Topic: Foreign Ministry

[Veldemere]

I agree but when I suggested Woodies I got shot down in flames, since then I will not shoot anyone down if they can have justification. As I said I will not support but he may be able to provide a reasonable rationale.

[farmer]

My brother plays as Woodies and is a member of Asrai. He has told me that if ANYBODY gets in his way then they will die. Typical woodelf, there not to be trusted.

[cisse]

I'm not comfortable with talking to the VC's either...

[Veldemere]

Well looks like it will make no difference, despite any work I have put in I think we will lose the woodies, looks like we stand alone, apologies for my failure.

[cisse]

Don't be sorry, you did a great job. We were always going to have to fight an uphill battle to secure an alliance with them, seems like they favoured dwarves from the start. What still pisses me off though is the fact that the dwarves bought them by promising them our land. Is a non-agression pact with woodies still possible? I hope we can aquire one with the dwarves too, and if we have some of the HE's on our side...

[farmer]

Thank-you for all your efforts Veldemere, they have been noted.

[farmer]

Maybe we could tempt the woodies by giving them the Drakwald forest. Kill two birds with one stone. We get there help and they get to kill beastmen

[Veldemere]

Sadly having observed the woodie forum for a while I notice there  are only a few people who post on it all of whom seem to hate the Empire, there seems to be very little room for free thought.

[Reynard_of_Bogenhafen]

the best thing to do with them was to just gauge reactions from my thread on asrai, then jump in...

the worst thing was to make demands... they were never gonna go for that...

[farmer]

Oh well looks like we will be hunting down woodies as well this summer 

[farmer]

I will make contact with the Woodelves today. Although I not hope full of a good responce I feel like I have to try. Does anybody have a message they would like me to pass on to them. Anything that is not gonna get me killed that is 

[Warlord]

In our relations with the HE, why have we not just offered them the crown? They want the crown, and good relations with the dwarfs so they can get back the phoenix crown. If they help the Dwarves, the Dwarves will not give the Phoenix crown back UNLESS they actually have the Nemesis Crown. The only way they can bargain with the Dwarves, is NOT to help them.

If we find it, we give it to them because they are so powerful and all knowing. All we ask is they ally with us, and non-aggression the dwarfs. No case of we will keep it, or we will try and safe-keep it. We will out-right give it to them. Desperate times...

Furthermore, what about the Chaos Dwarves?
Someone had the genius idea of giving away the mountains, why not offer it to the Chaos Dwarves? There are all kinds of races coming to the empire, all kinds of races that can be made slaves, especially their hated 'good' cousins. Whats more, while the Dwarves will be focused on the Empire, the Chaos Dwarves can attack the rear of the Dwarves, to take their ancestral holds. Plus, if we bring them in on it enough in the fluff, they may even get a new book 

The DE idea is a good one, but most likely won't work. The best I think we can offer them is asking them to attack the O&G in the Empire, and take them as slaves. I'm sure Orcs would be good slaves, stronger than humans and more resistant to the whip (the DE like that stuff). We can make mentions of them cutting off our retreating enemies and slaving them - and we let it happen because they aren't attacking us... Major wins for the DE getting HEAPS of slaves, and lower losses because we are non-aggression for them.

I still think the VC idea needs a bit more exploring... This special character I think is probably a major player without us knowing, however if we can suggest to the Vampire Counts that the Dwarves are the ones who are threatening their lands to look for some 'crown' we can get them attack them. They are close to the mountains after all.

Seriously though, the Dwarves are being immature in their alliances, we might as well play a little dirty. I am so sick of reading in official fluff "the Empire is still recovering from 'x' war". When are we gonna prosper damn it!

The main problem I see in this was the thought that actually went into the campaign. They chose the 3 most recent races to get out some new miniatures, rather than actually think about what races can ally, and what races won't, and what ones are neutral. They probably would have made more money releasing miniatures not from the recent ranges as well, as that way people might buy the army for the new miniatures, rather than the recent release. Ah well....

[farmer]

DE, VC ,CD  these are the armies we should be fighting. We need to stay true to our faith in the Emperor and Sigmar. At this rate next it will be chaos we will be asking for help. Warlord you do realize what happen to the last people that were in alliance with evil. They were judged unworthy and destroyed (Mordheim).

