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The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Tactica Board 8th Edition => Topic started by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 20, 2012, 12:22:09 PM

Title: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 20, 2012, 12:22:09 PM
Tactical Decision Game 4:  Bring out the Fluff


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Tactical Decision Games are a way to explore Empire strategy and tactics as a forum.  The goal is to share ideas and learn.  The way this is achieved is by pausing a game between Empire and another foe at critical points in a battle to get forum input on what decisions they would make at that junction.  There are no right or wrong answers, just different ways of achieving objectives.  The majority’s voice wins and then we proceed from there.

In this TDG, we are going to see how competitive we can be with our fluff at its best.


-------------------------------------


Input to Start Us Off

As discussed at the end of TDG 3, we are going to put aside our max competitive focus and see how well we can do with lists based on fluff.  That isn’t to say that they won’t be effective or tough-  but we shouldn’t see any dual STank lists submitted….if you catch my drift.

Another thing different for TDG 4-  I am going to get assistance from a select few forum members on running the bad guys.  This will give you an opportunity to show your tactical acumen with armies besides our faithful Empire if you wish.  I have not yet determined the opponent-  but we will do so based on lists I receive or where the most interest lies.

So-  this is what I want to you post on:

First of all, if you have a fluff list to submit, give us a short (by short I am thinking a couple of paragraphs) description about your list-  what province it is from, who leads it, and any background/history you want to give.  Don’t worry-  whoever is the list winner can go into more fluff detail if they wish.  Please give your army a unique name so we can use it for voting.

Give the list in a basic, simple format-  no need to list point costs for each unit.  We will work that out and do final list tweaking for the winner.

Second, if you would like to assist me with a specific army as an enemy general, just state an enemy army you would support me in.  Once I pick the army I will PM you to set up details on how it will work.  It won’t be that much commitment-  but you need to be available to check messages often so you can help out.  Understand-  if you decide to help the bad guys you will not be able to assist/participate with the forum in making Empire decisions.  (You can’t play both sides of the fence!)

Last-  if you have any solid enemy lists you would like us to face, just PM me with the enemy list.

One final comment-  you can submit a list AND give me one bad guy you would like to assist with.  Who knows if your list will the winner or if your bad guy choice will be the opponent-  so it only increases your options!

Once we get a decent amount of lists, I will close it out and then set us up for voting.  Most votes wins of course.

Without further ado-  bring out the fluff!

 :::cheers:::
HHG
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Noght on November 20, 2012, 12:36:55 PM
Ok, how do you want the "Op-Force" General to help?  As a consumer of the TGD, wouldn't they be privy to all the tactical decisions being discussed in the thread?

That being said, I could help with VC, O&G, or Wood Elf.  Fluffy or Snarly lists available.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 20, 2012, 12:51:37 PM
Looking forward to this HGG, and again thx for doing this :eusa_clap:.
I can assist the following armies: O&G, Skaven, Vampire Counts and Bretonnia, and the rest given a day or two of reading ;o) 
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: mottdon on November 20, 2012, 01:10:54 PM
I'm really looking forward to this!  I love fluff!  I can help with High Elves and O&G.

You should probably be charging money for all your work HHG...   :biggriin:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 20, 2012, 01:18:31 PM
Ok, how do you want the "Op-Force" General to help?  As a consumer of the TGD, wouldn't they be privy to all the tactical decisions being discussed in the thread?

Having them not visit the threads as we go along would be best-  but since this is the internet I have no real enforcement mechanism!
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Joey_Boy on November 20, 2012, 01:20:02 PM
Since I'm new to this TDG stuff I'm not really sure if I should post my Fluffy list here or send it to HHG via PM or do both?

So I'll post up here and remove it if I'm in the wrong.

So without further ado I give you the Talabecland 28th Light Brigade based out of Kappelburg in the north east of Talabecland. They are formed around a core regiment of Halberds, scouting Archers and Blunderbuss cavalry who patrol the Kölsa Hills and the northern parts of the Great forest. Their strong ties to the cult of Taal shows in the Stag Knights of Taal and the High priest who mentors the young general Gustaf who is the youngest son of the Baron von Straussen. The Light Brigade is also a part of the rapid response defense of Talabecland due to the high mobility of it's troops and their experience in fighting the creatures of chaos and outlaw bandits in the Great Forest and defending against roaming bands of greenskins on the open areas of the Kölsa Hills.   

Below I have added three options to simulate the different ways the force can operate using added mobility, defensive capability or a vanguard unit.

Talabecland 28th Light Brigade

High Priest of Taal(Boort the Fierce): lvl4(Lore of Beast), Fencer's Blades, White Cloak of Taal, Ironcurse Icon, Griffon /w Bloodroar. 485 Pts

Heros:
1 Captain of the Empire(Cpt. Karl af Krussen): FPA, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Might, Dawn Stone. 141 Pts

1 Warrior Priest of Taal(Gustaf von Straussen): General, Great Axe, Armour of Meteoric Iron.  120 Pts

1 Witch Hunter(Von Hafling): Brace of Pistols. 55 Pts

1 Witch Hunter(Solomon Krane): Brace of Pistols. 55 Pts

1 Battle Wizard of the Celestial Order(Magnus the Seer): Dispel Scroll. 90 Pts

Core:
50 Halberdiers: Full Command. 330 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts

10 Archers: Musician. 80 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts

10 Archers: Musician. 80 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts
     
Special:
4 Stag Knights of Taal (Demigryph Knights): Musician. 242 Pts

10 Blunderbuss Shock Cavalry (Outriders): Musician. 220 Pts

10 Blunderbuss Shock Cavalry (Outriders): Musician. 220 Pts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt, 1.
The defenders of Kappelburg.

1 Cart mounted Great Cannon. 120 Pts

1 Cart mounted Great Cannon. 120 Pts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt, 2.
The patrol force.

5 Road Wardens(Pistoleers): Musician, Outrider /w repeater pistol. 120 Pts

5 Road Wardens(Pistoleers): Musician, Outrider /w repeater pistol. 120 Pts
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt, 3.
The rapid response force.

8 Inner Circle Knights of Taal: Full Command, Banner of The Eternal Flame. 240 Pts
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Noght on November 20, 2012, 01:21:48 PM
Ok, how do you want the "Op-Force" General to help?  As a consumer of the TGD, wouldn't they be privy to all the tactical decisions being discussed in the thread?

Having them not visit the threads as we go along would be best-  but since this is the internet I have no real enforcement mechanism!

That makes sense.  If ya want to play the forum, you don't get to peek, fair trade.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: commandant on November 20, 2012, 01:33:24 PM
The Crusading Army of Sigmar

Fluff - (because fluff is important)

The Church of Sigmar, worried about the growing threat to the Empire and the increasing amount of chaos reported, recruited the Crusading Army of Sigmar and entrusted the Arch Lector of Nuln, Ida the Ever-ready to march north and handle the issue.   Despite the tension between the two bodies Ida enlisted the aid of Fitzroy Firehand, a master from the college of Fire and Malcore Mandon, a man well known for his ability to root our chaos and his lack of mercy towards those which he believed practiced it.   Between the three of the they recruited the army, drawing heavily on the Knights of the Broken Promise to do so.   Valgor the Violent joined them as they marched through Ostermark.   Valgor had recruited a very disciplined band of followers, but was in a certain amount of trouble with the Governing Council of a small town called Santachbury.   They refused to pay his fee for driving off a beastman attack.   Ida, seeing a useful addition to his army of knights.   He offered to pay Valgor's fee and hire him on a new contract.   Valgor considered the issue for all of five minutes and then he accepted.   It was Fitzroy's idea to let Valgor carry the banner of the army.   It achieved two aims.   It tied the valueable man to the army more and it helped control the knights who were objection to the inclusion of commoners that were not their servants.
Tony von Valison was the last to join the army.   He was travelling back to Nuln from when his contract with Ostermark expired.   Ida was seriously happy to see him and even happier to see the two batteries of cannon that he had with him.  He was hired on the spot.

