Topic: BFG ships

[Crimsonsphinx]

I did it because it made the ships stand out.  Historically, ships were never painted on the bottom!  The purple is very dark anyway, so it blends in nicely with the black bottom.

Orks are a poor fleet, I have never managed more than a draw with them.  They are too slow, with poor weapons and no turning ability. Nice models though.

My scratch built hulk has never seen battle.

What models did you use for your chaos fleet?  Those you posted above?

[Aldaris]

Yes, I have built an Acheron, two Devastations and two Carnages for my initial 1000 pts fleet. My Imperial opponent is using, after some deliberation, a Dominator, a Gothic and a Tyrant for Cruisers with two Lance Dauntlesses and a squadron of 3 Swords in support.

I guess we'll be playing a basic Cruiser clash and, if time permits, another engagement with the fleets outlined above, just to get to know the rules a bit better.

[Crimsonsphinx]

You both have odd numbers of cruisers?  How did you manage that with 2 in a box plastics?

Your cruisers are well balanced, you cant really pick a bad cruiser for chaos, although I would avoid Styx as they are IMO too expensive in points, although they do use lots of launch bay parts meaning its easier to make other ship types.

Imperial as you are aware are not really my thing.  I have that single Mars I built after I used the other ship for making the hulk.
Dauntlesses are nasty little ships, with good manuverability and three lances each on the prow.

Beware the novacannon on the Dominator.  It can smash a ship to crippled in one shot, so close with it fast and try to reduce to scrap metal.  You have an ordinance advantage with two carriers, so you can use a few fighters to intercept torpedoes, then a giant bomber wing [4-6 bombers]  to smash his dominator.  Thats what I would do!

[Aldaris]

It's just our respective 1000 points lists. He has one Mars in reserve, and I have 5 yet unbuilt.
Two of those will be Slaughters, the rest I am not yet sure about.

And thanks for the tactical tips!
Regarding the giant bomber wing: is it really a good idea to have so many without fighter support? Can't a single fighter remove the whole wave then? Or would he only kill one squadron?

[Dihenydd]

www.bartertown.org  or com I can't remember

Anyways there's always BFG up for sale/trade there.  Sometimes some good deals.

I kinda gave up on BFG because of the wysiwyg idea.  I'm now pretty much playing A Call to Arms (Babylon 5) sometimes or more likely Full Thrust.  FT is great because its a generic system.  Use any ships you want.  You can re-create the BFG universe fairly well too, although the ships tend to be gigantic in comparison points-wise.  However, you can settle the score who wins "BFG Imperials vs Star Trek Klingons" or "Star Wars Star Destroyer vs BSG rag tag fugitive fleet".

I recently played against a BFG Chaos fleet (2000 pts BFG = about 4000 pts FT) with my Babylon 5 Narn.  The Chaos ordinance was brutal but my superior beam weaponry won out in the end (gotta love Bin-Tak)

Plus, and I can't stress this enough, Full Thrust rule system is FREE.

[wissenlander]

You tempt me with your Babylon 5 talk, Dihenydd!

[Crimsonsphinx]

Thats why I said you need 4-6 bombers, you will need a couple of fighter units to try to keep his limited fighters occupied.

You should ideally aim to have at least one torpedo capable ship if you go up to 1500 points,  Either the repulsive, or some torpedo escorts, as this splits up what fighters can go for.

How was the game by the way?

If you have 5 more chasis, I would suggest 2 slaughters, a hades and 2 of whatever takes your fancy!

[Aldaris]

Ah yes, the game. We didn't have a proper 48"x72" table, so we just used the one in the living room that's quite a bit smaller.
I set up in a line abreast (ships inclined about 45° to the left so I could go into a column easily to begin using my broadsides) with the Acheron on my left flank, the two Carnages in the middle and the Devastations on the right. Nothing was squadroned, and I rolled decent leadership all round.
He set up with his three Cruisers in the middle in a very tight formation, flanked left and right (and a bit forward) by the Dauntlesses and leading the formation with the three swords in line abreast. And he set up in the corner of his deployment zone my ships were pointing towards. Of course. That was my first mistake: corrceting for that 45° inclination woiuld take time.

I had the first turn and moved forward some, straightening out my heading so I could begin to turn away from him. Nothing was in range. I launched 4 single fighter squadrons and a wave of 2 Fighter and 2 Bomber squadrons, forming a loose screen ahead of my ships to intercept incoming torpedoes and prepare a strike.

He moved forward and shot his novacannon at one of my carnages, promptly getting a direct hit and 4 damage. So shields stripped and 2 HP lost. Ouch! Then he fired two swarms of torps at my Acheron (that was just out of range), followed by a wave of 2x2 bombers. I intercepted the torps and one wave of bombers, the other wave was about 8 cm ahead of my Acheron... damn. I'd run into that one. Nice play by my opponent.

