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Author Topic: Tips on Flagellants.  (Read 4056 times)

Offline undivided.capital

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Tips on Flagellants.
« on: December 26, 2014, 10:49:09 PM »
Hey guys, I got a box of Flaggies for Christmas. Very excited to use them as they will be so fitting for my army fluff and also fluff for so many games! So fitting for end times.

This being said I can't write too many good stories of my army being crushed over and over.

I am looking for any tips you guys might have to help me out! I know these are difficult units to use well so all tips are extremely helpful.

Some questions I have,

1. Should they be used as a main component or a support component?
2. What other units would they work well with? Wizard Wagons?
3. What type of match-ups should I be looking for on the battlefield? Chaff or heavier blocks? Hoards or elites?

Thanks to anyone who pipes up!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 11:00:45 PM by undivided.capital »
Thanks,

Sam Taylor

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 10:54:40 PM »
3. What type of mathc

It should be point 4 in any type of math.  :engel:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline undivided.capital

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 11:00:23 PM »
3. What type of mathc

It should be point 4 in any type of math.  :engel:

Sorry, dont know what happened there! It shall be fixed.  :blush:
Thanks,

Sam Taylor

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 11:03:01 PM »
Too much egg-nogg, I suppose. :icon_wink:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline undivided.capital

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2014, 11:26:57 PM »
I have been accused of having liberal ratios while mixing egg nog. Nothing wrong with that  :closed-eyes:
Thanks,

Sam Taylor

Offline TastyBagel

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 03:26:50 AM »
They are a very odd unit...

The first game I played, I was in a rush, erroneously misread the page, and removed D6 models as casualties when I got them into combat, instead of taking D6 S3 hits. So their first foray wasn't great. So, my first advice is to read the rules. :icon_redface: They aren't a popular unit, so your opponent might not have a clue what they do.


They are very expensive, so most players tend to field them in a display case, looking menacingly on the world on the other side of the glass. Additionally they are T3, have no saves, and have a terrible tendency towards self-harm to boot.

Despite all of this, they do have some things going for them that few/no other empire units bring to the table: namely Frenzy, Flails (consistent high strength attacks whether they charge or are charged, unlike our lances), and being Unbreakable.

Given all of the above, how does one run them? You'll want enough models to be able to survive 1) martyrdom and 2) some enemy attacks. So what do you do?

You could go bigger, like Hoodling here:
http://hoodlinghole.blogspot.com/2014/02/cancon-2104-aftermath-part-1.html
His Flagellants show up occasionally, and are usually larger units. They tend to do pretty good, honestly. They have enough bodies to take some wounds, and being Unbreakable, it gives you some time to either run away to sacrifice them to preserve points elsewhere, or bail them out with supporting charges and the like. With these numbers, they can even win combats.

Alternatively, you could so smaller. I have only one box of them myself (though I built some unit filler on a square 40mm base to stretch that a bit... they die so fast no one minds the filler). Ten strong never seemed enough to me; they just die too easily. I've found running them 12-14 strong is better: wider frontage for more frenzied attacks, and importantly a few more bodies to sustain wounds... though admittedly this is not usually enough to survive the game.

As to your questions:
1) Support. Unless you have a good number of them (like Hoodling), they just don't have the bodies/saves needed to work as a main block usually. I want mine either on a flank holding something nasty up for a turn by being unbreakable; tying something up in order to give me a flank charge on it; or themselves charging into a flank.
2) Yeah, our buff wagons (Hurricanum, War Altar, Luminark.. probably in that order of effectiveness) all help out. Anything that would help our normal infantry will help them. Something like Lore of Light works great with them.
3) Being 10-14 strong... I don't expect them to survive. Plus I'm usually sacrificing them on purpose as a speed bump.. so I don't stress too much about the match up usually. Toss them at something you don't want to deal with right away. They are great against anything with low Initiative, as they get all their Flail damage out before the enemy strikes back, which can have a devastating effect on the attacks they take in return. I like tossing mine against Ogres and core Undead infantry. Non-skink lizardmen can be fun.

You probably want to avoid tossing them at chaff. Each combat they get into will likely cost them a few guys to martyrdom. Aim them at larger things.

Honestly, first and foremost, I use them as stumbling blocks and don't concern myself much with a match-up. I point them at something I wouldn't want to fight at full strength, and let them wear it down a bit while the rest of my list does other things.

They're really not a popular unit, but can be fun if you've got some points to spare on a fluffy choice.

