Topic: Tactical Decision Game 2.4: The Plot Thickens

[zakalwe]

Looking at the map, if we pivot and steam towards and move 2 dice aiming at the gap between DR and exec's we can get all 5 DR with Steam gun and only allow the executioners an awkward frontal charge.
I believe we could do this without modifying the HBVG's hit chances on the execs.

depending on how magic phase goes, yes boosted convergence and iceshard on the executioners. Perhaps even another comet between the spears and small bunker, if we have the dice.

[Noght]

 iceshard on the executioners.

Plus 6 Arty dice = 8 wounds, panic check on 7.  If they make that the Terror on 7 to charge STank?

[Fandir Nightshade]

We figured out that you don´t have to take terror checks from randomly moving targets.

(checked the english brb and there is no mentioning excepting terror and random move)

[zifnab0]

We figured out that you don´t have to take terror checks from randomly moving targets.

But if the Executioners charge the Steam Tank, they have to test, right?

[Noght]

We figured out that you don´t have to take terror checks from randomly moving targets.

But if the Executioners charge the Steam Tank, they have to test, right?

Correct.

Hmmm.  Not sure.  Can't find it in the book.  Old rule?

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I think both stanks could manage to shoot their repeater pistols at the harpies killing one or two of them a panic check is all we need.

The Steam Gun has a 360 degree arc of fire, but the Engineer has to shoot out of the forward firing arch with his repeater pistol.  In this situation, I think both tanks are going to be facing to the west and the Harpies are going to be out of the LOS.

HHG: What's your position on the Executioners reforming after combat to present their rear to the steam tank and their front to the DG?  Legal or not?[/color]

I have read threads in the past on this.  I think the jury is still out on how legal it is if you have a command group.  So-  to avoid any issues-  it is not legal in this tournament.

We figured out that you don´t have to take terror checks from randomly moving targets.

But if the Executioners charge the Steam Tank, they have to test, right?

Correct.

Hmmm.  Not sure.  Can't find it in the book.  Old rule?

Terror only comes into play when the Terror unit charges a target-  not when a unit charges the Terror unit.  In this case, the Executioners will only have to pass a Fear test during the combat phase.

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Team Leaders-  we will give this one more day for day for input/tweaks.  By the end of today/early tomorrow give me a thumbs-up when you think you have finally settled on a plan.

[grifter]

If we plow into the DR and kill them all, what is to stop the executioners from flank charging the STank.   Would both HBVG shoot the executioners, to aid the flank. if not steam tank will suffer/ could even die if it got hit in the flank by 3 ranks of executioners.

Hell doing the maths, average says we will stick around.

What are we going to shoot the HBVG's at I think it would be preferable to shoot both at one target, exec's or spears.

Agree with Zif, no reason to rumble into Riders.  Shoot both Volley Guns into Spears.  9 wounds is a panic, though we could do more than that...

I feel like the flank needs our immediate attention more then the center, so I would shoot the Executioners. They just scare me a lot more then the Spearmen who might not see combat on their next turn, thus allowing us another round of shooting against them. And how big is the chance of them actually running away with the Lord and the BSB in there?

Agree on not charging the Riders with the STank though. Even if we don´t panic/obliterate them this turn, the 1-2 models left won´t be much of a threat even to a Hellblaster anymore.
Harmonic Convergence on the DG2 and Blizzard on the Executioners would be my wishes for the magic phase. Plus Thunderbolt on the Harpies if they´re not engaged/didn´t flee...hopefully one of those will get through at least.

[Fandir Nightshade]

See another thing learned.....cRAZY!

So HHG did I get it right that you advised against the fleeing of the stank because you thought that we only would use 2 dice on the move? It is for both stanks 3 dice for moving and one for cannonballing and maybe one for steam punking.....stupid rule about the front ark and repeater if you ask me. Well could be I am used to the old rules.

[zifnab0]

I feel like the flank needs our immediate attention more then the center, so I would shoot the Executioners.

