Topic: Steg's Armylists (2.5k & 3k list settling for a fixed army to be painted)

[StealthKnightSteg]

So after using previous list (before the last edit that corrected my blunder) I wanted to create a somewhat different list to use and to try out some of my other units to see how they would fare.

Lords:
218pt Arch Lector, Dawn Armour, Shield, Holy Relic, Shrieking Blade (3+ AS , 4+ WS) (with Halbs)
230pt Wizard Lord (Life), level 4, The Crimson Amulet

448pt total (max 25% = 500)

Heroes:
125pt CotE, BSB, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Dawnstone (with Halbs)
149pt CotE, Pegasus, FPA, Shield, Lance, Aldred's Casket of Sorcery
96pt Warrior Priest, Heavy Armour, Shield (with Swords)
130pt Battle Wizard (Shadow), level 2, Rod of Power

500pt total (max 25% = 500)

Core:

195pt Halberdiers x 35 (incl Full Command) (5x7)
 + 30pt Free Company x6 (3x2)
205pt Swordsmen x 30 (incl Full Command) (5x6)
 + 30pt Free Company x6 (3x2)
190pt Flagellants x 19 (7x2 +5 in 3rd rank)

590pt total (minimum 25% = 500)
+60

Special:
114pt Pistoliers x 5 (mus + outrider and repeater pistol)
100pt Great Cannon
75pt Mortar

289pt total (max 50% = 1000)

Rare:
110pt Helblaster Volley Gun

110pt total (max 25% = 500)

Army total: 448+500+590(+60)+289+110= 1997

I know the Flaggelant unit is a bit small (but I don't have more), anything you might want to adjust in this list?

[Cannonofdoom]

It looks like a pretty good list. Any changes I might suggest are purely a matter of personal preference, and wouldn't really affect how effective the list is overall.

The only thing I would really suggest is to remove the free company detachments, and use the points to give your WP a 4+ ward (Armour of Destiny).

[StealthKnightSteg]

It looks like a pretty good list. Any changes I might suggest are purely a matter of personal preference, and wouldn't really affect how effective the list is overall.

The only thing I would really suggest is to remove the free company detachments, and use the points to give your WP a 4+ ward (Armour of Destiny).

One problem with that.. I'm at 500 from 500 Hero point allowance 

But I do feel this list gives me a whole other perspective on the battle with alot of new options to explore (now I hope to get another game in before the eurobash)

Also not so sure about fielding the formations in horde. It totally depends on how your opponent is going to deploy. Last game I didn't see any skaven unit in horde formation. 30 in 5 files was the biggest unit, fielding a horde unit against that is a pure waste of frontage. Or even a  bigger risk at getting 2 units fully into your frontage.

[Cannonofdoom]

It looks like a pretty good list. Any changes I might suggest are purely a matter of personal preference, and wouldn't really affect how effective the list is overall.

The only thing I would really suggest is to remove the free company detachments, and use the points to give your WP a 4+ ward (Armour of Destiny).

One problem with that.. I'm at 500 from 500 Hero point allowance 

But I do feel this list gives me a whole other perspective on the battle with alot of new options to explore (now I hope to get another game in before the eurobash)

Also not so sure about fielding the formations in horde. It totally depends on how your opponent is going to deploy. Last game I didn't see any skaven unit in horde formation. 30 in 5 files was the biggest unit, fielding a horde unit against that is a pure waste of frontage. Or even a  bigger risk at getting 2 units fully into your frontage.

Easy fix. Remove the level 2 (do you really need him with a level 4 and 2 priests?) and once you pay for the ward for the WP, then you can spend the rest on more Flagellants! (use free company models, they work!)

[StealthKnightSteg]

Easy fix. Remove the level 2 (do you really need him with a level 4 and 2 priests?) and once you pay for the ward for the WP, then you can spend the rest on more Flagellants! (use free company models, they work!)

