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Author Topic: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread  (Read 36760 times)

Offline Demelain

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2013, 08:03:49 PM »
The Rod was just an idea, it will not be that effective considering we will be playing with open lists. Besides, the 2 dispel scrolls work well with the reservoir allowing us to save a dice in at least 2 turns.

Offline Demelain

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 08:19:22 PM »
New modified list, im having a hard time fitting both warmachine hunters and salamanders in the list after 895 points of magic users, core and the krox and templeguards we only have 225 points to play around with.

We could consider dropping the etheral and magic res from the slann and running him in skink skirmishers and then putting him the templeguards when they hit combat, that will make the guards  ITP, stubborn and allow us to take advantage of earthblood from lore of life, it would also free of 90 points

2500 Pts - Lizardmen Roster

1 Slann Mage-Priest (Battle Standard Bearer), (Cold Blooded; General; Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer)
   1 Channeling Staff
   1 Obsidian Amulet
   1 Standard of Discipline
   1 Higher State of Consciousness
   1 Reservoir of Eldritch Energy
   1 The Harmonic Convergence
   1 Wandering Deliberations

1 Tetto'eko,  (Arcane Vassal; Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Aquatic; LoreMaster (Heavens); Scaly Skin)
   1 Eye of the Old Ones
   1 The Palanquin of Constellations
   1 The Stellar Staff

1 Skink Priest,  (Arcane Vassal; Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Aquatic; Scaly Skin)
   1 Dispel Scroll

1 Skink Priest,  (Arcane Vassal; Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Aquatic; Scaly Skin)
   1 Cube of Darkness

33 Skink Cohort, (Cold Blooded; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Lustrian Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Scaly Skin)
   1 Skink Brave (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Lustrian Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Scaly Skin)
   3 Kroxigor (Always Strikes Last; Cold Blooded; Predatory Figther; Great Weapon; Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin; Stomp)

10 Skink Skirmishers,  (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Lustrian Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)

10 Skink Skirmishers,  (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Lustrian Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)

10 Skink Skirmishers, (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Lustrian Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)

10 Skink Skirmishers, (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Lustrian Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)

6 Kroxigor,  (Always Strikes Last; Cold Blooded; Predatory Figther; Great Weapon; Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin; Stomp)

29 Temple Guard, (Cold Blooded; Guardians; Sacred Duty; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Predatory Figther; Hand Weapon; Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Scaly Skin)
   1 Revered Guardian (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Halberd; Guardians; Predatory Figther; Sacred Duty; Light Armour; Shield; Scaly Skin)

5 Chameleon Skinks,(Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Blowpipe; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Scouts; Skirmishers)

1 Salamander Hunting Pack,  (Cold Blooded; Spout Flame; Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)
   3 Skink Handlers (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)

1 Salamander Hunting Pack,  (Cold Blooded; Spout Flame; Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)
   3 Skink Handlers (Cold Blooded; Hand Weapon; Aquatic; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 08:22:41 PM by Demelain »

Offline Forumite

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2013, 09:44:21 PM »
I donīt know if a lone Etheral Slann is the best option, but I still want to try it out. Hopefully they are not prepared for it. With 2++ against magic not even Banishment will be effective against him.

The Skrox, are we running them 6 wide to keep all the Krox in the second rank?

Offline George

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2013, 10:20:17 PM »
I am happy to join the lizards....I have little to no experience with them....but chaff and infantry is something I'm used to.

Reading through this discussion I feel HHG is fairly confident with his list. Having seen how he uses his chaff and combat blocks I am sure that the multiple chaff units in front of the army will work fine....the list has a bit of a griffon feel to it.

My advice would be to try and get another Krox into the Skrox unit so they don't get killed out right.
Also I feel that 2 Chiefs on Terradons would be a big threat to cannons and other artillery....they are quick enough to get there turn 2. With this magic heavy build and many poison shots we could make the empire come to us if we can take away their ranged firepower.

For this list I can see using Tetto'eko's vangaurds to redploy units rather than advance, from this point of view would skirmishers be better than cohorts?
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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2013, 10:49:35 PM »
I am happy to join the lizards....I have little to no experience with them....but chaff and infantry is something I'm used to.

For this list I can see using Tetto'eko's vangaurds to redploy units rather than advance, from this point of view would skirmishers be better than cohorts?

