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Author Topic: Site Reorganisation Discussion  (Read 63465 times)

Offline Von Trinkenessen

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #400 on: June 08, 2017, 09:19:23 PM »
I've been fantasy wargaming since a time before the sons of 'Harry The Hammer ' inherited the earth.
What do we do, we game fantasy wargames fighting as humans ,not orks, dwarves,elves,and chaos.
So why don't expand that thought, into a site that has ideas, terrain building, fluff themes, painting,tactics etc, not just whfb but other systems from the human perspective.
A working easy to post pictures on modern style gallery to inspire.
Warhammer AOS ( I don't game it but a lot of people do), 40K (same), vintage warhammer fantasy,reviewsof non GW figures and rule sets.
Have the back table as an opt into feature not a default setting.
Reviews and pictures of conventions , games days etc but keeping the fantasy edge.
These are just some of my thoughts on moving forwards not just waiting for the site to stagnate and decay.
 8-)
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Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #401 on: June 08, 2017, 09:22:54 PM »
I've been fantasy wargaming since a time before the sons of 'Harry The Hammer ' inherited the earth.
What do we do, we game fantasy wargames fighting as humans ,not orks, dwarves,elves,and chaos.
So why don't expand that thought, into a site that has ideas, terrain building, fluff themes, painting,tactics etc, not just whfb but other systems from the human perspective.
A working easy to post pictures on modern style gallery to inspire.
Warhammer AOS ( I don't game it but a lot of people do), 40K (same), vintage warhammer fantasy,reviewsof non GW figures and rule sets.
Have the back table as an opt into feature not a default setting.
Reviews and pictures of conventions , games days etc but keeping the fantasy edge.
These are just some of my thoughts on moving forwards not just waiting for the site to stagnate and decay.
 8-)

This is good stuff 👆
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #402 on: June 08, 2017, 10:21:28 PM »
I've been fantasy wargaming since a time before the sons of 'Harry The Hammer ' inherited the earth.
What do we do, we game fantasy wargames fighting as humans ,not orks, dwarves,elves,and chaos.
So why don't expand that thought, into a site that has ideas, terrain building, fluff themes, painting,tactics etc, not just whfb but other systems from the human perspective.
A working easy to post pictures on modern style gallery to inspire.
Warhammer AOS ( I don't game it but a lot of people do), 40K (same), vintage warhammer fantasy,reviewsof non GW figures and rule sets.
Have the back table as an opt into feature not a default setting.
Reviews and pictures of conventions , games days etc but keeping the fantasy edge.
These are just some of my thoughts on moving forwards not just waiting for the site to stagnate and decay.
 8-)

This is what I would like to see right here.
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Offline Darknight

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #403 on: June 09, 2017, 12:42:26 AM »
How does the news of the plans to release an Warhammer Fantasy RPG factor into all these discussions?
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #404 on: June 09, 2017, 01:40:21 AM »
I don't see why not changing the name has to mean not changing anything!
I agree.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #405 on: June 09, 2017, 07:32:54 AM »
I don't see why not changing the name has to mean not changing anything!
I agree.

Agree too.

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Here's some data that might help to understand how fora and changing fora work.



FIRST: Don't take this at face value! It needs analysis and deeper knowledge.

BUT: You can see how adding a popular segment can bring in new people and make a stagnating forum worthwhile to keep.


Now, some deeper analysis

The Finnish RPG scene in the web had stagnated and split since the late 2000's. During 2010-2011 two important fora died, planned or unplanned. So this new forum became the new focal point, and many old-timers migrated there. Thus, the situation in 2010-2011 is, in essence, a continuation of the old style RPG forum discussions. Those c. 2000 messages per year, with another 1000 or so in supporting sections, is a sort of inheritance from the older fora. (There's one, old forum still alive at this time, but the active people moved to this new forum pretty fast. That other forum continued to have c. 1000...1500 messages per year.)

On the other end, in 2015-2016 a new Facebook group was started, and it rapidly became very popular. The discussants from this forum mostly moved there, resulting in diminishing forum activity, falling joined numbers, and in early 2017 the closing of the forum. The Pathfinder fans then moved on to create a forum of their own. (That other, old forum is still around, but there are few if any new discussants, and the activity is below 1 post per day and falling.)

But what we're interested in here is what was going on in 2011-2015, with the addition of the Pathfinder section. (If you don't know what Pathfinder is, compared to traditional types of RPGs, google it.)


