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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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TEG2: Griffon After Action
« on: May 19, 2013, 05:25:51 PM »
TEG2:  The Griffon Tactics-
Why I did what I did when I did it


Deployment

In TEG 1, I saw Rothgar show tactical patience using an army where he had the ranged advantage.  TEG2 is no different-  I have decent short-ranged firepower but he is sporting a total of 8 Warmachines.  I need to get to his Warmachines to collect up the points, but with his Manglers, Fanatics, and hard-hitting combat blocks I have to walk a fine line between maintaining tactical patience to clear out the threats while putting myself into position to clean up points in the end game.

I fully expected him to castle up in a corner, especially with the Meeting Engagement as a scenario.  This scenario gave him a deep deployment zone, that, combined with the terrain, put me at a disadvantage before the first combat rolls were even made.  So it surprised me when he deployed up on the line to put pressure on me from the beginning.  He was going for the throat from the start-  get in my face, reign down destruction on me and not give me a chance to breath.

It helped me that he had 3 of his Warmachines in reserve.  Since he was most likely going to get the first turn it gave me a little more breathing room.




My Greatswords and ICK rolled up as reserves.  This could either be good or bad-  good in that it would allow me to react to his first turn to place those forces in the right spot;  bad if he forced me to roll a bunch of leadership tests and I was missing my Gen and BSB.
 
Looking at his deployment, I needed to find a way to put pressure on the edges.  My Knights would have a hard time surviving in the center with Manglers and Fanatics, so I put them on the flanks to go on Warmachine hunting duty. 

I had been thinking about a tactic of using a STank in conjunction with Outriders before the battle so I thought maybe this was a chance to try it out.  Opponents of mine love to block the STank by putting chaff along side it…nothing like a bunch of bullets to keep that from happening!

So I put the STank in the center of my lines with the Outriders on each side and my Wizard bunker behind it.  The hardest part was staying back as far as I could, yet not getting too close to the board edge in case units panicked.  I wanted the STank center stage to force him to deal with it.  O&G have so many ways to mess with a STank-  Manglers, Fanatics, Doom Divers, direct hits from Rock Lobbas…nevermind Savage Orcs with Choppas.  I knew there was no way the STank was going to live through the whole battle; I just hoped that I would get some use of out it before it died.

I put my Archers and detachments on the right of my line because I wanted to bring in my Greatswords somewhat offset from his line of advance.  It would be suicide to go one versus one, front-to-front against the Savage Orcs.  I needed to win the diverter battle so I could use his Frenzy and Animosity against him, maybe tie him up with the tank, and hopefully get a flank or get him from several sides.

Kinda funny that this battle was to showcase the Griffon Formation and I started without the major component of it-  but like I have said in other posts, even if the situation/scenario doesn’t allow you to create the standard Griffon you can still get the units to work together even if it doesn’t look pretty.





I was surprised when he decided to Vanguard the Goblin Big Bosses.  I was kind of worried about him getting charges off on both Archer Dets-  most likely killing them and overrunning into the Archer parent.  That one move could have wiped out all my Archers.  Since he couldn’t charge if he got the first turn with a Vanguard, that threat was gone, but now I had to worry about all kinds of chaff in my way.


Wild Boyz Turn 1





His first move was very aggressive and well-played.  He moved the Big Bosses to prevent my Archers from easily sacrificing themselves to kill a Mangler.

I was surprised when he turned to have his Blorcs face my Knights.  Of course he didn’t want my Knights having free reign on the flank, but having the General in the right spot for O&G is critical.  If I could somehow keep his Blorcs distracted for a turn or two, I was going to take it.

I was hoping he would shoot my STank on Turn 1, but he played the smart move and targeted the Outriders which had the best chance of shooting his Manglers and GBB.  Luckily for me Goblin targeting is not high on their priority list when they train (do O&G even bother to train?) so I lost a few Outriders but I could still use them on my first turn. 


Winter Forge Turn 1





I debated whether to just leave the west Knights in place and make the Blorcs come to me if they wanted or to make a long distance charge on the Chukka needing 9s.  I was willing to sacrifice the Knights just to delay the Blorcs so I figured I might as well try and snag some points in the process.  They made the charge, so after wiping it out I could just overrun off the board.

When he killed a few of my Outriders, it opened up an easy way for me to get rid of one of his Big Bosses-  the STank.  This move also proved key in the combat phase-  because not only did it kill GBB1, but it forced GBB2 to panic and die to a DT test.  I also liked the move because it kept the STank closer to where I was going to form up an ugly shaped Griffon.  I have learned that it is critical to keep the STank near the Griffon.  If I don’t, opponent’s can isolate one or the other and they can’t support each other.