Awesome to have you in here George.

If we don't go with Sallies, there are multiple Vanguard options depending on how Empire deploys.  We can get the TG some distance or move some cohorts or skirmishers out to do their thing.

--------------------------

I think we one thing we don't have at this point is consensus, we are still all over the map.

I would like everyone to weigh in on:

Core:
--All Skink Skirm
--A couple Cohorts, rest Skirm
--A unit of Skrox, rest Skirm

Magic:
--Light or All the Sig spells

Extra points (about 160):
--Cowboy
--Sallies
--Chief on Terras
--More Krox

If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Scalenex

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2013, 12:10:54 AM »
I vote for Demelain's most recent army list with a very minor revision of plopping the two Salamanders together.  If they are one unit they can be Vanguarded up as one, also it's pretty risky to field single Salamanders without buying an extra snack.  I would prefer WD over Light with so few Saurus.  I'd also think it would be helpful to squeeze a Standard of Discipline in there

Core:
A good sized Skroxigor Cohort to buddy the Temple Guard, the rest as Skirmishers

Magic
Wandering Deliberations (all signature spells)

Extra Points
Salamanders
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 12:14:14 AM by Scalenex »
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Offline George

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2013, 01:44:25 AM »
I have no idea how all this fits as I don't have the book handy but...

Core:
Equal skirmishers to cohorts...the rest skirmishers if more than 4 units. I'm interested to see how the cohorts perform.
Also Skrox unit with 3 Krox

Magic: All the signatures...Another wildform (to make the cohorts work and the Krox harder to kill). Plus searing doom for knights/Stanks and miasma for movement control.

Extra Points:
2 x Terradon chiefs (cannon hunters/targets)
A 7th Krox for the unit (just extra wounds for the unit)
My Armies:
Empire
Ogres

Offline SevenSins

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2013, 05:24:52 AM »
Core
Skrox and skirmish

Magic
All signatures

Specials (prioritized)
1. Salamanders
2. Terrachief
3. Cowboy
Hope we'll be having a final list soon ;) even if these discussions are interesting

Offline Demelain

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2013, 06:55:27 AM »
My vote goes to Skrox and skirmishers for core
Wandering for all the sig spells
Im not to sure about the warmachine hunting things, i do not play so much against warmachines in my small group.
I really like the salamanders for the sheer damage output they are capable of, but since they lost march and fire they are a lot harder to get into position.

Offline Forumite

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2013, 07:30:25 AM »
Core: Skrox + Skirmishers
Slann: Light (and etheral)
Support: 2 Terrachiefs and Salamanders

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2013, 10:24:48 AM »
I will be at a conference today-  but keep these replies coming in.

Interesting I see a push for Skrox.  You started getting me excited about a cloud....and now some of you are sneaking in some Krox!
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Offline Forumite

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2013, 11:32:32 AM »
Iīd like a skink cloud, but we need something to actually fight in this list. The Temple Guard and a small unit of 6 Krox doesnīt feel strong enough.

Offline sammay23

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2013, 12:33:47 PM »
I'd like 2x2 Sallies. They are just plain fantastic against Empire state troops, and will draw and absorb fire, while our skinks kill Roth's artillery.

Ideally, we want to be hammering artillery with poison shots in turn 1, and definitely in turn 2. We let sallies degrade their hordes, and Metal reduce their armored units, all the while disrupting their advance by sacrificing our skink units.

If we do the first 3 turns right, Empire cannon should be degraded and their line of advance should be ragged, meaning that our two hard-hitting units will be enough to mop up. I think we have enough hitting power, as long as we use our cloud to buy time to set up advantageous combats.
Bring out the mop and broom sammay.  I want to see you clean this house.

Offline Siberius

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2013, 02:12:47 PM »
I don't know how involved you have to be to chip in, but having played a couple of battles against lizards lately my votes would be:

All signature spells. It really hurt me, seemed like there was an answer for everything. Burn spells galore, more wyssans, death snipes, metal killing for cav. Really really all good.

Core. I think if you really are facing 4 cannons krox will just die early and leave a bunch of expensive easy to kill skinks... So just go skinky!

