Topic: Rumours and what's new to be expected of WAoS

[Gankom]

Possibly way more, they haven't really given a firm date. We know there's been multiple Ages since the Old World. Age of Gods, Age of Legends, Age of Chaos, etc. With the 'start' of AoS being the start of the Age of Sigmar and taking the world back from chaos.

Its been long enough for tons of civilizations to rise and fall, and for things to fall back into myth. Grimnir being destroyed for example happened long enough ago for no one to really know specifics about what happened beyond him killing one of the biggest monsters in the verse, dying in the attempt, and shards of both of them to get spread around the realms.

[Gankom]

To correct myself, there's currently 4 ages. The "before" Age, which is right after the Old World dies and Sigmar is still finding his feet.

The Age of Myth, where Sigmar has saved/reunited the various gods and they lead the realms into a glorious golden age. But at the same time cracks are forming in the 'perfect' pantheon.

The Age of Chaos. Chaos shows up, wrecks things as usual and conquers most of everything. Sigmar retreats back to his one realm (realm of heaven) and holds it.

Age of Sigmar; The current age, Sigmar is back with a vengeance and is pushing Chaos back. The other surviving gods like Nagash or Allarielle are also pushing for their own goals.

https://ageofsigmar.fandom.com/wiki/Ages_of_the_Mortal_Realms

[Jmash]

So it's now just a skewed, fantasy-esq version of the Great Crusade. Just retaking realms rather than planets with a shiny golden God-Emperor at the helm... 

Fair enough, like I said I totally lost interest in the lore when The Old World was axed so can appreciate that it has its own new goings on which to be fair is for the better as it makes AoS its own distinct franchise/brand or whatever. If the new elves want cow mountains then who are we to say no?

Also 10,000 years is a BIG skip into the future! 

[Gankom]

It is very Great Crusade esk, yes! Although generally less one sided then 40k and with other factions actually being involved beyond punching bags. If anything Nagash and his dead people have been top dog for a little while now in lore.

The Lore for AoS at the start was not great, which I totally understand turned a lot of people off. But they've now had a fair bit of time to fine tune it, add some depth and expand it. I personally think it does a much better job then 40k or fantasy did with balance between the factions. In AoS everyone has a fair bit of time to shine and its not an overwhelming curb stomp for anyone.

[GamesPoet]

Seems like definitely an expansion from the curd they had at the beginning.  I read the fluff on the site where the link went, and it seemed a bit choppy somehow, although that is just the feeling I get from first reading it.  However, not sure how healthy that sense is either.

[Gankom]

Yeah that's mostly the fault of the link I think. It's a fan wiki, and its just not updated super quickly or super well. It looks like they grabbed little bits from a couple of books to quickly throw something up. I put it up initially just to add a bit more and went looking for better stuff, but there doesn't seem to be a better fan wiki yet.

[Jmash]

For me the whole new setting was just a step too far which is why I lost interest.

I like my fantasy (obviously) and with fantasy always comes some element of weird, with all manner of magic, monsters, gods and general disbelief but that's what makes it what it is. Different franchises have their own take on a broader theme and GW had a fantastic lore for the Old World, had their own niches established and a fantastic narrative but the biggest thing for me was that it was always tangible, I don't go in for the really OTT stuff so when the setting is relatable but has elements of weird and wonderfulness thrown in it is really captivating to me. I have always been a supporter of the underdog, give me an honest squidgy human with a stout heart and a good sword arm over any magic wielding god-forged being any day, but I've always been the same, even in video games it irks me when as the hero I have to have some sort of innate powers to use that makes me 'special' so I avoid using them!

Anyway, when AoS came along and everything turned into some strange kind of fantasy version of Stargate, with angelic forms descending from the heavens on some god awful dragon thing it just became too much. I won't even begin to talk about the elves riding eels (who are they fighting UNDERWATER!!??) and the fact that everything started to get silly names.

I'll just happily bide my time until the Old World is brought back - maybe I'll have some minis painted by then!? 

[Gankom]

It'll be interesting to see how the Old World comes back. I'm still picturing something more like Forgeworlds Horus Heresy line rather then anything major. For all its faults Age of Sigmar certainly seems to be doing well.

I won't even begin to talk about the elves riding eels (who are they fighting UNDERWATER!!??)

Anything is possible with the power of magic! Literally in this case. The water elf wizards essentially use magic to bring a magical version of the sea with them when they raid. So the creatures are still swimming through the air, and their enemies are slowed down and become sluggish.

AoS definitely cranked up the silly names as well but to me that was always part and parcel of any kind of fantasy. Even with things like hellblaster, hellcannon, etc. One of my favorite parts about the new Gotrek stories is him constantly complaining about the silly names for everything, and why wont anyone use the PROPER names. To a point where he even refuses to identify as the new style dwarves because he thinks they're a whole different people.