Not sure about needing the level 2 (he does carry the RoP) but was nice last game to have several options and I'm already down the options from the War Altar. If I'm losing him then my Wizard Lord needs to go to Fire as I need something to get rid of that HPA.. (knights charging with the firebanner was a mistake last time)

[Cannonofdoom]

Easy fix. Remove the level 2 (do you really need him with a level 4 and 2 priests?) and once you pay for the ward for the WP, then you can spend the rest on more Flagellants! (use free company models, they work!)

Not sure about needing the level 2 (he does carry the RoP) but was nice last game to have several options and I'm already down the options from the War Altar. If I'm losing him then my Wizard Lord needs to go to Fire as I need something to get rid of that HPA.. (knights charging with the firebanner was a mistake last time)

You still have 42 points that you can spend on Lords, so giving the RoP to your Wizlord should be no problem. Again, it's purely a personal preference thing. I think priests are too useful and expensive to not protect them.

[StealthKnightSteg]

Ok swapped some stuff around a bit in my last 2k list, I'll test this list atleast for some rounds tomorrow evening

(added shield to casketsus and WP. lowered Halbs 5, upped Flags with 3 swapped out rocket battery for volley gun to test it)

Keeping the wizards and priests amount as they are, as I want to see how I will hold up with PD usage.

[StealthKnightSteg]

So seeing as we have a tourny coming up at our local game store / club in june at 2400 points I thoughed let's take that opportunity to turn the list building around and let's see what we can manage building up with the Hammer Knight unit.
As been spoken about in:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38009.0

Lords:
240pt Templar Grand Master (Blazing Sun) (has FPA, Shield and Lance and barded warhorse), Sword of Sigismund (45), Dragon Helm (10), Dawnstone (25), The Other Tricksters Shard (15)
1+ AS re-rollable, 2+ ward save against flaming attacks
+1S and Always First Strike
re-roll succesfull ward saves by enemy
(with IC Knights)

I think he is now as optimally protected as can be and can dis out alot of pain with AFS on WS 6 with S5 on 4 attacks

255pt Wizard Lord (Life), level 4, The Crimson Amulet, Dispell scroll
(with handgunners)

Total: 495pt (of max 600)

Heroes:
139pt CotE (BSB) Barded Warhorse, Dawn Armour(35), Dragonbane Gem (5), Shrieking Blade (10)
2+ AS re-rollable, 2+ ward save against flaming attacks, causing Fear (possible survival increase of the unit)
(with IC Knights)

160pt Warrior Priest Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armor, Shield, Hammer of Judgement(25), Icon of Magnus(25)
2+ AS, immune to fear (also unit)
(with IC Knights)

Total: 299pt (of max 600)

Core:
220pt - 40 Halberdiers, FC (bus formation just to hold up the line)

108pt - 11 Handgunners, FC (wizard here)

136pt - 12 Handgunners, FC (HLR)

123pt - 5 Knights (mus) Lance / Shield (mob up of small units)

280pt - 28 Flaggelants

Total: 867 (max need 600)

Special:
222pt - 7 IC Knights (Blazing Sun), FC, Standard of Arcane Warding

230pt - 20 Great Swords, FC

100pt - Great Cannon

75pt - Mortar

Total: 627 (of max 1200)

Rare:
110pt - Helblaster Volley Gun

Army total: 495(lords), 299(heroes), 867(core), 627(special), 110(rare)  = 2398

So this is my first attempt to get a Empire like setup as the HE list might suggest.
Cannons / mortar to soften stuff up and a little also to get some attention

Now it's time to get all of you to pitch in on how we might improve on this concept!

EDIT: miscounted on some points so did a clean up and a few adjustments

[Cannonofdoom]

I don't have any problems with that list EXCEPT I would take out the Standard of Arcane Warding and 2 knights and swap in 10 more greatswords.

[StealthKnightSteg]

I don't have any problems with that list EXCEPT I would take out the Standard of Arcane Warding and 2 knights and swap in 10 more greatswords.

I can't remove 2 knights from the IC unit, that way I would loose to fast out on the "look out, sir!" roll for my TGM, BSB and WP
 
Arcane warding was added to make sure my normal IC knights weren't blasted to bits with magic for the above reason..
 
