Topic: Tactical Decision Game 4: Gnarltooth's Forest Goblin Crew

[zifnab0]

I messed up with the Creeper placement, wanted to threaten the center and bounce the Demi's potentially, didn't work out.  However what move should we have made different once they were placed?

Trying to bounce the Demigryphs was a bad idea.  They were steadfast for at least another 2-3 rounds of combat and the Arachnarok had a good chance of catching them if they fled (or forced them to flee again if they broke during our turn).

The turn they came in I would have turned and shot at the small archer unit.  Instead you shot at the Wizard bunker and dealt two wounds - those two wounds would have forced Arc2 to test for panic, possibly causing more panic.

Turn 3 you charged Arc2.  Another mistake, IMO.  Instead, I would have used your free reforms to snake through the archers and halberds and positioned the Deff Creepers in a position to charge the Halberds and shoot at one of our small archer units(leaving room for the GSC overrun).  Force more panic tests.

Turn 4 saw us attempt to block the Deff Creepers with another archer unit.  You took the bait.  Should have again used your unlimited free reforms to squeeze around and take some pot shots at our unengaged witch hunter.

The Deff Creepers have several advantages:
1) they're fast
2) they're maneuverable
3) they're a threat to small units
4) they've got a range advange

All that makes them one of the perfect harassment and anti-chaff units.  Small units are hesitant to engage them in combat, but they have a big threat area - either for charging or ranged shots - and force your opponent to focus undue attention to trap and neutralize them.

You let us control where and how the Deff Creepers engaged by getting trapped by our archers and wasting your attacks against small units.

[Noght]

Good points.  I think one of those charges was an Animosity fail, but I need to check.
EDIT: Yeah we rolled a 1 and 6 on Animosity so we had to charge Archer 2 on turn 3.

I guess in retrospect they should have ambushed from the East of the Halberdiers.

[MrAbyssal]

yeah, turn 3 or 4 we failed animosity and had to charge the Archer Bait instead of chasing after the Wizard. The wizard then proceeded to explode to it ended up not being a huge deal compared to our original plan.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Alright, don’t lame out on me.

The After Action is one of the most important parts of the TDG!  Take the time to put in some input…whether you were a participant or an innocent bystander.


A few thoughts of mine:

This being my 4th TDG, I have noticed a trend.  Playing the game as a group offers some advantages that you don’t get standing over a table all by yourself, as well as it has some weaknesses that seep in when multiple minds get together.

I think one main advantage is that not many options get missed by the forum.  If there is a good move, solid spell combo, benefit to calling out a challenge, etc. usually one or more people will spot it.  Not much gets missed.  I suppose one of the goals of the TDG is to shape all of our perspectives so we can all better spot those golden opportunities in our own games and become better generals.

I think this TDG highlighted one of the key disadvantages of an ad-hoc group….  The “feel” (or Shih from my Tao of the Empire thread) may not always be grasped by those who did not create the list.  We can all look at the rulebook and see in black and white what the units are capable of….but that doesn’t mean that we easily can take someone else’s army and put all the units together in the synergy they were intended for.  Team Empire didn’t find the Tao of their Empire army until mid-way through the game.  Like many have said already, they were fighting from behind early on and were always playing catch-up.

Another thing I think-  the Empire list was fluffy and unconventional…  but the Goblin list was functionally fluffy.  In other words, even though the Goblin list was oozing with fluff, it was constructed with just about all its bases covered to make it tactically proficient.  This came out in the game….while both teams had the disadvantage described above, the Empire had a bigger hill to climb by the very nature of the list.

Regardless, TDGs are about the decisions, not who wins or loses.  I, for one, had a great time with it and learned a lot.

--Using all the fast cavalry gave me a better appreciation for their strengths/weaknesses in 8th.  They will usually not “collect” enemy VPs based on their cost…but they serve a valuable function that can’t easily be replicated.

--I know many people are not happy with the Outriders performance….but I will tell you from the Gobbos side of things, their potential was feared and they became priority target #1.  Knowing that, if the game was played over again, I bet Empire could deploy/protect them in ways that would allow them to churn up some greenskins and cause some hell.

--My son and I have played/used O&G off and on over the years and I will tell you I have learned a new appreciation for Gobbo Shaman magic.  The hexes and buffs are not the most powerful, but can be used to compliment and bring out the most of the greenskins.  Stealing dispel dice is just plain rude too…

This TDG was a good primer for starting our new tactica on O&G.  I plan to put out some threads over the next few days to get us started.

I will probably take a little break from running TDGs while I try to get the Tactica board itself going…but I think Noght is in the process of organizing a TDG with a few new ideas/options in it…and he has my full support.

Stay tuned to the Tactica Board please!