I pinched in GBB2 with Archers in the front and the rear so if I didn’t kill him this turn he only had two choices on his turn-  move straight backwards because he couldn’t pivot or charge the Arch det.  When the Greatswords and Halb det entered the scene, I put the Halbs in a position to charge GBB2 and tie him up if he went after the Archers.  I put the GS in a bus formation for several reasons:  one, it got my Gen and BSB deep on the board to get their leadership bubble out forward; two, shots from all the Chukkas in the east would not have a 10-model row to chuck at; three, if the GS ever engaged the Savage Orcs face-to-face the less models in contact on the first turn the better-  +1 Str on Frenzied Savage Orc Big Boyz is no joke…

I needed to send everything I could spare against his Warmachine nest, so my ICK entered in the far east to prepare for a charge against the first line of Chukkas.

It took everything I had in the magic & shooting phase, but I successfully cleared out both Manglers and GBB.  After the shaky start, I couldn’t have asked for anything more out of my first turn.


Wild Boyz Turn 2




His Savage Orcs charged my Archers.  I decided to Flee with them because I didn’t like his overrun into my Outriders.  That left the flank open of my other Outriders which he redirected the charge to.  No way I could let him get that charge off either, so my Outriders ran off the board.

I thought it was hilarious that his Frenzied Night Gobbos charged my hunk of steel…but it would suck for me if they didn’t flee on my turn because now my STank would be tied up.  It prevented him targeting the STank with arty, but that just meant that the rest of my forces were going to feel the brunt of the indirect pain…!

I really lucked out in his T2 shooting phase.  I lost a few Halbs when the Lobbas scattered, but the GS block is still intact.


Winter Forge Turn 2





My Knights finally get into the action and hit the first line of Chukkas.

The priority here was to clear out the Fanatics- which my Archer Dets happily accomplished by sacrificing themselves for Ulric. 

I slide my GS up but wanted to try and stay at an angle to the Savages and keep the STank in between the two blocks.

I moved units again with my Wizards and WH to the Halbs to get them closer to the GS.  Eventually I hoped to get them out of the forward firing arc of the Savage Orc Shaman to avoid his damn direct damage nukes.

Like I mentioned in the Battle Thread, I made a couple of mistakes this turn.  First, I should have overrun with my Knights after they broke the Chukkas.  As Zif pointed out to me, the new BRB FAQ allows overruns after Warmachines are destroyed due to Break tests.  My ICK could have moved forward into charge range and hit a Doom Diver or Rock Lobba next turn.  Even for a diehard Warhammer nut like me, it is difficult to keep track of all the rule changes and new armybooks.  Sigh.

Also-  I tossed 6 dice on Shield of Faith hoping for some more protection to the GS.  I totally brainfarted and forgot that it only counts in close combat and would do nothing for me against shooting and magic.  Man-  I wish it was true Ward save!

The STank totally sucked on this turn.  It couldn’t even shake off some pesky Night Gobbos!
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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: TEG2: Griffon After Action
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 05:27:04 PM »
Wild Boyz Turn 3





His shooting finally did some serious damage.  One Knight unit was wiped out and he got two direct hits on the GS.  My failure to overrun was even more damaging now that I only had 1 Knight unit to hit the Warmachine nest!


Winter Forge Turn 3





The GS charge into the NG was a no-brainer-  I needed to get the points or make them run in to the way of the Savages.

I had plenty of diverters on that side to continue to flee from his Savages if he decided to charge them.

The ICK moved in under the 12 inch range of the Warmachine nest to avoid being targeted.

After the Night Gobbos were destroyed, I reformed my GS into a horde formation.  If the Savages charged the STank, or were forced to because of failed Animosity or Frenzy, I would be in a position to charge them in the flank and try to do max damage on the first turn of combat-  when I had both Hatred  on my side.  A horde formation would also allow me to keep my Gen and BSB on the edge of the horde to avoid being targeted by the crazed Savages.


Wild Boyz Turn 4





Finally the Savage Orcs failed an Animosity roll or Frenzy roll.  I knew if I delayed long enough, sooner or later they would be forced to charge on their own.  By keeping my GS consistently to the side of the Savages I set up the bloodbath as best I could to my advantage.  Even if he somehow managed to wipe out my STank in one turn, they would be forced to overrun and stop at my Archers and I would get the flank or rear of the Savage horde.  The GS charge would be on my turn and hopefully I could get some buffs off too.

