Warhammer-Empire.com
Imperial Artisans ... The Painters, Crafters & Writers Guilds => The Brush and Palette => Topic started by: Shadespyre on October 07, 2018, 01:10:41 PM
-
In amongst my many, many miniatures I have this little lot...
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01360_zpsdn77uyhs.jpg)
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01362_zps8m5p87pi.jpg)
Those are all old Citadel Orcs, right back from the Fantasy Tribes range from the early 80s. Absolute crackers. I've got maybe 200 of them, though quite a lot need repairs as the weapons are quite fragile.
I quite fancy doing an "Oldhammer" army in 3rd edition style (I blame ZeroTwentyThree for this). There's a few hurdles with using these minis, though...
1 - they don't fit the army list too well (lots of heavy armoured and unarmoured models, no cavalry or chariots or war machines to speak of)
2 - lack of musicians and standard bearers - these really are minis designed for D&D, not for Warhammer!
3 - goblins - there were four or five styles of goblins in this era, which should I use?
4 - goblins again - just try collecting any number of goblins from this era, they are shockingly rare and expensive
An alternative project would be to use some of these guys to make a less wargamesy more RPGy Orc force, which is what they were really designed for and frees me from worrying about any of those issues...
Any thoughts anyone has are welcome. I won't even think about starting anything till Christmas anyway.
-
I would go rpg style and have at it. I envy your organizational skills to a high degree 😸
-
I don't care what you do with them but you better do something with them. Those old orcs are awesome! I never appreciated how cool they were until I got a hold of some of my own.
I of course encourage using them for a 3rd edition army. There's no reason you have to stick strictly to the 3rd edition Warhammer Armies book, the beauty of the old editions is their purposeful open ended format.
As far as the lack of musicians and standards, I know what you mean. I think the only slotta base Orc musician and standard I've seen are the ones that came with the Harboth and the Black Mountain Boys regiment of renown.
But your Orcs with broken weapons might be usefully converted into standards and musicians.
http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-ol-rusty-axe-gang-pt-2.html (http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-ol-rusty-axe-gang-pt-2.html)
-
I have most of those in the first pic. Had em since the early 80s. They hardly ever get onto the table now. They're great.
-
http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-ol-rusty-axe-gang-pt-2.html (http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-ol-rusty-axe-gang-pt-2.html)
Thanks for the link! It's nice to see that they paint up well - older minis can be a little hard to get the best out of, I find. I do actually have a small regiment of the old Harboth's, as it happens.
It seems there's some enthusiasm for this project. Mind you, if I posted some of my other possible Old Minis projects, you'd be enthusiastic about those, too! :icon_wink: Maybe I'll sort myself out one regiment to paint up, and see how I get on with them?
-
I think some of mine can be seen here, manning ('orcing'?) some swivel guns ...
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i49/padrissimus/TileaCampaign/GSvGSBat5_zpsc2dfdfd1.jpg)
-
I love 'em! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
I have some older goblins that I once base coated, and this is inspiring me to dig them out and get them painted. Course fi I could just get my 6 mounted crossbow dudes done first. :icon_lol:
-
Quote GP:
I have some older goblins that I once base coated, and this is inspiring me to dig them out and get them painted. Course fi I could just get my 6 mounted crossbow dudes done first. :icon_lol:
You do realize, these 6 crossbowmen could well be your albatross about your neck. We will not let you forget 😸
-
I have other crossbowmen that need finishing too, but ... it's the 6 mounted crossbowmen that I need to finish. :icon_wink:
-
they will be cool no matter what you use them for :::cheers:::
-
I should possibly also admit that I am strongly considering painting these not-green... consider yourselves warned! :icon_mrgreen:
-
I should possibly also admit that I am strongly considering painting these not-green... consider yourselves warned! :icon_mrgreen:
I am surprisingly open minded about the color of "greenskins"; browns, oranges, purples or whatever are all fair game imo. Goblinoids is probably the better term over greenskins.
-
Agree👆
-
If I recall, during my early rpg days Orcs were red, goblins were green, and kobolds were black.
-
Woohoo! Excited to see this project.
I should possibly also admit that I am strongly considering painting these not-green... consider yourselves warned! :icon_mrgreen:
:::cheers::: Looking forward to this as well.
I agree with orcboy's comment above, in terms of adapting/converting other minis to standards and musicians. Even with "newer" old minis, like the Jes Goodwin/3rd. ed. Skaven, I ended up doing a lot of that.
As far as a 3rd ed. army, and the lists...
(https://i.imgur.com/DbBqTAm.gif)
Fudge it. Adapt it. You don't need all the bells and whistles... or, if you really want them, convert or find some appropriate equivalents! :wink:
-
The original Citadel Colour paints included Orc Brown and Hobgoblin Orange alongside Goblin Green and Ghoul Grey.
I think Kev Adams may even have invented green goblinoids (outside of The Green Goblin, I guess!)?
The original Monster Manual has orcs as "brown or brownish green" with a "bluish sheen" and "pinkish snouts and ears" - these re your pig-faced style orcs, though. Why GW broke ranks with the AD&D orc picture I don't know. Meanwhile Goblins are yellow / orange / brick red in colour, and hobgoblins reddish brown with orange-red faces. So there!
