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Author Topic: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?  (Read 26286 times)

Offline Midaski

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #100 on: January 15, 2017, 01:38:04 PM »
Basically everyone has their own opinions about what was or is good or bad.

There were good things about 6th and 7th and 8th in my opinion - I was sort of hoping 9th would eventually settle down to the best of all of them.



Certainly, all tournaments there are here use 9th Age rules, but they have less participation and they are few in number in comparison of the previous year. Basically, seems that the only ones who plays 9th Age are competitive players, the only ones who can follow the continuos changes on the rulebook. This means new players don't want to enter on this system because the will be compelled to play as them.

I think maybe you are being a bit too critical here and impatient.

Firstly ever since the start of 6th Edition it seemed the rules were always changing NOT ONLY with edition releases, but with every new Army book.  :engel:

Secondly I am quite happy for competitive players to 'test' the rules - if they find the 'broken' combinations as they used to do with GW then it gives the writers the opportunity to correct them.
As a fun player I don't have to use them, or play against players who do.


How long has it been since AoS appeared and Fantasy was canned?
Maybe it's too soon to see the eventual outcome.
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Offline Rogers Kul

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2017, 02:53:32 PM »
So basically its all broken.

Well, I wouldn't say broken but scattered.
Kings of War and Warma Hordes, games never played two years ago, have now more support.
And then, obviously, there are who keep playing with 8th edition.

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2017, 01:42:11 PM »
I'm not trying to browbeat anyone, and I'm completely respectful of whatever people want to play. In fact if everyone on this forum completely hates 8th edition, is doesn't bother me. I'm merely expressing my annoyance when people praise 6th edition like it was the ultimate Warhammer.

Pretty much this.
I tried to get into warhammer in 6th edition and two rules really put me off.
1) charges being double movement = Just leads to people having units 0.5 inches outside charge range. And yes, I am was a tradsperson and could guess to within 1/4 of an inch like 99% of the time.

2) no steadfast. 40k had the same problem when one tiny rank and file model wipes out full strength elite units. Even before I tried fantasy my gaming group in 40k made a house rule that you had to outnumber your opponent to wipe it out or it had to be below half strength.
Then 8th edition came about with random charges and steadfast and I was sold! I bought right in when the red shirt at GW pointed out these 2 differences from the previous editions.



Also, Kings of War is quite similar to 6th edition in feel. I still don't like the double movement = charge distance because it leads to units standing 0.5inches outside charge range.
And you can't get wiped out until you take a certain number of wounds but it avoids 8th editions grind to the last man problem. So it works.
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Offline jtrowell

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2017, 12:01:35 PM »
At first with Kings of War i was expecting to find the static charge distances to be a problem like you describe and had even started thinking of simply importing the random charge distance from 8th edition ...

... then I got to really try the game in real situation, and I discovered that in practice it was not a problem.
It was less "keep 0.5 inche away" and more "do I charge or do I stand my ground to make him charge me, hoping to survive and charge him in the flank with a second unit ?"

In warhammer the fact that you get to attack both in your turn and your opponent turn introduced a whole house of problems, as well as the fact that sometimes charging an unit with more troups resulted in your target getting more attack backs (I still remember the time when I surroundered a swordmasters unit with tomb guards, skeletons on a flank, and a sphinx on the other flank and was crushed by them)

In KoW you get the same number of attacks , you don't have tricks to maximise the contact or champions or heroes covering the whole unit behind them with their magical armor. This means that being outnumbered is always a bad thing, and prevent death starts or elite expensive units from dominating the game, and  it give a lots of importante to the mouvement phase.
You're right that in some aspects KoW takes from 6th and 7th edition, normal as the core rules where made by Allessio Calvatore, but I positively hate 7th edition (I lost my first and last 7th edition game during deployment, or more correctly during the army selection, having played a tomb king army against a wood elf skirmishing force)
And yet I find KoW to have taken the good ideas being 6th and 7th and made a nice implementation that using the same core rules dating back to the 80s would never have allowed.

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #104 on: January 24, 2017, 12:01:12 AM »
I disagree about the static charge distance making the game more about a trying to get into the flank or stand ground, etc...
It might be what it wants to do. But in practice it just makes movement 10 the best stat in the game.