So this forum was for the core RPG discussions, with the normal additions of forum development, buy/sell/contact, and a briefly flourishing game design section with actual results in shops. The majority of people who joined the RPG discussions were known from other forums before. And after the initial high (which we find in any new forum), it seemed that the core RPG discussion was stalling - there wasn't much to discuss, really, and some old grudges made themselves present and felt.

The addition and growth of the Pathfinder section, however, gave new life and new meaning for the forum. It's rise is partly tied to the interactive nature of Pathfinder gaming, compared to traditional RPG's which often flourish within a group of friends or a small club. The Pathfinder players really wanted to network, wanted to discuss, wanted to have a board where they would see the activity in the whole country. They were playing the same game, the same scenarios, sharing a new and well-supported product, so had naturally much to share and discuss.

The Pathfinder section became the major beacon of the forum. It drew in new people - people who would post regularly and participate in discussions. HOWEVER, the new people almost solely discussed within the Pathfinder section. Very few of them ventured to talk in the general 'core' RPG discussions. Some still did, and it was better than nothing.


The RPG scene is different from the tabletop miniatures game scene, so direct comparison is not easy, and maybe not worthwhile. But at least we can discuss the benefits of broadening the scope. The key benefits of adding a new popular section to an old forum are:

1. Keeping up and increasing daily messages. Maybe not into the old core sections, but still. Visitors will see the forum active, and they will find fresh discussions when they log in. There's vitality.

2. Bringing new people to the forum. Maybe not to the old core sections, but still. Oldtimers will meet new people, can answer their questions, can spread the happiness of the hobby, can support people who are new and maybe a bit lost.

3. Give room for visible, positive change. If the scene is changing anyway, it's not worthwhile to castle-up and mourn the inevitable loss. Welcome the energy, be part of the new. Even if they did close the forum in the end, the makers and keepers of that 'last' Finnish RPG forum had a lively forum for years. Additionally, they can be forever happy and proud that they helped a new Pathfinder community to grow and flourish, and revitalize the Finnish RPG scene in a totally unforeseen way.

Can we learn something from this? Should we?


Not connected to this forum solely, but to the general ongoings in the Finnish RPG scene.

4. If stagnation bites, it's really hard to recover based on what was before. The stagnation might hit a single forum section, a whole forum, or the whole forum scene. Whatever it hits, the stagnation will feed even more stagnation. There seems to be a law that people will not continue on a stagnating forum, and new people will not join if they think/hear that a forum is stagnating. It needs very special and super-dedicated people to increase the activity in a stagnating forum. We're speaking of people who would alone write some 10...30 % of the forum messages, making sure that everyone has someone to talk to, and no questions are left unanswered. Super-positive people who never say against anything, but make sure everyone is welcome. And even that usually isn't enough, because these people will migrate or have a burn-out after a couple of years.

5. Internet fora are/were a late 1990's and early 2000's phenomenon. People really found each other via the fora, and the fora helped a split and marginal scene to find new strength and share ideas. The real benefits of this new networking were mostly felt during 2003...2008, when fan-based games and game talks took over from central publications and companies (not that there were many in Finland). Nowadays Facebook and some other message systems are the norm, and are bigger than the fora. People must see a special benefit in the fora in order to use them. This means they want to discuss writing long messages. Any other activity can be served with the new media, often better.

For example, the Finnish RPG scene is flourishing and still growing in FB. The Finnish figure painting gallery is moving into FB, because it's usually one click easier and much more practical with a phone/tablet. FB groups are becoming information channels for blog updates. The coolest things will always spread via cross-linking, or via a blog that is specialized in gathering the news from the front. Bad for lengthy discussions and walls of text. Good for everything else.

That was about Finland. I haven't done enough data gathering from English/international fora, but I'm ready to bet that the situation is the same.

-Z
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 07:43:55 AM by Zygmund »
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Offline Von Trinkenessen

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #406 on: June 09, 2017, 12:11:23 PM »
Quote
For example, the Finnish RPG scene is flourishing and still growing in FB. The Finnish figure painting gallery is moving into FB, because it's usually one click easier and much more practical with a phone/tablet. FB groups are becoming information channels for blog updates. The coolest things will always spread via cross-linking, or via a blog that is specialized in gathering the news from the front. Bad for lengthy discussions and walls of text. Good for everything else.