I think 20 GS will do fine next to the 28 flags to chop up the stuff that will get to my lines.
 
Only thing I hate now is that I'm lacking 1 big attraction point like a STank or WAltar.. but both are way to expensive for this list.. where is a normal chariot when you need one 

[Cannonofdoom]

I'm just saying what I would do. I don't mind being ignored. 

[StealthKnightSteg]

I'm just saying what I would do. I don't mind being ignored. 

I'm not ignoring you    I actually really appreciate your comments!!
But what you would do actually makes the idea behind the list more difficult, though I do wonder if you have other thoughts about that banner of Arcane Warding (I might think it's needed but maybe it's not)
 
Also what about the Lord and Hero kits? These ok?

[RobertShepherd]

I think you've made a lot of 'luxury purchases' that you might be able to slim back on to fit more stuff in elsewhere. For example;
- does the Templar Grand Master really need the helm? He has a 1+ save without it
- does the Warrior Priest really need those magic items? The Hammer is a nice magic weapon but somewhat wasted on a model with only two attacks, and the Icon seems useless since the Grand Master already makes the unit Immune to Psychology.
- do the Handgunner units really need full commands? Or the hochland long rifle? (note: I like hochland longrifles, but you're playing a points-intensive list with the cavalry, so it's a valid question)
- I'm with CannonofDoom in that I also don't think the Standard of Arcane Warding is particularly useful. This is because it only protects against magic missiles, and the majority of magic missiles are S4. Knights with a 1+ armour save don't have to worry about that. Its useless against the actually dangerous spells like Pit of Shades, Dwellers, or the various debuff spells that will keep your knights from winning combat.

If you cut all that you could save 150 pts.

[cornwall]

+ 1 for Cannon of dooms solid suggestion of ditching the standard and having more greatswords.

For any character i think a charmed shield is a bargain. Half the price of your dragon helm and you never know if that first hit that you get the ward save from is going to be from something big that could cause multiple wounds. If not then hey, it's only 5 pts! or perhaps a small switch around and adding a potion of strength to your TGM which would make him much more usefull if he came across something with a high toughness like Ogres or a big Armour save.  The sword of sigismund is a fantastic item, only slightly let down by the strength of the owner, and a potion of strength pretty much guarantees that you're a serious threat for at least a turn if something unpleasant turns up.

It's personal preference of course, but I'd 9 out of 10 times swap handgunners for crossbowmen. Unless you and your opponent deploy right on the starting blocks at the front of your deployment then you could lose a whole turns worth of shooting if you go first (my regular opponent likes to deploy 1/2 and inch back). The increased range of the crossbows means that this should never happen, also people don't seem to go quite so armour heavy in this edition preffering to add more bodies so the extra -1 save mod is often not needed. Also, as per high elves.. if your opponent has 24" shooting and you have 30" then you get the chance to soften him up first

Adding the shreiking blade is a good move.

[StealthKnightSteg]

I think you've made a lot of 'luxury purchases' that you might be able to slim back on to fit more stuff in elsewhere. For example;
- does the Templar Grand Master really need the helm? He has a 1+ save without it
- does the Warrior Priest really need those magic items? The Hammer is a nice magic weapon but somewhat wasted on a model with only two attacks, and the Icon seems useless since the Grand Master already makes the unit Immune to Psychology.
- do the Handgunner units really need full commands? Or the hochland long rifle? (note: I like hochland longrifles, but you're playing a points-intensive list with the cavalry, so it's a valid question)
- I'm with CannonofDoom in that I also don't think the Standard of Arcane Warding is particularly useful. This is because it only protects against magic missiles, and the majority of magic missiles are S4. Knights with a 1+ armour save don't have to worry about that. Its useless against the actually dangerous spells like Pit of Shades, Dwellers, or the various debuff spells that will keep your knights from winning combat.

If you cut all that you could save 150 pts.

