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Author Topic: Magic the gathering...gathering thread  (Read 481240 times)

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5975 on: December 10, 2014, 12:11:11 PM »
also, rufus is more experienced and has played longer, so flat out knows which cards are broken or whatever from sets he played in.

I'm sure Vendilion clique was a key offender in fairy tribal which dominated standard at the time, but if you didn't know that it's easier to overlook.

but if you delve into the value you can see it- a 3 power flyer for 3 mana. quite good. flash, ok excellent. thoughtsieze or card cycling yourself for free. amazing.
3 cards in one.

I tried to use sower of temptation the other day
"oh it's only the same effect as control magic"
yes, but with a free 2/2 flyer. 2 cards in one.
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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5976 on: December 10, 2014, 12:17:26 PM »
That black demon cannon used board wipes you and leaves an evasive 6 power, but no one really had issues with it. Elesh doesn't do a total board wipe and is blockable by anything. I'm still not saying it isn't good, but I am curious whether it would have as big an impact as you think or if it would just get killed next turn mostly.

And if all off us bar rufus play a different brand of magic, shouldn't we judge how good things are in our meta by our standards? It's not like what we pay actually hurts rufus that bad judging from records...

Also, I have been researching maelstrom wanderer rufus and can't find anything suggesting it is one of the midst horrible generals, unlike grimgrin who pops up a lot! I want to discover why he is so nasty, lemme know.
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Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5977 on: December 10, 2014, 12:32:56 PM »
elesh CARRIES ON fucking with the board, and buffs your own creatures.
elesh stops me casting 12/33 of the creatures in my marath deck
and stops me casting 19/37 creatures in my roon deck.
the fact she can attack is a side effect, when she makes your 1/1 tokens kill your opponents 4/4 creatures.


when you cast maelstrom, you also get 2 more free cards. and he's haste, the best version is hammer of purphoros which is 3 mana.
so he's effectively a 7/5 creature with haste for 5 mana, that also brings in 2 more cards. those 3 fatties you just played can attack immediately, due to his haste. tempo advantage

hes 4 cards in one.

card advantage.


I still think rufus should have played the deck, though!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 12:45:21 PM by Finlay »
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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5978 on: December 10, 2014, 01:14:30 PM »
In fairness he said he would. I just felt like I was in a lose lose situation cos if I won it would be hollow, if that makes sense.

Anyways, rufus mentioned that he is well known as one of the top generals but I had trouble finding him on any lists which was weird.

Bare in mind that he could easily cascade into something kinda useless too. No guarantee of huge guys.
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5979 on: December 10, 2014, 01:23:01 PM »
if your deck has anything over 8cmc, or useless, you're doing it wrong.

but yes, he might drop a mana dork or utility creature. Still good, though!

Even if you don’t get brilliant creatures, its huge CA because you’ve drawn through those and are now more likely to get something good. It also filters away lands and stuff which you’re probably set with if you’re casting him anyway.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:33:31 PM by Finlay »
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5980 on: December 10, 2014, 03:15:10 PM »
also, rufus is more experienced and has played longer, so flat out knows which cards are broken or whatever from sets he played in.

I'm sure Vendilion clique was a key offender in fairy tribal which dominated standard at the time, but if you didn't know that it's easier to overlook.

but if you delve into the value you can see it- a 3 power flyer for 3 mana. quite good. flash, ok excellent. thoughtsieze or card cycling yourself for free. amazing.
3 cards in one.

I tried to use sower of temptation the other day
"oh it's only the same effect as control magic"
yes, but with a free 2/2 flyer. 2 cards in one.

But does that make a card wrong? There are a bombload of excellent cards that do that which we all use. Iroas is a good example of rediculous value. And the zombie captain that rufus used is 3 mana for a guy with death touch. Not bad already. Then he makes the rest of your guys +1. Totally worth 3 mana. Then whenever one of your guys dies he hits opponent for 1. That should be worth at least a mana or two. And he is somehow uncommon.

3 cards in one is not unusual really. Anyhow, I think overall my point is that it sucks spending time making decks only to discover they are evil or whatnot. Not saying that's anyone's fault. I guess I might have to just stick to certain decks that are inoffensive.
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5981 on: December 10, 2014, 03:37:38 PM »
also, rufus is more experienced and has played longer, so flat out knows which cards are broken or whatever from sets he played in.

I'm sure Vendilion clique was a key offender in fairy tribal which dominated standard at the time, but if you didn't know that it's easier to overlook.

but if you delve into the value you can see it- a 3 power flyer for 3 mana. quite good. flash, ok excellent. thoughtsieze or card cycling yourself for free. amazing.
3 cards in one.

I tried to use sower of temptation the other day
"oh it's only the same effect as control magic"
yes, but with a free 2/2 flyer. 2 cards in one.

But does that make a card wrong? There are a bombload of excellent cards that do that which we all use. Iroas is a good example of rediculous value. And the zombie captain that rufus used is 3 mana for a guy with death touch. Not bad already. Then he makes the rest of your guys +1. Totally worth 3 mana. Then whenever one of your guys dies he hits opponent for 1. That should be worth at least a mana or two. And he is somehow uncommon.

3 cards in one is not unusual really. Anyhow, I think overall my point is that it sucks spending time making decks only to discover they are evil or whatnot. Not saying that's anyone's fault. I guess I might have to just stick to certain decks that are inoffensive.

that zombie captain is nowhere near the same league we're discussing. He's not card advantage, just a quite good zombie tribal card.

iroas isnt card advantage either!

