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Author Topic: (Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread  (Read 2918 times)

Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« on: July 08, 2005, 03:33:36 AM »
I finished the main part of my army today.  I still have about 70 shields to do, and base all of the army.  

Can't quite get the hang of a different army yet.  I'm doing very well in practice, but I'm still making a lot of mistakes.  

I was also asked to "tone down" my list by the Necro crew.  It was pretty harsh, but the problem is the usual problem with a "medium" magic phase; it doesn't do anything unless you roll an IF.
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Offline beastmage

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2005, 04:37:41 AM »
@ atchman

"tone down", thats a bit harsh innit, i mean if you can't stand the heat don't play tournaments,

some of the lists iv'e seen, read and heard about have been terrible and as long as your nice about it and are good in the sportsmanship area (cant see you not being, i'd love to give you a game if i didn't live in australia!!!)

so what happens now??? do you have to tone it down, i mean if their asking you to do that then they either shouldn't have a entry fee (people are playing for the win) or shouldn't hold the tourny,

personally i wouldn't take that, id just add more ratling guns,and if they try to kick you out in the immortal words of Ali G answer,

"Is it cus I is black "

cheers,

beastmage
Skaven? Oh you mean the things that stand in between the ratling guns?

Offline Arash

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2005, 05:44:50 AM »
@beastmage- with 4(or was it 3?) ratling guns, 278 skaven, and 3lv2 warlocks I am guessing that a lot of people wouldnt want to "take the heat" against Atch in the necro (no offense atch). Also, it would show big time in his soft scores, which are key to getting a good place.

Offline beastmage

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2005, 11:21:06 AM »
@ arash, okay fair point but were not talking about some 13 year old with his 25 power dice tzeentch army, were talking about atch! but yeh its true sounds like a harsh list and i'd have no idea how to beat it, id probably try and assasinate the general with sword of fate, not rock solid but it's all i got

and his army could be worse, personally if it was a nasty list from one of the mods here i'd last just long enuff to wet myself,

@ atch i tried to make a list with that amount of models and i barely got it all into army builder, are u using a grey seer or a warlord, personally warlord all the way but it's your list??? (mmm ld 10, 2 point troops)

btw u dont have to answer, actually dont cus i bet theres stingy waac players scouting your list right now

@ atch and T.V.I, good luck for the tourny, u better win otherwise r soo cut from the A-Team! (no pressure) :wink:  :wink:

cheers and good luck,

beastmage
Skaven? Oh you mean the things that stand in between the ratling guns?

Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2005, 11:52:05 AM »
I think I'll be fine with the "toned down" list guys.  The only thing that taking the assassin instead of more magic has done was make it actually better against certain armies.  The shooting is still effective, but the magic is nerfed to the point where it won't do anything significant.  

Besides there are still 275 little dudes running all over the place. :)

Hijack Over

(No offense dudes, but we shouldn't be discussing my army list in an Empire forum)
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Offline PygmyHippo

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2005, 02:03:35 PM »
Quote from: beastmage
i mean if their asking you to do that then they either shouldn't have a entry fee (people are playing for the win) or shouldn't hold the tourny


Agreed.  And there had better be no scoring whatsoever for army composition, and no award for best general or army selection, since the organizers are deciding what your generalship should be, and which troops you should take.  Total crap.

Offline The Village Idiot

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2005, 04:14:15 PM »
Quote from: PygmyHippo
And there had better be no scoring whatsoever for army composition, and no award for best general or army selection, since the organizers are deciding what your generalship should be, and which troops you should take.  Total crap.


Maybe it was just a friendly warning? Perhaps there IS a composition-based scoring system...and Atch's list "scored" low enough to prompt a warning?  :?  I don't know...just speculating here.

Personally, if it is a legal list I say run it. I know I prefer certain styles over others...but in the end...run what you like to run and try to have the best time you can.

I will tell you that I did not get a message to "Tone Up" my list.  8)

The Village Idiot
Not too toned.

p.s. Hey Atch, would you post your list here in this thread so we can see what was so offensive,  :roll:  and what changes you made?
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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2005, 05:28:10 PM »
Might be too embarassing to post it.
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Offline The Village Idiot

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2005, 07:03:38 PM »
Quote from: Atchman
Might be too embarassing to post it.