Iceshard and shoot the Executioners.  8 wounds and they test at -1 Ld, although they're probably in range of the General and BSB.

I wish we could shoot DR2.

[Noght]

I feel like the flank needs our immediate attention more then the center, so I would shoot the Executioners.

Iceshard and shoot the Executioners.  8 wounds and they test at -1 Ld, although they're probably in range of the General and BSB.

I wish we could shoot DR2.

Well if we get Iceshard off, the fear will be at 7 LD, if they fail then 6's to hit.

[Empire - Ulric]

I just want to point out that we do not, under any circumstances want the Executioners getting a charge off on our Stank. There are simply too many of them left at this point. They will do some serious damage to it if not kill it Also remember this the Steam Tank does most of it's killing on the Turn it charges, that extra d6 impact hits makes a world of difference.

We have the advantage on the left right now and now is the time to press it. Ram the tank into the Executioners while we still can before we the Metal Mage melts/hexes our tank or starts buffing the executioners.

We can maneuver the DG's around for a flank charge next turn if you guys want, but the tank absolutely must get into combat this turn (this is why I wanted to move it forward last turn so a charge was almost a certainty)

So..... updated plan.

DG1: Move forward to within 1" of the Executioners so they cannot wheel past. Move out of Executioner front arc, position for a flank/rear charge against Executioners next turn.

Steam Tank: Use 3 dice to move, attempt to charge Executioners..

ICK: Move forward, staying 15" away from the Spearmen bus.  Rearrange characters in the unit so that the Lord cannot be in base contact with either Huss or the BSB.  If Lord is in the center of the Spearmen, move Huss and BSB to the edges of ICK.  If he is on one side or the other, move Huss and BSB to the opposite side of ICK.

Reiksguard: Charge Shades, set up overrun into Hydra if they don't flee

DG2: Charge Hydra.

Kn2: Charge Harpies, if they flee redirect into shades (if visible)

Other considerations:

Magic: Key Spells are Convergence on the Tank, Comet to the side of the Spearmen (we want to force them to move forward) Everything else depends on what happens in the movement phase.

Shooting: Steam gun on Executioners, HBVG on the Dark Riders, other Volley Gun on the Spearmen with all the characters.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

See another thing learned.....cRAZY!

So HHG did I get it right that you advised against the fleeing of the stank because you thought that we only would use 2 dice on the move?

I was advising against moving the STank closer to the Harpies to try and get off a gun shot in addition to the cannon-  only because the Executioners have a decent charge range and by doing this you are only bringing them back into the fight quicker.

I was going to suggest the STank 1 shot against the front row full of characters in the Warrior horde because it seems like the best use of the shot...but then I remembered I have to remain somewhat impartial (even though I want Empire to win)!  It appears you thought of it as well, anyway.   

[grifter]

I just want to point out that we do not, under any circumstances want the Executioners getting a charge off on our Stank. There are simply too many of them left at this point. They will do some serious damage to it if not kill it Also remember this the Steam Tank does most of it's killing on the Turn it charges, that extra d6 impact hits makes a world of difference.

We have the advantage on the left right now and now is the time to press it. Ram the tank into the Executioners while we still can before we the Metal Mage melts/hexes our tank or starts buffing the executioners.

We can maneuver the DG's around for a flank charge next turn if you guys want, but the tank absolutely must get into combat this turn (this is why I wanted to move it forward last turn so a charge was almost a certainty)

So..... updated plan.

DG1: Move forward to within 1" of the Executioners so they cannot wheel past. Move out of Executioner front arc, position for a flank/rear charge against Executioners next turn.

Steam Tank: Use 3 dice to move, attempt to charge Executioners..

That was my original thinking as well, but two HBVG right into the Executioners´ faces are damn tempting as well. I´m fine with either option, charge the STank into them or position it in front of them and kill the DR with it while blasting the Exec´s.