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/lo/basics-card-advantage-2014-08-25


I do think your card radar is a bit off, siby, sometimes you compare cards which are really not comparable, and think things which are blatantly OP are not

Sorry!


maelstrom wanderer was printed in a precon So there was loads of them printed, and he’s banned in modern (ding ding, alarm bells) and he still costs £12 quid, value driven entirely from EDH.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 03:40:19 PM by Finlay »
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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5982 on: December 10, 2014, 07:03:05 PM »
Well I did say I didn't understand the cards.

Where'd you good that ban list? The ones I am finding don't have him. I am curious to read up more on his horrificness though.
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5983 on: December 10, 2014, 10:40:39 PM »
Don't worry Siby, I am also card power blind. I honesty didn't think Rafiq was that strong when I built a deck with him.
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.

Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5984 on: December 11, 2014, 06:28:23 PM »
Less embarrassing for you though, you've only been playing a few months. I been playing for years.  :wink:
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5985 on: December 12, 2014, 10:20:30 AM »
Well I did say I didn't understand the cards.

Where'd you good that ban list? The ones I am finding don't have him. I am curious to read up more on his horrificness though.
my mistake, he's not banned, he's just not modern legal because he was printed only in planecahse then commander, not a "normal" set.
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5986 on: December 12, 2014, 03:25:58 PM »
I mainly took him cos he looked like fun rather than cos I thought he'd beat all your butts.  :-P

His randomness seemed like sometimes it would be amazing, sometimes it would be a big flop. Same reason I love my jelea deck even though it usually falls flat and when it does win it is in spite of her rather than because of her. Same reason I use the hurricanum or fanatics in warhammer. Something different with some random thrown in.
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Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5987 on: December 12, 2014, 06:51:16 PM »
Even if his randomness draws bad cards, he's still earning you card advantage
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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5988 on: December 12, 2014, 08:14:31 PM »
I think you are missing my point there. My point was that I didn't take him for the card advantage in an attempt to waac you guys. I took him because random seemed fun. I'm pretty sure I am not using him to his full potential what with all our restrictions and the fact that I make sub par decks anyhow.

Cannon has been using one of the most hated edh cards for a while, I forget if it is Avacyn or Iona but anyhows, it's not that bad because he hasn't made a disgusting deck with it. He wins some, he loses some. We are pretty friendly players so I'm not sure you would need to worry about maelstrom as much as you think you would.

It comes back to my point of context. I know you didn't like my earlier comparison but that Zombie Lord guy for 3 is pretty amazing in a tuned zombie deck right? We can agree on that. But in a non zombie deck he is ok at best. I think most cards depend on what deck they are in as to their actual real power. Some, like say, primeval titan, sol ring etc are just good in anything.

Some cards have blatantly shifting power depending on what is in the rest of the deck. Eg Populate cards are amazing in an all token deck, tremendous value. But in a non token deck they are entirely useless. Same card, differing power. That is true of a huge amount of cards. Now Maelstrom may still be very good due to his card advantage thing, regardless of what you cards are, but surely even his quality alters somewhat by what is in the rest of your deck. Even if it is just a bit.

Maybe I will play vs cannon with him some time just to see how he does. Maybe against Avacyn. 8 mana commander-off!
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5989 on: December 12, 2014, 08:20:52 PM »
It's all a bit moot though as I am going to try and go back to abiding by the rules when I play you guys.

I'll save the fun whacky stuff for playing cannon!  :-P
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5990 on: December 13, 2014, 01:12:52 AM »
Anyone on to play now?
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.

Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5991 on: December 13, 2014, 01:39:32 AM »
You missed us! I'd come on but I have work in 7 hours.I am so looking forward to getting sleep again once christmas is over!

Only played one game, with varolz. I like that deck cos it uses all sorts of cards one would never consider, but he does have a habit of getting very big very fast and has super good dodge skills. This time I at least had the sense to wait a turn before casting so I could sac to avoid the inevitable shuffle to deck. I still almost threw it away later but luckily drew some creatures. What I didn't tell you fin is that I started with 7 lands, shuffled two away and drew two more!
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Finlay

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5992 on: December 13, 2014, 01:44:32 AM »
It wos rancor wot dun it
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5993 on: December 13, 2014, 08:20:32 AM »
That's true. Probably could have chump blocked me till your dragons came out otherwise.
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5994 on: December 13, 2014, 03:31:02 PM »
What about now? Anyone on now?
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.

Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5995 on: December 13, 2014, 03:48:49 PM »
Can be!
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5996 on: December 13, 2014, 05:20:04 PM »
To answer your question cannon,I may not be on again today, got a photo shoot in an hour or two then a housewarming thing so probably pretty crazy! Those were fun games though as usual. Felt like I was in both of them even when pretty behind.
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Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Syphon

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5997 on: December 14, 2014, 05:19:59 PM »
So you guys play EDH? Good. Good. Gooood...



Downloading card images now. Soon you will learn to fear me in a game I am actually good at!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 05:25:32 PM by Syphon »
Now go! Ride towards the sun atop these noble steeds
You're our spandex heroes, now fullfil your destinies
And so we turned and rode beyond the castle walls
with shiny codpiece armour that doth cradle our chivalrous balls

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5998 on: December 14, 2014, 07:13:37 PM »
I'm on now while I watch football if anyone wants to play.
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.

Offline Siberius

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Re: Magic the gathering...gathering thread
« Reply #5999 on: December 15, 2014, 12:53:38 AM »
I should warn you syphon. There are additional rules, no cards costing over £10, no infect. That might be it. I think there are a few other cards banned but rufus or fin well remember those better.
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic.