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Author Topic: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point  (Read 3617 times)

Offline Chemnitz

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Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« on: August 22, 2013, 03:03:41 AM »
I'm new at Empire, and I have too many list ideas and limited cash to spend on models.

So, I'm taking an opinion poll here: What are your favorite units for different roles considering the points that they cost?

1. Best General (and mount if applicable)?
2. Best Tarpit/Anchor Unit (other than steam tank)?
3. Best Hammer Unit?
4. Best Bunker for wizard?
5. Best Ranged (magic or shooting) on a single target?
6. Best Ranged (magic or shooting) multiple target?
7. Best Core Choice?
8. Best Special Choice?
9. Best Rare Choice (other than steam tank)?
10. Finally... What unit do you enjoy playing with the most (even if it's not competitive)?

If it's easier to answer 'favorite' rather than 'best', that is fine.  I appreciate any and all responses.

Offline Chemnitz

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 03:05:56 AM »
I left off... 11. Best Chaff / Re-director?

Offline Chemnitz

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 03:13:18 AM »
Looking at it, I could easily ask 10 more questions... like most necessary buffs, etc.  So... Yeah, add whatever else you'd like to say.

Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 04:44:59 AM »
1. Uparmoured AL.
2. There's a unit beside the STank?!? Okay...60 Spearmen in bus with said AL, detachments and Crown.
3. DGK
4. 10 Archers
5. HBVG
6. Not sure what you mean...Level 4?
7. Knights
8. Great Cannon
9. What?!? There's a second unit beside...oh, okay, Hurri.
10. General on Griffon
11. 5 archer detachment due to point cost and core slot / 5 Pistoliers due to speed and mobility
Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. - S. Clemens

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Offline dseevers1854

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 04:52:09 AM »
The singular answer to all of your questions is...it depends. I mean, common things you'll find in a lot of lists include Demigryphs, Steam Tanks, Cannons, and HBVGs. But as far as bests go, I think it's more of a synergy thing that you should try to find. As an example, the Hurricanum is a pretty likeable buff wagon, but not if you're running a cav list, as it's pretty well expected that you won't get maximum affect out of it because your units will outrun it.

Offline zifnab0

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 11:38:08 AM »
Answers in bold:

1. Best General (and mount if applicable)? Arch Lector
2. Best Tarpit/Anchor Unit (other than steam tank)? Other than steam tank?  I guess a bus of spearmen
3. Best Hammer Unit? Demigryphs
4. Best Bunker for wizard? 10 archers
5. Best Ranged (magic or shooting) on a single target? Cannon
6. Best Ranged (magic or shooting) multiple target? HBVG
7. Best Core Choice? Halberds
8. Best Special Choice? Cannon
9. Best Rare Choice (other than steam tank)? HBVG
10. Finally... What unit do you enjoy playing with the most (even if it's not competitive)? Steam Tank.  It's just so much fun.

Offline grifter

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 11:58:10 AM »
1. Best General (and mount if applicable)? Arch Lector, mount depends on how you want to use him; or none at all (i.e. have your lvl 4 Wizard or BSB do it on the side because the +1ld isnīt worth it for your army)
2. Best Tarpit/Anchor Unit (other than steam tank)? multiple small Archer units, or Reiksguard if your opponent has trouble dealing with 1+AS
3. Best Hammer Unit? Demigryphs, oc
4. Best Bunker for wizard? 10 Archers
5. Best Ranged (magic or shooting) on a single target? Great Cannon (itīs in the name)
6. Best Ranged (magic or shooting) multiple target? HBVG with Engineer
7. Best Core Choice? Knights, or Helbards if you like sub-par infantry
8. Best Special Choice? Demigryphs
9. Best Rare Choice (other than steam tank)? HBVG
10. Finally... What unit do you enjoy playing with the most (even if it's not competitive)? Captasus
11. Best Chaff / Re-director Archers, or Knights depending on your list

Except for 1., 2. and 10. I donīt think youīre going to get very diverse set of answers Iīm afraid...

« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 12:17:43 PM by grifter »

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 04:19:07 PM »
1. Arch Lector, War Altar is strictly optional because of the latest FAQ.
2. Reiksguard. 1+ armor and Stubborn hand them the title over Greatswords.
3. Demigryph Knights, hands down.
4. 10 Archers.
5. Great Cannon for sure.
6. Volley Gun with Engineer, otherwise Outriders.
7. I'd say Halberdiers based on my preferred army setup, but I can see an argument for Inner Circle Knights.
8. Demigryph Knights.
9. Helblaster Volley Gun.
10. The Steam Tank is the most fun unit in this army if you ask me.
11. I'd say a 5-Archer Detachment, particularly if it's coming out of Greatswords or Halberdiers with a Stubborn character in them. Very annoying.

Offline Chemnitz

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 06:51:07 PM »
Thanks for all the responses.  A lot of this confirms what I thought, but it's still helpful.

Lord Solar Plexus - I have a Griffon (which I haven't even modeled).  What rider/equipment do you use?  What are your experiences with it tactically?

Rothgar13 - I like the 5-archer detachment, Stubborn tactic.  It's one of things tempting me away from my plan of an all Cav list to perhaps a more balanced list.

Grifter - All Cav led by a Lvl 4 intrigues me so that I can redirect more points to other units.  Any experience with that?

Everyone - What's everyone's favorite playstyle? For instance, you might say, "Kill them before they arrive (Gunline and/or Light Council)", or "Aggressive, I use all Cav" or perhaps, "Outmaneuver them with captasi and diverters" or "ultimate synergy - buffing all units" or "a little bit of everything" or _______________________.