My turn. Special Orders! "Reload" for the Dev that had launched fighters. Works. I move forward, the Acheron turning to pass his fleet on the left, the others prepare to pass him on the right. Acheron runs into the bombers. Turrets take out one, and he rolls a one for the other ones attacks, which is negated by my turrets. Whew.

Shooting. I wanted to go for his Dictator with my first Carnage, but didn't make the leadership roll.
Oh, RULES QUESTION: What happens if you do not manage the leadership roll to ignore the closest target? Do you then get to fire at the closest target or don't you get to shoot at all? We played that you can still fire at the closest.
So I opened fire on the right Dauntless instead, stripping the shields and inflicting some damage. The other Carnage did target the Dictator, and managed a grand total of one hit. Devastations blew their leadership to ignore the Dauntless and targetted it with lances and batteries, hulking it. Yay! First blood.

[Crimsonsphinx]

If you fail the leadership, as far as my memory serves, and certainly how we play, you have to shoot the closest target.  That means you have nothing to lose by actually targetting ships further away.

This is one advantage for squadrens btw.  If you put two ships [ideally the same type, or at least very similar for maximum efficency eg hades and murders] then you can alternate who takes the punishment, as the squadren is 1 target for shooting purposes and all hits hit the closest target.  So by varying which ship is nearest, you can control the spread of damage to your own ships.

Edit:  Regarding the bomber wing.  If you attach some fighters to the bomber wing, then they will die defending the bombers.  So if you have say 4 bombers and 4 fighters in one wave, they will need 5 fighters to kill them all, something a lone carrier cannot do!

[Aldaris]

If you fail the leadership, as far as my memory serves, and certainly how we play, you have to shoot the closest target.  That means you have nothing to lose by actually targetting ships further away.

Nice, so we got that right.

Edit:  Regarding the bomber wing.  If you attach some fighters to the bomber wing, then they will die defending the bombers.  So if you have say 4 bombers and 4 fighters in one wave, they will need 5 fighters to kill them all, something a lone carrier cannot do!

So a single fighter can indeed take out a whole wave of bombers if those are unescorted? I thought each fighter squad just takes out one bomber...

Anyway, back to the game. Ordnance, I launch 2 new wings of two bombers, and move my wave of 2F2B already in play into contact with the left Dauntless (I couldn't fit through the gaps to reach the Dictator).
The turrets opposing my deadly cloud of strikecraft shoot down nothing. Fighters then supress the turrets. 8 attacks for the bombers rolled... resulting in one hit. Duh.
His turn. He locks on with a lot, reloads ordnance and gets down ot business. Some movement into the middle between my two divisions, and then it's shooty time. He reduces the Acheron to 5 hits, knocking out its shield generators with a critical. OuchOuchOUCH! The already Novacannon-damaged Carnage gets another 7 hits, reducing it to a single HP and knocking out the Starboard batteries. He launches 4 fighters to intercept my bombers.
My turn. I am basically past bis line, I could "come to a new heading" to come up behind him with both divisions. I could. I could also kick him in the nads right now and defend that way. I like that thought better. I decide to reload my two Devastations, lock on with the undamaged Carnage and the Acheron (who decides to ignore its missing shields and stay in the thick of it) and disengage with the crippled Carnage (it gets away clean). 
Shooty-shooty. I totally brutalize the Dictator, turning it into a blazing wreck (whoohoo!). "Lock on" is totally awesome. 2 squadrons of 4 bombers each launch, the Imperial fleet is now completely without fighter cover after all.
His turn. The blazing wreck of the Dictator drifts forward, ending its movement right next to his Swords. He rolls the catastrophic damage table again. Plasma drive explosion. 2 of the 3 Swords wink out in the massive fireball.
He doesn't like those new odds at all and disengages his remaining fleet. Chaos is victorious!

We both made mistakes, we both learned a lot. I find my current fleet effective, but a bit bland. Needs more stuff. Escorts. Battleships. Grand Cruisers!

Some more rules questions though. Regarding bases and measuring. I get that movement and shooting are measured from the stem of the flying base, not the edge of the base itself, right? So, in what instances is the base of any concern?
Novacannon. Does it hit the base or the stem of the base?
Fighters. From where do they launch? Stem of the base or edge? Where do they strike enemy ships? Stem or edge of the base?
Same question for torps.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Ill try to clarify ordinance for you Aldaris, although its perfectly possible I am wrong as this is from memory and I am at work with no reference material at hand.

Generally speaking, a single fighter can only take out 1 bomber, or 1 torpedo.  However if they are in a group, then the fighter can kill a whole bunch of torpedoes [usually 6 from imperial crusiers for example] or all the bombers.  So you have a balancing act between making bombers viable at taking out capital ships against surviving enemy fighters.