With his army complete Ida went to look for the chaos that was causing problems.

Lords

108   - Ida the Ever-ready - Arch Lector (Heavy Armour, Shield)   
225   - Fitzroy Firehand      - Battle Wizard Lord (Level 4, dispell scroll, lore of Fire)

Heroes

135   - Valgor the Violent - Captain of the Empire (BSB, AOMI)
85     - Merciless Malcore Mandon - Witch Hunter (Brace of pistols, Ring of Volans)
65     - Tony von Valison - Master Engineer

Core

480   - Valgor's finest - 50 Halberdiers (Full command, 20 Halberdier detachment)
250   - The Order of the Broken Promise - 10 Knights (Full Command)
70     - The servants of the Knights - 10 archers

Special

80     - Malcore's guard - 10 Huntsmen
120   - Bloody Mary - Great Cannon
120   - Blessed Bessy - Great Cannon
632   - The Order of the Broken Promise dismounted knights - 40 Greatsword (Full Command, 25 Halberdier detachment, 6 archer's                                                                                                                                           .                                                                                                                           detachment)

Rare

130   - Fitzroy's bodyguard - Celestial Hurricanum

2500 points
Lords     333 points - 2 models       13.32%
Heroes   285 points - 3 models       11.4%
Core      800 points -  90 models     32%
Special  952 points -   83 models    38.08%
Rare      130 points -   1 model          5.2%

Now as far as I remember you can have up to 50% Special.   If that is incorrect please let me know.

The infantry line does the main killing here.   The Greatswords and the Halberdiers supported by the Hurricanum.   The lore of Fire and the cannon are to bring the foe across the field to you.   The huntsmen are to be annoying in the foes back field.

I will submit this army again and, if I have time, I will submit a lit from the Army of the Order of the Black Shield
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SorenJ on November 20, 2012, 02:09:47 PM
@ Commendant: Why are there no flaggies in your crusading army? That dosn't seem very fluffy to me.

@ Joey_Boy: Somehow the idea of having two canons dosn't feel very "light" to me, carts or no carts those things weigh a tonne.

Just my thoughts.  :smile2:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: commandant on November 20, 2012, 02:14:33 PM
Mainly because the core of the army is a Knightly Order [The Order of the Broken Promise] qnd flaqggies would not fit the army very well.   No proper crusader general would let flaggies within a hundred miles of his army, they are far too difficult to control.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Joey_Boy on November 20, 2012, 02:20:51 PM
@ Joey_Boy: Somehow the idea of having two canons dosn't feel very "light" to me, carts or no carts those things weigh a tonne.

Just my thoughts.  :smile2:

I agree completely, however the Taal portion of the army is not an active part of the army proper but an added contingent that aids the army when the province is in danger and the Light Brigade is drawn into the the defense of Talabecland. Same things with the cannons, that are part of Kappelburg city defenses and not something that the brigade would take with them unless they go off to fight proper invaders. But mostly it's because I have the old galloper Guns and I want to use them in my army :) (and this is the army I'm currently trying to build for the 2013 tournament scene)

But you can exchange the cannons for two units of road wardens (2*5 Pistoleers: Musician and repeater pistol champ) if you want the army to be more of a patrol force or a fast response army. Thats the beauty of it. It's really flexible in the way that it can be used as the defensive force of the region(cannons), a rapid response force(add a unit of knights instead of cannons) or a patrol force(pistoleers over cannons).     :smile2:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Hieronymus on November 20, 2012, 02:44:18 PM
The Count of Nordland, growing concerned at the ever present threat of Norscan incursions, has organised a scouting force under the command of Captain "Reaver Bane" Von Dihr, a ranking noble in the Knightly Order of the Golden Hawk. They are joined by Nostramo, a High Wizard of the Celestial college, whose observations of the movements  of the heavens has been an invaluable asset in the defence of Ostlands shores from the ravages of Norscan raiders. The core of the force consists of the elite Knights of the Order of the Golden Hawk, but they have received reinforcements from the 21st Salzenmund Halberdiers, who doggedly follow in their hoofprints. The coastal villages of the region have been rallied under the leadership of Johan the Grim, a priest of Sigmar, who has seen all to often the results of unchecked Norscan incursions, and the rabble of troops he has raised are prepared to defend home and hearth, much to the annoyance of Captain Von Dihr. Soaring above the battlefield, Captain Sigismund Von Eck is the direct representative of the Count, taking tidings of the movements of the scout force back to Salzenmund on his loyal Pegasus, Blitz. Von Dihr's orders are simple - locate any Norscan incursions and occupy them until help can arrive.

Selections: I've included some items just to ensure that there would be enough points left over to properly equip characters.

+ Lords +

    * Nostramo - Battle Wizard Lord
        Lore of Heavens, Wizard Level 4
        * Magic Items
            BRB - Talisman of Preservation
        * Warhorse
            Barding


+ Heroes +

    * Sigismund von Eck - Captain of the Empire
        Battle Standard Bearer
        Full Plate Armour, Shield
        * Imperial Pegasus
            Iron-hard Hooves, Swift as the Wind
        * Magic Items
            BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Dragonhelm, BRB - Sword of Striking


    * "Reaver Bane" Von Dihr - Captain of the Empire
 Full Plate Armour, Lance, Shield
        * Magic Items
            AB - The White Cloak of Not-Ulric
        * Warhorse
            Barding


    * Johan the Grim - Warrior Priest
        Heavy Armour
        * Magic Items
            BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Ironcurse Icon


+ Core +

    * Home and Hearth Volunteers - Free Company Militia
        Champion, 30x Free Company Militia, Musician, Standard Bearer


    * 21st Salzenmund - Halberdiers
        Champion, 40x Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer


    * Knights of the Golden Hawk - Knightly Orders Inner Circle
        Champion, 10x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield, Musician
        * Standard Bearer
            BRB - Standard of Discipline


+ Special +

    * "Hull Cracker" Great Cannon


    * "Driftwood" Great Cannon


    * Hendrick's Hawkeyes - Huntsmen
        10x Huntsmen, Musician


    * Luthor's Lurkers - Huntsmen
        10x Huntsmen, Musician


    * Andreas' Ambushers - Huntsmen
        10x Huntsmen, Musician


    * Oli's "Crack Shots" - Outriders
        Musician, 9x Outriders
        * Champion - "One Eye" Oli
            Grenade Launching Blunderbuss


    * Rico's Roughriders - Pistoliers
        Musician, 5x Pistoliers


    * Ser Robin's Runaways - Pistoliers
        Musician, 5x Pistoliers
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Big Brother on November 20, 2012, 03:50:28 PM
Ok, here is my entry. Maybe not super competitive, but could be entertaining.

The Ravaging Hoards of Stirland

An arch lector has raised the rabble of Stirland and convinced the Knights of the Sacred Scyth to join on a quest to clear Stirland of heretics, or anyone who looks like one.

Arch Lector on War Alter
Bright Battle Wizard
Warrior Priest on Barded Steed
Witch Hunter with Brace of Pistols

10 Archers
10 Crossbows
9 IC Knights of the Sacred Scyth with Great Weapons w/ FC
40 Free company w/ FC

5 Pistoliers a/ musician, champion with repeater pistol
40 Flagellanta with champion
Great Cannon
Mortar

Helblaster
Helstorm

As stands, this list is at about 2250, leaving lots of room to equip our characters as we see fit.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: librisrouge on November 20, 2012, 03:52:24 PM
Escorted Gunnery Train

Fluff-
T'was the year 2513 when the Averland city of Beltenhal was sieged and overtaken by hordes of the enemy. Knowing that pulling their foe down from the walls would be a costly affair, Count Leitdorf released a messanger to Nuln requesting an artillery train be dispatched to simply remove the walls from the equation. He was also noted as having commented, "...and it'll be good fun to watch too."
Countess Emmanuel took two weeks to ponder this request before eventually granting it. Those two weeks had been precious though and Marius dispatched forces from not one but two knightly orders in order to guaranty that the needed guns made good time to the battle field. First, he sent the a force of the Knights Panther's own inner circle, trusting in their loyalty and faith to see the weapons through. Secondly, he dispatched the Knights of the Old Alliance (a new order of knights dedicated to continuing the positive relations between the Empire and the Dwarf holds.) These knights were so inclined to send their own Grandmaster himself to complete such an important mission. Hoisting their Dwarf forged warhammers, they left Nuln in good spirits confident they'd finally earn their respect as a knightly order.