ICK: Move forward, staying 15" away from the Spearmen bus.  Rearrange characters in the unit so that the Lord cannot be in base contact with either Huss or the BSB.  If Lord is in the center of the Spearmen, move Huss and BSB to the edges of ICK.  If he is on one side or the other, move Huss and BSB to the opposite side of ICK.

Reiksguard: Charge Shades, set up overrun into Hydra if they don't flee

DG2: Charge Hydra.

Kn2: Charge Harpies, if they flee redirect into shades (if visible)

I think we´re pretty much all in agreement here?

Other considerations:

Magic: Key Spells are Convergence on the Tank, Comet to the side of the Spearmen (we want to force them to move forward) Everything else depends on what happens in the movement phase.

Shooting: Steam gun on Executioners, HBVG on the Dark Riders, other Volley Gun on the Spearmen with all the characters.

I´d like the Convergence on the DG2 as well as on the STank. Tough choice, but in the end I don´t think the Dreadlord will let either one through so it won´t matter.
I like the Comet idea though, let´s see how many dice we get to work with.

[Harshey]

I think I agree with Ulric, but I not sure how you meant to move the Demis.  I was thinking about wheeling them so the executioners would have to wheel towards the board edge to charge them if the stank doesn't make it. If the stank makes it, the executioners will feels some pain, but will hold on their rerollable 10, probably 22 remaining.

If the stank doesn't make it, the executioners have to charge the Demis, but the stank might be in the way, so they can't close the door. Locally, we call this the eagle cock block (nought you know what I'm talking about).

Either way, the executioners areheld up for at least one turn and will need magical support to take out the tank.
I wish I knew how to paste a picture in from an iPad so people could see what I'm thinking....

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Okay TDG'ers...a little summary.

Here is how I see Blue wanting to move.  Let me know if anything needs to be changed.  The silver arrows are the direction the STanks will be heading.

Green is divided again on the left flank.  Below are two graphs that I think depict the two courses of action.  Green needs to vote on them and let me know if anything needs to be tweaked on them.  The east Knights are charging the Shades and then the Harpies.

Course of Action 1

Course of Action 2

[Noght]

If the stank doesn't make it, the executioners have to charge the Demis, but the stank might be in the way, so they can't close the door. Locally, we call this the eagle c**k block (nought you know what I'm talking about).

I wasn't sure the Empire Forum was ready for the DECB (Double Eagle C**k Block).  Essentially it's STank option 1 and DG1 option 2 movement.  Horde has to charge front arc, but it's unable to close door on either unit and maximize means no charge.  But it's EVIL.  Of course it would be perfect right here. 

Option 1.  Silly question?  Should we Steam template the 20 mm Exec bases and just shoot the Riders?

BTW.  If he flank charges the Reiksguard, we hold.  Challenge with champ and WP make way (to back rank) so the Spears aren't in BtB with rank and file.  Ward save prayer would be swell.  That means the Dreadlord has to kill the WP, he might not even be in contact if we are lucky.

[zifnab0]

Option 1.

I say 2 dice move and 2 dice steam gun on the Executioners.  The odds of rolling 12+ on 2d6 is too low for my tastes (~16%).

[Friar Metick]

I vote for course of action 1.

[George]

Here is how I see Blue wanting to move.  Let me know if anything needs to be changed.  The silver arrows are the direction the STanks will be heading.

i really don't like the look of the right flank this myself.

The steam tank i propose to sit between the harpies and executions (steaming the harpies) is the one that would shoot the spears so I don't feel it adds to our plan to get the metal mage.

The reiksguard I think need to enter the forest so they are able to charge the spear block next turn if we want. The small knights need to position them selves to be used to redirect either the spears or executioners depending on whether we charge the spears or not next turn. that said I like tha postion as it ties Dreadlord's charcters at he front if he overruns which lets the ICK hit the flank (guessing dreadlord wouldn't charge the archers let alone overrun in his turn though).