It can't be as embarrassing as our game at Borderwars can it?  :lol:

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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2005, 07:09:10 PM »
I had one bad dice roll or it would have been a draw (failed panic test on my Greatswords).  Don't know what else to say......just don't expect mercy when you play my Skaven at the next one.  :)

BTW, I think we picked to have the next one is South Carolina again.  Any chance that you can talk to Stan about when would be a good time?

Of course it won't matter anyway, the trophy is safe and secure. :P
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Offline The Village Idiot

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2005, 06:44:48 PM »
Quote from: Atchman
...just don't expect mercy when you play my Skaven at the next one.  :)

OH! I see now! You were being MERCIFUL when you killed both my elector count and battle standard bearer with fire from your hellblaster and cannons!  :wink:

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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2005, 08:06:27 PM »
Hey guys, I'm getting close to being done with my Rat Horde!  Brad is helping out with my army base.
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Offline General Helstrom

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2005, 08:22:54 PM »
Good job Atch! I'd like to see some pictures... It's not OT if you do it :)
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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2005, 09:50:39 PM »
When I'm finished this weekend I'll post some pictures.
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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2005, 08:43:44 PM »
For those of you following my army's progress for the Necromicon I'm done with my forces.  They can be viewed here:

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/skpicturesnew2.htm


(Hopes he won't get banned from Warhammer Empire  :oops: )
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Offline General Helstrom

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2005, 08:55:33 PM »
Wow, they look great! Most Skaven armies tend to look too drybrush-brown-over-black for my tastes but your use of greens and blues makes it look really pretty. Great job Ratch!
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Offline Midaski

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2005, 08:41:08 AM »
Really nice Atch - as the General says a bit 'brighter' than your average rat :wink:

You can have the post without penalty - what you can't have is forum support - go TVI :tongue:

I am surprised you haven't got a character called "Grumble"  :wink:
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Offline Karl Schimmelfennig

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2005, 10:55:31 AM »
They do look very nice.

Nice choice of colours there RATchman. :lol:
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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2005, 02:50:58 PM »
Hey a further update!  Brad just finished up my new army base!!!!  Now I have a Bigrin original to go with my TVI original!

http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=8312
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Offline Atchman

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2005, 03:38:52 AM »
I'm back from the Neco, my battle report is posted over on the TWF.  I"ll repost it here for completeness.

Necromicon GT Report

Preview:


Well having decided fairly late to go and asking sheepish permission from “she who must be obeyed”, I resolved to play this tourney with a non-Empire army.  With a scant three months 278 rats appeared out of the RATch cave and my army was painted!  

The Trip:

Orlando is a pretty hefty drive from my home in Knoxville, TN.  However since we decided on a family vacation afterward, I had two other drivers, my teenage daughter Emily and my wife Leah.  Our four year old couldn’t drive, but she kept us “occupied” to say the least.  J  We arrived on late Friday afternoon and visited the hall, which was nice though ever so slightly cramped (mostly because of lots of big guys and some big gals).  When I arrived Nidal was beating up on another Orc army and we set a game for later that night.



My Skaven List:

Warlord Skar’s Clan

Warlord Skar RATchamon
Warlord, Halberd, Heavy Armor:  102 pts.

Assassin Fizzitt, Warpstone Stars :  155 pts.

Engineer Squawk
Condenser, Warp Blades, Accumulator, Dispel Scroll, Dispel Scroll: 135 pts

Engineer Querpa
Condenser, Warp Blades, Accumulator, Dispel Scroll, Storm Daemon :  135 pts.

Characters: 4 (527 pts)

Core Troops:
Iron Icons
25 Clan Rats. Standard, Musician, Warp Fire Thrower:  215 pts.

Rat Skullz
25 Clan Rats. Standard, Musician, Rattling Gun:  200 pts.

Humie Skullz
25 Clan Rats. Standard, Musician, Rattling Gun:  200 pts.

Goblin Killerz
25 Clan Rats. Standard, Musician:  140 pts.

20 Slaves, musician:  44 pts

20 Slaves, musician:  44 pts

20 Slaves, musician:  44 pts

20 Slaves, musician:  44 pts

5 Night Runners with Additional Hand Weapons:  35 pts

5 Night Runners with Additional Hand Weapons:  35 pts

5 Night Runners with Additional Hand Weapons:  35 pts

3 x Giant Rat Packs:  90 pts

3 x Giant Rat Packs: 90 pts

3 x Rat Swarms:  135 pts

Core Troops: 1351 pts.

12 Plague Monks with extra hand weapons:  96 pts.

5 x Gutter Runners Tunneling Team:  85 pts.

5 x Jezzails:  100 pts

Rare Troops:
5 x Plague Censer Bearers:  85 pts.


My Practice Game:

Nidal said before the game that it would have been a good batrep, and I’m certain it would have made a great one.  When I practice for GT games, I pull out his army list for the template and let our best players use it against me. I knew what to expect and had a plan to defeat it.  Though I’m sure my esteemed opponent will chime in later, I thought it was good tight game.  I lost for sure, but it wasn’t horrible.  I did have one of my famous dice throwing incidents, but I was good after that (it must be a Warmonger thing, only time I’ve thrown them at a GT is when I’m facing them).  I was solidly in the game for at least a draw when disaster happened, he failed an animosity test, on a unit that was facing the wrong way, rolled a “6” and charged my general’s unit in the flank!  The game was over then, I could not counter such a swing of fate.

I consoled myself later at the bar at Chili’s and thought that I really made no major mistakes in the game.  Deployment was really what cramped my style as my army must deploy wide to work and I was cramped in only about 36” of table top due to two large impassible hills in my deployment zone.  After all I had many more models than he did in his list so a wide deployment zone would have helped a lot.  It was my inability to kill his chariots and get “un-cramped” that did me in.  The animosity dice roll thing is one of those things that you remember, but you can’t feel bad about.  It should only happen once in thirty plus games right? (We’ll see)


Game One:    Tristan Young Dark Elves

I’ve got to admit I wasn’t my sharpest.  For some reason the car trip, along with my arthritic knees got me out of sorts for some reason (maybe it was the drugs).  However, I arrived at my table to find Tristan Young, a very nice young man was a big smile.  

 
Since no one in the Knoxville area has Dark Elves, I’m not all that familiar with them, so Tristan explained his army to me and helped me along the way.  I don’t remember if I went first or second but I think he may have given me the first turn.  The ruins we played like Woods so they could block LOS and prevent easy movement.  

Tristan had horrible luck with his stupidity tests for his Cold One units.  I don’t know if he ever passed one before I charged into him.  My assassin, night runners, clan rats, slaves; etc conspired to destroy his right flank.  On his left flank, I send two rat packs and two more units of knight runners.  He moved his Dark Riders too far forward, probably not realizing the 12” charge of the Rat Packs.  On that flank the Rat Packs and Night runners ended up destroying his Dark Rides, Crossbows, and his Bolt Thrower.  In the middle my shooting and magic was doing horrible things.  Tristan was defense light (only had a caddy) that I blew through early in the game.  This provoked him to advance and I did a flee and flank on his General’s unit destroying it.  After that the game was pretty much over (it was turn four).  Tristan never stopped smiling.  He admitted this was his first tournament and he was there to play for fun. Since he was smiling the entire weekend I guess that meant he did!  




Game Two: Casey Cronin (Savage Orcs)

My old foe Casey Cronin!  When Casey and I play it is a contest to see who has the most miserable dice.  I think he has beaten me every game I’ve ever played him and this one was no different.  He had an army that was mostly Savage Orcs.  The game was enjoyable regardless of the outcome.  I’ve always liked his painting scheme and think it is the best-painted Orc army I’ve seen at a US GT.  It doesn’t have the conversions and such, but the painting is just super smooth and nice.  

Casey piled one of his Savage Orc Boar units down my right flank.  I eventually destroyed this unit but I lost an intact clan rat unit to a world famous Atchman roll of “11” for panic.  (Remember a Skaven army is almost always Leadership 10 around the General).  In the middle I set him back a bit by panicking his Ogres.  However the buggers rallied and later helped win the game for him.  

On my Left, I held up his General’s unit of Boarboyz, destroying them to an Orc.  His Chariots finally all died (should have taken more Jezzails or another rattler instead of that stupid WFT).  I thought I had the game in hand until disaster struck.  He defeated some unit with his General and rolled an EIGHTEEN to hit my General’s unit in the front!  Add to this another dice rolling “event” a failed animosity on a unit of Savage Orc infantry that was standing with his flank to an intact unit of Clan Rats. I thought to myself this game is over.  I think he probably thought that as well.  He then proceeded to roll a damned SIX (just like Nidal) and charged and broke my Clan Rats.  Add to this his Ogres broke my Rat Pack and pursued right into the flank of my General’s unit.  One turn, huge swing, huge loss, pure luck!  What can you say?  

The game was a real nail biter.  My stupidity was that I blocked where my Jezzails would go and couldn’t shoot them on the first turn.  Perhaps that would have made a difference perhaps not.  My Swarms did what I wanted with them, charging his General’s unit in the flank and holding them up most of the game.  It was this game where I realized that perhaps I had nerfed the magic a little much because I couldn’t get any spells to work despite having a slight edge.  Also I made the mistake of bouncing a mage out of a unit.  Casey tactical charged some night runners, breaking them, and pursued into my mage.  Stupid mistake on my part, but we’ve kinda given up on tactical charges at home so not too much of a mistake. It was also this game where I realized why in the world would you EVER take a Warp Fire Thrower?  It is as much of a hazard to your own army as it is to your foes!  

Oh well, well earned win for Casey who would finish with four wins and only one loss.  

Game Three:  John Adams (Brets)



I had kidded Tim Walker (aka TVI) about this Bret army that I saw and said, “that army would be your bane”.  So which army do I play next; that one!  
 
The army was an Errantry list in all of its wrongness.  It was backed up by six Pegasus Knights (maybe it was four; whatever) and a General on a Hippogriff.  Sure I made some mistakes, but I had nothing that could hurt these guys.  It was mostly the Pegasus Knights and the Hippogriff that got me.  The Knights I did pretty well to negate, but I just couldn’t stop all of his stuff.  In retrospect, I should have just castled up and shot and prayed, but I thought I could flank his lances.  As you can see by the picture, I was again cramped by terrain. What you don’t see is there is even more terrain just off to the right side of the picture.  

To be honest the guy just ran over me.  Nothing worked right for me at all.  I did learn while playing how to defeat this type of list, or at least formulated a strategy on how to defeat them.  

In the aftermath, I’m sure I got a zero sports.  However, I gave John my first zero comp score ever at a tourney.  I gave him an average game and the max painting score.  I didn’t have a problem with the game; just his army list was oppressive.  Yes I whined, but I suspect that part of it was because I had one too many malted beverages. J  
End of the First Day

Okay I was bummed that I had the worst first day I’ve ever had at a GT.  I played two mostly cavalry armies and lost both games.  This was where I regretted the changing of my army list.  I needed the extra magic and shooting against these armies.  

I must say that my funk didn’t last long as I enjoyed a fun evening with my family at Medieval Times.  The irony of watching guys on horses after getting run over by them earlier in the day was not realized until I woke up the next morning.  I finally recovered from my trip and felt a lot more rested and relaxed.  

Game Four:  Charles Engrasser (Brets)



So what would make your day?  To realize that you had to play your third mostly cavalry army in a row!  Oh well I thought, I have learned my lessons and had a better plan this time.  No one around my home place plays mostly cavalry and it was obviously a hole in my playing education.  

I just knew that Charles would roll straight through my army with his stuff.  He had a lance of each type I think, Grails, Questing, KotR, two units of fast cavalry and a unit of archers.  A little small for a tourney army, then I found out that he had a huge number of magic dice.  I think he may have had 10 dice of Life Magic, the total bane of a Skaven army.  Of course I got the first turn due to praying.  I had deployed smart this time with the Slaves well forward and the Clan Rats just behind.  My fast stuff shot down both flanks. Charles didn’t move his first turn content to blast me with magic and pulled two of my scrolls!  However this gave me the chance to get in even better position to receive his charges.  

On the next turn basically his entire army charged.  My shooting had dropped the Grail Knights down to three models.  Using classic Skaven flee and flank tactics, I trapped his army in the “Circle of Doom” and destroyed it in detail.  Charles if you read this, all you had to do was move forward on turn one and charged me on turn two, I think you would have wiped me out.  

Really his list was pretty nasty, but not as oppressive as I thought.  At least he didn’t have a Hippogriff!  I gave Charles the high score on painting, average comp (no Hippogriff), and I don’t recall the sports, but it was favorable score.  