I for one would rather die true Imperial soldier and sit with Sigmar then to sell my sole to Chaos and the undead

[Reynard_of_Bogenhafen]

ruddy manfred,

jeez why hadn't i thought of that...

All we have to do is send Volkmar round to Drakenhof, knock on the door remind him that it was a grand theogonist that killed his papa and bobs your uncle he's on our side...

well, it worked in SOC  

Chaos dwarfs are already sided with the Orcs,

Dark elves, rather pull my spleen out of my left nostril

High elves should really be working with us. Even though the only elves that give a rats about us are Teclis and Gilead...

Is there a kislevite stand alone forum? or do we fully encompass that area?

[farmer]

 

[Reynard_of_Bogenhafen]

As far as the well being of the empire goes unfortunately the undead and the empire have very similar goals at heart.

Both very strongly oppose chaos, the undead under Vlad and manfredd are less blood thirty than the likes of Konrad Kurze.

Manfredd like his sire believe the people are cattle to be harvested but sparingly, chaos hates mankind and would wipe it from the earth... for the existance of the vampires this simply can't be allowed. So as silly as it sounds allying with them is a strong background based motion. If we really wanted to we could hunt the Von Carstein's down and wipe them from the face of the planet, it was basically achieved during the reign of Vlad Von Carstein, Konrad Kurze added further to the slaughter by removing the only truly powerful Vampires remaining fearing (with the exception of Manfredd who was in Khemri at the time) leaving very few true get still functioning. Even after the three hundred years that has passed since hel fenn the numbers of the actual vampires are really quite low and they know it.

Manfredd is quite fearful of Volkmar because he knows if any man can bring down the Von carstein 'legacy' it would be him with his religious zeal...

Manfredd would side with us as far as background is concerned, but it would cost us the recognition of sylvannia as a state, which in truth we basically do anyway. Or the promise not to wipe him of the soul of our grosby slippers till a later date!

[farmer]

Surgesting dealing with the Undead. Shame on you Reynard and you have nerve to call yourself a man of the Empire.

[Reynard_of_Bogenhafen]

I'm not suggesting, i'm only saying that background would support it.

Personally i'd like to stomp all the filthy leeches into the dust (I'm a big witch hunter/Huss/Volkmar nut)

I just read enough to know that the only thing that matters is that manfredd is actually worried we will actually take him down and that makes him pliable. besides one of our great heroes was a vampire, Genevieve and she saved Karl Franz from being necked by the great traitor Oswald... so not all of them are bad. they were human before there were vampires, and for some the body changes but thier loyaties don't.

For example Jerek, once grandmaster of the white wolves was sired by Vlad VC, even in death a truer soldier of the empire would be hard to find!

He recognised that only in death he could be absolved,

and I agree...

[wissenlander]

Good work to everyone that's been working at this stuff.  I too am a little miffed that the Dwarfs turn their backs on us so quickly, even if GW said they should.  I'm done dealing with them, they're not listening to reason, and they tell us of our wrongs when they too soon forget the 2,000+ years we've been friends.

Anyways, we either have to decide if we are going to try and get any allies, or not.  Farmer, I agree with you that it doesn't go fluff wise that we should ally with the 'dark ones'.  But, if any of the 'good' races were to do so, then it would be us.  Everyone seems to think that we're fickle and weak.  If they force our hands, then we must react.

We have none of our old friends to back us up, fluff wise or treaty wise through the forums, so we may have to look at other avenues to ensure that we don't get overrun.

This was supposed to be a little frolick in the woods during the summer, but quickly looks like we will have to send most of our armies to beat back EVERY other race in the world.

*Edit:  I just thought of something else to point out.  Yes, the Brets are against us fluff wise, but so is everyone else.  They have not said they will support us, but the general consensus thus far say that they will not attack and some even suggest that it is the Dwarfs who are wrong in this case.  If we are seeking to try to speak reason to the Dwarfs, even though they too are beset against us, then what is the difference in trying to talk to the Brets?  At least they realize that this campaign was set up poorly, and it makes absolute no sense for allies of a year ago to attack one another over something so stupid.