Extras. Salamanders, if they get cannoned no big deal, if not, nice templates. Also are chameleons an option? Might give you a chance to get close to the warmachines fast and cause headaches. Even if he deploys to stop you, you have influenced his deployment...
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Offline SevenSins

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2013, 06:54:33 PM »
My vote for skrox was mainly because you seemed so set on taking them, HhG, you're usually sound tactically so I thought we could see how it turned out.  :engel: yeah I'm a fanboy....

Wandering deliberations I think beats light hands down, a great toolbox, and hey we seem to go for several skink priests so channel those missiles!

Offline Forumite

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2013, 09:24:00 PM »
Iīve been thinking. I think Iīd  like to change up the list a bit. I think itīs better to burn them with salamanders than facing them in melee. I want the old list, but with the Slann using the 8 Signature Spells, Skinks going for Heavens (debuff warmachines and kill Captasi, instead of their old job of buffing hordes), 2 Terradonchiefs, as many salamanders as we can get, no Skrox, no Krox. Itīs a mobile army that kills with ranged attacks and fire. Burn those hordes! Blast the Steam Tank! Crush their feeble human magic!

So to follow up on the 3 questions:
-Slann with 8 sig spells (Skinks with Heavens)
-Skirmisher Skinks
-Second Terradonchief and loads of Salamanders (remove Krox-unit to make room for more sallys)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 09:32:10 PM by Forumite »

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2013, 11:53:25 PM »
A couple of things to throw at you:

One of the original reasons I went with Light in the beginning was I was trying to craft two versions of my standard Lizard list-  an 'Ard Boyz type one with Tett and a friendlier/comped one without Tett.  In order to create the functionality I was looking for without Tett, I wanted Light.

After going through the discussions so far we have had on this thread, I see merit in me just getting used to running two different kind of lists depending on the atmosphere.  All the Sig Spells and Tett provides the best flexibility if he is included in the mix.  Plus, for Empire's learning curve on the other team, a more likely occurrence for Empire to face.  They face Light all the time...but with HE and Lizzies, all the Sig Spells are something new.

For all these reasons, we will drop Becalming and pick up Wandering.  Case closed on that one.   :icon_cool:

I thought about switching the Lvl1s to Heavens but I think it is unnecessary since both the Slaan and Tett will have Ice Blizz.  Even on T1, I can't imagine trying to cast that spell more than twice.  Facing the 4 cannons we are likely to face-  why bother?  I would rather toss out nukes to their cannonballs and go titt for tatt.  Plus-  now we have Wildform with the Slaan and 2 backups (with the possibility of Amber Spear, Curse, or Transformation)

-----------------------

Most of the feedback is for Sallies. 

Solid choice I think, especially with the Skink Cloud.  Sorry Sammay-  I can't squeeze in more than two unless we start dropping something else.  We are already going the bare minimum on combat blocks with 2 if we go with the cloud-  if we drop the Krox completely to add more Sallies, I think we have gone gimmicky.
 
I like the idea of putting them in one unit for a single Vanguard move.  I think a critical part of our deployment then will be making sure the Slaan is near the Sallies to start.  That way-  when they Vanguard we keep them within 12" of the Slaan so if we don't get the first turn and lose one to a cannon, the other doesn't tuck tail and flee, screwing up our plans.

-----------------------

I was thinking about the Cloud today in my conference (I know, I should have been paying attention).  Nine or 10 Skink Skirms is even more than I want to deal with and at that point, they will get in our way and we will have Panic issues.  If we create a Skrox unit, and don't put Tett in there, we are using up a lot of points for the Skrox and several babysitting Skirm units (for the Lvl 1s and Tett).  Not much of a cloud then, we will only have a handful of diverters.

So-  what about putting in two units of 24 Cohorts to go with five Skink Skirm?  Hear me out here before you think I am crazy- 

I always learn things in TDGs/TEGs and I was surprised at how well Zif's small block of 25 Spearmen did in TEG1.  The blocks weren't meant to kill anything, just tie up no rank or low rank units for a period of time.  One of Zif's blocks held up some Knights for several turns....  If we are using our Core for board control, I think these blocks add another dimension we don't have with the divert and insta-die Skirms. 