Why? Because there are very few units that can take a decent charge in KoW. In the Kingdom of Men army there is a pike block unit that has phalanx and ensnare. Phalanx elimitates thunderous charge, ensnare gets your enemy -1 to hit.
This unit basically becomes a crutch.
A high defense is ok but that easily gets mitigated by the plethora of crushing strength and thunderous charge.

So if your unit can't take a charge then there it is just too risky to stand your ground.

I guess you can play the troop spam game. I personally found this un-immersive.


And I totally agree with that Kings of War is better than 6th and 7th. I couldn't get into 6th or 7th but I could get into kings of war.

Its funny that in Kings of War you don't strike back. In 6th and 7th edition you do, but not really.
Only the front rank attacks, and only if they didn't die. ...so you effectively don't hit back. Another reason KoW is better.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2017, 03:40:17 PM »
Maybe back to the topic?

So, 6 months since I last wrote to this thread. Time for update from my region (Helsinki/Finland).

8th ed: enough random players to get a game if you really like. Say, 4. The only change from 6 months past is I heard of these guys. The reason is dissatisfaction with T9A. So this is a conscious choice and includes compromising and home rules, it's not so much a direct continuation of the old.

T9A: somewhere around 30-40 players, at least. The tournament scene is completely T9A. It's slowly growing.

AoS: about 3 players. Here, I know nothing about how it does at the local GW. Completely different scenes, it seems.

KoW: about 5 players (most of who also play T9A). Stagnating.

Oldhammer (3rd ed): about 10 interested, mostly dads who have/paint older metal figures and have time for a couple of games per year. Very slow-motion and feel-good scene. Likely not growing.

So that's about it. The single Fantasy Battles game that is really played is T9A, it seems.

The real games that are played and that are getting new players are X-Wing, 40K, Infinity and FoW, in no particular order. Bloodbowl and historicals are still around and will be for the foreseeable future. There is Gates of Antares and a couple other 'alternatives to the big two', and this includes AoS and KoW, both of which make (rare) appearances at local clubs. I haven't heard of anybody playing the 8th at the local clubs for a year at least.




The August summary went like this:

Looking at the local hobby and tournaments, this is what I'm seeing in Helsinki/Finland:

8th ed: 0 players
T9A: about 20 players (more who use it at home)
AoS: about 2 players (more who play it with their kids)
KoW: about 5 players (all of who also play T9A)
Oldhammer: about 10 interested, but it's more about the figures than gaming, it seems

Overall, Fantasy Battles has gone back a lot since the early 2010's and is a bit split atm. But if T9A continues as strong as for the past year, it will become the new standard. However, it gathers the old blood. I don't know if anyone has started playing the game as their first Fantasy Battles game/edition.

There might be an AoS scene around the local GW shop. Haven't checked it for a year.

Higher up the north, KoW seems to have proportionally more support.

-Z
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Offline Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2017, 01:20:25 PM »
Wow, it seems like every thread, long enough, ends up in a comparison between editions nowadays  :Ohmy: Might as well post my two clipped, debased copper pfennigs here.

For those who've seen my posts since my recent return, this might come as a surprise, but I actually think that in 6e, static CR was too dominant. I never liked it how the core mass ranked infantry was just there to provide static CR while trying to keep the enemy from farming kill CR off them (which meant that everyone and their pet dog used hw+shield, even dark spearelves at times). Only that there was a tipping point after which, if the enemy managed to amass that much killing power, he simply could overcome your static CR no matter what you did, making maneuver lose its significance.

Letting everything be steadfast if it's deeper than the enemy is, on the face of it, a buff for the mass ranked little guys. It gives them a way to obtain staying power that isn't effectively capped 6e style. That game design change means, though, that it must actually be possible to feasibly grind down such blocks in protracted combat, thus the need to increase the lethality of combat across the board. Something that has the additional, in my opinion beneficial, effect of making core infantry vs core infantry about something else than static CR, and things like weapon choices actually matter. Now, if only steadfast had been negatable by flanking...

