Topic: TEG5: Empire Tactical Thread

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Tactical Exposition Game 5:  Empire Tactical Thread

This thread is for the EMPIRE TEAM ONLY for TEG5.   

--If you are in the High Elf team, or plan to join it, leave now.
--If you want to join the Empire Team, just post your intent in here.
--If you are visiting or plan to look at both team's threads to watch from the sidelines, then please refrain from posting comments in TEG5 till the battle is over.

Current Empire Team Members:

--Noght (General)
--George (General)
--Playonwords (Lt)
--Zif
--Grifter
--Sevensins
--Graydeath
--Mortim
--TCWarrom
--Dapper
--MrO
--Perforated
--LSP

--------------------------------------------------------

Team Empire-

First things first-  we need to decide on a list.

The opponent is High Elves but whatever we come up with needs to be an all-comers list.

The easy route is to use list types we have tried before such as the Griffon or Sammay's All-Cav, but I am particularly interested in new build ideas/strategies.  So post them!

One option is a list I recently tested-- an All-Cav list like Sammay's but I ran two Beast Mages.  Wildform is insane on Demis, and the Captasus love Savage Horrors....!

I am going to be on vacation for two weeks-  so we have a little bit of time to toss some ideas around.  We will start the TEG on August 16th.  Let's hear what you think! 

 
HHG

[grifter]

I'll join team empire if that`s all right. hope to have a bit more time on my hands to actually postsomething this time around.

i had a fun list a while ago with 4x10 archers with a witchhunter in them each. that could be fun against the pointy ears, no?

[SevenSins]

I'd like something in the all-comers category, and preferably a varied list (not all this or that)

[zifnab0]

How about a fun shooting list?

Level 4 (Life)
Arch Lector

Engineer x2
Captain, BSB
Level 2 (Fire), scroll

20 Crossbows
20 Crossbows
10 Archers
10 Archers
15 Archers

3 Cannons
10 Outriders
10 Outriders
5 Pistoliers + Musician

2 HBVG

We'd lose the combat phase, but as long as we deploy back and screen with the archers and pistoliers we might be able to do enough damage before they get to us.

[Noght]

I agree that they should be shot up but that feels extreme!   
Can't we beat them with a standard All-Comer's list?

[zifnab0]

I agree that they should be shot up but that feels extreme!   

I took out the mortars so I had room for the wizards.

Yes, we could use an all-comers and it would probably be a lot more fun.

[SevenSins]

How about at least one of each unit (detachments count) and then fill in with characters, warmachines and magic altars to taste?

[Holy Hand Grenade]

We can try out whatever you want, but I want the TEGs (as opposed to some of the things we have tried in the TDGs) to stay at the competitive/tournament level. 

Also realize that Fandir, Rothgar, and Sammay are all on that side.

Empire needs to bring its A-game to face off against them.   

[Noght]

Empire needs to bring its A-game to face off against them.   

Agreed, make a list to handle a Dark Elf list.  Replace Hydras with Frosthearts....

[gray_death01]

Would like to join the team if there are spots available.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Would like to join the team if there are spots available.

The more the merrier.  I updated the original post to include everyone's name that has posted in here so far!

[TCWarroom]

This is all comers based.

Battle Wizard Lord: Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Life.

Captain of the Empire: Ogre Blade; Charmed Shield; Luckstone; Warhorse (barding); full plate armour; Battle Standard.

Battle Wizard: Dispel Scroll; Lore of Beasts.

12 Inner Circle Knights: Inner Circle Preceptor; musician; standard bearer; Standard of Discipline.

28 Halberdiers: musician; standard bearer.
• 5 Archers
• 5 Archers

4 Demigryph Knights: standard bearer.

4 Demigryph Knights: standard bearer.

4 Demigryph Knights: standard bearer.

Great Cannon

Steam Tank

Steam Tank

2,396 points

[grifter]

Here´s a somewhat unusual list, in case people want to try something different from "STank, Demis, filler".

GotE, Full Plate, White Cloak, Enchanted Shield, Relic Sword, OTS, Imperial Griffon

Shadow Wizard lvl 4, Talisman of 4++, Dispel Scroll

Captasus 1, FP, Shield, Dragonhelm, Shrieking Blade, Pegasus

Captasus 2, FP, Charmed Shield, Sword of Might, Pegasus

2x Master Engineer

4x Witchhunter, Brace

4x 10 Archers

20 Swordsmen, Standard

26 Swordsmen, Standard

5 Archers (detachment)

3x Great Cannon

2x HBVG

The list offers no "big points" except for the GotE, but rather chaff without end to feed to any deathstars. Meanwhile, the cannons pick off monsters, the Witchhunters pick off characters, the GotE and Captasi go for chaff and artillery and the HBVG´s shoot up smaller units. For magic I picked Shadows for more stalling and debuffing.
Against the HE I expect to see Frosthearts if they´re going comeptitive; the GotE has a chance of finishing one off that´s been shot by a cannon. The Archers should overperform against the pointy-ears, while the WH´s will love to hunt for those juicy mages. HBVG´s love pointy-ears as well, oc.