-
The original Citadel Colour paints included Orc Brown and Hobgoblin Orange alongside Goblin Green and Ghoul Grey.
I think Kev Adams may even have invented green goblinoids (outside of The Green Goblin, I guess!)?
The original Monster Manual has orcs as "brown or brownish green" with a "bluish sheen" and "pinkish snouts and ears" - these re your pig-faced style orcs, though. Why GW broke ranks with the AD&D orc picture I don't know. Meanwhile Goblins are yellow / orange / brick red in colour, and hobgoblins reddish brown with orange-red faces. So there!
Shadespre is right. Until the 70's or 80's, Orc's were usually depicted with brownish skin but for whatever reason, Games workshop started painting them green which gave birth to greenskins as we know them today
-
Started looking for your undead plog, but got lazy pretty quick. Going to post this here. It made me think of your army...
https://www.facebook.com/warploqueminiatures/photos/a.316049728443163/1889399017774885/?type=3&source=57
-
Ah, nice. He'd go well with my conversion of their Unithorn.
-
Padre, how did you get those swivel guns? I have a particular purpose in mind for which such pieces would suit nicely.
-
I got them from a model shop - the kind that does model railways and remote control cars and (most importantly) model ships - including the ones you make from scratch with balsa etc. They're little brass barrels, which come in various sizes (different scales &/or different sized guns). I built the stands and mounts from bits of wood & sprue & pins and what not.
Can't remember the make etc, and the shop is long since shut (the internet killed it, plus the fact that the owners' son didn't want to run it when his dad died) but the following links, if they work for you, give an idea ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Artesania-Latina-CANNONS-BRASS/dp/B003TQOE72/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1540069549&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=small+brass+cannon
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CANNON-FOR-SAILING-SHIPS-HISTORICAL-BARREL-HB1501-AKKURA-/361494081157?hash=item542ab9ee85
-
This sort of thing ...
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ylkAAOxydB1Sk7xH/s-l1600.jpg)
-
Nice non-canon cannon interlude there...
Goblins!
3 - goblins - there were four or five styles of goblins in this era, which should I use?
4 - goblins again - just try collecting any number of goblins from this era, they are shockingly rare and expensive
Citadel Goblins 1979-1983. It's actually a bit of a mess, with models of different styles being introduced all over, and old models being kept in production alongside them. Even the early C series range is a mess. It's not until 1984, or arguably even the mid 80s and slotta bases, that Citadel actually get all their models ranges into order. Goblins are as good / bad example of this mess as any.
Fiend Factory Goblins c1979
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01409_zpszy9gjsk3.jpg)
I think these are the earliest. I always think of these as "Eastern" goblins because of their little hats, and because the broken spears once had long naginata-like blades . They are very dapper, orderly looking chaps, as Warhammer goblins go - but these are pre-Warhammer, D&D goblins. I think if they were human sized they'd make great AD&D Hobgobs. The wolf shield motif is nice.
Fantasy Tribes Gnolls / Goblins c1981
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01408_zpsoc7r7nuh.jpg)
Yes kids, these were gnolls until 1982. Nope, I dunno.
I split the picture to show the main variation here, namely the bat-ears on some of the models, which I personally think are great. The small-eared chaps at the top also have a tendency to bushy eyebrows, which honestly makes them look quite gnomish...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/D%26DSvirfneblin.png)
Quite alot of this range are mail armoured, and there is a Norman theme to their helmets and even some kite shields (as were prevalent on the Fantasy Tribes Dwarves)
Fiend Factory Orcs / Half-Orcs / Red Goblins c1982
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01407_zpsb1zt9xp7.jpg)
Absolute naming chaos. Looking very little like anything else in the goblin ranges, these were the only Wolf riders you could buy until about 1987 I think! (Gnolls / Great Goblins were all riding Boars at this time). There were some infantry figures in the same style, but don't trouble yourselves with those.
C13 Night Goblins c 1983
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01411_zps9kkpmmkk.jpg)
These will look more familiar - everyone's favourite robe wearing Night Goblins appear. Of course, at this time, they were bundled in with the "Eastern" style goblins pictured earlier and also some guys who are much more akin to what we now think of as a GW Goblin.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT - the "what are the correct goblins to use with early Orcs" problem.
-
Interesting! I recall seeing some of these as a youngster, and good to see them again. :icon_cool:
-
More hurdles! Replacement weapons. I'm going to need lots of weapons for repairing these orcs. One option is to make moulds from the originals and copy them. Let's call this the hard option! An easier option would be to source new parts. If anyone has any suggestions for weapons, especially scimitars like these, in metal or plastic or even resin, that'd be useful.
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01462_zpsrel8sgsz.jpg)
-
Various old GW skeleton boxes had similar scimitars and axes. They might be too big, though. And hard to get.
Maybe some historical Asiatic warriors have fitting weapons, if you can source some leftovers from fellow hobbyists?
-Z
-
The old plastic skellies are a good call, I'll keep an eye out on ebay.
-
A solution to the no-musicians problem?
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01630_zpskghkw44s.jpg)
I like this because there is no damage at all to the original model - it's half an hour in stripper away from a return to normal. And so I've scoured ebay and picked up 5 of these!