Also the 10 archers are likely hitting on 7s (moved, long range, hard cover) so this position only helps get off flock of doom, though we could shoot at the shades with the aid of the detachment next to the ruins if it faces the other way....best we could hope for is 3 dead and a failed panic check though)

[Harshey]

If the stank doesn't make it, the executioners have to charge the Demis, but the stank might be in the way, so they can't close the door. Locally, we call this the eagle c**k block (nought you know what I'm talking about).

I wasn't sure the Empire Forum was ready for the DECB (Double Eagle C**k Block).  Essentially it's STank option 1 and DG1 option 2 movement.  Horde has to charge front arc, but it's unable to close door on either unit and maximize means no charge.  But it's EVIL.  Of course it would be perfect right here. 

Option 1.  Silly question?  Should we Steam template the 20 mm Exec bases and just shoot the Riders?

BTW.  If he flank charges the Reiksguard, we hold.  Challenge with champ and WP make way (to back rank) so the Spears aren't in BtB with rank and file.  Ward save prayer would be swell.  That means the Dreadlord has to kill the WP, he might not even be in contact if we are lucky.

I thought we were sharing 
The ECB is evil, and is a total abuse of the rules, but not anymore than sticking a death Mage in with a ld10 character, or a dark elf wizard with power of darkness and a sacrificial dagger. So I say use it. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

If we decide on option one, I would rather steam gun the executioners. If we roll a 6-8, I bet we'd hit 20-22 executioners, leading to 8 unsaved wounds. The one hell blaster can finish off the dark riders. [/color]

[zifnab0]

I wasn't sure the Empire Forum was ready for the DECB (Double Eagle C**k Block).  Essentially it's STank option 1 and DG1 option 2 movement.  Horde has to charge front arc, but it's unable to close door on either unit and maximize means no charge.  But it's EVIL.  Of course it would be perfect right here. 

Sounds good.  Lets do that.

I was thinking that the Executioners couldn't pivot past the DR, so if we parked the steam tank in front of them he'd be unable to charge the Executioners into the steam tank.  That would likely put us in the exact same position next turn - unable to combo-charge his Executioners.

[Noght]

So Harshey, Zif and I all vote for Option 1.5, Tank option 1 and Demigryphs option 2.  ONLY if the Tank gets in front of the Horde.  Otherwise all Option 1.

BTW Zif, the Riders won't be there after this turn.

[Grazhnakk]

We need to keep the executioners out of the fight. I agree with the all-in on the sorceress, but the wounds those executioners can throw in on a fight can turn the tide away from us... we need something to send them away for a couple of turns. KN2 is the best candidate, IMO... stank 1 with one wound left  isn't much of a worry and we need stank 2. I'd rather not throw the reiksguard into it, but it's an option as well.

[George]

If the stank doesn't make it, the executioners have to charge the Demis, but the stank might be in the way, so they can't close the door. Locally, we call this the eagle cock block (nought you know what I'm talking about).

Doesn't the target unit have to close the door if the charging unit is unable to?
It would only be an impossible charge if neither unit could close the door.

[Noght]

If the stank doesn't make it, the executioners have to charge the Demis, but the stank might be in the way, so they can't close the door. Locally, we call this the eagle cock block (nought you know what I'm talking about).

Doesn't the target unit have to close the door if the charging unit is unable to?
It would only be an impossible charge if neither unit could close the door.

Nope.  If you have the front arc you have to charge and close the door.  If two units are both in a Hordes front arc (hence the double eagle reference) they prevent the Horde from closing the door.  It also works with a single unit if an opponent places his units too tight so the back end hits the neighbor.  It's evil and punishes Ogre Gutstars (or any Deathstar).  See important Note!!!

SUPER IMPORTANT!!!  The Tank and the Demigryphs have to have the flank exposed to the Horde with a majority of the Executioners in the 45* front arc of each unit!  So each unit has to expose flank with 6 Execs in front arc.