Something else I didn't like about the 6e design was that if fighting against effectively unbreakable units, such as stubborn bodyguard units, maneuver became largely irrelevant. That lovely CR which you'd get from flanking would effectively count for nothing. 8e and onward, at least flanking enables you to kill more, as the flanking unit would get the benefit of second-rank support attacks, while the victim of the flanking would just get a few extra attacks.

It seems thus to me, from following the debate back and forth, that 8e had generally the right ideas, only they were executed poorly in a way that created new problems, like often happens when making fundamental overhauls. As far as I've gathered, it's the same with magic, in that the winds of magic system created a diminishing returns effect and made magic not be the all-or-nothing it was in earlier editions, but that various army-specific rules make it circumventable to such an extent that magic-heavy armies become even more unstoppable than ever.

So it seems to me like T9A has a fundamentally sound design, one whose issues are more a matter of fine-tuning than anything else.
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Offline Noble Korhedron

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2017, 01:25:37 PM »
@Konrad Von Ricthmark: Do the founders of T9A offer a way to get notified each time a new edition is posted.....?

Offline Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2017, 01:52:00 PM »
I do not know. I just recently emerged from a years-long lurking streak a few days ago  :-P
The only good thing about 7th ed heads is that they look particularly inbred and superstitious which is perfect for Stirlanders

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2017, 06:26:28 PM »
@Konrad Von Ricthmark: Do the founders of T9A offer a way to get notified each time a new edition is posted.....?

I don't know why anybody but competitive ETC players would need to know when the new edition gets posted, on the very day it happens.

Just check their rules page now and then:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/&s=139c710d328d54700e524b215a12a43eb49178d4

There should be no updates before next August. Until then, 1.3.1 stands as is.

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Offline Noble Korhedron

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2017, 06:41:00 PM »
@Konrad Von Ricthmark: Do the founders of T9A offer a way to get notified each time a new edition is posted.....?

I don't know why anybody but competitive ETC players would need to know when the new edition gets posted, on the very day it happens.

Just check their rules page now and then:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/&s=139c710d328d54700e524b215a12a43eb49178d4

There should be no updates before next August. Until then, 1.3.1 stands as is.

-Z
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2017, 10:53:33 PM »
Yes, that could be a problem. It actually was for me over the past year. Twice there was an update that I wasn't aware of.  :icon_lol:

Next time you need to check their rules updates is August-September. Unless they again change their plans...  :roll:

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Offline The Real Rick Salamone

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2017, 05:11:34 PM »
Rochester, NY just had a Warhammer Fantasy meetup on Friday night. 6 guys played on 3 beautiful tables. Every model was painted, beer was consumed. Good times. Warhammer is alive and well over here.


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Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2017, 06:16:34 PM »
Sounds great! Love the mushroom fields 😸
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Offline RE.Lee

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2017, 06:45:24 PM »
Fantastic! That egyptian-themed table is just lovely!
cheers,
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2017, 07:54:30 PM »
Tomb Kings! :icon_eek: :icon_biggrin:
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #116 on: March 01, 2017, 05:11:43 AM »
The mushrooms look great. What is that orange army?
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Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2017, 09:30:27 AM »
Great looking battles and gorgeous minis and tables. Love 'em. :blush:
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #118 on: March 01, 2017, 09:46:34 AM »
The mushrooms look great. What is that orange army?

I would guess our very own wilsonthenarc's Empire of the Sword & Sun.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #119 on: March 02, 2017, 09:10:01 AM »
I dug out the Empire of the Sword & Sun thread, with detailed pictures.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #120 on: March 02, 2017, 10:24:28 AM »
Thank you. I think i had only previously actually seen the first page of that thread. What an inspired effort.
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Offline The Real Rick Salamone

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #121 on: March 03, 2017, 06:34:00 PM »
Yes, @wilsonthenarc found my gaming group through this here forum. He is now part of EEFL and a local gamer in my stable of opponents. That Empire army is awesome in person...and leaves sand everywhere due to its crazy display base/zen garden.
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Offline S.O.F

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Re: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?
« Reply #122 on: March 04, 2017, 03:53:04 AM »
...and leaves sand everywhere due to its crazy display base/zen garden.

So you are suggesting that when his bases don't leave enough sand he dumps a zen garden on you...rather rude I'd think
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