List-
Templar Grandmaster - Greatweapon, Dawnstone, Helm of the Skavenslayer, and Potion of Strength
Grandmaster of the Knights of the Old Alliance

Wizard Lord - Lvl 4, Lore of Fire, and Staff of Sorcery
A wizard under hire of the gunnery school. His techniques have helped them forge tougher, more durable cannon barrels.

Master Engineer
With this many guns why wouldn't at least one engineer be dispatched.

Warrior Priest - Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armor, Shield, Dragonhelm, and Luckstone
The spiritual heart of the Knights Panther detachment

Captain of the Empire - FPA, Handgun, Enchanted Shield, and Crown of Command
Handgunners x20 - Marksman and Banner (2 Handgunner Detachments x10)
The 32nd Nuln Broadsides, dispatched to escort the guns to the battle and back.

Archers x10 - 2 Archer Detachments x5
Pistoliers x5 - Full Command (Repeater Pistol)
Scouts hired by the Gunnery School to ensure a safe journey of their guns.

Knights Pather x10 - Inner Circle, Full Command, and Banner of Discipline
Knights of the Old Alliance x10 - Great Weapons and Full Command
The Knights sent by Count Leitdorf to see the guns quickly to the front lines.

Great Cannon x2
Mortar
Hellblaster Volley Gun
Hellstorm Rocket Volley
The Gunnery Train itself, representing the full range of Imperial artillery and firepower.

I thought it would be fun to play with a couple of things not commonly used:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Grazhnakk on November 20, 2012, 05:42:59 PM
Nuln School of Engineering Experimental War Brigade

Fluff: The engineering school is often seeing to prove its latest accomplishments on the battlefield. Recently, the dean of engineering petitioned his elector count for the funds to supply and train a fighting force to provide a testbed for the latest wonders in the heat of battle.

The Count agreed that it's a good idea, however, in order to keep his engineers from killing themselves with unbridled enthusiasm and zero battlefield experience, lent one of his most experienced generals to the force to make sure the eggheads come back home in one piece. The general brought with him his best retinue of soldiers to form a core of men to fight with, knowing the engineers wouldn't know which end of a halberd goes where.

Army:

Lords:
Markus von Hauptmann, General of the Empire: Full plate, shield, crown of command (to reflect his many years of experience)

Heroes:

Manfredd Schweinmann, Alchemist: Gold Wizard, level 2, Power Scroll (Alchemist for the engineering school. A bit crazy, with little regard for defense)

Otto Sitzenpinkel, Chairman of Biological Studies: Master Engineer, Pigeon Bombs

Schmendrick von Totenhosen, Automata specialist: Master Engineer, Repeater Handgun, Mechanical Steed

Helmut Steinhauer, Artillery master: Master Engineer, no equipment

Bergmann Langmesser, Artillery master: Master Engineer, no equipment

Core:

20 Handgunners, Marksman, Hochland Long Rifle

20 Handgunners, Marksman, Grenade Launcher

20 Handgunners, Marksman, Repeater handgun

35 Halbardiers, full command (Hauptmann's retinue)

Special:

2x Great Cannon

Mortar

5 Outriders

5 Outriders

Rare:

Hellblaster

Hellstorm Rocket Battery

Steam Tank (I know, it's not a soft thing, but it's fluffy as a pillow in this army)
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zakalwe on November 20, 2012, 07:45:14 PM
It had been a long hard crusade, but now they were returning victorious with the spoils of war. Though his troops were depleted, Grandmaster Leo Kehr, was hopeful of the future, the Caliph of Sultan Jaffar was defeated and a his tyranny would no longer plague this land.

Deep in thought, he didn't notice the outrider hastily approaching until the preceptor next to him, nudged him gently.
The outrider looked physically exhausted and his horse looked like it was about to die of thirst, he passed Leo over a scroll. Reading it, a sneer formed on his face. "Turn the troops around" he barked, "we are not yet done here in this blasted desert".


This is a crusading knights panther army, based on an old theme of mine that merged Knights panther and used Leopolds Leopard company as the foot contingent.  Modified for 8th ed.

Grandmaster Leo Kerh  (ideally would have the sword of sigismund, could do +1str and ASF at 60 points?) otherwise Sword of strife, potion of strength and the dawnstone.

Master alchemist, and Treasurer. Lvl 4 metal wizard.  earthing rod talisman of endurance and the gold sigil sword.

Captain Bsb, full plate, shield, barded warhorse and the wailing banner.

Captain  Full plate shield and an Arabyan carpet.

Captain, full plate, shield,  The Spear of might

Witch Hunter brace of pistols and a potion of speed.


10 knights panther, inner circle, full command and the rangers standard (desert strider mainly)

!0 Knights Panther, full command

30 Leopolds leopard company (Spearmen) full command 

20 dismounted knights panther ( greatswords) full command and the gleaming pennant

6 Demigryph Knights panther , halberds, full command and the Steel standard.

10 desert scouts (hunstmen)


This is a more of a crusading army in the open desert, roaming and routing the last vestiges of a defeated enemy. Speed is more important than fire-power.

I used to use a galloper gun as their only artillery piece, it could be used as a normal cannon, or keep it as a str 6 gun that can either move/march as a horse or fire.




Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: mrth0msen on November 20, 2012, 08:13:29 PM
HHG: I've pm'ed you the high elves coven list i talked about :)
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Dnic on November 20, 2012, 10:24:06 PM
Nice your already starting TDG 4  :icon_biggrin:

I can help with Warriors of chaos.  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zakalwe on November 20, 2012, 11:12:27 PM
Also i am happy to support as any army.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 21, 2012, 01:24:36 AM
You Want fluff? Fluff you shall have!
Ladies and gentlemen, kids and grannies, I give you:

THE FLUFFING OF SIGMAR

(Well, that came out...well, exactly as intended, actually.  :wink:)

"Men of the Empire! The time has come to rise up against those who would seek nothing less then the destruction of everything we hold dear! It is time to rise up against the Mutant! Rise up against the Witch! Rise up against the Non-Beliefer! Rise up against the Heretic! It is a time for cold steel and colder hearts! With steel and flame we will protect our homes! We will protect our Emperor! And we will protect Sigmar Himself against those who would spit upon His holy name!"

"Sigmar! Sigmar! Sigmar!"

The chant was rising in the gathered crowd, growing louder and louder, but the Arch Lector´s voice sounded louder still:
"Rise, peasant! Rise, knight! Rise, lord! Rise, everyone whose faith in Sigmar is still true!"

"Sigmar! Sigmar! Sigmar!" the chanting continued for hours and hours.