[GamesPoet]

I agree that W:AoS seems to be doing well to a degree.

I won't say that the "high" fantasy stuff of W:AoS isn't an effort to create, although with "low" fantasy one really does need to be very creative with their effort to keep it going and not get lazy.  Like Padre's effort with his Tilean campaign, and this is just coming from one person, when GW could have chosen to get behind really doing something favorable for the Olde World.  Instead GW crushed the Olde World to find a way to make fantasy profitable quickly.  That cost them a backlash, that they still haven't recovered from it with old time fans (not that such is their interest), yet could if they are creative with the rumored return to the Olde World.  I frankly don't buy any of their newer stuff, the stormcrud eternals are horrible models from my perspective, and they've done nothing to move the human factions forward with any credibility either.  There's that new undead force that look like pre-Necronos, and the newest elves seems a tragic direction to take them, yet maybe that is their point.  I really think this W:AoS was a way for them to create a bridge to the world of 40K, especially now that I hear the current time frame of W:AoS is supoosably 10,000 years in the future from the Olde World.  That's just not where I want to go with my fantasy collection, so no more money spent in that direction, alhtough I'm sure just being one little dude in the wide world of miniature gaming just isn't that important to them.

I did stop the other day and wonder how SteveB might have handled all this W:AoS stuff, yet he was alive during when it started, and I don't recall seeing any of the new stuff in his collection, so that leads me to believe that despite is vast and creative imagination he wasn't interested in walking down the distraction that something like W:AoS might be considered by some hobbiests, and so in that light, I do feel as if my view isn't all by itself.  And then when I see Padre keep going with his world, that is just more credibility for me to keep going with mine.

[Jmash]

It'll be interesting to see how the Old World comes back. I'm still picturing something more like Forgeworlds Horus Heresy line rather then anything major. For all its faults Age of Sigmar certainly seems to be doing well.

Even so Horus Heresy did get some plastic sets so I can hold on hope that we might get some 'mainstream' new minis, albeit more of a sideproject game like Necromunda or something.

I frankly don't buy any of their newer stuff, the stormcrud eternals are horrible models from my perspective, and they've done nothing to move the human factions forward with any credibility either.

I do generally agree on the front of the 'Stormcruds' though I have picked up the FW head upgrades as they add a nice bit of variation to my units and the female heads are useful for my current top secret side project...  (that isn't meant to be kinky in any way but when I re-read it sounds a bit odd!)

I will also say that whilst I don't like the move towards push-fit and easy to build sets, the newer models such as sisters of battle are really cool and the newer plastic sets before GW killed the Old World were getting better and better so I hold out hope that we will eventually get some kickass knighly orders updates and other such awesomeness (one can still dream).

The water elf wizards essentially use magic to bring a magical version of the sea with them when they raid. So the creatures are still swimming through the air, and their enemies are slowed down and become sluggish.

As for this it just sums up the OTT and intangible-ness that I referred to! 

[Gankom]

In its defence, 10,000 years was just a number I grabbed out of the air to give some kind of a firm guess. The multiple ages is a better way of looking at it.

And actually I've seen some AoS stuff in SteveB's collection. The airship that Zak posted recently was mostly made using the new steam punk dwarf bits. There's been other bits and pieces as well, but SteveB was pretty clearly playing in his own fantastic world by that point.


The push fit stuff is an interesting point and I have really mixed feelings on it. I know they're HUGELY popular with new folks just getting into the game, but for anyone who's been in it a while its far less interesting. Most experienced folks prefer to build their own versions and not have everyone look the same. On the other hand, I've had great fun buying the pushfit (Because they're fairly cheaper) and then converting them into new stuff using bits.

[Jmash]

Further to this I would also say that I'm torn when it comes to GW decision to unceremoniously kill the Old World.

From a fans perspective I can see why this was taken as a betrayal and a lack of loyalty and hence the backlash, but from GW perspective AoS is a fresh starting point and you can see they've definitely targeted a somewhat younger and more diverse fan-base which you can't really slate them for trying to do, they needed fresh blood (for the blood god?) and this was the best (subjective) way for them to achieve it.

[Jmash]

The push fit stuff is an interesting point and I have really mixed feelings on it. I know they're HUGELY popular with new folks just getting into the game, but for anyone who's been in it a while its far less interesting. Most experienced folks prefer to build their own versions and not have everyone look the same. On the other hand, I've had great fun buying the pushfit (Because they're fairly cheaper) and then converting them into new stuff using bits.

Besides tanks, the sisters of battle sets were the first infantry units I've ever had from GW where I had to follow building instructions... I get that there is maybe 2-3 alternate arm and weapon selections for each, but the bodies are fixed with no variation possible. They do still look really cool and dynamic in their poses though and maybe SoB need to build that way because of their flowing robes etc? I can't comment on how any of the other sets are made these days?