-
Works perfectly.
For some reason I interpret that Orc as female.
-
Me too! It's got a different errrm "chest shape" from the rest of the range, certainly. Never seen it officially described as female, though.
-
Trial Orc: Brown
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01681_zpsjimkg4kp.jpg)
Steel Legion Drab + Tallarn Flesh highlight + Earthshade Wash
Maybe a little pinker than I envisaged, also slightly worried this will blend into wood and clothing colours? But any thoughts appreciated!
-
Looks good so far.
So long as you stick to darker browns I wouldn't too much about colors blending in.
-
Orc fashion?
"Orcs prefer to wear colors that most humans think unpleasant: blood red, rust red, mustard yellow, yellow green, moss green, greenish purple, and blackish brown. Their armor is unattractive besides—dirty and often a bit rusty."
I'm thinking of trying much paler wood colours than I normally choose. I quite like the idea of having brown skinned orcs wearing a lot of green, so I'll see how that works...
-
The old plastic skellies are a good call, I'll keep an eye out on ebay.
I can see if I've got any left over from my recent project, but I fear its probably all scythes.
I like the brown. I dont think that a lack of contrast would necessarily be bad. More like a filthy unwahsed horde.
The drummer conversion is simple yet brilliant. I imagine that once its painted you'll never notice it is a conversion.
-
On the plus side, if I end up buying more of the old skeletons just to steal the scimitars then I know where to send the remains... ;) not a priority as I have lots of orcs I could paint before I get to those.
I think unwashed horde is what I'm looking for. I'm thinking of keeping the colours to a limited palette of what could be natural plant dyes, so maybe some pale colours but not too bright. Sloshed some brown-yellows, off greens and a nice russet around last night and I like how it looks.
-
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01698_zpsm7cofrxc.jpg)
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01700_zpsv1wvfsns.jpg)
-
Now that the other colors have been added, they are starting to look more towards the color of human skin. And not complaining.
-
I found a single scimitar... guess I've burned through my stash. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I really like them. and I'm fond of the unwashed horde look. I never won any awards for my Skaven, which were also painted earthy & filthy, but I personally think it suits both armies.
I'm digging the flesh color even more seeing them in a small group. Between the sculpts and the paint, they look like a meeting point halfway between GW aesthetics and Tolkein's. Satisfying to two fandoms at once.
-
Now that the other colors have been added, they are starting to look more towards the colour of human skin. And not complaining.
I washed out the photos a little, but I suspect you're right. I want to tone down the pinkness a little, keeping it more to the highlights and I think only on the faces. I think a photo next to some of my human models would probably show more contrast. Probably finishing the bases will add more colour balance, too. I need to settle on a direction for those (I'm thinking scrubby hills, but with a D&D monster there is always the temptation to go dungeon corridor!).
I'm also not sure about plain wooden shields - I like the functionality of it but it's an opportunity for extra colour and a hint of uniform which may otherwise be missing. Most of the sculpted shields on this range sport the crescent moon design, so that may become universal (probably crudely painted onto the flat wooden shields).
I'm digging the flesh color even more seeing them in a small group. Between the sculpts and the paint, they look like a meeting point halfway between GW aesthetics and Tolkein's. Satisfying to two fandoms at once.
Exactly what I want to hear, thanks! :icon_smile:
-
10 Crossbow Orcs
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01742_zps2btxqxq7.jpg)
Quite possibly these are looted weapons rather than orc made, as they are quite rare in the army list.
-
I think the skin color is interesting in that it seems to look slightly different with the different colors of their clothing.
-
I agree. I wonder if the depth of the detail is also helping wirh that.
They look good!
-
They're great! Now, simply produce a whole army of them and you will enter WFB heaven!
-
Well, I'm enjoying it so far so let's push on. I've based and undercoated the following...
about 16 of the sword and shield orcs
about 15 orcs with pole arms
about 20 or archers
a few converted drummers
and a tribe of trolls! ( those will be my reserve option for if brown orcs get a little tiresome - but what colour will they be? :? )
-
Paint them brown.
And don't flock the bases, instead make it look like they're all fighting on brown mud.
Anything they carry or wear that isn't brown, assume it is filthy and smeared with mud. So paint that brown too.
Fifty shades of Brown!
-
Hahaha! Starting to sound a bit like my Beastmen army... :icon_lol:
Working on the swords-orcs at the moment. I wanted to add a bit more variety to the cloth colours, so I've thrown in some more neutral tones. Actually, this seems like a good moment to jot down some paint colours for later reference...?
Brown Orc Skin - Steel Legion Drab / Tallarn Flesh
Orc Teeth - Kommando Khaki
Orc Eyes - Dwarf Flesh
Wood - Baneblade Brown
Dark Leather - Charadon Granite
Steel - Ironbreaker
Cloth - Skrag Brown, Bubonic Brown, Zandri Dust, Dryad Bark
- Adeptus Battlegrey, Gretchin Green, Knarloc Green
- Hormagaunt Purple, Mephiston Red
Probably not much use to anyone else but you never know...