*Extract from the Chronicles of Albrecht Totschlaeger, Arch Lector of Sigmar, detailing his rousing speech 12 days before his army´s utter destruction on the field of battle against the vile forces of Chaos.*


The army consists of:

Arch Lector Albrecht Totschlaeger,
(Arch Lector with Heavy Armour, Shield, Warhorse with Barding, Dragonhelm, Obsidian Blade, Van Horstmann´s Speculum)
his loyal Standard Bearer Manfred von Bärenfell
(Captain of the Empire with Full Plate Armour, Shield, Warhorse, Barding and Battle Standard Bearer with the Banner of Swiftness)
and the roused peasants that followed him blindly to their deaths.
(40 Free Company Militia with Militia Leader, Musician and Standard Bearer)

Janus Lichtbringer
(Battle Wizard Lord with the Lore of Light, Level 4 upgrade and Dispel Scroll)
and his protectors (who aren´t entirely unhappy to be on wizard-sitting duty).
(10 Archers with 2 5-man Archer detachments)

Sir Volkan „the Blessed “, a true knight of honor and valor
(Warrior Priest Heavy with  Armour, Warhorse with Barding and Enchanted Shield)
and the bannerets, graciously sent along by the local nobility.
(9 Inner Circle Knights with Preceptor, Musician and Standard Bearer with Gleaming Pennant)

„Hexenbrenner“
(Witch Hunter with Brace of Pistols)
and his fanatic followers.
(10 Huntsmen)

„Ketzerfaust“
(Witch Hunter with Brace of Pistols)
and his crazed followers.
(10 Huntsmen)

„Sündentod“
(Witch Hunter with Brace of Pistols)
and his manical followers.
(10 Huntsmen)

„Franz“
(Witch Hunter with Brace of Pistols)
and his lunatic followers.
(10 Huntsmen)

„The Deathseekers“, more fanatical peasant rabble.
(25 Flagellants with Prophet of Doom)

„The Flayers“ (mostly of their own skin, though).
(25 Flagellants with Prophet of Doom)

Tactics:
Albrecht and his BSB go with the large mob of Free Company, which tries to reach the opponents lines quickly with their +1“ movement banner. They both sport a 1+ save and can leave the unit quickly on their horses should the need arrive. Albrecht is quite the duelist, stealing his opponents stats with the VHS and then ignoring their armour save.

Otherwise the unit will have to trust in the magical support of Albrecht and Lichtbringer, who is hiding safely behind the lines in his unit of Archers. The Archer detachments, of course, have the usual chaff duties of blocking and dying.

Albrecht is supported by a unit of ICK with the usual works and two medium sized units of Flagellants, who hope to tear some stuff apart, but also hope not to meet to many archers on their way getting their.

What´s unusual about the list is, of course, the four Witch Hunters. They´re not so expensive as to make the list unplayable (540 points with their units) but should offer a truely unique game as they hunt down their target(s). The Huntsmen can, of course, be used for regular chaff as well.

Why you should vote for this list:
4 Witch Hunters! Think of the pre-game discussion on which targets they should choose and how to deploy! Perfect for a TDG!

Also, who wouldn´t want to see what a bunch of peasant rabble can do on the Battlefield? Actually managing to take down a tough tournament list would be way awesome!

Lastly, it would be a nice change of pace to play a list where there´s no holding back. There´s still plenty of tactically challenging material in there, but the utter lack of any artillery will force us to play a completely different game then the last 3-4 TDG´s, where we always had the luxury of letting the enemy come to us while we soften them up with bullets.

Composition:
Lords 18,3%
Heroes 17,3%
Core 26,8%
Special 37,6%
Rare 0,00%
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Harshey on November 21, 2012, 02:22:23 AM
I'd love to play the bad guy. Honestly, i could do it with just about any army too. Are we still thinking 2,500 for this go around?

I won't peek either.

Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: librisrouge on November 21, 2012, 03:30:00 AM
I've an idea. Lets have two teams. Bad guys would get their own thread and each team promises not to peak. Once both lists are decided on and posted we can have each member decide which side they want to fight for.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 21, 2012, 08:15:13 AM
Are we still thinking 2,500 for this go around?

I didn't specifically state it-  but yes, staying at 2500.  For future TDGs, that will be one of the things we can tweak.  Keeping it fresh!

I've an idea. Lets have two teams. Bad guys would get their own thread and each team promises not to peak. Once both lists are decided on and posted we can have each member decide which side they want to fight for.

I might go this route-  if I do-  there will be only 1 mega-thread for each side-  that goes from Turn 1 to Endgame.  Otherwise, I will be clogging up the forum with TDG posts that some forum members don't pay attention to.

I wonder if the forum mods can set permissions on threads blocking certain people from it until it is all over.  That would be awesome-  but not completely necessary-  peekers are going to peek no matter what you do.   :icon_eek:

At the moment I am leaning toward O&G.  They can pose a threat in all phases and in my experience match up extremely well with Empire.

Keep the lists coming!  Lots of personality exhibited so far!
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SorenJ on November 21, 2012, 08:44:17 AM
+1 to "The Flufing of Sigmar"
This one has character. Could be nice to have Luthor Huss as general instead, and/or perhaps throw in the War Altar to provide hatred and blessings to all.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Eighty on November 21, 2012, 09:27:24 AM
+1 to "The Fluffing of Sigmar"
This one has character. Could be nice to have Luthor Huss as general instead, and/or perhaps throw in the War Altar to provide hatred and blessings to all.

so i am guessing that when a witchhunter is put with huntsmen he becomes a scout too? If so, thats pretty cool.

I think Fluffing of Sigmar is my choice so far. it wasnt all the presentation either  :closed-eyes: i want to shoot s3 arrows at t4 orcs all game
Title: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 21, 2012, 10:04:03 AM
+1 to "The Fluffing of Sigmar"
This one has character. Could be nice to have Luthor Huss as general instead, and/or perhaps throw in the War Altar to provide hatred and blessings to all.

so i am guessing that when a witchhunter is put with huntsmen he becomes a scout too? If so, thats pretty cool.

About the scouts, i dont think so
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SorenJ on November 21, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
No, characters joining a scouts unit do not gain the scouts special rule. Marcus Wolfheart is only character with the Scouts special rule. Characters can only gain the skirmish special rule.

The Fluffy Sigmar list will most def require some tweaking - like swapping scouts with normal archers or xbows. In addition, this list would only be fun to put up against undeads or chaos IMO.
Title: Re: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 21, 2012, 12:28:51 PM
+1 to "The Fluffing of Sigmar"
This one has character. Could be nice to have Luthor Huss as general instead, and/or perhaps throw in the War Altar to provide hatred and blessings to all.

so i am guessing that when a witchhunter is put with huntsmen he becomes a scout too? If so, thats pretty cool.

About the scouts, i dont think so

Ah, my mistake then...switch the Huntsmen for Archers then and add a few Free Company guys or something...certainly reduces the awesomeness of enemy characters getting witch-hunted right from the start though.  :icon_sad:

I don´t agree that the list can only be fun against Undead and Chaos though...I don´t see Ork Chieftains and Shamans enjoying getting Killing Blow´ed either; the Tools of Judgement (re-roll to wound in CC against Undead/Daemons/Wizards) are basically useless on the WH anyways and it´s not as if Light mages or Warrior Priests are only useful against Undead/Daemons either...
Title: Re: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: MrAbyssal on November 21, 2012, 10:08:28 PM
If it's Orcs and Goblins I may volunteer for the bad guys this time around.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SevenSins on November 21, 2012, 10:11:43 PM
If you're up to it HHG I'll add a +1 to having two threads one for the bad guys and one for the empire. Could be interesting. And after it's all over reading the "opposing thread" might give some valuable insights.

Oh and I'm an antagonist by nature so I'd like to join the bad guys in this case  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Ibasa on November 22, 2012, 01:58:08 AM
If its Lizardmen, I'm happy to contribute
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 22, 2012, 03:19:08 AM
I count 8 lists submitted so far....I know we have way more fluff bunnies on the forum than that! 