[Gankom]

In my experience recent kits are nearly 50/50 like that. Half are fantastic with all kinds of options, the other half look impressive but don't have nearly the same kind of customization. I was super disappointed with the necromunda kits. They look awesome, but when you open it you find each body choice has two weapon options and that's more or less it. Plus, because they've split the bits and where they connect you can't easily put them on other bodies. The arms are fitted to certain body types, while most of the weapons/hands will then only attach to certain arms. You can get around it with a bit of green stuff fairly easy, but it was still pretty disappointing.

Deathwatch kits for example are amazing, and come with tons of options. I can't remember what the last not push fit AoS set I got was, but I remember being really pleased with it. Then on the other hand I was disappointed with the Necromunda enforcers.

[GamesPoet]

And actually I've seen some AoS stuff in SteveB's collection. The airship that Zak posted recently was mostly made using the new steam punk dwarf bits. There's been other bits and pieces as well, but SteveB was pretty clearly playing in his own fantastic world by that point.

Good point.  I can see him using bits to fulfill his own vision.

[GamesPoet]

In my experience recent kits are nearly 50/50 like that. Half are fantastic with all kinds of options, the other half look impressive but don't have nearly the same kind of customization. I was super disappointed with the necromunda kits. They look awesome, but when you open it you find each body choice has two weapon options and that's more or less it. Plus, because they've split the bits and where they connect you can't easily put them on other bodies. The arms are fitted to certain body types, while most of the weapons/hands will then only attach to certain arms. You can get around it with a bit of green stuff fairly easy, but it was still pretty disappointing.

Deathwatch kits for example are amazing, and come with tons of options. I can't remember what the last not push fit AoS set I got was, but I remember being really pleased with it. Then on the other hand I was disappointed with the Necromunda enforcers.

What does "not push fit" mean

[Gankom]

So push fit are the new easy build stuff. Designed for beginners to make without really needing glue. They look awesome, but they're all essentially one pose. So 'not push fit" would be the regular kits where you build them yourself with glue and have far more ability to customize.

[GamesPoet]

Ah responding to the part of the population that whines about creating figures.

Honestly, despite my tiring of the 28mm Perry figures I am currently doing over on the 100 Days of Hobby thread, I really do prefer it that way.

[Gankom]

Ah responding to the part of the population that whines about creating figures.

I don't quite think that's it, although possibly a part. I think its far more about their increased attempts to make it easier to get into the hobby. You've got contrast paints that make it much easier and quicker to get an army painted. There's been WAY more starter sets, both for armies and the game, to help people learn the rules and build a collection. The push fit stuff is more about going "Hey, here's a cheapo kit that gets you a handful of neat guys! Use it with these other neat kits to quickly make an army! You're good to go already!"

I also think its working. Both 40k and AoS have seen a huge surge in recent years (Although the new editions play a big part there), and I know from my local hobby store AND GW store that the push fit stuff sells out nearly double the speed the other kits do.

But it is certainly just down to different preferences, and very much what its aimed at. The pushfit/starter set stuff is aimed at the people newer to the game, and there's plenty of bread crumbs to lead to the bigger, fancier kits.

[Jmash]

The pushfit/starter set stuff is aimed at the people newer to the game, and there's plenty of bread crumbs to lead to the bigger, fancier kits.

I agree that GW have gone down the 'ready made' push-fit route as a means to get new people into the hobby but as you say with the necromunda kits and my experience with the Sisters of Battle, though they are great looking models the options for customisation are limited and I hardly think they are aimed directly at the new fans.

My only hope is that the equipment and armament options for any future empire soldiers upon the return of the Old World would already be quite limited (sword or polearm) so maybe there would be more scope therefore for customization as you would envisage that arm options wouldn't need to conform to any pre-determined positions like they do in 40k where various guns and firearms are involved? 

I wonder what these new lumineth guys are like in terms of customizability?...

[GamesPoet]

My fear is that won't happen.

[Jmash]

My fear is that won't happen.

Yeeaah you're probably right!

But I can still live in hope! 

[Artobans Ghost]

Quote GP: Ah responding to the part of the population that whines about creating figures.

Hmmm..... I think I know who is being referred to here lol
😺

[GamesPoet]

   Well Gankom does have a point.  Yet still, some folks aren't thrilled with making figures and prefer everything in one piece.  To think some might be complaining about using glue, parents for their kids I can see, but others ... oh well.

[Gankom]

I thought this was an interesting article on the last 5 years of AoS.

Age of Sigmar: A 5 year Retrospective

https://www.goonhammer.com/age-of-sigmar-a-5-year-retrospective/