Topic: Steam Tank

[Inarticulate]

Me and a couple of my mates foolishly made some napalm in my GCSE chemistry class.

Suspended for 2 weeks .

[t12161991]

 

My 7th grade science teacher demonstrated what happens when hydrochloric acid meets water.

On her skin.

[Inarticulate]

[t12161991]

Frankly if she hadn't had rather serious permanent scaring, I would consider it quite funny. She was leaping around and screaming like all hell, and we had no idea what was going on. We thought she had spilled sprite or something on herself.

[Obi]

Wow she was dumb.

I like my old science teacher though:

"now, that's what that wee bit of sodium does when it meets water. Now let's go outside, because I have a bucket of water and a lump of potassium I need to get rid of"

[t12161991]

Heh, the one I've had the past two years (and will have this coming year) is totally sweet. Like for physics, we went to Cedar Point (roller coasters) to do a variety of experiments, he took some people up in his plane for other stuff... then there was the ice cream and smores during chemistry...

[Toro_Blanco]

Wow she was dumb.

I like my old science teacher though:

"now, that's what that wee bit of sodium does when it meets water. Now let's go outside, because I have a bucket of water and a lump of potassium I need to get rid of"

My chemistry teacher started off the term by going, "You're in for some fun this semester, kids.  Because chemistry is a...blast!"  We all groaned at his pun...then he detonated the odorless gas he'd been releasing over his desk, causing a massive fireball to poof in front of him, and the whole desk to writhe in flames briefly, leaving us shut up and staring at his stupid grin.

[t12161991]

Then there was the Van de Graff thingy.

Charged it up so much his hair stood on end for 2 hours.

Not to mention that the electrostatics shorted out everything from the computer to the graphing calculators in the room.

Including everyone's cell phones.

[Obi]

My chemistry teacher started off the term by going, "You're in for some fun this semester, kids.  Because chemistry is a...blast!"  We all groaned at his pun...then he detonated the odorless gas he'd been releasing over his desk, causing a massive fireball to poof in front of him, and the whole desk to writhe in flames briefly, leaving us shut up and staring at his stupid grin.

[Perforated]

My chemistry teacher started off the term by going, "You're in for some fun this semester, kids.  Because chemistry is a...blast!"  We all groaned at his pun...then he detonated the odorless gas he'd been releasing over his desk, causing a massive fireball to poof in front of him, and the whole desk to writhe in flames briefly, leaving us shut up and staring at his stupid grin.

When my chemistry teacher tried to do that we ended up having to call the fire brigade

[Inarticulate]

I remember we were learning to wire plugs in some DT class. They were basically just the normal plug with a bit of broken wire on it.

Some idiot obviously had to plug it in and turn on the mains.

240 volts basically flew across the room.

[t12161991]

I heard a similar story about a med student. In class with the defibrillator paddles charged up and on his chest he yelled "juice me up!"

Some idiot followed his instructions.

The class got to practice CPR until the EMT's arrived, and shocked him again.

[Ganymede]

I remember one day I made a batch of napalm in science class... then murdered someone.

Anyways, I digress. Back to steamtanks.

[Obi]

I remember one day I made a batch of napalm in science class

Sorry, that story is already taken. Pick something else.

[Captain Tineal]

I wrote the entire lyrics to "Peaches" by The Presidends of the United States of America on my binder.  That was as exciting as my Chemestry class ever got.

Do I win the thread now?

[Brionne]

I wrote the entire lyrics to "Peaches" by The Presidends of the United States of America on my binder.  That was as exciting as my Chemestry class ever got.

Do I win the thread now?

No. In math class, I programmed my graphics calculator to, when promted, print out the entire text of Blink 182's "Adam's Song" (including automatically repeating the refrain using command codes etc...)

[t12161991]

Now that is impressive!

One guy at my school programmed the computers to play a random Britney Spears song on command.

Remote command.

No one could figure out why they were breaking into song spontaneously...

[Beowolf]

The Stank should be droped in points.

And we should be able to buy upgrades for it.

I would like it to get T7, fightingplatform and Helblaster for a total of 300 pts.

