanding is correct] is a 8 wizard [4 normal levels and four necromacy levels]

Not quite right. You have to be a L1 normal wizard first. You can then become a L1 specialist (illusionist, elementalist, necromancer, demonologist). But you don't have to take further normal wizard levels - you can carry on to the next specialist level.

There aren't any L4 wizards in this campaign! At all (no, Something Rotten in Kislev doesn't count, because it's rubbish).


How demon summoning works: the first time you summon a demon (pentagram, human sacrifice, true name, funny candles) you make a bargain with it. This involves losing one point of toughness (representing part of your soul maybe?). You can then summon it easily in future, and it will do what you want. Each new demon means a new bargain.

You can restore lost toughness with drugs (remember the evil lawyer bloke's drugs?).

[rufus sparkfire]

Julian wants Ar-Ulric to resign! 


Which is fair enough, really!

[commandant]

One thing you do need is someone with healing skills. I forgot to tell you this at the start. So Max eventually learned.

The magical healing is a bit shit though, only heal light wounds in a combat system that doesn't really cause light wounds.   Maybe it scales up.

Not quite right. You have to be a L1 normal wizard first. You can then become a L1 specialist (illusionist, elementalist, necromancer, demonologist). But you don't have to take further normal wizard levels - you can carry on to the next specialist level.

There aren't any L4 wizards in this campaign! At all (no, Something Rotten in Kislev doesn't count, because it's rubbish).

That is not as bad as I thought so.

How demon summoning works: the first time you summon a demon (pentagram, human sacrifice, true name, funny candles) you make a bargain with it. This involves losing one point of toughness (representing part of your soul maybe?). You can then summon it easily in future, and it will do what you want. Each new demon means a new bargain.

You can restore lost toughness with drugs (remember the evil lawyer bloke's drugs?).

Serious stuff.   I assume you have to take the drugs regularly and they have other side effects?   It is good that being evil has interesting side effects.

[rufus sparkfire]

Magical healing is rubbish. I meant normal healing. A doctor! Someone should have been a pharmacist, herbalist or physician's apprentice.

There are only two healing spells, and the good one is L4.


You do have to take the drugs regularly, and they are addictive. And expensive. Just say no to demonology, kids.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

I'm trying to imagine in my head a party of halfling medical professionals.

How do they reach the surgery table or see over the counter?

[Finlay]

Julian wants Ar-Ulric to resign! 


Which is fair enough, really!

I was hoping it isnt papal.

Also, want to set up a safehouse for the people under our protection!

[Karl Voss of Averland]

The Julian Stonebride Center for People Who Haven't Done Good, But Want To Do Good Things Too

[Finlay]

Huh. Julian was offering to give him credit for ending the law, so he can go and do what he wants. Nice of him to take the blame! That will make Julian like him more.#

I wonder what dwarfs think of affairs and stuff?
I guess emannuelle and the graf for “humans” would be bad, but I imagine dwarfs would really care about actual adultery, but then not be so bothered by other scandal, ie the fact is emannuelle is lowborn, and disrespecting the grafs wife.