- For the Armor save he doesn't need it no, merely added it of the 2+ WS against flaming, but this may be luxury indeed (would have given de dragonbane gem if it wasn't for the dawnstone already there)
- Yeah I wasn't feeling really secure due to the 2 attacks profile of the WP about the hammer (though its a hamemr and fits the WP fluf wise  ). Hmm good point about the icon!
- Took the FC on the HG's for the Fortitude (If I would loose the IC knight unit then I would loose 2(general)+1(BSB)+1(SB) = 4 points lost I do not want to have an auto loss on that scenario). HLR's was added to take potshots at enemy wizards as this list doesn't provide much in magic (defense), but these could be lost.
- Good point, will have to evaluate the number of magic damage spells that would actually be negated here and then if it's still worth it. Any other banners you would recommend?
 

+ 1 for Cannon of dooms solid suggestion of ditching the standard and having more greatswords.

For any character i think a charmed shield is a bargain. Half the price of your dragon helm and you never know if that first hit that you get the ward save from is going to be from something big that could cause multiple wounds. If not then hey, it's only 5 pts! or perhaps a small switch around and adding a potion of strength to your TGM which would make him much more usefull if he came across something with a high toughness like Ogres or a big Armour save.  The sword of sigismund is a fantastic item, only slightly let down by the strength of the owner, and a potion of strength pretty much guarantees that you're a serious threat for at least a turn if something unpleasant turns up.

It's personal preference of course, but I'd 9 out of 10 times swap handgunners for crossbowmen. Unless you and your opponent deploy right on the starting blocks at the front of your deployment then you could lose a whole turns worth of shooting if you go first (my regular opponent likes to deploy 1/2 and inch back). The increased range of the crossbows means that this should never happen, also people don't seem to go quite so armour heavy in this edition preffering to add more bodies so the extra -1 save mod is often not needed. Also, as per high elves.. if your opponent has 24" shooting and you have 30" then you get the chance to soften him up first

Adding the shreiking blade is a good move.

Will think about the charmed shield, the Potion is actually something to be considered! Thanx
 
I found out that the handgunners especially against skaven means no AS at all, range is a known issue.. But figured this: If they keep out of range from my handgunners then more shooting for my cannons / mortar, also the marksmen option for the HLR is only with HG's hence my choice.
These 2 units will be swapped out for Xbows in test games to see what will be better of use though.
 
And thanks! Fear doesn't seem that good anymore in 8th like it used to be, but I think it can still be beneficial if you get that lower WS against you. and at only 10 points I thoughed it to be worth it!
 
I'll see what I can do this evening / tomorrow evening about adjusting the list with the comments given here

[Cannonofdoom]

I can't remove 2 knights from the IC unit, that way I would loose to fast out on the "look out, sir!" roll for my TGM, BSB and WP
Arcane warding was added to make sure my normal IC knights weren't blasted to bits with magic for the above reason..

You can remove them from the other knight unit. Remove the Handgunner Marksmen (They're not worth their points at ALL). If you absolutely do not want to remove any knights at all from your list, I would still urge you to remove the banner, at least, and use those points to buy 4 more greatswords. Here's why: Magic Res is crap now. It only works against Direct Damage Spells, and then a bunch of those ignore all saves. The only reason I can think of that would make me spend 40 points on that banner is if I were playing against someone I KNEW for SURE was using lore of metal. Otherwise, it is not worth it. If you absolutely must have Magic Res, spend 5 more points and get Magic Res (3) on a character. Plus, Greatswords are your ultimate anvil unit. They are more survivable than your flagellants, and can actually win a lot of combats after the first round.

With the points from removing the Handgunner Marksmen, you can buy 2 more handgunners (two units of 12) and a couple more Flaggies, or GS.

OR you could round out your 7 IC knights to 8 or 10, to help you even more. Another idea is to drop your IC Knights Preceptor. It's a lot to pay for +1 attack and MAYBE accepting a challenge. When I am squeezing points, unit champions are often one of the first things to go. Plus, with him gone you would have one more R&F guy for your LOS! rolls.