We can be slightly more sane and go for 2x3 Demis instead of the GotE if you want, they work out to roughly the same points value.

[zifnab0]

More of a standard, tournament list:

Arch Lector on War Altar, heavy armor, 4+ ward, charmed shield

Level 4

BSB with FPA, 5+ ward, enchanted shield

Level 2 with scroll

40 Halberds, full command

2x5 Archer detachments

10 Archers

2x5 Archer detachments

5 Knights, musician

2x3 Demigryphs, Musician

2x Cannons

5 Pistoliers

Steam Tank

Celestial Hurricanum

[George]

I'll join the empire this time....though plan to take a back seat after leading the ogres in the last.

The key questions I see for our list is:
Halbs or knights for the main core unit?
Demis or greatswords for the main special unit?
1 or 2 Stanks?
I think by answering these we will know if we want an agressive or defensive list. From that our choices for chaff, characters and artillery are much easier.
Personally I lean to  Halberd and Greatsword hordes with a single Stank. Something like....

Arch Lector on Foot
Wizard Lord L4
BSB on Foot
Battle Wizard L2
Engineer
Captasus

50 Halberds
  5 Archers
  5 Archers
10 Archers
6 Knights
40 Greatswords standard discipline
Cannon
Stank
Helblaster

[dapper]

Against elves why not take either mortars of pigeoneers? 3 bombs per turn will devastate elven elite infantry or not? Just a (probably completely stupid) thought...

[mrth0msen]

They are probably going to bring a rock solid list with dual frosties, so we need two cannons at least, along with something else to reliably kill them. They can pretty much park one phoenix in each of our hordes and kill the rest of our army, while we try to bring it down.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I have a couple of ideas to throw out to the Empire Team for consideration.

So far no one has come up with any new strategies/lists to test out.  One of the purposes of this TEG is to see the new High Elves in action so it doesn’t bother me if we stick with something tried and true.  To that end, the first list I have below is a slight modification to Rothgar’s Faith, Steel, and Gunpowder from TEG 1 Civil War.  I dropped one STank and the WH to add in two Captasus.

Maybe I am demented, but I would find it rather entertaining to take out a Rothgar-based list against the man himself!

Arch Lector on WAlatr with Horn Gen  (GW, Armour of Destiny, Van Horst)

10 Archers 
     Wizard Lord, Light Lvl4  (Dispel Scroll, Talismen of Pres)

Captasus (Dragonhelm, Luckstone, Potion of Fool)
Captasus (Ench Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Potion of Strength)

5 Demigrpyhs (FC)

2x 5 Vanilla Knights (Musician)

39 Halbediers  (FC)
     Captain  BSB  (Helm of the Skavenslayer, Dawnstone)
     5 Archer det
     5 Archer det

2x Great Cannon

Steam Tank

-------------------------------------------------

My other list idea is based around Beast Magic.   I have tried out various Beast-based lists before and found that 1 Lvl 4 Beast mage just doesn’t cut it.  I recently played a couple of battles using a modified All-Cav Mobile list like Sammay’s with 2 Beast mages and it makes all the difference in the world.   Opponents are so worried about stopping Savage Beasts that I consistently got off a couple of Wildforms.  And Wildforms on Demis will destroy just about anything.  I had one group of 3 Demis take out 2 units of Skullcrushers by themselves….

This list is based around Sammay’s Mobile Cav with lots of Demis and characters on Pegs.  The Lvl4 Beast Mage is even on a Peg-  to fly to the exact spot you need him for the short range spells.  He only has a 4+ Ward save for defense-  but the presence of 5 Demis in the list without a champ also gives the Peg fliers nice 4+ Look out Sir rolls.

Depending on the enemy, the Captasus can all fly separately-  or form their own flying cav unit.

Battle Wizard Lord, Lvl 4 Beasts Gen Peg, Dispel Scroll, Talis of Pres

Battle Wizard Lvl 2 Beasts Steed, Scroll of Shielding

Captasus BSB (Lance, Dragonhelm, Dawnstonel)
Captasus (Ogre Blade, Ench Shield)
Captasus (Lance, Helm of the Skavenslayer, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon)

5 Demigrpyhs (Musician, Std)
2x 3 Demis (Champ, Musician)

2x 6 Knights (Champs, Musician)
2x 6 Knights (FC)

Steam Tank

-----------------------------------------------


Let me know what you think about either of these list ideas.

