Topic: Build a Unit

[wissenlander]

This is really a rip off of many other ideas, but also a conglamoration of many posts I've had in this subforum.  It's a work in progress, and probably overly complex in some areas.  Just let me know what you think.

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State Troop – 4 pts (Unit Size: 10+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: Hand weapon, light armor
Command upgrade as normal.

Equipment Options: May choose one of the following: halberd or spear for + 1 pt
May take heavy armor for +2 pts per model
May take a shield for +1 pt (may not be combined with heavy armor)
+1 WS for +1 pt per model

Missile Troop – 8 pts (Unit Size: 10+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: hand weapon
Command upgrade as normal.

Equipment Options: May take either a handgun or a crossbow for free (not both)
Light armor +1 pt per model, Pavase +2 pt per model ((+2 AS, -1 move)May not combine armor options)
+1 BS +2 pt per model

Militia – 4 pts (Unit Size: 10+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7
Command upgrade as normal.

Free company:
Base Equipment: Hand weapon

Equipment Options: May take one of the following: additional hand weapon for +1 pt, great weapon for + 3 pts or spears for + 1 pt per model
May take light armor or a shield for +1 pt per model
May skirmish for +1 pt per model

Archers:
Base equipment: Bow, handweapon
Command upgrade as normal.

Equipment Options: May take a longbow for +2 pt per model
May take light armor for + 1 pt per model
May skirmish for +2 pt per model

Huntsmen – 10 pts (Unit Size: 5-10, 1 per 2K pts, does not count against the core minimum)
M4 WS3 BS4 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: longbow, handweapon
May take a marksman and/or a musician for +5 pts each.



Heavy Cavalry – 14 pts (Unit Size: 5+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base Equipment: Spear, Hand weapon, warhorse
Command upgrade as current knights.

Equipment Options: May take a lance +2 pts per model
May take light armor +1 pt per model or heavy armor +2 pts per model
May take barding for warhorse +3 pts per model

Knight Upgrade for + 9 pts per model
Includes Lance, hand weapon, FPA, shield, barded warhorse

Knight stat line
M4 WS4 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 8
Command upgrade as normal.

Mounted Options:
May take a great weapon instead of a lance for -1 pt per model, loses shield  (-1 AS)
May take away barding on horse for -3 pts per model

Dismounted Options (Unit Size: 10+):
Base Equipment: Great weapon, hand weapon, FPA

May be dismounted for -14 pts per model
If dismounted may be stubborn for +1 pt per model (makes the unit a special choice)
May trade greatsword for spear for -1 pt per model
May trade greatsword for shield for -1 pt per model

May upgrade either knight option to Inner Circle for +4 pts per model (makes the unit a special choice)

Light Cavalry – 11 pts (Unit Size: 5+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7
Command upgrade as current knights.

Base Equipment: Handweapon, warhorse

Equipment Options: May take a spear +1 pt per model
May take a bow +2 pt per model or a brace of pistols +4 pts per model
May take light armor +1 pt per model, May take shield + 1 pt per model (if both are taken, light cavalry is no longer fast cavalry)
May have +1 BS for +2 pts per model

[Inarticulate]

Maybe make dismounted knights like 0-1? no point in state troops with those guys filling in as infantry

[wissenlander]

That's a good point.  I was trying to stay away from restrictions like that where possible (I do have a cap on huntsmen somewhat, though).  The thing with that is that you could conceivably still take it, you just have to pay the points for it.  Those troops count double at least what a normal trooper would be.  But, then again we'd probably run into all knight armies that way.

[Inarticulate]

The State troop entry is great.

But maybe you need an equal ratio of mounted knights to dismounted ones?

[wissenlander]

I just realized something.  I gave archers regular command upgrades, but more than likely want it to be along the lines of the huntsmen command options.

[FictionalCharacter]

The State troop entry is great.

But maybe you need an equal ratio of mounted knights to dismounted ones?

my vote would be to require a bare minimum of, for instance, something like one mounted horse-holder for every four dismounted knights. that's how they rocked it in the civil war. of course that may just complicate matters.

[Inarticulate]

It may complicate say, an Orc.

But we are Fantasy Germans! We are Smart!

[t12161991]

Ripped off Michael W:

State Troops
   The soldiers of the Empire are drilled and trained on a daily basis, and while their martial skills may fall behind the more savage or elder races, their teamwork, discipline, and precision is second to none.  The regiments of the Empire move across the field of battle with a grace and flexibility that seems more reflective of a single mind than of a body of warriors.

State Troops benefit from the following Tactical Maneuvers.  To execute a Tactical Maneuver, a unit must succeed on a Leadership test at the beginning of the player's turn in a particular Tactical Field.  If a unit succeeds, then it may execute any of the Tactical Maneuvers under that Field.  The ability lasts until the end of the opposing player's turn.

Tactical Fields:
   1)  Detachment Maneuvers – Countercharge, Supporting Charge, Counterfire
   2)  Prepare to Receive Charge – Receive Chariots, Tighten Formation, Relocate
   3)  Move Your Hides – March By Squad, To the Flank, With a Purpose
   4)  Steady, Boys – You Will Hold, Shieldwall, Envelop Target

Tactical Maneuvers:

     1)  Countercharge:  Just like it works now.
     1)  Supporting Charge:  Just like it works now.
     1)  Counterfire:  Just like it works now.

     2)  Prepare to Receive Chariots:  Chariots do not inflict impact hits.
     2)  Tighten Formation:  The unit may add or remove ranks if charged.
     2)  Relocate:  The unit automatically rallies at the beginning of the next turn if it flees as a charge reaction.

     3)  March by Squad:  The unit may move freely and march in woods.
     3)  To the Flank:  At the beginning of the player's movement phase, the unit may immediately turn up to 90 degrees (expending 1" of movement).  Thereafter it may act normally, and may even declare charges (but at only 6" of charge distance instead of 8").  Note that is a Turn only, and not a Wheel, Reform, or Add Ranks.
     3)  Move With a Purpose:  The unit may march, even if enemies are within 8”.

     4)  By Sigmar, You Will Hold:  The unit may reroll failed Break and Fear tests.
     4)  Shieldwall:  If the unit has shields, it gains +1 to its armour save against missile fire, but cannot march.
     4)  Envelop Target:  If engaged by only a Large Target, the unit may fight with one extra rank

[The newbie]

Knight stat line
M4 WS4 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 8
Command upgrade as normal.

Dismounted Options (Unit Size: 10+):
Base Equipment: Great weapon, hand weapon, FPA

May be dismounted for -14 pts per model
If dismounted may be stubborn for +1 pt per model (makes the unit a special choice)
May trade greatsword for spear for -1 pt per model
May trade greatsword for shield for -1 pt per model

May upgrade either knight option to Inner Circle for +4 pts per model (makes the unit a special choice)

So for 8 points I can have a Ld8 WS4 2+AS (in combat) CORE units. Hell, i'd never take State Troops again.

I agree that the dismounted knights should be 0-1.

[wissenlander]

True.

I was trying to keep the points comparable to the way they are now as I think the pricing is pretty much spot on.  It might be a situation where the options are too varied and there would be too many loop holes.  The 0-1 restriction seems like the best compromise within this system.

[der Hurenwiebel]

I do like this in principle as a way to build the type of troopers you want for an army It just needs to be tweaked here and there to make it balance as has been pointed out by the newbie. 

Maybe instead of allowing the heavy cavalry to dismount to become greatswords or dismounted knights, simply add more options to the greatsword menu to fill in those blanks. 

I don't have much time today but will add amore complete amswer later on.

[t12161991]

True.

I was trying to keep the points comparable to the way they are now as I think the pricing is pretty much spot on.  It might be a situation where the options are too varied and there would be too many loop holes.  The 0-1 restriction seems like the best compromise within this system.

Make dismounting them cost... more? Say -10 instead of -14. Things are always cheaper for troops than they are for characters.