Also what about the Lord and Hero kits? These ok?

I don't have any problems with them, really. There's a few wonky things, but it's not bad.

I will tell you how I would kit them if I were going to field them all in one unit of knights, which seems to be your plan.

The TGM makes your knights ItP, so having Icon of Magnus is a waste of points. I would give your WP the VHS, and Potion of Strength or Sword of Might.

Somewhat the same thing with your BSB kit. Causing fear is just not that effective with BSB's allowing re-rolls. I would rather give him the Charmed Shield and Holy Relic or Talisman of Preservation (1+ AS, ignore first hit, 4+ ward)

For the Wizard Lord I would drop everything you have given him in favor of the Rod of Power. So much better, and allows you greater flexibility and even magical dominance in either phase.

I don't have an issue with your TGM, except to say that you better not have him Base to Base with any of your other characters, because the OTS is ALL models in base to base, not just enemy models. I would probably drop it and the Dragonhelm in favor of Potion of Strength or Speed. Personally, and again, it's preference, and not a BETTER idea than yours, I would give him a 4+ ward to go along with his 1+ AS, and fit him with a nice sword (like the Sword of Sigismund) OR give him the Laurels of Victory, Sword of +1 to hit, and Potion of Strength, to try and break that unit on the turn you charge. Sword of Sigismund and the Laurels are also an excellent combination, and the TGM is the character to use it on.

Incidentally, I always put banners on my shooting units, simply for the reason you listed, and also to give them a little bit better chance to fend off those skirmishing gun hunters like Gutter Runners or Hawk Riders or scouts.

[StealthKnightSteg]

I can't remove 2 knights from the IC unit, that way I would loose to fast out on the "look out, sir!" roll for my TGM, BSB and WP
Arcane warding was added to make sure my normal IC knights weren't blasted to bits with magic for the above reason..

You can remove them from the other knight unit. Remove the Handgunner Marksmen (They're not worth their points at ALL). If you absolutely do not want to remove any knights at all from your list, I would still urge you to remove the banner, at least, and use those points to buy 4 more greatswords. Here's why: Magic Res is crap now. It only works against Direct Damage Spells, and then a bunch of those ignore all saves. The only reason I can think of that would make me spend 40 points on that banner is if I were playing against someone I KNEW for SURE was using lore of metal. Otherwise, it is not worth it. If you absolutely must have Magic Res, spend 5 more points and get Magic Res (3) on a character. Plus, Greatswords are your ultimate anvil unit. They are more survivable than your flagellants, and can actually win a lot of combats after the first round.

With the points from removing the Handgunner Marksmen, you can buy 2 more handgunners (two units of 12) and a couple more Flaggies, or GS.

OR you could round out your 7 IC knights to 8 or 10, to help you even more. Another idea is to drop your IC Knights Preceptor. It's a lot to pay for +1 attack and MAYBE accepting a challenge. When I am squeezing points, unit champions are often one of the first things to go. Plus, with him gone you would have one more R&F guy for your LOS! rolls.

Remove them from my other knight unit? Isn't there still a minimum unit amount (5 in this case)? So that would mean to remove the secondary knights all together from the list, not so sure if that would be smart to loose the mobility of that mob up unit.
Handgunner Marksmen (and thus HLR) will defo get some attention to a possible boot! Aswell as that Arcane Warding Banner. Maybe an idea of another banner?
Will definatly consider any points I clear to up the Great Swords unit.
Was considering a few more knights in the IC unit aswell, but they are expensive. As for the Preceptor he is there for another reason see below.
 

Also what about the Lord and Hero kits? These ok?

I don't have any problems with them, really. There's a few wonky things, but it's not bad.

I will tell you how I would kit them if I were going to field them all in one unit of knights, which seems to be your plan.

The TGM makes your knights ItP, so having Icon of Magnus is a waste of points. I would give your WP the VHS, and Potion of Strength or Sword of Might.

