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Author Topic: Flagellants  (Read 2625 times)

Offline KTG17

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Flagellants
« on: May 03, 2020, 02:46:22 AM »
Are these guys more likely to be found in certain provinces? Fluff-wise.

I have a unit I have to either give to Reikland or Marienburg. My problem is that Reikland seems super serious to share the battlefield with simple looking rabble, and just aren’t fancy enough for Marienburg.

I am leaning towards Reikland.

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2020, 03:16:46 AM »
They are the equivalent of both dooms day preppers and god-bothering halfwits. They are a common sight in every province

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 07:53:48 AM »
Flagellants are seeking battles, to die fighting the enemies of man.

So where there's a war (against some inhuman enemy), there will be flagellants.

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Offline KTG17

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2020, 04:45:06 PM »
Ok, I guess I can paint them to look generic and then use them for either.

Offline lt dougheim

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2020, 11:58:24 PM »
Thats what I would go for.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2020, 05:59:44 AM »
I've had some fun painting some of the rags as echoing the colours of some provinces. To suggest some of the flagellants were once regular soldiers, even knights.

It's one of the many ways to make a 'mixed province' regiment.

-Z
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Offline Victor

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2020, 02:29:43 PM »

I have a unit I have to either give to Reikland or Marienburg. My problem is that Reikland seems super serious to share the battlefield with simple looking rabble, and just aren’t fancy enough for Marienburg.


One thing for consideration: While we, as a player, have to 'pay' for a unit of flagellants for the sake of game balance, this would most likely not be the case for the Army General. Maybe some (leftover) food will be supplied, but otherwise the flagellants will fight, because they want to. I reckon they would be a welcome addition on the battlefield. Not so welcome in the army camp though. If they all die, you don't have to report the heavy losses to your superior, because no one cares. A win-win situation I guess.


Offline Warlord

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 02:47:53 PM »
Marienburg strikes me as capitalist driven, and not wanting religious fanatics around because it might discourage business.
Riekland / Altdorf is the centre of the church of sigmar. Seems like a decent fit to me.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 05:12:01 PM »
I agree with Warlord.
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Offline Novogord

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 08:58:05 AM »
Marienburg strikes me as capitalist driven, and not wanting religious fanatics around because it might discourage business.
True, but I can still image some ex-soldiers or mentally ill people wandering around in the lesser parts of the city. Every great city will have slums or something like that.
And when an army marches out, some of these might follow the army-train. Following in after the wives, cooks, camp followers,...
So, probably their will be less of these, I still think it is possible.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2020, 09:51:25 AM »
Marienburg armies probably don't fight within the city. When they march off, the Flagellants will join them. They need not be from Marienburg, but they will become part of the army.

Heck, the Marienburgers fancy mercenary armies. What's better than to 'hire' warriors who fight for the fate, and probably don't survive to collect their pay anyway?  :wink:

-Z
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Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2020, 12:09:09 PM »
There's no reason why you CANT paint them whatever colour you chose. Flaggelants are often depicted in drab colours to represent ill-treatment and disregard of hygiene

Offline KTG17

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2020, 01:02:02 PM »
True, but in my head I have to envision whats going on in my army as I am building them. I like to work with an overall theme than just put units together.

So Reikland it is! Based on what was said here I think that makes sense.

Also - Zygmund mention not fighting within the city... I have read this kind of thing historically, and for example in that movie Troy, it showed the defending army leaving the city to fight in front of it. Any idea why the heck anyone would do this? I mean, if you have city walls and all, use them.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Flagellants
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2020, 01:33:13 PM »
Also - Zygmund mention not fighting within the city... I have read this kind of thing historically, and for example in that movie Troy, it showed the defending army leaving the city to fight in front of it. Any idea why the heck anyone would do this? I mean, if you have city walls and all, use them.

My idea is that Empire armies, especially during civil wars, seldom need to defend their capitals. Instead, battles are fought closer to the 'front', maybe defending smaller cities. This doesn't rule out getting besieged in your capital city. I guess it must have happened to every Empire capital city at one point or another, and these battles are the grand ones that are being remembered and written alot. But I imagine it's quite rare.

...

As to why the Greeks seem to have given battle outside of their city walls before the Persian and Peloponnese Wars, I can give two reasons, both of which were heavily debated at the time and are heavily debated still among the historians:

1) Battles were in some way more tribal and more honorable. There was an agreement when and where to conduct the battle, there was less slaughter after the battle, and usually a peace afterwards. Stories that tell of a heroes' fight in front of the armies might actually be true, and echo modern 19th century accounts of tribes encountered by Europeans. It's a way to spare people and resources, and maybe fight another day. If a city was besieged and subjugated, the whole population was often either sold to slavery or slaughtered. So there was a reason to give fight outside and accept the peace terms instead of getting besieged and fight to the bitter end. Archaic cities could be relatively small too, with little space for the entire population and storages to keep them nourished during a siege.

2) Although there were cities, the population of the cities was often tightly tied to the surrounding countryside. Archaic cities were city-states, and the 'state' was much more than the city only. Actually, cities might have a predominantly slave or foreign population, whereas most of the citizens lived in the countryside. If an enemy army was pillaging the countryside, most citizens would want to protect their fields & houses in the rural hinterland. The city-dwellers were thus highly motivated to leave the protection of the walls and to give battle to the enemy.

Both 1) and 2) started to change already in the Greek/Hellenistic times. The Empire of the Old World is in many ways completely different to archaic Mediterranean and Near East.

To start with, the population of the Empire cities usually forms a juridically independent body, not tied to the surrounding countryside. This follows the medieval pattern of locally independent communities and cities. Think of the citizens of Visby closing the gates and watching how the Danish army slaughtered the Gotland peasants outside of the city walls in 1381, and then making separate peace with the invader (practically paying the Danish mercenaries by allowing the troops to pillage the city). The archaic Greeks would not have understood why such was possible - i.e. why the urban and rural population wouldn't have fought as one body.

-Z
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