Had a quick look ahead at trolls - classic AD&D trolls are grey to moss green, often mottled, and with iron grey or greenish black hair, apparently. I've got a really old pot of Ghoul Grey which might be getting a last hurrah, I think!
-
Having a few issues with the photobucket editor again, so I hope these come out ok.
Here's a unit of swords-orcs, complete with converted drummer. I left a space for a future standard bearer...
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/0001_zpspfxbnibr.jpg)
And here are some future standard bearers. Having so many broken orcs gives me lots of guilt-free conversion opportunities!
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/orcs%201_zps6xbe3h7q.jpg)
No idea what might end up on these poles at the moment!
-
:icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
And now some archers
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/0001_zpsrhvui41d.jpg)
-
Filthy dirty and nekkid - three test Trolls - yes, three of them, cos why not?
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/0001_zpseuifmdpw.jpg)
Black eyes are from the AD&D description. They kinda work but I can't help thinking the faces would benefit from more visible eyes, so I might revisit that.
Still unable to use the photobucket pic editor, and everything seems to be coming out greener than usual? Maybe this army really wants to be green? ;) Ironically enough, I used Orchide Shade for the green hair on these guys.
-
Army list, anyone?
Using the Orcs and Goblins list from Warhammer Armies (I guess this is 3rd Ed?). Will be dumping the cartoon terminology for something "classier", and I plan to copy 023s lovely army list entries eventually.
Painted:
Orc Hero (Level 5) – Great Weapon, Heavy Armour 38 points
18 Orc “Boyz” – Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield Standard Bearer, Musician 170 points
10 Orc “Arrer Boyz” – Bow, Hand Weapon, Light Armour 95 points
10 Orc “Arrer Boyz” – Crossbow, Hand Weapon, Light Armour 115 points
3 Trolls - Hand Weapon 195 points
(613 points)
Assembled:
10 Orc “Arrer Boyz” – Bow, Hand Weapon, Light Armour 95 points
16 Orc “Big Uns” - Great Weapon, Light Armour, Shield Standard Bearer, Musician 207 points
5 Trolls - Hand Weapon 325 points
(627 points)
Errrm, what's the "normal" size for a 3rd Ed army? Because that's 1250 points already and you *know* I've hardly started...
-
Warhammer Armies 3rd edition recommended 3000 pt armies.
-
I like the trolls' black eyes ... but as for the other 'bits' ... :icon_redface:
-
Yup, now you know why they cause Fear! And maybe what they're up to when they fail Stupidity... :icon_eek:
3000 points eh? I should do some forward planning. Got some big ticket items and some weird stuff to fit in, too.
-
... and some weird stuff to fit in, too.
You're fitting what in where now? Considering what you've already shown us, you have me worried!
-
Hmmm, well, that would be telling... :icon_eek:
More Orcs for now... counts as "Big Uns"
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/0001_zps59okw7i0.jpg)
Adding command to these units (remember, that wasn't a thing at one point) has made them funny sizes, so I may need to get a few more off ebay to tidy them up, later.
-
Well done on the trolls! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
-
Thanks, the rest of the troll tribe coming soon. Including mummy troll, baby troll, troll actually wearing shorts and umm kinky whip troll I'M SORRY OKAY!? :icon_eek:
-
The rest of the Troll Tribe. Don't say I didn't warn you...
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01813_zpsmktlfbhj.jpg)
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01811_zpsz102mla4.jpg)
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01815_zpshezxsrpv.jpg)
-
Those trolls are awesome! I am a little disturbed by the whip fella's belt buckle though, Tom Meier's early work can sure be... cheeky.
Thanks, the rest of the troll tribe coming soon. Including mummy troll, baby troll, troll actually wearing shorts and umm kinky whip troll I'M SORRY OKAY!? :icon_eek:
For some reason I now have that baby shark song stuck in my head now.
-
I spared you the close up. :icon_eek:
To be honest it gets worse the more you think about it. Why is the troll dressed like that? Many of the trolls aren't bothered with clothes. Is it his choice? Did someone dress him that way? and who conceived of this outfit, let alone manufactured it? Surely that's not troll workmanship?
The inescapable conclusion from this mini is that someone, some non-Troll, woke up one morning and thought, "What the world needs is more sexy trolls in bondage gear!" and set the wheels in motion...
-
Ha! I would be a little more concerned about the troll 2 to the left. I think you can get arrested for that sort of stuff 😺
-
You mean the one with the sack full of legs, or the one carrying the naked human lady around by her hair (another scenario which I don't think the sculptor thought through? Maybe I should email Tom and ask him!)
-
You mean the one with the sack full of legs, or the one carrying the naked human lady around by her hair (another scenario which I don't think the sculptor thought through? Maybe I should email Tom and ask him!)
Even crazier! This lot is not up to today’s code lol 😺
-
10 more Orc Archers completed, so that's about 1240 points painted so far (everything on the previous list!)
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/0001_zpspmwzlhdo.jpg)
Not sure what to do next - I've got one more unit of ordinary orcs ready to go, then it's down to lots and lots of broken models and how to repair them.
