Topic: Getting a Handle on AoS - Free People's Advice Sought

[Archon]

Hi All,

Long time no post (very long time).  I rather gave up on fantasy around the end times and (as with many older-timers) completely dropped it once AoS came out - especially when it came out without a matched play option in the first several months.  Well, I have a new gaming group and things are swinging around to AoS so I thought I'd ask for some help and see if I can get a bead on AoS so far.

Some General Thoughts - Please Correct or Reinforce as Appropriate:

It seems to be that nothing is particularly resilient as all weapons have a fixed to wound roll.  Combined with multiple damage, generally lighter armor across the board and no invulnerable-type saves that I've seen so far, the game looks fast-paced and bloody.  To me, this means multiple attacks seems to be king (outside of mortal wounds and battleshock at least).

It also means larger units if you want anything to stay around for a while.

I've also noticed that things have become rather short-ranged, so a gun line might have one turn of full-barrelled firing before the fun starts, absent clever deployment, etc.

This all has led me to the conclusion that I'd rather have more mans than allied cannons (also, come on - how are knights now allies?), and that horde armies can be fiercely powerful and that effective elite armies need multiple-shot units to dish out the hurt before getting overwhelmed (endrinriggers come to mind) -- especially if the horde can negate battleshock.

All that said, here's my first attempt at an AoS force.  Probably have about a month to repair the old models and paint what was left unpainted.  Some choices based on available models (I used to run a Gryphon-themed Averland force), others on tactical choices.

Freeguild General on Griffon - Armor of Meteoric Iron, Hammer
General on Foot - Warlord, Inspiration (no battleshock w/in 12"), Hammer
Allied Battlemage (Amber)
Allied Luminark of Hysh

20 Swordsmen, Shield
20 Greatswords
30 Handgunners

6 Demigryph Knights, Shield, No lance

10 Outriders

Idea is generally a refused flank, with the Knights, Gryphon General and Outriders flanking, possibly joined by the luminark and possibly supported by the Amber mage...  Really roughly thrown together...

[StealthKnightSteg]

Everything tends to die faster indeed, bar the ethereal ruled undead or the fnp nurgles.

Shooting is still powerfull though even if they notched it down a bit as shooting is still allowed when being in combat but with restrictions now. Problem with most shooty units is still their survivability.

Your list looks pretty good! Not sure about the Luminark or the Amber wizard, need to look at them again, but some magic power is always welcome. Hurricanum is more liked in the games I've seen.

The trick with this list will be to time the shoot at charging unit or counter charge options and to get those greatswords buffed up to a 2+/2+ to hit / to wound then they just about murder anything they touch.

[Archon]

Thank you! I'd prefer the Hurricanum too, but not sure what 140 pts I could drop for it. Maybe 10 handgunners to swap +1 bonuses.

Also, is there a way to get the greatswords to a 2+ hit roll without the hurricanum?

I was also thinking of dropping the behemoth completely in exchange for 1 or 2 other battlemages (and another 120pts of state troops if only 1 mage).

I was concerned about the dispelling though and liked the buffs available to the luminark.  Stupid 400pt ally limit...

[Gankom]

I agree fully with SKS. In my few games I've had some real luck with my shooting, especially if you can set up some tricksy moves or perhaps use another unit to lure the army off to get a good second round of shooting.

I myself tend to prefer multiple small units over one big one, so I'd go with multiple weaker battle mages instead of the big hurricanum.

[Archon]

Thanks again.  Would you be willing to elaborate on the MSU v. large unit approach?  I'm normally an MSU fan, especially given battleshock issues, but with the buffs for larger units (and trying to stay above 20), I'm (clearly) leaning towards larger units.

That being said, I relooked at the luminark and realized that its survivability, especially early game, compared to a luminark is, well... meh.  I also found out that excelsior warpriests get gryphhounds and I'm a sucker for a theme (I lost the jade gryphon, but get a new actual half-griffon? I'll take it).

So now I'm thinking:

Freeguild General on Griffon - Armor of Meteoric Iron, Hammer - 260
General on Foot - Warlord, Inspiration (no battleshock w/in 12"), Hammer - 100
Allied Battlemage (Amber) - 120
Allied Battlemage (Amber) - 120
Allied Excelsion Warpriest - 80

40 Swordsmen, Shield - 280
20 Greatswords - 280
30 Handgunners - 300

6 Demigryph Knights, Shield, No lance - 280

5 Pistoliers/Outriders - 130 (I was advised that objective taking may be more helpful than an extra 5 guys who move up the board and are effective shooting from turn 2 on... thoughts?) 

1 Purchased CP (Is this worth it?) - 50
 - Also on the CP, can you use that "unit can't move or charge but gets +1/+1" 2x, but different units, and if the units are already in combat?  Wondering if I can get the demigryphs and gryphon gen stuck in and buff for a second round.  Or is that just a pipe dream?

Total: 1990

Also, with 9-10 units, is it safe to assume I finish deploying last at 2k points?

[GamesPoet]

Thanks again.  Would you be willing to elaborate on the MSU v. large unit approach?  I'm normally an MSU fan, especially given battleshock issues, but with the buffs for larger units (and trying to stay above 20), I'm (clearly) leaning towards larger units.

I'm curious too.

That being said, I relooked at the luminark and realized that its survivability, especially early game, compared to a luminark is, well... meh.  I also found out that excelsior warpriests get gryphhounds and I'm a sucker for a theme (I lost the jade gryphon, but get a new actual half-griffon? I'll take it).

"... luminark ... compared to a luminark", do you mean luminark compared to a huriccanum

[Archon]

Never type and walk the dog I guess... Luminark compared to two wizards. +1 Wo, +2 save, but lose the -1 to hit and MUCH harder to hide.

I do like chariots though.

[GamesPoet]

So you're saying having 2 wizards is a little are better than the Luminark?

[Archon]

That's my assessment at the moment, though I'm more than happy to have someone disabuse me of the notion.

[Gankom]

Sorry I'm late getting back. Skimmed through the thread yesterday and didn't notice the question.

Thanks again.  Would you be willing to elaborate on the MSU v. large unit approach?  I'm normally an MSU fan, especially given battleshock issues, but with the buffs for larger units (and trying to stay above 20), I'm (clearly) leaning towards larger units.

I should be honest and say I'm a pretty chill casual player who just takes what he likes. With MSU you certainly don't have the staying power to fight any of the large units and battleshock can be an issue. I tend to focus on running around to try and snag multiple objectives early, assassinate what heroes I can, and just generally cause havoc. I absolutely can get steam rolled if my opponent rolls a large unit up for a slug math. So it really comes down to personal play style.

[Oxycutor]

Battleshock is a risk with the relatively low bravery of free peoples.  Although you get +1 bravery for every 10 models in the unit at the point you take the battleshock test.