We get several other plusses with this idea:

--Even better than Spearmen, our little Cohort blocks can toss out 12 Poison Javs a pop when in 6x4 formation. 
--I think 10 points for a Champ is also points well spent- to challenge lone Character models to hold it up for longer, and to soak up some of the damage those killy Characters would dish out left unmolested.
--If we don't need ranks in a situation, switching them to 12x2 puts out a ridiculous 24 Poison shots and another 24 Poison shots on a S&S.  What High or Dark Elf wants to have their low AS precious elite face that?   :evil:
--They could be used as a screen behind our Sallies.  If something nasty charges the Sallies we have the option of fleeing and bouncing over the Skink screen (Slaan needs to be within 12 inches of the screen so they hold), allowing the Sallies to rally and toss out more flames later.
--Very pertinent to this battle, these Cohorts will have the ability to tie up small Knights, STanks, and potentially Demis depending on their unit size.

So for 140 points (double a Skink Skirm unit cost), I think we gain a whole lot of options.  Leadership is an issue-  even when they are Steadfast, so how we use them in comparison to the Slaan location will be important.

If the group doesn't want to play around with this, we can drop the two Cohorts and a Skirm and pick up a Skrox unit (3x Krox) and call it a day.

-------------------------------------

It comes out looking like this:

TG, Krox, Cohorts
Solo Slaan
Tett
2x Scroll Caddies

2x 24 Cohorts
5x 10 Skink Skirm

30 TG with Razor Std
6x Kroxigor

2 Sallies


TG, Krox, Skrox
Solo Slaan
Tett
2x Scroll Caddies

Skrox- 24 Skinks, 3 Krox
1x 10 Skink Cohort (Mus)
4x 10 Skink Skirm

30 TG with Razor Std
6x Kroxigor

2 Sallies


Give me your thoughts!
 :::cheers:::
HHG
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 12:58:43 AM by Holy Hand Grenade »
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Scalenex

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2013, 03:22:49 AM »
I vote for the second list (the TG, Krox, Skrox) list.

I thought of a silly question.  It's a Battleline right?  Because if there is a chance of Watch Tower or Blood and Glory I would recommend squeezing in a 20 man cohort with FC to provide an extra banner and a solid but cheap unit to garrison a building.
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Offline Demelain

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2013, 05:43:44 AM »
i think im going to vote for list 1, it is a list i would never ever run my self, so im looking forward to see what a good player can do with it.
I just hope our lack of warmachine hunters are not going to hurt us to bad.

Offline George

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2013, 06:06:50 AM »
List 1 ....you've got me interested in your cohort ideas HHG especially with a wildform or two.
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Offline SevenSins

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2013, 08:53:13 AM »
+1 to list 1 let's give those toughness 2 blocks a go  :icon_lol:

warmachines? we'll probably not face more than 4 of those (counting 1-2 Stanks) what could possibly go wrong? hahaha will be interesting either way

Offline Forumite

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2013, 10:44:48 AM »
List 1. 24-strong cohorts sounds good, and 5 skirmishers is plenty, more probably would mess up our battleline.

I think those Krox will just die to cannons or Greatswords, I want to exchange them for Terradonchiefs and more Salamanders

Offline Siberius

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2013, 12:18:39 PM »
Unfortunately I must agree.

With no target saturation (krox and sallies only) against 4 cannons plus maybe more war machines, I don't see any meaningful krox presence after turn 2. There is nothing else remotely worth shooting at so they will just take the full brunt of that assault.

And then it will just be a case of how much destruction can the Slann cause by himself...  there will be no combat teeth left to pose a threat. Skink fire can whittle units for sure, but not destroy them outright...

But I could be wrong. I hope so, or this could be a painful battle!

Course if you deploy those krox 6 wide I suppose he can only kill one at a time!
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Offline sammay23

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2013, 04:20:49 PM »
Well, you know how I feel about Captasi.

Chamo skinks would really help us out here by removing artillery early.

I agree that the Krox are currently a prime target for artillery. Could we break them up into two smaller units? Would that help? MSU Krox? :)
Bring out the mop and broom sammay.  I want to see you clean this house.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2013, 04:44:18 PM »
Against 4 cannon, I was already planning on running them 6x1.  I am sure Rothgar will help us out by whittling them down so it won't matter we are sacrificing supporting attacks.

T1 the sallies are the target.

T2 the Krox.

By T3, if we haven't jammed the Stanks or gotten the Krox into combat before this-  we are doing something wrong.
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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