-
I didn't feel like painting at the weekend, so I set to work on some repairs. I used most of the spare empire parts I could find to replace missing weapons, so now I have about 20 "Orcs Swinging Axe" armed with a mixture of axes, swords, White Wolf hammers and those spiky militia clubs. Not sure if these will form their own unit or just get mixed in with others for variety. Also: repaired some spears, knees, hands and teeth; made a couple more standard bearers; did a couple of more complicated weapon swaps. All in all added maybe 35 Orcs to the pile to paint?
I don't know about timescales, but I think my next tranche of minis will be something like:
15 orcs with hand weapon and shield and command
20 orcs with hand weapon and command
10 "black orcs" (I think this is how I'll represent the biggest, baddest, heaviest armoured minis)
That should be close to another 500-600 points, but I haven't worked it out yet. That'd make roughly 60% of 3000 points, so probably enough "rank and file". That leaves 1/5 for characters and 1/5 for artillery etc (which is where I'll be getting imaginative...)
It also looks like I can achieve 3000 points without goblins, which is kinda cool but also feels like a wasted opportunity...
-
Do a separate goblin army! :engel:
Enjoying these old orcs, and the more we get to see the more I really like your orc flesh color. Going to be a cool looking army. :::cheers:::
-
If I can get the miniatures I want, then I now plan to do a small, separate Goblin army, which could also be dropped in as a section of the Orc army or used as an allied force if desired. I think it'll look even less like a modern Goblin army than this looks like a modern Orc army! It'll be based around the old models and a couple of conversion ideas I had which are too good to waste.
I'm glad you like the army, because I'm loving working on it. Some of the models are in poor shape - broken or not cast very well - but they are worth the work. The sheer variety found in each "identical" pose , mostly different heads and little gear tweaks, is umatched in any other mini range I've worked with.
Working away on the r&f at the moment, the rules busting / departing from the FTO models section of the project is on its way...
-
Some old Kev Adams goblins ……….
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/656177818/goblins?mc_cid=f15aa5481e&mc_eid=b7075f6c19
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/023/941/032/02633b6a332354f3b7b304ace51b0be0_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1548879514&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=b2771d210138ca37a7bcfa14c01337b3)
-
I may be in the minority, but I don't care for most of Kev Adams goblins beyond the '80s. Like the trend with orcs (usually by other sculptors) his goblins steadily got larger, bulkier and the poses got stiffer. Just my preference, but I like the old gangly orcs & goblins. (Which is part of why I'm digging this orc project.)
I know there's been a number of retro/oldhammer sculpting and casting projects, I keep waiting for a "gangly O&G" one to appear.
-
I may be in the minority, but I don't care for most of Kev Adams goblins beyond the '80s. Like the trend with orcs (usually by other sculptors) his goblins steadily got larger, bulkier and the poses got stiffer. Just my preference, but I like the old gangly orcs & goblins. (Which is part of why I'm digging this orc project.)
I know there's been a number of retro/oldhammer sculpting and casting projects, I keep waiting for a "gangly O&G" one to appear.
I agree with you. I had always assumed the citadel goblins from the 80's were from a different designer then from the 90's stuff. It was only later I found they were all Kevin's work. I suspect Kevin's earlier Orcs and Goblins were trying to copy these Perry brothers Fantasy Tribes orcs style.
But his goblins (both Citadel others) and from the 90's have grown on me a little bit but outside of his goblins for Knightmare Games I haven't been interested in most of his goblins through the aughts.
Im talking goblins though, his 90's Orcs haven't grown on me an never will I don't think (except his Black Orcs).
Regarding the BTD "Harlequin" goblins Kickstarter. I'm always a little suspicious of BTD or EOE or whatever it is they call themselves now. For example I'm pretty sure those aren't the original greens he's showing off in the kickstarter pic, you can see the paint strokes and bare metal coming through on the banner. So why is he presenting these to us as if they are the greens?
@Shadespyre I love the work you are doing here and the skin tone choice is perfect. I have a unit of the the FT orcs with bows but haven't had the courage to paint them. Seeing your work is getting me inspired.
-
Some old Kev Adams goblins ……….
Cute, but nowhere near old enough in style for what I'm doing. Or rather hoping to do, in the case of goblins.
Re: greens - these models have plainly been painted green to look like greens. It's probably nothing "dodgy", just to try to look tidier - most sculptors re-use bits from other models and incorporate them and other bits of metal and plastic in their sculpts. If you look at, for example, Darksword, their greens all show brass rod and bits of plasticard and recycled metal swordblades etc in their green pictures. Tom Meier doesn't spend hours rolling out perfectly round straight wizard's staves, you know... :wink:
-
I hope these look okay - the Photobucket editing system has completely changed, but at least it does now work. However I have to discover a whole new set of "standard" settings to get my photos looking as I expect!
Here's two new orcs, one an addition to a previous unit, and the other my second repair / conversion of the same hero. When I've painted the "original" one I have you can compare all three together.
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsoawsdlzv.png)
And here's this month's Orc regiment:
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/DSC01987_zpsoqzk5c6p.jpg)
A little Orc fatigue starting to set in now, time to paint some more non-orc parts of the project perhaps? Time to check the Monster Manual descriptions of some more classic beasts...