Best of luck to you!

Offline undivided.capital

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 04:08:28 AM »
Hi Tasty, thanks so much for the detailed response. It will be great help moving forward with these guys. I think I will be building a unit filler for these guys.

Also thanks so much for that link. It wasa great read.
Thanks,

Sam Taylor

Offline Lateksimajava

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 09:57:33 AM »
One huge unit of flaggies sounds like the right thing to do if you want to take those crazy guys. As said earlier I think the best thing in flagellants is that they are rarely seen in games. The enemy moat likely has no experience in dealing with them and will put too much or too little force against them.

I was considering taking two smaller units of them. Lets say 20 or so. They could do some damage in cc for one round and then hold the enemy for another round. What experience do you have in having flaggies in smaller units? Just think of them holding three units together with the steam tank while you can focus on the units you want with the rest of your army. I would say the only problem is that with the price of the flaggelants the rest of your army is going to be rather small..

I still like the unit (based on the experience from 6th ed. Oh Lord why they don't have T4 anymore?!) and I'll be building them soon. So all the discussion about them is welcome!

Offline Sceleris

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 11:18:47 PM »
I still cant find a justifiable reason for them - if priest or arch lector could join them then definitely take a unit.

Shame really - cool kit

Offline TastyBagel

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 02:35:33 AM »
Since this is still on the first page, I don't feel too bad necro'ing the thread a bit.

My playgroup at the FLGS is kicking off an End Times Campaign next week, battling between Order and Chaos for control of regions of the Old World, with stuff from the End Times sprinkled in to spice things up as the campaign goes on (planned to last 8 weeks currently). So, until Ostermark ceases to be, I'll be running my "Ostermark Irregulars" weekly, defending the Old World. In the spirit of it all, I've giggled around my usual MSU list around and incorporated two units of 14 Flagellants w/ Prophets. I'll post how I try to use them, and how the end up performing.


Offline Lateksimajava

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 10:06:54 AM »
Taking small units of flagellants sounds good... Until you realize you can buy helblaster with engineer with almost the same price than 14 flaggies+prophet.

I like flagellants and I think you can actually do some good with them. But I can't help thinking all the other stuff you can get with the same cost.

Looking forward to hear more experiences of using flagellants in big or small units. No matter how bad they look on paper they still have a place in my heart. And maybe someday in my army list.

Offline Jomppexx

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2015, 06:44:35 AM »
What would the point in a small unit be?
A few will die due to martyrdom (or whatever the special rule is) and then enemies will slaughter our I3 naked guys before they get to swing.
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Offline TastyBagel

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Re: Tips on Flagellants.
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 12:44:15 PM »
What would the point in a small unit be?
A few will die due to martyrdom (or whatever the special rule is) and then enemies will slaughter our I3 naked guys before they get to swing.

Were I to run a larger unit, I'd eventually be paying tons of ppm for a S3 T3 Unbreakable tar pit. The point in my running smaller units was to see how small they could be and still contribute something to the list. More on that later..

Our local campaign is going well, but we've been short on Chaos players, so I've only gotten a few games in, as I've generally had to play my Warriors of Chaos for the sake of campaign match-ups. I did get in a game with Empire recently, running a single unit of 21 w/ Prophet (7 wide) instead of two units of 14, in order to fit in a few more support elements to my list.

Lessons learned since my last posts:

If you want to deal damage with Flagellants (as opposed to just taking advantage of them being unbreakable), the matchup becomes important. This was touched on a few times in the posts above. Against low Initiative enemy units, the Flagellants will get some attacks in before they disappear. Against higher Initiative enemy units (or approaching wizards/archers).... they might just disappear. flagellants are Unbreakable, but not durable!

If you walk into a bad matchup, magical support (buffs, hexes... buff wagons) becoms very important. Wyssan's Wildform, and most of the spells from Lore of Light help them hit harder/faster, or a boosted Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma can bring an opponent down to your level. Like all our infantry, a little magical support goes a long way to improving their performance.


Flagellants have a set of abilities that are unique in our army. After messing around with them for a while though... the smaller units just haven't performed well for me over time. They are not durable, and cost a crazy amount of points per model, weakening their effectiveness as chaff (or anti-chaff, since martyrdom kicks in whether you want it or not). So the more I use them, the more I think larger units (20+) are how they are best run. Whether they end up being a main combat block (front and center) or a support block (flank/speedbump) in a given list depends on the rest of that list.