[cisse]

@ Wissenlander, concerning the Brets: If the dwarfs win, they get the NC - big deal, I don't care too much for who gets it if it's not an evil race. If the Bret's win, they get to grab land from us. Doesn't really matter the blokes at the Round Table don't agree with that, it's GW deciding what happens. Now, that said, I do agree that we should try to get them on our side. Heck, if we can get the nations of Men united on this, we might stand a good chance of improving relations between our countries.

Dwarfs are currently making a decision as to what stance they will take towards us. I do not want us to be their lackeys, so I wouldn't like it if we signed a pact that demands oo much of us. I'm still angry at them for offering our lands to the woodies... I'm all in favour of a noagression pact, though.

Asrai seem to be a lost cause indeed.

Asur... We may be able to get some of them on our side. It seems like they will have different factions i this campaign, each doing its own stuff. One would be supporting the Empire.

I'm starting work on the Lizardmen now.

[wissenlander]

I agree about the Brets.  I just think that we shouldn't dismiss the help we may get from them.  They're the one forum right now that looks semi favourably upon us.

[wissenlander]

A somewhat 'official' treaty has been presented to the Brets by Cisse and myself. 

1)We should fight together, not against one another. At the very least a non-agression pact.

2)If any of your young nobles is in a search for land, they may have a tract granted them by the Emperor. In such case they should respect the authority of the local Elector and the Emperor.

3)If either party finds the crown we shall call a council of the wise. This would include races that we have in the past thought of as friends. Those of the Elves of Ulthuan and the Loren, Dwarfs, and representatives of the fair land of Brettonia and the Empire, respectively.


That's what it entails.  Tostig, I could sure use your help on this.  Or anyone else who can write in a good lawyer style, that's one area in which I lack.

It's just a start, the Dwarfs have presented an offiicial treaty, and I'm not going to let the little fellows beat us to another ally.  The Brets do look favorably upon us, enough to where they may be the one forum that does side with us, outside of a non-agression pact.

[The Chosen Pistolier]

The asrai (at least some of them) seem a little more liking toward us now. An official offer was posted by Veldemere and the general responses are roughly:

We will recognize the Sovereignty of the Elves of Athel Loren in perpetuity
They do not really care about it.

We will alo observe a cessation of Imperic human rights of any citizen foolish enough to stray within the realm of Athel Loren
Don't care. Better then nothing though I suppose.

Full Asrai sovereignty of the area known by man as the Green Heart of the Great Forest upon discovery of the Nemesis Crown.
This must be made clearer, i.e. which areas are covered by this and so on.

Understanding and full individual negotiation rights of any Asrai enclaves within Empire territories.

Assistance with the discovery and destruction of Beastmen within the forests of the Empire.
Great!

Full assistance in the prevention of the Nemesis crown falling into the hands of any enemy of the Asrai.
Great! They wish that we are clearer about what's going to happen to the crown though. I don't think they will let us have it.

Full disclosure of any Chaos movements around any area known to be of interest of the Asrai.
Great!

The implementation and application of the Hunters of Sigmar, a Knightly order dedicated to patrolling the perimeters of any woodland with the specific remit of prevention of Chaos insurgence.
Great!

Our Requests as party to treaty;

Asrai assistance with prevention of the spread of the scourge of Bretonnia into lands controlled by the Empire.
They do not seem positive about this.

Protection of Imperial Man within the great forest until such time as the Nemesis Crown is found and or destroyed.
Clearer, most did not want to send forces to protect men, but they wouldn't attack them I guess they could assist if people were attacked by beasts and they were close by.

Recognition of the Men of Sigmar as a distinct and developing race and accorded all rights as such.
They don't really care.

Overall it needs to be made clearer and more rightforward (they don't seem to like diplomat speak so much) and the problem with the crown itself needs to be addressed.

[wissenlander]

They got a little uppity on the whole soveirgnty issue.  It's theirs, big whoop.  They can have it.  The only thing that we can probably agree upon is non-agression based upon both sides fighting evil.  That and the Hunters of Sigmar helping in the riddance of beastmen.

We're not going to get much better than that, especially since we can't officially say we'll hand over the crown.  I proposed that we should have a non-agression agreement and cooperation in destroying beastmen.  Let's see what they think.

[The Chosen Pistolier]

Sounds good