Lock on is good, but I find it is usually more difficult to do with chaos, when you are trying to dodgy lots of torpedoes on the board.  In smaller games you tend to be able to lock on more, than when your dodging 6 or more strips of torpedoes heading towards your fleet!

For bases , you measure from the stick.  The base size is relevant for being hit by novacannons, going through blast markers, and for boarding.  So its not totally irrelevant!

Regarding launching ordinance.  In my group, torpedoes have to be placed in the front arc of a ship.  They can only be fired in this arc, but do not have to go straight forwards.  This can lead to some cunning traps, so watch out.  For fighters/bombers, we deploy them in the arc where the ship has some bays.  Usually this will be port and starboard,  However if we field them in a big wing, we find it acceptable to place them all to one side, representing them gathering together after launch.

Hope that helps?

[Aldaris]

Quite, thank you.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Just had a thought.

I woudlnt rule the Styx out without trying it.  Some people do rate them, and they look really good.  So you might want to consider building one.

[MrDWhitey]

This thread is making me want to repaint my Chaos Fleet.

They're painted in the standard "Red" That chaos fleets had when they first came out. Doesn't really suit my Deathguard.

[Aldaris]

I did plan to, I find the Styx to be quite interesting. It could make a pretty brutal supplement to the two Devastations - that would give me 14 launchbays. It could also replace them... But I find the "in addition" part to be more interesting.
Lets see, to go to 2000 I could spend... 330 points for two Slaughters, 275 for the Styx. Comes to 605 points. Add a Desolator. 900 points. Crap... that wouldn't leave me room for escorts. So maybe ditch the Acheron. -190 points. Add two squadrons of infidels instead, for 120 each.

That would come to something like:
2 Devastations, 1 Styx.
Carrier group that stands off, launches stuff and adds some 60 cm lances.

2 Carnages. Go to medium range and pound stuff with batteries.

2 Slaughters, 1 Desolator. Those go straight for the throat.
2 Squadrons of Infidels: cover the assault section, support with torps.
Haven't calculated it exactly, but should leave room for some bling at 200o points. Thoughts?

EDIT: Oh, and MrDwhitey: do it! We might as well go all the way offtopic at the Bash!
 

[MrDWhitey]

So shall I just bring 40k and BFG to the bash then? Limited carrying space afterall. 

[Aldaris]

Ahh, no, that wouldn't be good. But BFG, come on! Those fleets fit in a lunch box!

[Crimsonsphinx]

I have 2 styx, 2 devestation, 2 murder, 2 carnage, 2 slaughter, 1 hades, 1 acheron, 1 executor, 1 repulsive and 1 despoiler battleship.  Six of each escort rounds out my chaos fleet, although I rarely use any of them.

At 1500 points I normally field something like this. 
Executor, Hades, 2 Slaughter, 2 Devestation 1 Carnage and a Murder [I think]


I figured I would have enough choice by building two of every crusier, but in reality, I wish I had built more devestations and slaughters and no murders.

I have fleets in the cardboard boxes that my GW orders come in.  A whole fleet, and bubble wrap to protect them fits in a nice neat small box.

Edit:  For 2000 points consider a big ship.  EIther a Grand Cruiser, or a battlship.  I am told the 300 point one is good, the Planet Killer looks to be great, and the Terminus Est is also good.  The one I have is very powerful on paper [a battery of 7 lances and a huge amount of launch bays] but in reality its cross purpose as you cant lock on when reloading ordinance.

[Justnorth]

The planet killer    is a fabulous looking model, it dominates the fleet, as it should, it's a little over the top but hey, why shouldn't it be with a title like that and lots of nasty fluff to back it up. 
It's not too bad to put together and it paints up well and easily.

[Crimsonsphinx]

The planet killer is a beast of a ship in battle.  I have never used it, but I have seen it used once and it was absolutely devestating!

[Aldaris]

It certainly carries an impressive array of various destructive devices. And the model looks awesome.

[BAWTRM]

It does suffer from the same problem as the other big metal ships, only more so. A weak (and badly centered) flying stand. Definately use a metal rod instead of the plastic one and in case of the Planet Killer I've even seen two stand being used, one for the actual location of the ship and one simply for support that for game purposes didn't exist.

[Crimsonsphinx]

If you look at my models, you will see I have come up with an ingenious method of preventing it.  Never ever glue bases onto the models, and where possible buy plastics and resin models

[patsy02]

It does suffer from the same problem as the other big metal ships, only more so. A weak (and badly centered) flying stand. Definately use a metal rod instead of the plastic one and in case of the Planet Killer I've even seen two stand being used, one for the actual location of the ship and one simply for support that for game purposes didn't exist.

When I glued my battleship I just chopped off the end of a thick paint brush and fitted it with the battleship and base sockets. It got quite sturdy with the addition of GS.