-
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpshivziuqk.png)
FTO-13 - Orc Riding Giant War-Wyvern
We have a different idea of what "Giant" constitutes nowadays! I'm not sure what to count this as, rules wise? It barely deserves that 50mm square base, and fans of Ye Olde Citadel Miniatures will guess that there's a rather bigger model to follow...
Oh, finished the second of these now:
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsqtiqhemy.png)
-
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsoawsdlzv.png)
I love the halberd conversion/repair on the armored orc, it looks so perfect.
-
Thanks, it was quite a lot more work than I expected but I'm happy with how it came out.
-
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsqazwffcd.png)
Red Goblin Wolf Rider - test model - comments welcome!
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpseuqfdwwd.png)
-
I love it. I like the work around the eyes, it helps bring out some features.
These old red orcs always remind me of the 1980's actor Michael Berryman.
-
Glad you like him. The faces are pretty featureless, I think I need to do more to suggest a mouth but I'm also trying not to make him look like a clown! Some of the other models have a bit more definition, so maybe painting one of those will be a good guide. The main thing at this point is I think I'm happy with the colours
-
Not sure I'd call him an orc, he looks different, and wondering where that figure came from, he's cool. :::cheers:::
-
These are still old Citadel Miniatures of about the same age (1982 release). They were originally labelled as "Red Orcs" but were later sold as "Half Orcs" and "Red Goblins". They are way smaller than any orc model... much more sensible to count them as Goblins.
-
He does look more like a goblin, especially since being on a wolf. The whole figure looks like they mean business. :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:
-
I'm hoping a dozen or so of these fellas will look pretty badass, at least as badass as little goblins can be! :icon_twisted:
They're obviously not (closely) related to the orcs, I think they're a semi-nomadic tribe working as mercenaries and scouts - look at all the luggage he's carrying around. Plus, the severed heads are very much a theme. Maybe they get a bounty per head?
-
I like the idea of them being a semi-nomadic. And that your goblins will be red, excellent, looking forward to seeing more! :::cheers:::
-
More Red Goblins
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsrre8ea19.png)
I'm growing very fond of these little guys now, I might even have to chase down some of the infantry models. Also this completes my first March goal already!
Can't stop painting at the moment, mostly because it's more fun than all the other tasks I'm putting off... I'm going to launch into my remaining armoured orcs, a motley collection that I think will be chieftains or similar, forming a small elite unit which I'll maybe count as Black Orcs.
Also, I did a quick count, and I have too many orcs for 3000 points. Should I just carry on painting or should I draw a line when I hit 3000? :?
Also, we need to talk about Shamen
There are no shaman, witchdoctors or whatever in this range. It feels wrong to have a Fantasy army without magic, though. So what options are there:
- convert a couple from this style of Orcs (but I haven't really spotted a good starting model yet)
- use Goblin models of the same era (would work better if they matched the goblins I'm already using, but guess what?)
- use later Orc models (which are quite different in style)
- bus in Wizards from another range of the same era, and then explain it with fluff
Interested in your thoughts and suggestions. Any models you think might match?
When I get some time to think I'll stick up pictures of some mini options that cross my mind...
-
Still stuck on the Shamen thing, all ideas welcomed!!!
Mended an orc with a plastic Skeleton scimitar to see how it looks - a bit oversized but I think it'll pass? They are not the (impossible to source!) scimitars I really wanted, but a more recent equivalent.
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsgtwaasxw.png)
Of course, to include a regiment of these in the army we are going to end up way past the 3000 points mark...
-
Looks like a good fit! :::cheers:::
-
Yeah, I think it'll do, better than leaving them unmended!
Here are some more heavily armoured orcs, I think I'm going to pop them into their own small unit and call the "chieftains" or similar
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsk3dk2jta.png)
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsoveqyts2.png)
One of the interesting things about this range is some of the weapon choices. The rank and file orcs pretty much match the weapons listed in the AD&D Monster Manual - spears, axes, scimitars, bows and a few crossbows. But someone chose to include a sickle, a two-handed mace and even throwing darts - TWICE - in the mix. I am definitely including that in the army list!
Oh, I also promised pictures of the repaired variants of the great mace guy...
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zps5jw08x5t.png)
Same model, different problems. The halberd conversion started off with a miscast shaft, so there was a gap in the mace handle. I toyed with a two weapon combo, and then went for this. The axe conversion is a sadder story - that model has terrible LEAD ROT. The mace head was missing and when I tried to drill into the shaft to replace it, his arm just came off and the weapon haft crumbled into pieces! So this guy is cobbled together from the remains and some bits.
-
They look up for a fight! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:
-
really like the Red Goblin riders, specifically the clothing. good color choices there.
-
Thanks guys! Colourwise, I stuck with the same palette for clothes as the Orcs, I hope it blends them into the army a bit while staying distinct.
-
Nothing else finished yet, but I've started building some artillery pieces. There isn't much in the way of war machines that are as ancient as these orcs, so I'm having to cheat a little bit and use some (gasp!) slotta based models! Yikes!
The old models that I could get are in a bit of a state - a few missing pieces, and some in a terrible state due to the dreaded lead rot. I've made replacements for a few pieces and done a lot of greenstuff repairs on others and they look okay. Good enough for orcs, certainly.