[Perforated]

Threadomancy

[Rodman49]

The Stank should be droped in points.

And we should be able to buy upgrades for it.

I would like it to get T7, fightingplatform and Helblaster for a total of 300 pts.

The STANK is currently fine.  I find that its about the right points and has reasonable rules.  Possibly giving it handgun shots in combat as suggested in the beginning of the thread is the only thing I can think of that would be an improvement.

[Perforated]

The STANK is currently fine.  I find that its about the right points and has reasonable rules.  Possibly giving it handgun shots in combat as suggested in the beginning of the thread is the only thing I can think of that would be an improvement.

If it's one thing it's not, it's fine...
The steam tank has horrible rules is too good versus certain armies and next to useless against others.
It's far to easy to reduce to a scrap since it suffers extremely from suffering just a single wound or two.

The only thing it has going for it is the point sink, and even that is an abomination.


I put out a suggestion for a change some time ago and it's been slightly revised, here it is:

Rare
Cost: 300pts

Stats:
M  WS  BS  S  T  W   I  A  Ld
 -     -     4   5  6  10  1  -  10

Save: 1+ Armour save

Special rules:
The steam tank is treated as a monster in all respects with the following special rules:

Magic:
The steam tank is immune to all magic, be it from friend or foe, that lacks a strength value. I.e. only direct physical attacks work against the steam tank.

Killing blow and poison:
The steam tank is immune to killing blow and poison.

Characteristic tests:
The steam tank will automatically pass any characteristic test, except initiative, which it will always fail.

Generating steam points:
The steam tank is dependent on its steam engine to operate, the steam tank generates 1 steam point for every part of two wounds it has remaining up to a maximum of 4. The engineer may attempt to "super-charge" the boiler each turn. Roll a dice and subtract the number of wounds suffered by the steam tank:

-----------------------------------------------------
1 or less   
Something bad has happened, the steam tank gains no extra steam point but loses one instead.

2+         
The engineer and his crew manages to push the boiler to it's limits, add one extra steam point.
-----------------------------------------------------

1 - 2 wounds: 1 steam point
3 - 4 wounds: 2 steam points
5 - 6 wounds: 3 steam points
7 - 10 wounds: 4 steam points

Using steam points:
Same as current rules.

Steam cannon
Profile: same as current.
Rules: If the steam cannon suffers a misfire, roll on the misfire chart:

-----------------------------------------------------
1   
The steam cannon suffers a catastrophic malfunction, the cannon cannot be used for the remainder of the battle and the steam tank suffers 1D3 wounds with no save of any kind allowed.

2-3   
The cannonball gets stuck in the barrel or the cannon looses pressure. Regardless of the error the cannon does not fire this turn and the crew must spend the next round fixing it. The cannon may not fire next turn.

4-6   
There's a hiss and a release of steam, and the ball rolls out of the barrel falling harmlessly to the ground in front of the steam tank. No shot is fired this turn.
-----------------------------------------------------

[Dezzo]

If it's one thing it's not, it's fine...
The steam tank has horrible rules is too good versus certain armies and next to useless against others.
It's far to easy to reduce to a scrap since it suffers extremely from suffering just a single wound or two.

Then again, isn't that an inherent problem throughout this fragile system of WHFB?  \

Using the last 4 army books as a gauge of what direction GW developers are heading, we can notice a trend.

1. Monsters are becoming cheaper
2. Some Monsters can be run in multiples (this might get revised in 8th because of the rumored % system)
3. MANY of the "setbacks" of these units are negligible as the power of the unit more than makes up for it

Ignoring much of GW-world Fluff (because even they don't take it that seriously, cm'on!) and utilizing game mechanics and just a dash of common sense, lets look at some of the problems of the Stank in the current environment...

1) Its a 300 point rare. Obviously that needs to be lowered. Its closest rival the Ancient Stegadon is 275 and it hardly has any downsides. Next in line is the HPA... with the Warpstone Spikes upgrade (and Skaven generals do LOVE this upgrade) its only 250. Lets ignore the Doomwheel... because I get quite emotional when I talk about it... 

