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Author Topic: Defeatment of Lizzies  (Read 5410 times)

Offline squirrelboy

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« on: June 18, 2003, 08:44:05 PM »
How do I beat Lizzies


He has about (havent seen him in a week or so)

Slann Mage
40 skinks
30 saurus
5 cold ones (i always laugh his army is big yet such a small unit)
1 Stegadon
4 Terradons


That is what I am likely to face.  Give me tactics.  Dont worry i have at least one of every unit.

Thanks for your help!   :D
SqWEaK

Offline Atchman

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2003, 09:22:44 PM »
Which is list is he using the new one or the old one?  Makes a big difference, how many points are you playing with?
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline intrepidjohnny

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2003, 09:15:56 AM »
If he doesn't have kroxigors field lots of heavy cavalry... he won't be able to get through the armour save. I played a lot with lizarman and I always got kicked in the ass until I fielded an army with three units of heavy cav... I got a draw heh

Offline squirrelboy

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GRR i hate lizzies
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2003, 08:40:58 PM »
He is playing with the 6th edition standard rules.  

Im looking at a third generation slann.
He is fielding no kroxigors

My calvary will have free run.  I hope i can stem his magic for awhile.

2 dispel scrolls (for a total of 4) or a destroy magic scroll?

It will be 2000 pts.

I was going to use the hammer and the Anvil strategy.

My hammer was going to be mostly calvary.  (maybe even an elector on a griffon)

I read the book today and lizzies seem so powerful. Maybe its me.
SqWEaK

Offline Boris Todbringer

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2003, 05:09:32 PM »
I recently started to collect Lizardmen, and I think that if you want to beat him, you should do the 14 knights + TGM w/ laurels of victory. Lizardmen are a tough army to break from combat, but you will win by 5 on average if you get a charge off. Terradons are just plain broken. Magic missile them, get a good mortar shot off, or tie them up with the eagle's cry, because if they get to your hill, kill everything on it and get a couple of charges up your rear, you will have lost. The stegadon is also a monstrosity, though nothing a couple of good cannon shots can't handle.

Skinks are, in my opinion, one of the best skirmishing units in the game, aside from Beastmen. 12 inch movement, poisoned attacks and scouts for 7 points a model? Still, I think he's gone a little overboard. I play 50 saurus and 2 units of 12 skinks. Blowguns blow if the unit that has them wasn't scouting, because they still get -1 to hit if they moved and long ranged penalties. Not so with the javelin, though it doesn't get two attacks.
 
Another good idea I got from this forum: Give your captain on pegasus the casket of sorcery and put him in B-t-B with the slann. You might win combat by 1 or 2, but you're not gonna kill him, unless he fails his cold-blooded Ld 7 or 8 test. The whole point of charging it is to sap away his best spells one by one, and get off a few nasties of your own.

Also, take two detatchments of 5 for each unit. It doesn't look like he has much shooting (aside from skinks), and is not playing salamanders. If you get a counter-charge off, you might actually break the unit.

Good luck!
You've got questions? I've got a cannon.

Offline squirrelboy

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Lol
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2003, 08:18:24 PM »
Lol HAHA.

2 of your 3 ideas I have personally submitted to other posts. Thats great. I both plans, but I intend to modify the captain.  I am going to take an Elector count on a griffon with the casket.  I am going to take a calvary unit of the inner circle and lead them with a captain equipped with enchanted shield and Dawn Armor +0 rerollable armor save.  I have a unit of halbrediers with a wizard guarding the cannon.  Also I am going to take 30 - 40 handgunners for saurus killing and terradon shooting.  

Any more advice?

-Squirrelboy
SqWEaK

Offline Albrecht von Hinkel

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2003, 08:55:17 PM »
I think you might do better with crossbowmen because of the longer range. The lizzies doesn't have to much armour.

Offline Boris Todbringer

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2003, 10:29:28 PM »
:oops: Didn't realize you wrote those. Sorry for redundant advice.

I wouldn't play the Ec on a griffin. His Ld is needed elsewhere, and even with a 0+ rerollable save, a hit from a spell without a save could destory him (Uranon's thunder bolt comes to mind, and he may or may not get it depending on whether or not he's playing a skink priest.) But then again, if you are able to charge the Terradons, with a Ld 5 coldblooded test vs your terror... Different story! :lol:
You've got questions? I've got a cannon.

Offline squirrelboy

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Cool
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2003, 12:08:49 AM »
I did not mean to embarass u.  Sorry  :oops:

No my elector does not have the 0 rerollable save.  Thats the guy leading my knights.  My goal is to shoot them up and drain the slann.  Knights to slow them down and some huge blocks of infantry to stall more  :D


-Squirrelboy
SqWEaK

Offline Atchman

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2003, 06:15:11 PM »
I played Lizardmen today!  But not with my Empire army :oops:

My army had, Black Orc general on wyvern (decked out), BSB with Banner of Butchery, Orc shaman caddy, big unit of two hand weapon guys, big unit of spearmen, big unit of regular boyz, unit of goblin spears, unit of night goblin archers, gobbo chariot, boar chariot, 6 savage orc boar boyz, and a rocklobber.  

The lizard army had a slaan, and a skink priest, two big units of saurus, 3 units of skinks, 4 kroxigors, unit of 5 cold one cavalry, 3 salamanders.  He was going to magic and shoot me up.  My General, and the chariots took the battle to them.  The rest of the army just absorbed spells and missile fire.  The general killed the cold one knights after they charged him.  Then he charged into the flank of the kroxigors and killed them.  The chariots dropped the big saurus unit down to 12 figures.  All the skinks were fleeing or destroyed.  At the end of turn 5, I flee my wyvern behind the Slaan's unit.  On the next turn, the Slaan picked up three dice to roll for terror, and rolled 3 SIXES!  The lizardman player conceded.  

Lizardmen armies are vulnerable to fast moving hard units (aren't we all).  However, they don't have stuff to take them out from afar.  They are also very vulnerable to missile fire.  The secret is to have a unit to protect the missile firing unit from the skinks.  

The army IH8Skaven posted last week would have toasted this army.  It just did not have enough troops.  Too dependent on magic and shooting.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Combat311

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Lizardmen little to good??
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2003, 02:58:33 AM »
Is it me or is the lizardmen little to good!!!

Salamander are now, Troop killers(I fear them with my Empire army).  When someone can throw down 4 of them they are good.  They kill ever 2+AS knights(DE Cold Ones, others).  If you do the math they can kill a few.

Terradons are now, Wizard killers!!

I am not even going into the Saurus hero army or 18 casting Dice slann army.



You should take 3 small units of knights of 5 and go kill skinks.  Take all your shooting against the Saurus. If he take Stegadon shoot it dead with two cannons.  After you killed the Stegadon starting shooting at Saurus or if you have the flank of the Cold Ones shoot them.   You should win or get a draw.


Good luck

Offline Atchman

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2003, 01:18:14 PM »
Personally,  I think they are a little too good.  

The Terradons are just death on wizards!  They have SO many attacks and you really can't pin them down, so the next time here the come again!  Only defense I think would work for them is to of course, put your wizard in a unit.  Next to him a hero or your EC with the Sword of Sigismund.  That way he can intercept the Terradon that is wizard hunting.  This is also an effective tactic to protect your BSB, if he has a high point magic standard.  

Even though the Slaan is a lot better spell caster now, magic, if they get the wrong spells is a point pit.  Ask my lizardman buddy about facing a horde army and having a ton of damage spells!  Just can't kill enough dudes to be effective.  

I'm considering a new review from the Empire perspective of the Lizardman army.  Just need to get a book.  Same thing for Khemri.

More later, gotta run to church!
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline intrepidjohnny

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2003, 08:01:14 AM »
I usually get rid of terradons with my helblaster and if necessary I kill the remants with crossbowmen. And I think the slann is a point pit even with good spells

Offline Atchman

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2003, 12:36:53 PM »
Quote from: intrepidjohnny
I usually get rid of terradons with my helblaster and if necessary I kill the remants with crossbowmen. And I think the slann is a point pit even with good spells


Since my Lizardman buddy won't play against my Empire army, the 18" charge of the Wolf Boyz took them out.  He ventured to close, then didn't roll high enough to escape.  

I would hate for a unit of Terradons to hit my pistoliers!  All those S4 attacks cannot be good.  Maybe you could kill a couple on the stand and shoot.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline squirrelboy

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Thanks for your help
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2003, 08:35:11 PM »
I dont know how I did it  :oops:, but I was able to convince my friend that terradons suck  :D  :D  :D  :D   So I dont have to play against them.   :D  :D  :D  :D    :wink:   Anyway Im not longer afraid of anything he has.  Im planning on taking lots of guns and a couple VERY large units.  Im going to try and take out the SLann as soon as possible.  Ya thats my plan.  Take the Slann out of hte game with the Casket.  The rest of his army will be cake as he is taking a second generation slann in a  2000 point game.  

By the way Atchman.  I h8 Skaven too  :wink:   I just dont like the whole idea for rattling guns.