I knew he was going to get one of his spells off on his turn-  either Hand of Gork or Ere We Go.  I didn’t want the Black Orcs getting into the action too quickly so I stopped Hand of Gork and let Ere We Go be cast.  Giving the Savages hit rerolls was going to hurt, but I couldn’t afford his other block breathing down my neck on T5!

I survived his shooting without too much pain.  My GS horde had taken some damage…but it still had plenty left to put out some hurt.

I knew the STank was going to take some wounds, but losing 5 wounds in one round sucked!  Choppas are so nasty!  But at least he got the +1 Str on the STank and not on my GS…


Winter Forge Turn 4





Finally!  I got a unit into that damn Warmachine nest and could hit the lone Chukka on the hill.  Keeping those Knights moving and on the board was a major feat-  they were constantly under fire, made DT tests, and had to make more Panic tests than I care to remember.  Praise Ulric for our decent leadership on the Knights!

I moved both sets of Archers up in the gap to get in the way of the Blorcs and do a double-flee if he charged them.  Good thing too-  because they were in the way he couldn’t complete a long distance charge against the ass of the STank.

I moved the Halb det back 2 inches to get out of his Savage Orc Shaman’s line of sight.  I didn’t want him to snipe my Lvl4 Wizard with Direct Damage spells!

I got a decent magic phase and got off Speed of Light and Shield of Faith on the GS.  The WS10 was key-  while I had Hatred I wanted to pour every attack necessary at his WS10 Savage Orc Shaman to knock the 5+ Ward back down to a 6+ and take out his magic phase.  He challenged with the Shaman so I declined and he sent my BSB to the back.  Not all plans come to fruition- even with the buffs, I only managed to get 2 unsaved wounds on the crazy bastard.   Hopefully I could knock him off next turn.

As you saw, that first round of combat was all about defense.  On 9 wounds, my GS made 7 AS/WS on 5+ and his Savages made 6 out of 8 5+ Wards.  Insane.  All this combat power and the edge goes to the mighty D.  The good news for me-  the Savage Orcs lost Frenzy and my STank lived with 1 wound.

As I mentioned in the Battle Thread, I didn’t combat reform to get more GS into combat because I wanted to keep my Gen hanging off the south of the formation to not be targeted and keep his leadership bubble in the south, and I didn’t want to expose my formation on the north side. 

His Blorcs were trying to close in-  if I exposed my horde in the north he could have potentially moved the Blorcs that way, got off a Hand of Gork, and put the formation in my flank.  On his next turn, this would have meant the Blorcs could charge, have Hatred, Frenzy, and a chip on their shoulders.  I think my GS would not have survived the game in that scenario.  Because I didn’t expose the north side, he went south with the Blorcs hoping my STank would die and he could make it in.


Wild Boyz Turn 5




My dispel priorities were exactly opposite this phase from last.  Because I had Speed of Light still for this combat round, I needed to make sure he didn’t get To-Hit rerolls.  Savages needing 5 and 6s to hit is MUCH better than 4s.  That meant I finally had to let Hand of Gork go-  which meant that I delayed dealing with those nasties until Turn 6.  It was the best I could do.

It took everything I had to finally get 1 more unsaved wound on the Shaman but I finally got him.  Some of you may have never targeted the Shaman and focused all attacks on the unit-  to go for the failed Break test.  The reason I wanted the Shaman dead is that there was no guarantee that I would catch the Savages if they broke-  if they bounced far enough away he could have possibly rallied, got the Blorcs in the way and kept all those victory points away from me.  Also-  once free from combat and facing the right way, that Savage Orc Shaman could start blasting me again with Direct Damage spells.  That Shaman had to die-  and if my rolls were average in that first round of combat, he would have been dead.  This is one reason I love GS-  because of Stubborn you sometimes have the luxury of targeting characters while your RnF get whacked on, because you are not worried about CR.

Speed of Light with To-Hit rerolls paid off-  his Savage RnF failed to kill even 1 GS.  He made a Break test on 5, so now my next magic phase was going to be crucial again.


Winter Forge Turn 5





My Knights were soaking up the extra points on the board nicely. 

Several people on the Battle Thread asked why I didn’t reform the GS to get more into combat and provide less of a front for the Blorcs.  One, which I already stated, was that I wanted my AL in range of the Archers for their rally.  If things somehow really went bad for me and I lost the GS, I was going to need all the points on the board I could to maybe pull out a draw. 