Game Five:  Darren Doyle (Lizardmen)



Okay I had a chance to get my first three win GT.  That was kinda what I set out to do, I just didn’t realize it would come at the expense of two losses.  I saw that Darren has some sort of strange looking Lizardmen army.  I then realized it was a Lustria list.  The scenario was a meeting engagement where you had to deploy from the march.  This totally nerfed his army and didn’t hurt mine in the least as I just numbered my units and setup in my checkerboard.  

I didn’t realize there were that many poison swarms in the entire world.  I think there was fifteen swarm bases!  He also had a small unit of Saurus Warriors, and a big Skink Cohort.  He told me before the game that parts of his army caused fear in Skaven and had hatred!  What were the organizers doing to me?  I think it was a Skaven hating plot.  :shock:    :D

I pressed him hard on both flanks.  My army is insanely hard to flank especially when I leave skirmishers behind my lines to attack things that break through.  He thought he could bust my small Plague Monk unit.  The Monks had other ideas and totally destroyed the Terradons over two turns.  This allowed my Assassin and Gutter Runners to move behind his Skink Cohort with his BSB and Priest.  On turn three I think, I passed my fear tests and charged him in the rear with my Eshin troops, knowing even if he won melee he would have to pursue leaving his back open to a Clan Rat unit.  My Eshin troops must hate Skinks because they killed 8 of them, with the rear bonus and casualties, and despite the BSB the unit ran and was scattered by my Assassin.  

In the middle it was kill the swarms.  It took until turn five to destroy them all!  

His special character blew through unit after unit until he hit the Clan Rat unit on the hill.  I held him for two turns until he broke them.  I could have charged into them, but having seen them take down three units, I decided to be a coward.  On the previous turn, my shooting and magic had destroyed the Salamanders.  So all he had left was the Special Character and a single Saurus warrior.  On my turn six, I destroyed the swarms that protected his character with concentrated magic and rattler fire.  On his turn Six he charged my General’s unit and challenged Warlord Skar. Warlord Skar isn’t a warlord for nothing and he retreated to the place of Skaven honor the rear rank!  

Final Record:  Three overwhelming wins, two overwhelming losses

Thoughts:


The best thought was I enjoyed the Necro more than any other GT I’ve attended.  For certain, I’ll pass up the GW events and go to more Indy Tournaments.  They are everything that the GW events aren’t.  Can’t say enough about the staff, the location, nice terrain, fair rules interpretations, etc.  Just plain fantastic!  

A bonus to the event was getting to chat with old friends, meet some online friends, and just generally have a great time.

Army List:

In retrospect I wish I had tweaked the list a little more toward eliminating the cavalry threat.  The two rattlers I had were plenty of regular shooting.   I doubt my WFT will ever see the field in a tournament battle again.  I did one wound I think the entire tournament with it.  I’m pretty sure I’m going to replace it with four Jezzails.  

My Eshin contingent played pretty well.  I wish now that I had combined them into two units and just had larger units.  The Gutter Runners are so good against soft targets they are just wrong.  They would kill sometimes triple their points!  

The Core troops were perfect.  I think that the four Clan Rat units, four Slave units, and two Rat packs were an awesome combination for me at least.  Probably another unit of Clan Rats and Slaves would have been better.  The speed of the Rat Packs was valuable in several games.  

My special choices of the Plague Monk, Jezzails and Gutter Runners were rock solid.  As I said above a few more Jezzails wouldn’t have been overpowering against most armies but would have made my list much more powerful against the Cavalry armies.  

Plague Censers made up my only rare choice. They did pretty decent throughout the tournament.  The highlight was destroying a unit of Grail Knights by themselves with a timely flank charge.

The rest of my characters were good.  I missed having that third mage in the games against the Cavalry armies, but the assassin was fantastic in all of the other games.  

Retrospective:

I'm going to tweak my list a bit more, save up some $$$$, and head back next year.  I consider this a can't miss event!  Go you'll love it; just leave my comp score alone.   :)
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Offline BAWTRM

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(Slightly OT) from the TVI Tourney Prep Thread
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2005, 04:02:50 PM »
Personally I dread WFTs, that Panic test it forces isn't something the Empire likes!

Thanks for the report and congrats on improving your record!
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