Don't be shy-  post your favorite Empire homies so we can get this going.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: librisrouge on November 22, 2012, 06:07:38 AM
I think we're not going to get as many armies since a lot of people seem interested in playing the bad guys.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 22, 2012, 10:12:10 AM
My contribution to the fluff   :biggriin:


The quest for the holy scriptures of Isildur…   
         Or   
            Da’ searzh for dem magic herbs   

In the years of the 2nd southern crusade, the honourable and noble Isildur fought the greenskins in the vile and cursed swamp lands of the Border Princes. Many knights perished in this plagued land, where it was said that the fumes of the swamps glowed bright green. This essence of chaos affected all living in these lands and while it caused men and beasts to fight with unnatural speed and strength, it corrupted their souls. Isildur had witness the death of many of his finest men, some by the spears and crude clubs of the green hordes, but as many by the “final salvation” of the holy padres’ when the corrupted minds of the soldiers were beyond cure.(http://s8.postimage.org/i145grdvp/forest.png) (http://postimage.org/)
It was in the darkest hour, a spirit of the forest guided Isildur to a lake that glimpsed with all the colours of the rainbow and where translucent flowers grew in the shallow water. The spirit offered Isildur one of the flowers. When he touched it, it vaporized and his mind was sharpened and his limbs strengthened and his will to cleanse the lands of the green horde, yet again, became stern. Isildur brought the ill to the lake where they recovered quickly from their wounds and their minds were cleared from the corruption of the fumes. Soon after he lead a devasting charge against the green hordes, but when victory was almost at hand, he was struck death by the fast spinning iron-ball attached to a mere goblin. And so it was that the brave Isildur, saviour of many noble knights, were killed by the merest of mortals in the corrupted lands of the border princes. His men fought valiant, but were outnumbered ten to one, and succumbed to the numerous vile greenskins.

 Conrad von Dürhaben and his men had been riding for days now. He was unsure of the direction, but kept that to himself. All he had for guidance was the old scribbled notes of what he thought might as well be the visions of a mad man. The council had ordered that the scriptures of Isildur were to be recovered, but to Conrad, that might just be another part of the intricate game amongst the higher nobles. The Bishop of Bechhofen had put forth this quest to the council soon after he had acquired the lands in a game of cards, and now needed it cleansed of any inhabiting goblin tribe. It was not permitted for the men of the church to have private property, neither was it allowed to play cards. Not that it mattered to Conrad, he just had to escort the holy emissary around these swamp lands until the padre had grown tired of the stench and declared that the scriptures of holy skt. Isildur were nowhere to be found and that they could all return home.
(http://s7.postimage.org/ygjwvfg9n/knightinforest.png) (http://postimage.org/)


Wazork swung his mighty club in a large arch into the heads of both the goblins arguing. “Quiet… Me is thinking”, the centre of the argument, a small baked rotten, still in the hands of the newly dead greenskins, fell to the ground and was quickly snatched by a snotling standing nearby. Wazork had been looking at the map for hours. Map was perhaps an overstatement. It was a drawing made with a chopped off human finger on bark, and Wazork had to decipher which marks were intended and which were accidental drops of blood from the oozing  “pen”. They had been here for a month now, looking for some mythical herbs for a brew that could make a snotling as strong as the greatest of black orcs. Wazork was a practical orc, and had ordered all kinds of plants to be gathered. One at the time he fed them to a “volunteering” snotling that was sequentially hit with Wazorks club to test if the herbs had given them the strength of black orcs. Needless to say, the pile of dead snotlings was growing quite fast.
(http://s17.postimage.org/jc47csr0v/orc.png) (http://postimage.org/)


The expeditionary force of the Bishop of Bechhofen – Ostland.  --2500pt on the nose


Conrad von Dürhaben   
   General of the Empire Full plate, shield, helm of skaven slayer   
      
Frederick von Braunschweig
   Captain Full plate, BSB, enchanted shield   

Didrick von Ziggelssov  - Master of Holy Artifacts    
Wizard lvl4 Light w Staff of Stability   
      
Victor Middelhof- Apprentice of Holy Artifacts    
Wizard lvl 2 ligth, Dispel Scroll   
      
      
Karl Sigismund - envoy of the Bishop of Bechhofen   
Luthor Huss
      
      
William der Erleuchtete - Priest of Bechhofen   
Priest Charmed shield, heavy armour   
      
Henrik der Gerechte -  Priest of Bechhofen   
Priest Heavy armour, shield   
      
Bukenhaven 3rd sharp shooters   
10 Archers   
   5 Crossbows   
   5 Crossbows   
      
Count's pathfinders    
10 Hunters
      
Bechhofen 7rd scout platoon   
5 x Pistoleirs w musician
      
Guards of the Envoy   
11 IC knights   w. Full Command   
      
Bechhofen 54rd expeditionary guards   
38 Halberdiers   w.Full Command   
   15 Halberdiers   
   5 Archers   
      
Bechhofen 55rd expeditionary guards   
38 Halberdiers   w. Full Command   
   14 Halberdiers   
   5 Archers   
      
Bechhofen 4rd light artillery battery   
2x Hellstorm



Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 22, 2012, 05:18:37 PM
I´m would like to take up a few of your suggestions (like turning the Huntsmen into Archers, or using Luthor Huss as the general).
Here´s my suggestion:

- Arch Lector
- 40 Huntsmen
- 1 Flagellant
-1 Gleaming Pennant on Knights
+ Luthor Huss
+ 40 Archers
+ Standard of Discipline on Knights
+ Hellstorm Rocket Battery (just because it´s fun and causes the kind of carnage religious fanatics get off on  :icon_twisted:).

I didn´t include the War Altar because it doesn´t seem very fluffy to me, but of course that would be a nice suggestion too.

If the list is voted in we can decide if we want to change it or not (def. switch the Huntsmen for Archers, oc).
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 23, 2012, 12:08:29 AM
The Cult of Ulric

This list will take us to 10 total.  I would like to see more but 10 gives us a good selection.


I modified my Ulric-based 2500 list to make it fluffy.  Gone is my beloved Steam Tank…but it is replaced by a War Altar, some Flaggellants and a Luminark!

Tired of the politics of the Empire and the veneration of Sigmar over the Ulric, this band left Middenheim to strike it out on their own-  conducting raids deep into Orc and Goblin territory to rid the Empore of the plague of the Greenskins.

Led by Arch Lector Dominus Snow, they have crafted their own War Altar with a gigantic wolf statue on it as their mascot and symbol to Ulric.  Many Middenheim veterans left home with them-  they have 38 Greatswords and 14 Knight of the White Wolf in their ranks.  Veterans of fighting in the woods, the Knights sport the Ranger banner which allows them to use their horse in difficult terrain without fear of losing numbers in the terrain.  They have accurate Archers that scout and screen their forces-  and are adept in the Wolf Formation-  their modification of the popular Empire Griffon Formation.

They have gathered a crazed militia of rabble rousers who are so dedicated to Ulric, they will willingly sacrifice themselves in battle-  as well as matyr their own forces due to self-flaggelation to honor of Ulric!

While they have no long range mundane missile or artillery attacks-  they are still able to blast their foes from a distance with magic-  Bolts of Illumination, and Banishments fly from their war chariots as well as from their Wizard, Gregor, a high level Wizard adept in the Lore of Light.

They have crushed several Orc and Goblin encampments as they are pushing deep into the mountains.  They are on a mission from Ulric!



Ulric’s Own

Arch Lector Dominus Snow (Gen)  on War Altar with “Horn of Ulric” 
     Sword of Might, Charmed Shield, White Cloak of Ulric, Other Tricksters Shard

14 Inner Circle Knights “Gold Banner” FC, GW, Ranger Banner
     Warrior Priest Hector Snow  Barded Mount, HW, HA, Dragonhelm

38 Teutogen Guard (Greatswords) “Ulric’s Own”  FC
     Captain Frederick Von Strauss (BSB)  Sword of Battle, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone
     Warrior Priest Reginald Black  HW, HA, Shield, Ironcurse Icon

     15 Hammerer Det (Swordsmen) 

24 Flagellants (Champ)

10 Archers “Rommel’s Rangers”
   5 Archer Detachment
   5 Archer Detachment

10 Archers “Rommel’s Rearguard”
  Musician
     Gregor Lvl 4 Light Wizard, Dispel Scroll 

Luminark   


Why you would vote for Ulric’s Own

Several new things we haven’t done yet in a TDG:

--Seeing the War Altar in action
--Seeing Flagellants in action-  buffed by the War Altar, Luminark, and Light Magic
--Using Lore of Light and potentially having a Str 5 Banishment from the War Altar
--No arty, but using magic for long range nukes
--And finally-  what isn’t to love about Ulric, prayers, and close combat???