2) Steam Point generation based on Wounds. Those of you who play in competitive environments might notice that compared to 6th, the amount of high strength attacks in most armies have gone up. Many fielded armies have widespread S5 as an average. Its actually relatively easy to wound the Stank enough times to render it a 300 point pointsink on turn 2 / 3 with the new armies.

3) Imagine a mirror match. Empire vs Empire. What would your cannons shoot at during the first turn? The Stank of course! D6 wounds... Unless you are very unlucky (or for whatever reasons, field only 1 Cannon), its almost a 300 free victory points target. This is an issue most people do not consider when critiquing units. The crucial mirror match.

Because of how the Stank generate steam points (which is seen more as a setback than a plus point) The model shouldn't cost more than 250 points. Heck, it even has a Engineer onboard and he does nothing but shoot his gun once a while. The cost of the Engineer is built into the Stank otherwise the Stank is only 235 points. For the Stank to be worthy of 300 points it would need the Engineer to contribute more to the unit.

I think Ganymede's rewrite is a positive step forward that still can be refined further with accordance to the current trend of army book / unit design.

                  M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   Ld   Sv
Steamtank   7     3      -     6   6   6   1   S   10   1+

I think we can still work out the Steam Point generating issue by streamlining it so we can have M X. The wounds still can be 10 since we are using the old Steam Point rules but modified to better suit those with poorer maths skills (I'm really talking about myself here  )

So lets just use the current stat line of BS3 / T6 / W10 / Sv 1+ / US 10 / LD 10

BS 3 because I removed the Engineer. The Empire needs to cut some costs. 

Steam Point Generation: At the start of every turn, the Steam Tank's controller chooses to generate Steam Points. Choose how many Steam Points you wish to generate. Roll 1D6. Add the result to the number you chose. If the number is larger than the amount of wounds the Steam Tank currently has, it takes 1d3 wounds with no saves of whatever allowed and generates no Steam Points that turn. All Steam Points left over during the end of any turn is lost.

(Note that I didn't put a limit to how many Steam Points you can generate a turn. If you feel lucky, try generating 9 steam points...  )

Equipment: Main Cannon, Steam Gun

Special Rules: Cause Terror, Large Target, Unbreakable

Magic: The Steam Tank ignores any magic effects that has no strength value.

Movement: The Steam Tank is able to move only when it spends Steam Points to do so. It moves 3" per Steam Point spent. The Steam Tank also moves like a Chariot, however, it cannot pivot unless it spends at least 1 Steam Point during its movement phase.

Charging: When declaring charges, the controlling player chooses how many Steam Points to use. The Steam Tank's charge distance is 3" per Steam Point spent. If the Steam Tank fails its charge, it will move the full distance according to how many Steam Points were spent.

Close Combat: The Steam Tank does 1d6 S6 impact hits per steam point spent when it charges into combat.

Grind: When the Steam Tank is in close combat, it causes 1d3 S6 auto hits per steam point spent into any unit it is in base contact with.

Main gun: Like current.

Steam gun: Like current.

Master Engineer upgrade: 50 points. You may purchase a Master Engineer upgrade for the Steam Tank.

You may choose to activate one of the following abilities during your turn:

1. Roll 1D6, Steam Tank regenerates 1 wound on a 5+ during the start of your turn.
2. You may choose to reroll your Steam Point generation this turn.
3. You may choose to reroll your artillary dice for the Steam Tank's Cannon this turn.

Base cost: 250 points.

[Joelatron]

I like the last 2 suggestions

except the last one with the auto wound hits?
bit too much
s6 auto hits would be better-at least make it roll to wound!

and purchasing the engineer is a great idea + repairing wounds!!!!
but should be on a 6+ to stop the cheese complaints
and with re-rolling steampoints options = very less likely to take wounds in first place.

+ since plastic sprue has HLR etc-give engineer ability to purchase weapon options with a shoot or use ability rule...like he does with normal warmachines

[Dezzo]

I like the last 2 suggestions

except the last one with the auto wound hits?
bit too much
s6 auto hits would be better-at least make it roll to wound!

and purchasing the engineer is a great idea + repairing wounds!!!!
but should be on a 6+ to stop the cheese complaints
and with re-rolling steampoints options = very less likely to take wounds in first place.