We all complain that Lizardmen are so fast and good with Terradons. What about the new beastmen?  Most of their army can ambush you and their troops are 6 points.  Ungors take the missles and Gors Fight.  WHat the hell.  I really dont understand how that works out logically.  So Gors can use ungors for cannon fodder, but Orcs cant nab a goblin or snottling to take hte arrow?  Also how is it that the empire (with their spectacular generals a.k.a. us)  Gets ambushed by a bunch of furry men?
SqWEaK

Offline Totmacher

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2003, 10:58:02 PM »
Does your opponent leave his Slann alone?  Or does he put them in a unit of Saurus or Temple guard?  If the Slann is in a unit, he'll be in the second rank and you won't be able to get in BTB with him with your peg-rider w/the casket.

Offline Gyg

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2003, 02:01:30 PM »
Lizards overpowered? No.
I'm a lizardman player (I'm in fact that lizzie player who Interpidjohnny is playing against so often).
First of all lizardmen don't have any antidote against heavy cavalry.
Second their characters cost A LOT!!!
Lizardmen army is quite balanced and by no means overpowered.
And yes, captain with this casket that steals spells is useless as Slann can (and should) be placed in second rank so no B-t-B contact possible.

Combat311

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Gyg
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2003, 04:03:33 PM »
Gyg what are you talking about??

"Second their characters cost A LOT!!! "
The Saurus hero army does not cost alot!!  There marks are way to good!!  It's like like Chaos but cheaper that want the lizardmen book is about.


"First of all lizardmen don't have any antidote against heavy cavalry. "

They can handle cavalry(Not Chaos knight).  Big block of saurus can handle Empire Knights, HE Cavalry.


"Lizardmen army is quite balanced and by no means overpowered. "

Your a monkey!!!
 :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Offline Gyg

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2003, 07:39:21 PM »
Should be "Second, "
Saurus can handle heavy cavalry?
Intrepid Johnny, say what happened to my 19 saurus with a hero in our last game...
My saurus hero costs "ONLY" 85 points.
Slann 325, Saurus lord 145.
Empire player fields for these points fully equipped captains/wizard lords/grand masters/elector counts.
He is more expensive than BO Big Boss and Vampire Thrall for example.
Now about marks... Most of them cost at least 20 points and there aren't that good.
Only 3 enchance your fighting capabilities: Mark of Sotek (+1A when charging, 20pts), Mark of Quetzl that gives +1 to AS and costs 15pts and  Mark of Tzunki (+1I 5pts.).
The best thing is Saurus Cavalry... 35 points per model... T4 and AS of 3+.
1 unit of handgunners and they drop like flies...

Offline intrepidjohnny

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2003, 07:53:39 PM »
go gyg!!! :D  :D  :D hehe


well his 19 saurus with a hero were utterly crushed two times (once I didn't catch them while they were fleeing) by 9 white wolves with a grand master.

Offline squirrelboy

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2003, 08:28:08 PM »
Guys thanks for all your help i won the battle.  It was kinda easy.  I recked the saurus guarding the slann with heavy calvary and my elector count went to town.  

By  the way Gyg you are wrong.  Lizzies can handle calvary easy.  The answer is spelled K-R-O-X-I-G-O-R-S

I think 3 str 7 attacks easily handle calvary.  Your LORD characters are exspensive.  your heros are blue light specials at k-mart.

yes i narrowly won and thanks for your help.  Lizzies are kinda powerful, but i think that the average empire general should do well.

I h8te beastmen.  I started to glance at their new book..................... :cry:
SqWEaK

Offline squirrelboy

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2003, 08:31:32 PM »
Guys thanks for all your help i won the battle.  It was kinda easy.  I recked the saurus guarding the slann with heavy calvary and my elector count went to town.  

By  the way Gyg you are wrong.  Lizzies can handle calvary easy.  The answer is spelled K-R-O-X-I-G-O-R-S

I think 3 str 7 attacks easily handle calvary.  Your LORD characters are exspensive.  your heros are blue light specials at k-mart.

yes i narrowly won and thanks for your help.  Lizzies are kinda powerful, but i think that the average empire general should do well.

I h8te beastmen.  I started to glance at their new book..................... :cry:
SqWEaK

Offline Gyg

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2003, 06:15:25 AM »
There is one problem with kroxigors: their charge range is 2 inches less than Empire Cavalry. And charging unit of, say,10 white wolves will demolish them fairly quickly.
Lizardmen don't have 100% antidote for heavy cavalry as kroxigors can be easily charged by cavalry and crushed.
If you don't agree then tell me how can I charge cavalry with my kroxigors while having lesser M????

inspectormidget

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2003, 08:25:44 AM »
the best way to fight lizzies is lowwer there ammount with artillery so its then fare or not fare for them

Offline Totmacher

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Defeatment of Lizzies
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2003, 07:41:47 PM »
3 swarms (15 wounds) will stop any heavy cav dead in their tracks.  There is your antidote.