Two, I was banking on winning the combat again for the third time.  If the Savages broke from combat and outdistanced me, I wanted max frontage in the south to hopefully hit the Blorcs on the pursue.  By not reforming and getting all front models into base contact, I had the freedom at the start of the combat phase to “make way” with my General where I wanted to.  If my magic phase sucked, he would stay where he was at, if my magic phase was good and I got some good buffs off, he would move up.  Moving him up would with good buffs would also serve another purpose-  when I pursued after winning combat, he would not be on the southern end and would not end up in base contact with the Blorcs if I hit them.  I didn’t want my General anywhere near his General. 

I couldn’t had asked for a better time to get a monster magic phase-  12PD to 6DD and he had no Wizards left so no magic defense.  Even if I didn’t get a good Winds of Magic roll I was going to pop my Forbidden Rod on the Lvl1 mage to boost my dice-  this magic phase was key.

I really wanted to make every dice count so I tossed the Prayers early that had no chance of miscast so then I could start tossing more dice on the Light buffs.  Of course, the first time I cast dice with the possibility of a miscast I get it on 3 dice!  Well, at least the GS are fully buffed and ready to roll!  It is amazing how well Speed of Light does against WS4 troops.  GS that have Speed of Light, Hammers of Sigmar, and Shield of Faith on them are downright nasty!  The Savage Orcs didn’t stand a chance-  and they finally broke.

 
After Action Comments

This was a tight battle.  The VP totals at the end weren’t close, but the game was neck to neck until the very end.  Rothgar is an excellent General and it was my honor to throw down against him.

--I loved my Outriders.  They helped killed a Mangler up front and knocked some models off his big blocks.  I could have used them at any time to fly up and divert but the combat worked out to where I didn’t need to.  I plan to keep using them.  The key is the first turn placement-  you don’t have to move them forward just to get shots off in the first turn, where you really want them is in a position to not have to move as long as possible to lay down fire in a zone you want covered as long as possible.  Outrider 1 was my favorite unit this battle-  chilling behind the wall, never moving, and throwing down lead!

--This game proved to me yet one more time that the STank needs to stay near the Griffon.  Every time I get them separated for some reason, something bad happens to one or the other.  The died honorably and gave my Griffon time to do its work.

--I couldn’t form a classic Griffon formation obviously, but the Archers served their purposes well by diverting and sacrificing themselves on Fanatics.  I like having lots of mobile Knight units in my list with the Griffon.  Having a big nasty troop block is nice, but you have to have mobility, speed, diverters, shooting and magic nukes to complement and support it.  Take a few of those away and your opponent can start dictating to you the flow of the battle.

--O&G can throw lots of nasty stuff at you but Animosity and Frenzy can really mess up your day.  I figured if I could dangle units in front of the Savages long enough they would eventually fail a roll and have to do something Rothgar didn’t want them to.  As we all know, going head to head with a Savage Orc block stacked like that one is not going to end pretty.  The damn STank lost half his wounds in one round!

--I hoped that all of you enjoyed that battle as much as I did.  I learn new things every time I do one of these.  Nothing like having a whole forum keep tabs on events to make sure everything is right.

Encourage comments/suggestions, etc-  especially from you Rothgar!

 :::cheers:::
HHG
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Offline SevenSins

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Re: TEG2: Griffon After Action
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 10:01:32 PM »
Finally had thetime to read this, always nice to know the reason behind the actions  :smile2:

Those small knight units and archers are golden, that's for sure.

Offline Gankom

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Re: TEG2: Griffon After Action
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 02:07:00 PM »
Bit late to the party but I've been busy for the past while. It was really interesting watching some of the things in this game. The outriders were amazing at times, I've never used them like that.

The reserve roll can always really mess with people so it was good to see you manage to minimize the damage on that.

Offline rothgar13

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Re: TEG2: Griffon After Action
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 03:22:15 PM »
I'm also a bit late, but I'll put a couple of comments in there, though they may be rehashes of what I said before:

1. Everything O&G is a gamble, and I lost more gambles than I won this game. I fluffed a couple of critical Animosity and Frenzy tests, and my artillery and magic mostly failed to make an impact until it was a bit too late (especially the latter - holy whiff-fest, Batman!). Sadly, the only thing I can do on that front is roll better.

2. The Black Orcs were decidedly uninspiring. Although I'll acknowledge that part of this was positioning, the fact remains that they were too slow to get anywhere, and they're not as potent as Savages so that you have to run away from them. I'm thinking these guys will be replaced by Trolls in the next game I play with the list, and I'll have my General on a Wyvern for the 18" Ld and the presence of a mobile help element.

Offline sammay23

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Re: TEG2: Griffon After Action
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 05:39:05 PM »
Trolls are lovely with an 18" LD bubble.
Bring out the mop and broom sammay.  I want to see you clean this house.