---------------------------------------------

I am preparing a summary of the lists so you can compare them and then we will start voting.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 23, 2012, 03:55:50 AM
Here are brief descriptions:

Talabecland 28th Light Brigade
Cult of Taal.  Outriders, Demigryphs, Witch Hunters.  A Beast Wizard on a Griffon!  This list is all kinds of fun.


Crusading Army of Sigmar
Crusaders out of Nuln bent on destruction.  Greatswords, cannons, Hurri and a Lvl 4 Fire Wizard!  This force will put a hurt anyone.


Order of the Golden Hawk
A very mobile force out of Nordland.  Free Company and Halbs hold the line to protect the cannons, while Inner Circle Knights, Outriders, Pistoliers and lots of Huntsmen disrupt the enemy.  Good fun.


Ravaging Hordes of Stirland
War Altar, Flagellants, Archers and Crossbows protect a nasty gunline sporting a cannon, mortar, Helblaster and Helstorm!


Escorted Gunnery Train
Templar with Knights Panther and lots of ranged units protecting another gunline-  2 cannons, mortar, Helblaster and Helstorm!


Nuln School of Engineering Experimental
As per the name, another gunline.  3 units of Handgunners, 2 Outriders and 1 unit of Halbs protect 2 cannons, a Helblaster, and a Helstorm.  A STank thrown in for good measure!


Crusading Knights Panther
Made for desert fighting, they have 2 units of Knights, a big unit of 6 Demis! assisting Spearmen, Greatswords, and Halbs.  Metal Wizard for nukes.  Lots of different troops to see in this one.


Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar
4 Witch Hunters running around with Archers!  2 blocks of Flaggies!  ICK and Free Company round out the list.  Lots of personality in this one.


Ostland Expeditionary force of the Bishop of Bechhofen
Luthor Huss, 2 Light Wizards, 2 Halb blocks with lots of detachments.  A little bit of everything-  Knights, crossbows, archers, Huntsmen, Pistoliers, and 2 Helstorms!  Would be fun.


Cult of Ulric-  Ulric’s Own
A War Altar, Luminark, and Light Wizard back up a Greatsword block, Flaggies, and a big block of great weapon-wielding Knights.  The wolf fanatics can put out all kinds of hurt.


----------------------------------
So, there you have it.

Even if you want to play the bad guys this time, go ahead and vote on the Empire list.

All these lists are fluffy-  so vote with the fluff you like that has the units/tactics that you would like to test out.

With only 10 lists total we are going to only vote on your top three-  just list them by name in order.

Top votes will get 3 points, 2nd place votes 2 points, and 3rd place votes 1 point.

Also-  let me know if you want to do the bad guys this time.  I plan to use a fluffy O&G list to go against our fluff.  So far, Sevensins, Mr A, Noght, Wind, Mottdon have shown interest in assisting me with O&G.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Eighty on November 23, 2012, 04:01:06 AM
I Like the idea of not bringing a cannon (sorry cannon lists!)

my lists in order of preference

1)Crusading Knights Panther
- i like the idea of trying things we havent tried before in our games.

2) SIGMAR SIGMAR SIGMAR
- its all in the name really, sounds fun

3)Cult of Ulric
Probably the fluffiest list.

Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: EmpiresArsenal on November 23, 2012, 04:57:31 AM
I like the idea of throwing flaggies in the army. I have failed to use them effectively this edition so I'd like to see them in action.
TOP 3:

1. Sigmar, Sigmar , Sigmar
2. Cult of Ulric- Ulrics Own
3.Ostland Expeditionary Force of the Bishop of Bechhofen.

Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 23, 2012, 07:18:03 AM
1. Talabecland Light Brigade (It´s an unusual build and I want to see that Griffon in action! Just hope we´re not meeting any Dwarves... ::heretic::)
2. SIGMAR! (Ok, voting for myself again....so sue me...or, rather, don´t sue me. Yeah, don´t sue me, I´d prefer that.)
3. Nuln School of Engineering (Something completely different from the other two lists, but I love Nuln fluff as well, so there.)
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SorenJ on November 23, 2012, 07:30:48 AM
1. Cult of Ulric-  Ulric’s Own
2. Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar
3. Talabecland 28th Light Brigade

Think the idea of an army of Ulric is sweet and thought about doing it myself.:eusa_clap: Looking forward to see how well those 2+knights w. GW will do.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 23, 2012, 08:56:27 AM
1st Ostland Expeditionary force of the Bishop of Bechhofen
2nd Talabecland 28th Light Brigade
3rd Cult of Ulric-  Ulric’s Own

Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zakalwe on November 23, 2012, 09:28:26 AM
1.Ravaging hordes of stirland ( flaggies, fire, and rockets, all manned by peasants)
2. Nuln experimental war brigade. give the general a pistol at least. Everyone who can have a gunpowder weapon, should!
3. Fluffing of sigmar.    Proof that artillery is not needed when you have faith.  :engel:



Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Hieronymus on November 23, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
1) Order of the Golden Hawk (my list! Also, no one voted for it yet! sadface)
2) Cult of Ulric
3) Nuln Gunnery Train

Not sure how any list that has a Demigryph/Steam Tank in it really counts. Seems everyone is really hung up on the War Altar and Flagellant combination.

Quick question - we never really pinned down what was meant by fluffy. Do we mean; 'fluff' as in story, which could be any old Empire List as long as there was a reason for it being put together; 'fluff' unit choices, i.e. those unit choices that would not be designated as 'hard', 'strong', 'competitive'; or 'fluff' lists, lists which are themed around a specific piece of Warhammer fluff.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 23, 2012, 01:42:44 PM
Quick question - we never really pinned down what was meant by fluffy. Do we mean; 'fluff' as in story, which could be any old Empire List as long as there was a reason for it being put together; 'fluff' unit choices, i.e. those unit choices that would not be designated as 'hard', 'strong', 'competitive'; or 'fluff' lists, lists which are themed around a specific piece of Warhammer fluff.

Both.
No hard or fast rules obviously...one man's fluff might be another man's cheese...!   :Ohmy:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Hieronymus on November 23, 2012, 02:03:00 PM
Thank you for clearing that up HHG.

Interesting Idea Have you ever considered trying to run a competition between the different Warhammer Empire and one of the other army forums e.g. Chamber of the Everchosen, Da Warpath, Asrai.org, Druchii.net, The Underempire, The Herdstone, Bugmans etc. It could well have been suggested before, and if I'm just raking up old coals, then I apologise.

Could potentially be a real hassle to organise, I appreciate that, but as a one-off test, it certainly could prove entertaining.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: TCWarroom on November 23, 2012, 02:05:34 PM
1. Ostland Expeditionary force of the Bishop of Bechhofen

2. Nuln School of Engineering Experimental

3. Crusading Knights Panther
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 23, 2012, 03:56:15 PM
HHG, I think your Cult of Ulric-list needs some tweaking as it doesn´t have enough Core troops.

Knights (380) + Archers (210) is only 590 points, not the 625 required for the 25% rule. Right?
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 23, 2012, 04:07:11 PM

Quick question - we never really pinned down what was meant by fluffy. Do we mean; 'fluff' as in story, which could be any old Empire List as long as there was a reason for it being put together; 'fluff' unit choices, i.e. those unit choices that would not be designated as 'hard', 'strong', 'competitive'; or 'fluff' lists, lists which are themed around a specific piece of Warhammer fluff.

Good question!