+ since plastic sprue has HLR etc-give engineer ability to purchase weapon options with a shoot or use ability rule...like he does with normal warmachines

Cheers!

You are right, I made a mistake about the auto wounds part. Should be auto hits. I'll change that.

I agree with the 6+ regen roll (but then again, Fantasy regen rules are 4+.... 5+ is hardly cheesy.)

I like re-rolling steampoints... when the Stank is in combat and taking auto hits, it quickly becomes useless when it takes 2 - 3 wounds.

The regen essentially for the Stank when it loses wounds through missile fire. The re-rolling of Steam Points is for it when you need the extra 3" to charge or grind when you already taken wounds. It is very useful.

Although giving the engineer a HLR option is cool... i doubt anybody will take that because it will up the cost of the Stank to over 300.  . He will come with the default BS 4 repeater handgun though.

[Perforated]

So lets just use the current stat line of BS3 / T6 / W10 / Sv 1+ / US 10 / LD 10

Fair enough.

BS 3 because I removed the Engineer. The Empire needs to cut some costs. 

Sorry to say this but you haven't really saved a single point by removing the engineer. Why is that? Well, the fact that the engineer in the steam tank isn't a Master engineer in any shape or form. Reducing the BS to 3 is a marginal thing since the steam tank uses it very rarely.

Steam Point Generation: At the start of every turn, the Steam Tank's controller chooses to generate Steam Points. Choose how many Steam Points you wish to generate. Roll 1D6. Add the result to the number you chose. If the number is larger than the amount of wounds the Steam Tank currently has, it takes 1d3 wounds with no saves of whatever allowed and generates no Steam Points that turn. All Steam Points left over during the end of any turn is lost.

Apart from being able to generate more steam points you have done nothing to mitigate the steam tanks ridiculous weakness. I.e. that as soon as it suffers a wound or two you're left with two choices, play it safe and have a chunk of metal that can move about 6" per turn and do little or no damage in combat/shooting, or you can take some risks and get normal potential out of it. However, since you've increased the penalty for failing the steam point generation roll to ridiculous levels I for one would only rarely take the risk.

Equipment, special rules etc.

What unit type is the Steam tank? Rather important don't you think.

Close Combat: The Steam Tank does 1d6 S6 impact hits per steam point spent when it charges into combat.

So during the most optimal of circumstances the steam tank can pull a 27" charge that inflicts 9D6 S6 impact hits? Does this sound balanced to you? People complain enough about it as it is. D3 is just fine, and a cap on the amount of steam points is necessary for obvious reasons.

Main gun: Like current.

The current version of the steam cannon penalizes using it far too much, a misfire causes D3 wounds with no saves. On a fresh steam tank (no lost wounds) this is likely to reduce it's guaranteed efficiency between 25 and 75% (assuming that the roll for steam points is a '6').

Use this instead:

-----------------------------------------------------
1   
The steam cannon suffers a catastrophic malfunction, the cannon cannot be used for the remainder of the battle and the steam tank suffers 1D3 wounds with no save of any kind allowed.

2-3   
The cannonball gets stuck in the barrel or the cannon looses pressure. Regardless of the error the cannon does not fire this turn and the crew must spend the next round fixing it. The cannon may not fire next turn.

4-6   
There's a hiss and a release of steam, and the ball rolls out of the barrel falling harmlessly to the ground in front of the steam tank. No shot is fired this turn.
-----------------------------------------------------

Master Engineer upgrade: 50 points. You may purchase a Master Engineer upgrade for the Steam Tank.

You may choose to activate one of the following abilities during your turn:

1. Roll 1D6, Steam Tank regenerates 1 wound on a 5+ during the start of your turn.
2. You may choose to reroll your Steam Point generation this turn.
3. You may choose to reroll your artillary dice for the Steam Tank's Cannon this turn.

This I like.


EDIT: cleared up the quoting mess...