[Marius]

I hear everything on this thread!

However, I think that the tactical maneuvers should only be executed by detachments, and then only the detachment maneuvers, and by units joined by character, otherwise state troops become a teensy bit powerful.

[Helborg]

I like it, it's very pick 'n' mix, it allows you to play your army your way, makes the list way more versitile. Good work Wiss 


Sanj

[Derek Contyre]

Lol how to figure out your own way though??

It would take years to figure out what way you like to play and then how to apply them. . .

Although I have had years to learn lol
And now am just applying tactics to the lists.

[der Hurenwiebel]

My take on it, including the adaptions I would make with the changes I suggested in the engineer 8.0 thread.

State Troop – 4 pts (Unit Size: 10+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: Hand weapon, light armor
Command upgrade as normal.

Equipment Options: May choose one of the following: halberd or spear for + 1 pt, or pike for +2 pts per model.
May take heavy armor for +2 pts per model
May take a shield for +1 pt (may not be combined with heavy armor)
May take second hand weapon for +1 pt per model
may take great weapons for +2 pts per model
+1 WS for +1 pt per model
This allows the use of the so called duellist type troops with a heavy armour option.
As per engineer rules one unit per 2000 points may be armed with grenadoes, range 8 inches.
May have 2 detachments up to half the unit strength each
may be a detachment, if used as a detachment may take Forlorn hope rule +2pts per model (immune to psychology and skirmishers)


Missile Troop – 8 pts (Unit Size: 10+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: hand weapon
Command upgrade as normal.

Equipment Options: May take either a handgun or a crossbow for free (not both)
Light armor +1 pt per model, Pavise +2 pt per model (+2 AS, -1 move)
as per engineer special rules one unit per 2000 pts may be armed with Firelock Hand guns which allow the soldiers to move and fire as an archer does, +2 points per model. (must be led by a journeyman engineering tech)
+1 BS +2 pt per model
May have 2 detachments up to half the unit strength each

Militia – 4 pts (Unit Size: 10+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7
Command upgrade as normal.

Free company:
Base Equipment: Hand weapon

Equipment Options: May take one of the following: additional hand weapon for +1 pt, great weapon for + 3 pts or spears for + 1 pt per model
May take light armor or a shield for +1 pt per model
may take one or two pistols per soldier for +2 pt's per pistol (hows this warlord?)
May skirmish for +1 pt per model
May be detachment
May also take forlorn hope rule may not be combined with skirmish (duh)

Archers:
Base equipment: Bow, handweapon
Command upgrade as normal.

Equipment Options: May take a longbow for +2 pt per model
May take light armor for + 1 pt per model
May skirmish for +2 pt per model
May be detachment

Huntsmen – 10 pts (Unit Size: 5-10, 1 per 2K pts, does not count against the core minimum)
M4 WS3 BS4 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: longbow, handweapon
If an engineer is present in the army may take special dropping block handguns +3 pts range 30 s4 -3 as
May take a marksman and/or a musician for +5 pts each.
may be led by a journeyman engineering tech
May be detachment, but if is a detachment may not have command.


Heavy Cavalry – 14 pts (Unit Size: 5+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base Equipment: Spear, Hand weapon, warhorse
Command upgrade as current knights.

Equipment Options: May take a lance +2 pts per model
May take light armor +1 pt per model or heavy armor +2 pts per model
May take barding for warhorse +3 pts per model

Knight Upgrade for + 9 pts per model
Includes Lance, hand weapon, FPA, shield, barded warhorse


Knight stat line
M4 WS4 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 8
Command upgrade as normal.