I think "fluff" is generally used to describe something closely related to the background material in Warhammer. So for example, a "fluffy" list could be Ulric-themed like HHG´s entry here, based around a certain province, etc.
The "problem", so to speak, is that, in my opinion, a good storyteller will be able to make basically any list "fluffy". Steamtanks? Well, they have to be transported around the Empire at some point. Demigryphs in your army? Maybe they´re a secluded sect of Knights that stumbled across the Steamtank transport. Helbardiers? Well, somebody has to defend the valuable STanks...and so on.

So I think when talking about a "fluffy" army, there´s another dimension, and that is the power level of the list. A list that makes all the "optimal" choices could still have some great background written for it, present in their tabletop presentation, etc; but most people probably wouldn´t consider that very fluffy. Therefore, it also means a list that includes some sub-optimal choices or combinations.

Aaaand...I just realized I wrote in two paragraphs what HHG summed up in two words. Yay for being bored at the office but not reading all of the thread before posting.  :-D
Title: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 23, 2012, 04:50:01 PM
.

Aaaand...I just realized I wrote in two paragraphs what HHG summed up in two words. Yay for being bored at the office but not reading all of the thread before posting.  :-D


Know that feeling!
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zifnab0 on November 23, 2012, 04:52:41 PM
1) Talabecland 28th Light Brigade - Like you said, lots of stuff we haven't tried before.
2) Crusading Knights Panther - Metal wizard!
3) Ravaging Hordes of Stirland - I like the idea of flagellants and a gunline.  Why not both?

I'd be able to help with the O&G this turn.  I'd also be happy sticking with the loyal empire troops.
Title: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 23, 2012, 04:53:54 PM
Thank you for clearing that up HHG.

Interesting Idea Have you ever considered trying to run a competition between the different Warhammer Empire and one of the other army forums e.g. Chamber of the Everchosen, Da Warpath, Asrai.org, Druchii.net, The Underempire, The Herdstone, Bugmans etc. It could well have been suggested before, and if I'm just raking up old coals, then I apologise.

Could potentially be a real hassle to organise, I appreciate that, but as a one-off test, it certainly could prove entertaining.

I think if we could just get around the publication bias of battle reports, so that people also put in the effort of making their defeats public we would have af really good grasp of what challenges the empire!
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Joey_Boy on November 23, 2012, 05:23:29 PM
1 Talabecland 28th Light Brigade I need to get som motivation to start painting the assembled and converted minis I have!
2 Order of the Golden Hawk I love Heavens magic and I really like the Nordland fluff in general!
3 Escorted Gunnery Train I would have loved to see 3 mortars and 2 Hellstorms but the fact that it has so many WM is just cool!

Yeah, I voted for myself. But mostly because I need something to help get me started painting the guys s I'm too much into the converting right now and need to get some things finished  :blush:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Harshey on November 23, 2012, 10:19:10 PM
I'll play the O&G as well. I sent you a list too.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 23, 2012, 11:09:11 PM
HHG, I think your Cult of Ulric-list needs some tweaking as it doesn´t have enough Core troops.

Knights (380) + Archers (210) is only 590 points, not the 625 required for the 25% rule. Right?

Knights are 430-  they have the Ranger Banner.

Archers are 230-  150+35+35+80.

That puts me at 660 for core.   :wink:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: librisrouge on November 23, 2012, 11:18:12 PM
1- Escorted Gunnery Train
2- Nuln School of Engineering Experimental
3- Talabecland 28th Light Brigade
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Half-Light on November 24, 2012, 12:01:19 AM
1) Talabecland 28th Light Brigade
2) Order of the Golden Hawk
3) Nuln School of Engineering Experimental
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 24, 2012, 12:58:10 AM
HHG, I think your Cult of Ulric-list needs some tweaking as it doesn´t have enough Core troops.

Knights (380) + Archers (210) is only 590 points, not the 625 required for the 25% rule. Right?

Knights are 430-  they have the Ranger Banner.

Archers are 230-  150+35+35+80.

That puts me at 660 for core.   :wink:

Ah, a magic banner. Pricey, but should certainly come in handy in Middenland.  :icon_surprised:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Big Brother on November 24, 2012, 01:23:27 AM
1 Ravaging Hoards
2 Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar
3 Ostland Expeditionary

Voted for my own, but mostly because I want to see lots of attacks from unarmored nut cases :)
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Noght on November 24, 2012, 05:19:49 AM
1.  Golden Hawk
2.  Ulric's Own
3.  Sigmar x3
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Dnic on November 24, 2012, 07:59:47 AM
1. Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar
2. Cult of Ulric-  Ulric’s Own
3. Ostland Expeditionary force of the Bishop of Bechhofen
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 24, 2012, 09:37:14 AM
I was going to close it out...but unfortunately we are currently at a tie:

28th Light Brigade and Sigmar, Sigmar, Sigmar each have 16...and Cult of Ulric has 13.

----------------------------------------

If you haven't voted yet-  please just vote on those 3 so we can break the tie and get a winner.

If you have voted, and didn't vote for any of those 3- give me your preference of them in order since your lists are out of contention.

I will give it another half day or so.

HHG
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: mrth0msen on November 24, 2012, 10:07:26 AM
1: 28th brigade
2: cult
3: sigmar
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: satch on November 24, 2012, 05:20:15 PM
1:sigmar
2: 28th brigade
3: cult
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Carolus Rex on November 24, 2012, 05:51:36 PM
Hi I really want to see what 2 10 man units of outriders and a beastmage on griffon can do on the battlefield.

1: 28th brigade
2: cult
3: sigmar
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 24, 2012, 10:30:43 PM
Hi I really want to see what 2 10 man units of outriders and a beastmage on griffon can do on the battlefield.

1: 28th brigade
2: cult
3: sigmar

Well brother, you get your wish. 


The 28th Light Brigade wins it!


However, we are not done voting yet....since the 28th has 3 different variants in it!

Vote for which variant you want to go with.  1 to 3.


Talabecland 28th Light Brigade

High Priest of Taal (Boort the Fierce): lvl4 (Lore of Beast), Fencer's Blades, White Cloak of Taal, Ironcurse Icon, Griffon /w Bloodroar. 485 Pts

Captain of the Empire(Cpt. Karl af Krussen): FPA, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Might, Dawn Stone. 141 Pts

Warrior Priest of Taal(Gustaf von Straussen): General, Great Axe, Armour of Meteoric Iron.  120 Pts

Witch Hunter(Von Hafling): Brace of Pistols. 55 Pts

Witch Hunter(Solomon Krane): Brace of Pistols. 55 Pts

Battle Wizard of the Celestial Order(Magnus the Seer): Dispel Scroll. 90 Pts

50 Halberdiers: Full Command. 330 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts

10 Archers: Musician. 80 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts

10 Archers: Musician. 80 Pts
Detachment - 5 Archers. 35 Pts
     
4 Stag Knights of Taal (Demigryph Knights): Musician. 242 Pts

10 Blunderbuss Shock Cavalry (Outriders): Musician. 220 Pts

10 Blunderbuss Shock Cavalry (Outriders): Musician. 220 Pts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt, 1.
The defenders of Kappelburg.

1 Cart mounted Great Cannon. 120 Pts

1 Cart mounted Great Cannon. 120 Pts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt, 2.
The patrol force.

5 Road Wardens(Pistoleers): Musician, Outrider /w repeater pistol. 120 Pts

5 Road Wardens(Pistoleers): Musician, Outrider /w repeater pistol. 120 Pts
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alt, 3.
The rapid response force.

8 Inner Circle Knights of Taal: Full Command, Banner of The Eternal Flame. 240 Pts

 :::cheers:::
HHG
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 24, 2012, 10:54:31 PM
Yay! Griffon power!

I vote Var. 1. Boring, but it will fill a gap in out list (i.e. taking on big meanies).
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Carolus Rex on November 24, 2012, 11:12:39 PM
I vote for Alt, 1.

I think it would be very interesting to see this list vs Ulric’s Own.


Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Hieronymus on November 24, 2012, 11:40:36 PM
Option 3 - we have enough shooting, fairly certain that Taal is not the God of gunpowder!
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Harshey on November 25, 2012, 12:21:22 AM
The list needs another combat unit, I vote for the knights. Alt 3.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Noght on November 25, 2012, 12:28:45 AM
Version 3, agree with Hier and Hars, needs more Pointy Bits.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zifnab0 on November 25, 2012, 12:52:45 AM
Option 3.  More knights, why not?
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: TCWarroom on November 25, 2012, 03:49:58 AM
1 please.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: librisrouge on November 25, 2012, 04:37:51 AM
I like pistoliers and being contrary. I vote #2.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Big Brother on November 25, 2012, 05:15:38 AM
Ditto for me. #2
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Windelov on November 25, 2012, 06:58:15 AM
Knights please #3
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SorenJ on November 25, 2012, 07:59:39 AM
I vote knights #3 - not very fluffy but very much needed.

What is the overall plan for the wiz on grif?
Quote
High Priest of Taal (Boort the Fierce): lvl4 (Lore of Beast), Fencer's Blades, White Cloak of Taal, Ironcurse Icon, Griffon /w Bloodroar. 485 Pts
Fencers blades? You don't get add attack and enemies will just choose to attack the griffon instead. Ironcurse Icon, if you use this then the 5+ ward from the White Cloak is lost (models can only have one ward save).

I think there are two options:

1) Character hunt and/or engage enemy units in flank. This means: Van Horstmann's Spec + OTS + Talisman of End/Pre. Since it will most likely do the charging it can issue a challenge, then let the griffon rip the other character to pieces.

2) Warmachine hunt/ flank protection. Which requires something like: White Cloack, Bloadroar and Two heads ...

Either way the current setup is a bit in between and needs to be altered so that it ca do one specific task. (IMO)
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 25, 2012, 10:42:02 AM
What is the overall plan for the wiz on grif?
Quote
High Priest of Taal (Boort the Fierce): lvl4 (Lore of Beast), Fencer's Blades, White Cloak of Taal, Ironcurse Icon, Griffon /w Bloodroar. 485 Pts
Fencers blades? You don't get add attack and enemies will just choose to attack the griffon instead. Ironcurse Icon, if you use this then the 5+ ward from the White Cloak is lost (models can only have one ward save).

Not sure what you mean by "add attack" (why wouldn't a Wiz with two blades not get two attacks?) but I think the intent with the Ironcurse Icon is to pass a 6+ save on to the mount.  (The mount being part of the "unit.")

Template weapons hit both...so then you get a 5++ for the Wiz and a 6++ for the Griffon.  (There are other examples of things with two different Ward saves-  for instance an Arch Lector on WAltar has nothing unless you give him one....but the chariot itself has a 4++.)

The Cloak gives a -1 on on to-hit rolls-  so the Griffon will benefit as well. 

It is a unique build, IMHO.  Total domination if the crazy Taal bastard gets Savage Beasts of Horrors off too....

Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zakalwe on November 25, 2012, 11:15:06 AM
You do get the +1 attack for fencers blades as it gives an extra attack under the paired weapon rules. Rather than counting as AHW.

Anyway I'll go with option 3 too. I think the knights would complete the hierarchy nicely.



Somehow i completely missed that this army was lead by a beast mage on griffon.  Its an idea I've been thinking of trying for a while myself. should be fun  :biggriin:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: SorenJ on November 25, 2012, 11:44:07 AM
Yes, I get the White cloack. I also get the fact that wiz has a 5++ and grif gets a 6++ vs warmachines. I just don't think a 6++ is worth it, in the sense that it takes up a magic item (Enhanted items) slot.

I didn't think paired weapons gave mounted models an additional attack. However, reading up on the rules I see that they do. I stand corrected ::heretic::

I still don't see its role on the battlefield though - but I guess I'll find out.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 25, 2012, 01:03:22 PM
Knights it is.

Unless you have any minor list tweaks at this point that is what we are going to run with.

I started the thread for the bad guys-  Gnarltooth's Forest Goblin Crew.  Only visit that thread if you are planning on assisting me with the bad guys.

I will start the 28th Light Bridge thread tomorrow.  We need to give the O&G crew some time to get their game plan together.

Since this is a "fluff" TDG and Joey-Boy's list is the winner, I am going to see if he can write up some fluff after each turn.  If he is too busy to do it, I will open it up to anyone who wants to do it.  I am asking the O&G team for some fluff input on their turn as well so we can see the battle from the view of both armies.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: librisrouge on November 25, 2012, 03:26:35 PM
Judging by the title of our enemies we're facing a forest goblin army  :icon_twisted:

I guess we can do some pre-game strategy until we get our thread posted:

And, of course, well likely go up against 1-2 ARACKNORAK!  ::heretic::

Should be fun.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: grifter on November 25, 2012, 05:13:19 PM
Judging by the title of our enemies we're facing a forest goblin army  :icon_twisted:

I guess we can do some pre-game strategy until we get our thread posted:
  • We're likely facing against a lot of fast cavalry, either wolf or spider, so our outriders should deploy to flanks to take them out. Only we get to play the chaff game here. One salvo of 10 repeaters should snuff a five gabbo spider or wolf unit.
  • Goblin leadership sucks and we have bloodroar. We'll need to take advantage of that.
  • All the poison that will no doubt be on the table makes me glad we ended up taking knight, even if I did vote otherwise.
  • I don't doubt that we'll see a lot of warmachines amongst this enemy. With that in mind, we should just take the sig spell with out lvl 1 and use it on rock lobbas or doom divers if we can. Being the fastest thing in our army, the griffon may also have to go warmachine hunting. The Spear spell will also help here.
  • Lots of characters means lots of targets for our witch hunters. I get a feeling we'll want them out of a unit to go a hunting.

And, of course, well likely go up against 1-2 ARACKNORAK!  ::heretic::

Should be fun.

Arachnaroks make me feel like we really should have gone with the cannons...hope they only bring 1. Knights should prove useful too, I think Gobbos have a problem with 1+ saves, no?

Otherwise it´s to early to tell with Gobbos...could be vast hordes of infantry, tons of fast little annoyers, lots of characters, lots of artillery, lots of monsters, tons of horrible shamans...should be fun either way!

All in all, our Blood Roar Griffon should definitly get a chance to shine...just hope it doesn´t get splatted by a lucky Doom Diver! :icon_eek:
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: zakalwe on November 25, 2012, 11:24:15 PM
Watch out for snaggla ( or whatever his name is) a forest goblin hero.

Has a special unit he cna take that can ambush i believe and have better stats, I think they also hate empire and his combat prowess isn't half bad for a goblin.

There could also be some savage orcs thrown in, a forest goblin/savage orc army is a sort of fluff list i've thought about taking before.

Anyway it should be fun.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Holy Hand Grenade on November 26, 2012, 04:28:44 AM
Move on over to the new thread The 28th Light Brigade if you are going to stay with the Empire.

I need some more to help me with the Goblin Crew...so if you want to do that, check out that thread.

May the best fluff win!

HHG
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: GamesPoet on November 27, 2012, 03:45:29 AM
Wow, this looks like fun!

Haven't looked at the other threads yet, but think I'll just observe this one, and not participate in the decision making.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: Noght on November 27, 2012, 11:54:15 AM
Wow, this looks like fun!

Haven't looked at the other threads yet, but think I'll just observe this one, and not participate in the decision making.

HHG is doing awesome stuff, go back and re-read some of the old threads, brilliant.  Lots of good Generalship going on.
Title: Re: Tactical Decision Game 4: Bring out the Fluff
Post by: GamesPoet on November 27, 2012, 12:17:44 PM
The series of threads being facilitated by HHG have been being read by me, and even occassionally input has been provided.

And been learning plenty from those who've been participating more than me.  Much appreciated. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::