Somewhat the same thing with your BSB kit. Causing fear is just not that effective with BSB's allowing re-rolls. I would rather give him the Charmed Shield and Holy Relic or Talisman of Preservation (1+ AS, ignore first hit, 4+ ward)

For the Wizard Lord I would drop everything you have given him in favor of the Rod of Power. So much better, and allows you greater flexibility and even magical dominance in either phase.

I don't have an issue with your TGM, except to say that you better not have him Base to Base with any of your other characters, because the OTS is ALL models in base to base, not just enemy models. I would probably drop it and the Dragonhelm in favor of Potion of Strength or Speed. Personally, and again, it's preference, and not a BETTER idea than yours, I would give him a 4+ ward to go along with his 1+ AS, and fit him with a nice sword (like the Sword of Sigismund) OR give him the Laurels of Victory, Sword of +1 to hit, and Potion of Strength, to try and break that unit on the turn you charge. Sword of Sigismund and the Laurels are also an excellent combination, and the TGM is the character to use it on.

Incidentally, I always put banners on my shooting units, simply for the reason you listed, and also to give them a little bit better chance to fend off those skirmishing gun hunters like Gutter Runners or Hawk Riders or scouts.

Icon was out of the door already in my mind
Interesting options for the WP will certainly look into that! As for the BSB will also look into that though I do think fear might be usefull even if re-rolls can be made if we are in range of his BSB, which in the first fights won't be as I will try to flank his battle line and not roll through the center first (where normally his bsb will be)
 
RoP is indeed something to consider especially with only 1 wiz and 1 wp I might have dice spare (with high winds of magic) to use and store
 
Coming back to the Preceptor.. the OTS was here the decisions to take him.
Front line setup: SB - TGM - Preceptor - WP - BSB (if with 12 IC knights then - MUS) second line MUS and 4 R&F (or with 12 IC 6 R&F)
That way my other chars are out of harms way for the OTS.
 
Both Dragonbane Gem and DragonHelm will be reconsidered and the laurels will be added I think aswell to make sure to win combats.
 
There is a lot to ponder on this list still
But really happy on all the comments given here! (maybe I'll test it out on the Eurobash)

[StealthKnightSteg]

So here is my adjusted list
Banner of Arcane Warding is 30 points btw not 40 (just if you were wondering about the changes)

reference:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38009.0

Lords:
230pt   Templar Grand Master (Blazing Sun) (has FPA, Shield and Lance and   barded warhorse), Sword of Sigismund (45), Dawnstone   (25), The Other Tricksters Shard (15)
1+ AS re-rollable
+1S and Always First Strike
re-roll succesfull ward saves by models in base contact
(with IC Knights)

I think he is now as optimally protected as can be and can dis out alot of pain with AFS on WS 6 with S5 on 4 attacks

260pt Wizard Lord (Life), level 4, The Crimson Amulet(20), Rod of Power(30)
(with handgunners)

Total: 490pt (of max 600)

Heroes:
139pt CotE (BSB) Barded Warhorse, Dawn Armour(35), Sword of Battle (15 AB value)
2+ AS re-rollable, +1 attack
(with IC Knights)

150pt Warrior Priest Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armor, Shield, Sword of Might(15 AB value), Van Horstmann's Speculum (30), Ironcurse Icon (5), Luckstone (5) (Ironcurse and VHS are both Enchanted items cannot carry both)
2+ AS, re-roll single failed armor save
(with IC Knights)

90pt Engineer, Pigeon bombs

Total: 379pt (of max 600)

Core:
220pt - 40 Halberdiers, FC (bus formation just to hold up the line)

135pt - 15 Handgunners, SB, MUS (wizard here)

250pt - 25 Flaggelants (7x3+some)

Total: 605 (max need 600)

Special:
247pt - 7 IC Knights (Blazing Sun), FC, War Banner (25 AB value)

280pt - 25 Great Swords, FC

114pt - 5 Pistoliers, mus, outrider with repeater pistol)

100pt - Great Cannon

75pt - Mortar

Total: 816 (of max 1200)