 
HHG

[Noght]

--What did the team do well in?
I think the team handled the Deployment and moves very well, including some of the Animosity curve balls.  Kudos to the 6.5" Deployment of WM and Animosity Squabblers (something I never think of).
Use of Magic Spell Priority and Dicing.

--What did the team struggle with?
Not much, there were less of us so decisions went pretty quick.

--Based on the above, what would you have done different?
My error with the Creepers (should have been East of Halberdiers) going for the Knock out Blow on the Demigryphs.  I should have deferred a bit on those guys.

--What were your favorite units?  Favorite combat?
I love the Arachnarok, combat results aside.  In a game without Cannons it has the potential to Dominate.  Little Waagh Spells are well "sneaky" good and I think it's more of an "Art" rather than "Math" (like Lore of Life for example). 

--What was the “key” turn?
The turn where the Demigryphs overperformed on Wound delivered and AS saved (was it top of 3?), totally flipped the combat.  Also blowing the Animosity on turn 5 prevented the Bus from entering the Tower for the win and leaving the game hanging on a failed turn 6 charge.

--What was the central reason the Gobbos came away with the victory?
Empire Deployment.  The random set up hurt them, especially both Outriders in the Center.  Once the Halberdiers ended up out East, it was kind of a tough uphill climb for them.  Willingness to throw away units to keep them there helped a bunch.

--Finally, what was the main thing you learned?
That the TDG and HHG are awesome!  I did like the "positive" tension between the two Army Commands, which added another layer of subtlety to the game.

AND, it's motivated me to run the next one.  Details to follow but here is a quick Synopsis.

• Empire vs Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, or Tomb Kings (outside chance)
• Lists created from my "pool" of available models, WYSIWYG, no proxies.  So if I only have 1 Hellstorm, that's what you can take
• Actual Board photos with Chronicler back up for tactical decisions
• Investigating using a Dice Log online so people can "check" the rolls, I'll cut and paste the results into the forum
• Probably won't be up and running until after Jan. 18th, though list building can happen earlier after teams get chosen

Any suggestions, PM me!
Noght

[Windelov]

A (little late) after-action report

--What did the team do well in?
Exploiting opportunities when they were presented and adapting the master plan accordingly (while not forgetting it). I need to attribute this to the team, as I for example did not see the benefit of the turn 2 charge; I believe this was a strong call for our team even though the direct match-up perhaps wasn’t the strongest (Arachnoid vs DemiGs especially). Allthough all teamplayers made very valuable contributions, credits for our smooth team-work should go for defacto, although not official, team-leader Noght.
--What did the team struggle with?
Not much.
--Based on the above, what would you have done different?
We should have moved the Squiqs closer to the centre, I think the magic forest, upper-right, forest kind of freaked us too much. This kept them from combat all together.

--What were your favorite units?  Favorite combat (that didn't happend)?
Small spiders cav. The obstacle strider/forest fast-cav strider combi. They can pretty much go around or on-top of  everything.. I would have really have liked to charge the wizard in the tower on turn 5 with the creepers, him not being able to flee.

--What was the “key” turn?
Turn 2, the rock hit the griff for the second time, taking the last wounds, and the arachnoid and gigantic spider cav pinned the battlefield, effectively isolating the halberdiers for the rest of the battle.

--What was the central reason the Gobbos came away with the victory? 
The empire made non-optimal use of the units: Cavalry was played as main fighting units in the centre; outriders as light flanking cavalry/road blockers and the griffon played as a captasus staying un-engaged when it should have been deployed for a head charge on turn 1.

--Finally, what was the main thing you learned?
That stalling the movement of the enemy in a confined space can be extremely important. The rules of movement quite limits your options if you have concentrated your units.


Ultimately, huge thanks to HHG for running this once more! 
It was great fun, and quite educative. Although I must say that I like the format of the former TDG better. Having to make calls for all decisions is a little too much. I like it better for the team to do a general plan and have a team leader or the moderator of the game carry out the plan adjusted to events (as HHG have done so brilliantly before). I look very much forward to the next TDG and I'm sure Noght will do a great job hosting that. 

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I started 3 working threads for the purpose of creating an O&G Tactica:

--8th Edition O&G Tactica Working Thread on O&G Units

--8th Edition O&G Tactica Working Thread on Popular O&G Strategy/Tactics versus Empire

--8th Edition O&G Tactica Working Thread on Empire Strategy/Tactics versus O&G


I think with these three broad categories we can collect what we need to know in order to start a master Tactica on O&G.   Please take some time to provide input based on your experience.  Let me know if you think I am missing something with those 3 working threads so I can add another one, if need be.

I am hoping that with our combined effort, we can create an 8th Edition tactica that will set the benchmark for excellent, comprehensive, useful guides on how to beat enemies of the mighty Empire.

 
HHG