Mounted Options:
May take a great weapon instead of a lance for -1 pt per model, loses shield  (-1 AS)
or May take brace of pistols for +2 pts per model (also loses lance and shield) also BS4 not WS
May take away barding on horse for -3 pts per model

Dismounted Options (Unit Size: 10+):
Base Equipment: Great weapon, hand weapon, FPA

May be dismounted for -14 pts per model
May trade greatsword for spear for -1 pt per model
May trade greatsword for shield for -1 pt per model
May trade great weapon for Halberd or pollaxe for free

May upgrade either knight option to Inner Circle/veteran for +4 pts per model (makes the unit a special choice) +1S,WS
may also add to either mounted or dismounted options the following psychology rules.
Stubborn,+1 infantry +2 Cavalry
hatred +2
cause fear +3
ItoP +3
Frenzy +2
Impetuous/capricious -2 (at the beginning of each turn roll a d6 on a roll of one the knights will bicker amongst themselves, otherwise they will always move at maximum speed towards the nearest enemy)
Adding any of the psychology rules will make the unit a special choice, only up to 3 choices may be chosen for a given unit.  (Beyond that look to the flagellant ranks for these troopers)

Light Cavalry – 11 pts (Unit Size: 5+)
M4 WS3 BS3 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7
Command upgrade as current knights.

Base Equipment: Handweapon, warhorse

Equipment Options: May take a spear +1 pt per model
May take a bow +2 pt per model or a brace of pistols +4 pts per model, or
May take a Repeater handgun +4 points per model or a brace of repeater pistols +6 points
May take light armor +1 pt per model, May take shield + 1 pt per model (if both are taken, light cavalry is no longer fast cavalry)
May have +1 BS for +2 pts per model
may be led by a journeyman engineering tech.


Also all gunpowder weapons may move and fire for the first shot of the game, after that they must reload.

[Warlord]

Forgot pistols on free company.

Heavy Cavalry should by default start with Heavy armour and a Warhorse. Other options are additional extras.

Light Cavalry should cover Outriders too.

[der Hurenwiebel]

Forgot pistols on free company.

Heavy Cavalry should by default start with Heavy armour and a Warhorse. Other options are additional extras.

Light Cavalry should cover Outriders too.

I don't have pistols in the free company, and when I wrote my changes I included RHG's in the light cav options for the same cost as a brace of pistols as well as a Br-RP's for 6 points.  Which unit did you see pistol's in again I couldn't find it in the free company re write I did?

Also I forgot to add the elite psychology menu to the dismounted and mounted knights profile, a little something we had been discussing over on the specials board.

[Warlord]

I don't have pistols in the free company

Sorry, I was mainly commenting on the initial post.

And yes, I realise you don't have pistols on the Free Company. Which is why I was suggesting it.

[der Hurenwiebel]

I don't have pistols in the free company

Sorry, I was mainly commenting on the initial post.

And yes, I realise you don't have pistols on the Free Company. Which is why I was suggesting it.

aha I get it 

I'll be making some edits to my proposal here in  a jiffy.

should also have said Edit's made a couple days ago now
nov 3rd ish i think  TONS of different troops types in regular infantry, skirmishing, missile, elite infantry.  Heavy light and super heavy cavalry and about every type of weapon you can reasonably expect to be able to use from on horseback with the exception of javelins which don't exist in the game. 

About all I might add to the game now would be special hit and run training, but then we'd have to extend those types of rules to armies like helves, delves and WOC  and that's a can of worms I don't want to open.  Instead I'll play beyond the golden gate armies in WAB.

How would we go about getting this info into the hands of GW game devs, or better yet their sups to become them ourselves.

[Nicholas Ironfist]

How bout???

Huntsmen – 10 pts (Unit Size: 5-10)
M4 WS3 BS4 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: longbow, handweapon
May take a marksman and/or a musician for +5 pts each.
May take Hochland LR for +7pts
Thoughts?

[der Hurenwiebel]

How bout???

Huntsmen – 10 pts (Unit Size: 5-10)
M4 WS3 BS4 T3 I3 W1 Ld 7

Base equipment: longbow, handweapon
May take a marksman and/or a musician for +5 pts each.
May take Hochland LR for +7pts
Thoughts?

Except for the HLR option I think you can build even better than that for similar prices or lower using the "build a unit" template.  How much would you want a HLR over a breech loading hand gun that you can move and shoot with?