HHG

[gray_death01]

Lord:
General of the Empire (Full plate, lance, white cloak, enchanted shield, blood roar Griffon)

Hero:
Assassin Captasus (full plate, shield, sword of swift slaying, potion of speed)
BSB Captasus (Full plate, shield, drangonhelm, lance, dawnstone)
Attack Captasus (full plate, shield, sword of strife, pot of foolhardiness
Battle Wizard (lvl 2, horse, dis scroll)  (beast)

Core:
IC Knights x10 +FC
IC Knights X10 +FC
Crossbows X19 +music

Special:
Demi’s x5 +FC(banner of swiftness)
Cannon
Cannon

Rare:
Stank

Ok, bit off the wall list but I think could be quite mobile and have some deadliness to it.
Lord: Fast and mobile scary unit with hopes of either panicing a unit off or chomping on some of the tougher, low strength units, or maybe a wounded phoenix. Should avoid white lions unless charging into the flank

Heros: Assassin Cap- Find mage, kill mage
BSB cap provides support where needed
Attack Cap-kill small units or provide flank charge and decent amount of kills for combat res
Wizard- hopefully can start becoming a factor turn 3 (turn 2 if things go well)

Core: Knights can hopefully pick and choose where they charge or help demi's by getting into a flank
Crossbows-Eagle and reaver hunting plus can protect cannons

Special: Demi's- speed along into something and tear it apart
Cannons- Find frosty, kill frosty (or dragon if they go monster crazy which you can with high elves this book)

Rare: Stank- roadblock any major combat units so knights and demi's can flank

Just my thoughts.

[dapper]

I like those two lists HHG and feel similarly about taking lists agains people that advocate them so much...

Wouldn't it be possible though to make at least slight modifications to see how they work out? Something like: change halbardies into spearmen with shields (elves are T3 anyway ; ), or taking out one of the captasi (2nd list) and change it into scouts? Maybe even skip the steamtank (for 3 pigeon guys yeah ; ). I am certainly not an expert so these suggestions probably weaken the lists to a big extend, but the suggestion would be to find slight modifications that don't weaken too much, but still show slightly different aspects of the empire...

Feel free to ignore if you don't agree though...

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I like those two lists HHG and feel similarly about taking lists agains people that advocate them so much...

Wouldn't it be possible though to make at least slight modifications to see how they work out?

Funny you mention this Dapper-  both lists alread incorporate a few significant changes from what Rothgar and Sammay field.

Rothgar promotes dual cannons and dual STanks.  I lessened the firepower by dropping a STank but increased mobility and deep strikes by adding two Captasus.

Sammay loves Heavens magic and fielding a bunch of mobile units, any of which he is willing to sacrifice.  Beast magic brings with it a whole new set of strategy and tactics-  and the inclusion of a Demi unit of 5 and a potential flying cav unit of 3 Captasus is different.

Feel free to offer up any tweaks you think would make the lists better, however!

I think I will label the list submissions we have and we will vote on them early next week so we are prepared for the TEG's launch.

We have another major hurdle to get over as well-  appointing a General.  We will see how our list shapes up and who is comfortable at giving it a go and willing to take the extra time.

 
HHG

 

[dapper]

I'm sure I'm unable to improve upon your lists HHG. With tweaking I merely meant taking slightly different troops and this surely would not improve the lists, only change them. The think is that when there's core infantry in lists on the forum its always halberdiers. I understand they are best, but they are not that much better than the others right? Why not try spearmen? Instead of the mandatory 10 archers bunker, why not 14 spearmen?

These things are not important though! I like the first list you posted best...

I'm looking forward to the fight!

[Noght]

Some random thoughts:

• I too would rather see Spearmen or even Swordsmen
• If you are High Elf Mage hunting, bring the OTS, on the Assassin
• Don't underestimate the value of Twin Volley-guns vs Medium T Monsters, Cavalry, and High Elf Elites
• Plan a stiff Magic defense, +1 to cast High Magic Spells are a bitch.

Let me think about it a bit...

[George]

I agree spears or swords would be good to see....I lean towards swords, but only as all my spearmen models became halberdiers
Helblaster should definitely be in the list....its the best way to deal with units carrying banner of the world dragon!
Perhaps our list could run an Arch Lector, a Level 4 mage and 2 Level 2 beast mages. This would give us 4 channels and 2 gos  at wildform as well as whatever magic lore we'd like on the L4.

[dapper]

Maybe take HHG's first list and combine the 2 units of 5 knights into one (inner circle) - the captasi may do what the knights were supposed to do in the first place- and take the arch lector from the altar and into the knights? The points from the altar could translate into a HVG with engeneer.

Could even take the steamtank and have a second HVG with engeneer, and a lvl 1 beast?

This would lose the re-rolls for the the DG however...

Oh god... list making is awful... I can never choose