Rare:
110pt - Helblaster Volley Gun

Army total: 490(lords), 379(heroes), 605(core), 816(special), 110(rare)  = 2400

Thoughts:
- TGM fit: Sword of Sigismund (Magic Weapon), Dawnstone (Talisman), OTS (Enchanted Item). These are now there, giving a Ward Save means removing the Dawnstone as talisman missing the 1+ AS reroll (other option is killing his FPA for an expensive armor) I think I can try to rely on the Ward Prayer. Laurels with 55 is really expensive but will try them out if I feel combat with this setup won't turn in my favor.
Might swap out the OTS for a potion of Strength though, just going to field test the OTS first.
- Added RoP to Wizard Lord
- BSB fit: with the Dawnstone on the TGM I don't see another option then to give him the Dawn Armor for the reroll AS (I think the AS re-roll will save more then the Ward Save) so that fills up the slot on Magic Armor. Leaves 15 points which is too little to add a decent Ward Save item (6+ is not worth it in my opinion) But will try the FPA + Charmed Shield + Holy Relic or Talisman of Preservation combo if my findings are leaning more towards this use.
- WP fit: there is room for the 6+ WS for the whole unit against warmachines here, maybe usefull? Edit: had 5 left over points so I just tugged it in
- Added an Engineer as I found that especially the Hellblaster and with it also the cannon and mortar benefits greatly from him. Also making the warmachine park a prime target and thus my Knight unit will be less a target.
- To save some more points I combined both handgunner units and shaved some models here aswell to add more Great Swords
- To counter not using the laurels I added the War Banner for another 1 combat result. Lost the Banner of Arcane Warding here.

IC Knights unit summary:
4 attacks ASF S5 (TGM)
4 attacks I5 S4 (BSB)
2 attacks I4 S5 (WP)
8 attacks I3 S6 (7 Knights including Preceptor) hatred on charge
5 attacks I3 S3 (5 Warhorses)

I'm actually a bit worried about the I3 of the Knights..
So anymore thoughts?

Edit: wrong calculation on the Knights so moved a bit around to make it fit again, biggest change 5 nilla knights swapped for Pistoliers

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Looks like you are closing in on a solid list!

The only thought I have based upon the other HE thread is that alot of your striking punch is in one basket-  the IC Knights.  If I was fighting your list, they would be high on my targeting priority.

I run the 10 IC and 5 'nilla knights as well, but I think that the addition of impact hits (from either a WAlter or STank) would really add power at your point of attack.  I get those points by running with cheap Halberds just to get some ranks and I avoid the more expensive troops.  We can never match the HE troops he uses in his list so we have to get more creative in our search for mass casualties.

Let us know how the list works out for you!  I would be interested in your lessons learned. 

[MrAbyssal]

We can never match the HE troops he uses in his list so we have to get more creative in our search for mass casualties.

With any luck we should be able to use our artillery to thin the ranks enough that we can achieve the same thing when we do make combat though.

Let us know how the list works out for you!  I would be interested in your lessons learned.

Also very interested to hear how it all goes for you.

[StealthKnightSteg]

Well the 2400 (+100 bare lvl 2 mage) didn't do so well against WoC (see my battle report thread).. I have some ideas that I want to adjust, but also some other lists of mine need redoing..

[MrAbyssal]

I still reckon the list is close. Just a bit of tweaking and force balancing and it'll be fine. I think you have a few too many eggs in the IC basket. I'd probably move the BSB to support the Infantry and add the extra IC Knight to keep the unit size at 10.

I'd probably do some item tweaking here and there. With the WP in with the IC you could get away with taking Ogre Blade/Sword of Power and using Hammer of Sigmar to get re-roll to hit and wound for a start.

I'm also worried that the amulet on the wizard and the pidgeon bombs may be a waste. The wizard would be better off with a dispel scroll in case of emergency and with those three war machines (same as what I run at 2000pts) the engineer probably won't get much chance to unleash the birds. Remember that the wizard can heal himself with the Lore Attribute.