Zygmund interesting about the spread of FB like chaos :Ohmy:
I am starting to find that more and more wargame stuff is being done onFB( manufacturers, discussion groups) which I do not do being a techno luddite and having a wife with a rabid hatred of FB. I think that is something to do with the greying of areas of the hobby.(also I have a portable telephone not a hand held computer) :biggriin:
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Offline Victor

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #407 on: June 09, 2017, 12:22:01 PM »
I have suggested last year, that we should (at least) try to appeal more to old DoW, Bretonnian and Mordheim players & collectors to make this forum a home for other human fantasy factions too (we should have done so years ago). The DoW forum has been practically dead for years, the Bretonnian forum is close to death (I'm the only one currently visiting that forum - in comparison, here on W.E. we currently have 75 guests and 13 members browsing the site) and the Mordheim forum(s) are somewhere in between. I don't think that's because there are no more people out there interested in visiting and contributing on such forums - their numbers surely have dwindled alot, but if we tried to concentrate them here, it could mean a small boost. Sadly no apparent attempts were made, despite this being much less controversial than trying to bring more WH40k players here (and probably easier too).

Ofcourse we are also competing with all the social media (garbage) out there so what can we do better than the 'competition'? I would say the (possible) advantages are these:

Social media vs. Forum
volatile vs. consistent
fragmented vs. structured & concentrated
random people (more or less) vs. community (more or less :icon_wink:)

I think this also allows us to offer higher quality content and provide a more interesting (and immersive) user experience.

Offline Midaski

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #408 on: June 09, 2017, 01:14:35 PM »
It looks like I am retiring at the end of August - if we have got nowhere I should have the time to have a go at this.

If we don't find a tech guy, and if we can wait that long  :engel:
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #409 on: June 09, 2017, 01:33:07 PM »
I believe the key to "growing" (which I am not as of yet convinced is even possible) will be turning at least half of our energy to actual current, still available, games.  AoS and Warhammer 40k being the biggest.

Going back to the name, I can actually see Warhammer Empire as still being viable if one thinks of it as an Empire of Warhammer rather than connecting it exclusively to the old army choice.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #410 on: June 09, 2017, 02:42:03 PM »
Shouldn't be hard to add game-specific sub-fora, and see if people find them. The AoS sub-forum surely works. After the resurfacing of this discussion, I vote for more game categories on the front page. Let's see how it goes! Maybe need a new font for the forum name & at least partially new theme illustration.

Much harder to add content behind the navigation panel buttons. And potentially futile, since that kind of info is easy to find with google and/or youtube. Then again, there are several very cool hobby projects and threads here which could be turned into articles rather easily.

Saying this as someone who hasn't got the time to learn how to do these things.  :icon_redface:

-Z
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Offline Von Trinkenessen

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #411 on: July 02, 2017, 04:29:03 PM »
With the Photobucket situation  isn't it  now about time to sort out and update how we post photos on the forum!!!! :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall:
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #412 on: July 02, 2017, 04:34:40 PM »
Are you saying you'd like to be able to store photos on the site or you want another way to share photos into posts?
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Offline Von Trinkenessen

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #413 on: July 02, 2017, 04:49:25 PM »
When I post pictures on the Lead Adventure Forum I download direct from my PC, no farting about with hosting sites, dodgy time consuming double handling downloads and no 3rd party posting blackmail.

We've had this system for over 10 years which is a long time in the internet world...

When I am posting topic or reply I would like to post a copy of my original picture on the site and to post only pictures to a gallery in a user friendly fashion.
I for one will not be paying pb any money.
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Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #414 on: July 02, 2017, 10:27:17 PM »
Quote Von trinkenesson : When I post pictures on the Lead Adventure Forum I download direct from my PC

The Lead Adventure forum is an excellent site. I lurk there all the time and have it saved on my favs.
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Offline Badwolf

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Re: Site Reorganisation Discussion
« Reply #415 on: July 04, 2017, 12:23:16 AM »
LAF would be a very good choice of site to move to if/when W-E breathes no more. It covers practically all arenas and aspects of table top gaming.

The W-E "Back Table" crew may try to keep their sub-forum alive but there are plenty of social media sites where they could immerse themselves in like-minded politics and ideology and find greater happiness in their safe spaces.

Catch you all over on LAF folks. It's been emotional.