I thought maybe I'd add a giant to the force? It's become a traditional part of an orc army; even if they are not part of the 3rd edition army list, they are available as mercenaries. There are a few D&Desque giants from around this time, but they are mostly pretty small (1st ed D&D Hill Giants were only a bit bigger than ogres, so this is logical) but there's one which isn't too embarassing...
(http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsul8sbiyh.png)
This is George the Giant (yes, that's his official name).
-
Built and painted some artillery! OMG so much brown paint...
(https://oi1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsbcbgosic.png)
This is a pair of the TA4 Orc War Machines, from late 1983. These are the earliest Orc artillery pieces in the Citadel range, as far as I know. I had to do a fair bit of repair and even replace a couple of parts, but they came out okay. I'm one crewman short here, still hunting ebay for another one.
(https://oi1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsntf9qcai.png)
Bolt throwers. Now these really are cheating a bit, though they are about as early as I could get. These are actually C22 Orc Bolt Throwers from 1986, though they are based on the sculpts for the RR14 Notlob's Orc Artillery which were released in 1985. The latter are much, more more expensive to buy and use mostly the same slotta-based crew models.
-
That's a decent arsenal, especially for Orcs. :-)
And I very much like the browns!
The C22 Bolt Throwers come with the rope & the bolt on their bases? And presumably the Notlob's don't? I have a strange warmachine base in my bits box, and it looks very much like these.
-Z
-
I think the Notlob bolt thrower bases have the rope but not the bolt or the steel reinforcements. Also the bolt throwers themselves don't have the additional metal details or the row of rivets along the front of the bow.
I always liked the fact that these bolt throwers look portable, you could imagine them being carried around by 3 or 4 orcs, or on a small cart. The trebuchets, I think, are much more likely to be found at an orc stronghold as defensive weapons.
-
These guys kick ass.
-
Those look good, I like 'em! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:
-
(https://oi1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsra3qbe1r.png)
George The Giant (FF64-2), and his chum, a Giant Two Headed Troll (FF16-2)
-
Is the two headed dud wearing shades? :icon_wink:
-
No, he just has ridiculously bushy eyebrows! :mrgreen:
-
Spent the way-too-hot and way-too-tired holiday weekend painting boring orcs...
(https://oi1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsszatfmmn.png)
(https://oi1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsu9f4f7su.png)
They're a bit less fun than the other units as most of them are dressed solely in chainmail, so the unit is less colourful and less varied. This is the most heavily repaired unit so far, with only four or five swinging their original axes, so it's nice to have completed their renovation.
I had thought of using this rag tag band as some sort of militia or levy unit (orc farmers and craftsmen rather than soldiers?) but even their tatty chain shirts makes them look a bit more professional than that - most of the sword and mace armed units are actually unarmoured models. Another option might be to find shields for them and make them just another unit of hand weapon and shield infantry?
-
They look like a formidable unit!
In the time of handguns (if you play in a renaissance style setting with Empire & Dwarfs using black powder), tatty chain shirts were for peasant levies. Perhaps better equipped peasant levies, but still levies.
-Z
-
Hmmm, fair point. Food for thought...
-
Dammit, I seem to have bought some MORE Orcs on ebay. I really don't want to paint many more, if I'm honest about it!
-
Dammit, I seem to have bought some MORE Orcs on ebay. I really don't want to paint many more, if I'm honest about it!
Story of my life :happy:
-
Yeah, I'll bet. I think I'll use the new guys to make one more infantry block, and then it'll mainly be characters and bits and bobs to tidy off the army. Then it's standards and basing and we're done (as if an army is ever done...)
-
Champion and Bodyguards
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpskofqteat.png)
Painting Brown Orcs is definitely losing it's lustre. One more big regiment, I think. There are still some characters and some more red goblins, too.
-
Errr, I did paint some more orcs, they're in the 2019 Painting thread but right now the thing is BASES
I want to get away from static grass a bit, and I thought flock would help conceal the pre-slotta bases, but is this TOO green?
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/edited-image_zpsg9gbhrzn.png)
-
I based thousands of orcs now, they look okay. Still rather greener than I really intended, but it has quite an old-school look and contrasts the brown skin well, so it'll do.
Now free-handing standards and flags. I'm very bad at this and don't know why I bother! Really looking forward to getting this over with now!!! :eusa_wall:
-
Standards as of right now (and I think the first time I've posted finished bases)
A range of Orc standard cliches, I had to throw in the red eye, right? FEEDBACK VERY WELCOME!
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsotk8eulp.png)
I've still got the Orc General and a bunch more Red Goblins to paint. Time to dig through the boxes and see if there is anything else I've missed...
-
They all look pretty cool to me. I think I like the sun/moon one the best though it could be a toss up with the red cyclops.
-
I think I owe everyone a few more updates, here's what I've painted in the last month or so...
A handful more Red Goblin Wolf Riders, taking me to the (strange) total of 17
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpswyrtonn6.png)
Red Goblin Infantry! I wasn't originally going to include these, but for completeness it seemed a shame to exclude them, especially as the Chieftain is such a nice model. Quite a martial looking bunch for goblins!