Offline grifter

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 08:08:39 PM »
Thanks for all the responses.  A lot of this confirms what I thought, but it's still helpful.

Lord Solar Plexus - I have a Griffon (which I haven't even modeled).  What rider/equipment do you use?  What are your experiences with it tactically?

Rothgar13 - I like the 5-archer detachment, Stubborn tactic.  It's one of things tempting me away from my plan of an all Cav list to perhaps a more balanced list.

Grifter - All Cav led by a Lvl 4 intrigues me so that I can redirect more points to other units.  Any experience with that?

Everyone - What's everyone's favorite playstyle? For instance, you might say, "Kill them before they arrive (Gunline and/or Light Council)", or "Aggressive, I use all Cav" or perhaps, "Outmaneuver them with captasi and diverters" or "ultimate synergy - buffing all units" or "a little bit of everything" or _______________________.

If you use a Griffon, itīs probably best to go all in...GotE with a magic weapon, White Cloak, OTS and Bloodroar on the Griffon should do it. A  fun but difficult to play build is a Beasts wizard with White Cloak and Fencerīs Blades, though Iīve never tried it personally.

Check out the last couple of TEG/TCG threads to see lists without Ld9 in action.


Offline Chemnitz

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 08:22:37 PM »
I've been reading Sammay's list and comments when he played Ogres on TEG 4.  It looks really fun.  I don't have the models, but I might start working towards it. 

I was thinking of arming a GotE on Grypon like a Grand Master - Runefang, OTS.  If he can hide from cannons turn 1, it might work out. What do you think?

Thanks again for all the comments.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 09:27:41 PM by Chemnitz »

Offline sammay23

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 09:33:13 PM »
I've been reading Sammay's list and comments when he played Ogres on TEG 4.  It looks really fun.  I don't have the models, but I might start working towards it. 

I was thinking of arming a GotE on Grypon like a Grand Master - Runefang, OTS.  If he can hide from cannons turn 1, it might work out. What do you think?

Thanks again for all the comments.

I've been trying to find an excuse to field one. I do think it could be viable with the White Cloak and some other gear, but it does suffer from the fact that it's a huge points sink and not so durable. I'd love to see someone try it out.
Bring out the mop and broom sammay.  I want to see you clean this house.

Offline Mortim

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 10:23:55 PM »
I have fun with my Griffon Lord (Fpa, dragonhelm, Sword of might, shield, OTS) but I use a AL on Altar as my general, so my Griffin lord is free to rampage!

btw OTS is sooooo good for the Griffin, it realy helps him alot. This build is realy fun when you reach a typical magebunker 8-)

Offline Chemnitz

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2013, 03:02:25 AM »
What about FPA, Enchanted Shield, White Cloak of Ulric, OTS, Sword of Anti Heroes?

+1 Save, +5 Ward Save (+2 flaming), -1 to hit Close Combat...

And if you charge two characters, you're buffed pretty nice.

In that scenario, You get 9 WS 5 hits, and average 3.5 auto-hit hits from Thunderstomp.  Assuming you're hitting on 4's, that's an average of 8 Str. 6 hits.  Even on Toughness 6, you'll get an average of 4 wounds at -3 armor save, with re-roll ward save.  Toughness 4 would be in big trouble!  And even if you would die, you will probably take at least one character with you.

I know Anti-heroes doesn't always work out, but he does seem like a fun (infantry) character hunter.  My Arch Lector would be peeing himself.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:28:10 AM by Chemnitz »

Offline Mortim

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2013, 06:14:15 AM »
Chemnitz, sadly i think you can't have ots+white cloak (same item category)

Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2013, 06:50:39 AM »
Well, I *don't* have a Griffon (yet).  :-D I used a proxied Chimera a couple of times. The Beast always gets Bloodroar. The rider usually gets something like FP, enchanted shield/charmed shield, Dragonhelm, 4++ and some magic weapon - Biting Blade, Sword of Swift Slaying, Sword of Might. The gravest danger are bolters and cannon. Don't let some Reavers or Bowmen take away your charmed shield save and make use of LoS blocking terrain. To further increase its survivability - which against Dwarfs or bolter-heavy Elves isn't good - I like Pha's, Iceshard Blizzard, ample counter-battery fire and target saturation (two Captasi, STank, DGK, buff wagons...). Offensively, I use it to declare a charge on something preferably outside the General/BSB AoE's, preferably close to the Board Edge. Again, Iceshard on the target helps. I've found this to be quite useful, making chariots run off the table that I couldn't realistically reach. Not so good against Vampires or TK but at least the former have less shooting, and against the latter I throw him into his archers.

5 archers stubborn is not a tactic I'm afraid, it's a loophole. Charged frontally they will usually all be killed, so you need to present a flank - and it's utterly unrealistic that a unit would be of higher spirit (better off) if flank charged.

My fav play style includes mobility with some buffs, static or magical, plus the age-old hammer and anvil style. I often have a bus of Spears with a detachment, some knights of any description, a buff wagon and try to outmaneouver the opposition.
Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. - S. Clemens

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Offline sammay23

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2013, 05:24:20 PM »
If you can consistently outmanuver an opponent, you'll win consistently. This game is all about bringing the hurt to bear when and where you want it, and preventing your opponent from doing the same.
Bring out the mop and broom sammay.  I want to see you clean this house.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Must Take Units / Best Units Per Point
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2013, 07:55:14 PM »
As is seen in the current TDG two very maneuverable armies and I think we will dance around another turn before serious fighting starts.