Your elite unit formations could probably be tweaked a bit as well to find the best balance of depth and attacking power. Your flagellants at least look a bit shallow. I'd probably look at 6x4 and change instead of the 7x3 and change.

[Cannonofdoom]

Well the 2400 (+100 bare lvl 2 mage) didn't do so well against WoC (see my battle report thread).. I have some ideas that I want to adjust, but also some other lists of mine need redoing..

Oops. I missed your update. I'll look at it and get back to you.

[StealthKnightSteg]

So with my insights from the Eurobash a new 2000 List

Lords:
223pt Arch Lector
    Dawn Armour, Shield, Hammer of Anti-Heroes, VHS
235pt Wizard Lord
    Level 4, Lore of Fire, Dispell Scroll

458 / 500

Heroes:
125pt CotE
    Battle Standard Bearer, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Dawnstone
139pt Warrior Priest
   Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield, Hammer of Fate
95pt Battle Wizard
    Level 1, Lore of Beasts, Rod of Power
65pt Engineer

424 / 500

Core
220pt 40 Halberdiers
    Full Command
205pt 30 Swordsmen
    Full Command
80pt 10 Crossbowmen

505 / 500

Detachments
30pt 6 Free Company (with Halberdiers)
30pt 6 Free Company (with Swordsmen)
48pt 6 Handgunners (with Halberdiers)

108 / XXX

Special
114pt 5 Pistoliers
   Musician, Outrider with Repeater Pistol
100pt Great Cannon
100pt Great Cannon
75pt Mortar

389 / 1000

Rare
115pt Helstorm Rocket Battery

115 / 500

Total: 1999

[StealthKnightSteg]

Revised 2500 List
(Revised 2400 List, will drop the Luckstone on the WP and the Battle Wizard to do this)
 
Lords:
155pt Arch Lector
   General, AoMI (with halbs)
230pt TGM
   FPA, Shield, Lance, Sword of Sigismund, Dawnstone, tOTS (with (IC?) Knights)
210pt Wiz Lord
   (Life), lvl 4 (with Xbow)
 
595pt total (max 600)
 
Heroes:
125pt CotE
   BSB, Dawn armour, Sword of Battle (with halbs)
150pt WP
   BWarhorse, HA, Shield, Sword of Might, VHS, Luckstone (With (IC?) Knights)
95pt Battle Wizard
   (Beasts) lvl 1, RoP (with Xbow)
65pt Engineer
 
435pt total (max 600)
 
Core:
170pt 30 Halbs, FC
205pt 30 Swords, FC
224pt 8 Knights GW, FC
82pt 9 Xbow, SB
82pt 9 Xbow, SB
 
763pt total (min 600)
 
Detachments:
30pt 6 Free Company (with Halberdiers)
30pt 6 Free Company (with Swordsmen)
 
60pt total (xxx)
 
Special:
248pt 8 IC Knights GW, FC
114pt 5 Pistoliers, Mus, Outrider w. Repeater Pistol
100pt Great Cannon
100pt Great Cannon
75pt Mortar
 
637pt total (max 1200)
 
2490pt Army total
 
Thoughts:
- I got 10 points left to use and 5 spare points in Lords.. I feel the AL needs something, but that would mean loosing something on the TGM (maybe the OTS).
- removed the specialist infantry (flags and GS) to add in another Knight unit to offer a deployment bonus. I can now either drop the TGM + WP in the normal Knights or in the IC knights depending on where they might be more usefull.
- Added an AL in to provide the LD Bubble with my main line instead of seeing it gone on the flank or loosing it if the knight unit bites it.. Also gives me more advantage in the Dispel magic fase.
- BSB on foot now also to be with the main line.
- Added in 2 CC detachments. they will opperate on the inside of my line: Halbs-detach-detach-Swords. While 1 or both Knight units will operate on the outer flank(s) of those units to flank from the other side.
- Pistoliers will still harrass as much as possible deep within enemy lines.
 
So due to me being at work I can't really work out shifting magic items now, so will do that at home.. But I am interested in how you guys might perseve this new list.