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpszbrlokox.png)
Red Goblins on Giant Tuskers! Elite Goblin shock cavalry? I think so! I'd like a bigger unit but these are pretty rare (and so horribly expensive)
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zps6xzo9pvj.png)
Orc King and War Wyvern - you can't build a pre-slotta Orc army and not include this model, it's a classic even if by modern standards it's not that big
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsefvwegji.png)
-
Quite the collection there! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
-
The standards look great. I think the fact that you used the cliches works in their favor. It's a really oldschool army, after all. The whole thing has come together very well. I really love seeing these old figures painted up. I hope you're up for some full (for the moment) army photos soon. :-D
I think my only criticism is the bases. I know you mentioned the green, but I think that looks goo. Especially since you used more earthy colors for the orcs. It also reminds me of the model railroad dyed sawdust style flock that my friends and I used, and also used to see in early issues of White Dwarf & Dragon Magazine. Fitting for the vintage models. I also like the tufts. But I think the amount of white is a little distracting from the figures.
Well done! :::cheers:::
-
I have to agree a bit, to be honest. It's come out a little bit "garden path" where I was going more for a chalky / limestone effect. I like that it helps the models stand out from the bases a bit, but I is rather full on in places. I might go back and change the balance a bit, I've got some tufts left so it would be easy to break up some of the bigger white patches.
I've ordered ONE more goblin from ebay, and then it's possible that that's it. Except for movement trays, which I think I might leave the white stones off of ;)
-
FWIW, I think the amount of white on the tusker riders and the wyvern base look good and has the chalky effect you mentioned.
-
That's very useful to know, thanks. Looking at the army as a whole, this last batch are stonier than the ones I did all at once, I think I almost flipped the ratios somehow.
-
My movement tray order arrived! I missed one unit off it. Annoying!!! :eusa_wall:
Ordered a few extras. You'll be getting some army photos once they arrive, I think :)
-
Some whole army shots for you
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsqefwxxpp.png)
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpsybnh1hpx.png)
(https://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o541/Shadespyre/WARHAMMER/Fantasy%20Tribes%20Orcs/edited-image_zpslnmr66sr.png)
Quite a lot of them in the end!
Unit roster:
Orc King on War Wyvern
2 Orc Chieftains on Wyverns
Orc Wizard
Half Orc Shaman
20 Big Orcs with Great Weapons (Full Command)
12 Orc Chieftains in Heavy Armour
10 Orc Bodyguards with Great Weapons (with Orc Champion and Army Standard bearer)
25 Orcs with Spears (Full Command)
18 Orcs with Swords (Full Command)
16 Orcs with Maces (Full Command)
20 Orc Levy with Hand Weapons (Full Command)
10 Orc Archers
10 Orc Archers
10 Orc Crossbowmen
2x 4-crew Stone Throwers
4x 2-crew Bolt Throwers
9 Trolls
1 Giant
25 Red Goblins (with Goblin Chieftain and Goblin Wizard)
8 Red Goblin Wolf Riders
8 Red Goblin Wolf Riders
4 Elite Red Goblin Tusker Riders
About 4500 points for Warhammer Fantasy 3rd Edition, depending on what you count things as and how the characters are set up
-
Awesome!!!
-
Yes! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
-
It is an awesome and very coherent looking army! Something to be proud of!
-
Sweet! Impressive seeing it all set out together.
-
Thanks all, I'm pleased with how it came out. I don't know how effective it would be in a game, but I enjoyed painting "only" 25 figures in a "big" regiment compared to grinding out 60 strong 8th ed units. It still adds up to 230 models though, so I still haven't learned restraint. I think 12 year old me would be quite happy with it :)
-
I like the smaller regiments, and have been trying to reset myself from that giant regiment (WFB8, KoW) mindset too. I think that units of 10-25 are a good size, and help make a "smaller" (4'x8' or less) gaming table accommodate more gameplay. (Not that I game much lately...)
I think your army photos make it clear -- it looks like a big army on a battlefield! :::cheers:::
-
Yep, small sized units, via other editions than 8th, it's a good way to go! :::cheers:::
-
Just popped back, a mere TWO YEARS after finishing this project, with one more model! This was always planned to be part of the project but I ran out of steam and didn't do it. I just found it in the back of a cupboard and being "between armies" I thought I'd repair, assemble and paint it as I'd intended.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/o541/Shadespyre/(edited)_DSC05373.JPG)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/o541/Shadespyre/(edited)_DSC05375.JPG)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/o541/Shadespyre/(edited)_DSC05376.JPG)
Many of the repairs and modifications I made are now invisible - there is a plastic subframe underneath helping to support the broken and lead-rotted structure, along with a lot of metal pins. I also made a few tweaks to how the giant skull fits to make room for the crossbow orcs, and added little wooden platforms so they could stand in those locations.
The biggest change is the crew - I used these old Citadel orcs to replace the original Ral Partha Orcs, which are a completely different style.
Maybe I could add one more Orc stood at the back of the machine to operate the trebuchet - which actually works, by the way - but for now I'll call this finished, AGAIN!
-
Great job
-
Ooooooh! That does look good. I like how the orcs have attached the dragon(?) skull together with small pieces of iron, and the concept of having a small trebuchet on the back of a ram is classic.
:icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::