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Author Topic: The Colleges of Magic  (Read 13794 times)

Offline Oxycutor

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2017, 07:36:18 AM »
She is not a Matriarch, but is possibly the most powerful Amethyst mage in the Empire. 

And a Forgeworld model still available, should EccentricCircle be interested in another miniature

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Elspeth-Von-Draken-on-Carmine-Dragon

« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 08:16:44 AM by Oxycutor »

Offline Warlord

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2017, 08:14:44 AM »
The truthsayer makes a good amber of life wizard.
The dark emissary could be a decent amethyst wizard.
Marco Columbo can be a good scroll caddy... but probably more often is used as an engineer.
There Heroquest Wizard is a nice generic wizard.
There is also the Warhammer Quest wizard who makes a nice grey wizard.
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Offline EccentricCircle

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2017, 09:44:20 AM »
Re layout of the colleges: While the colleges themselves have separate guildhalls, what I had in mind was the hall where the duels to become supreme patriarch take place. I can't remember which army book it is in off the top of my head, but there is a story which describes it as a large octagonal hall, with alcoves along the walls from which senior wizards can watch the duels without being in the line of fire. The staff of Volens is placed on a pedestal in the centre and the two claimants have to fight their way to it.
I don't think it says where in Altdorf it is actually supposed to be located, but I get the impression that it isn't part of any one college, but is rather neutral ground where the leaders of the different organisations can take council, so that was what I was going with. I guess there might be more info in realms of sorcery or one or other of the novels though.

Re Lady Wizards: That sounds promising, I'd forgotten about Elspeth, but of course forgeworld make a rather awesome model of her, which can be added to the list. (though looking at the price tag, probably the "ooh that's a cool wizard" list rather than the "I think i'll have that one in my army" list. It makes sense that the RPG would have more information on the way the colleges actually work, since you are going to have players representing various colleges and traditions, and wanting to make less usual characters into the bargain.

Offline Oxycutor

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2017, 10:25:35 AM »
I could dig out my Realms of Sorcery to see if it has any information about the duels for the supreme patriarch and any neutral ground and so on.  And it will list Matriarchs and Patriarchs as well.  I know most are different between the WFRP 1st ediotion RoS and 2nd Edition.   

And A high level wizard for the Amber college prior to the End Times, where he became Supreme Patriarch by vote for the frist time rather than by duel, would be Gregor Martak, who would be represented by the model on the two-headed griffon

Offline EccentricCircle

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2017, 11:06:51 AM »
I have the 2e Realms of Sorcery book, Though have never seen the 1st ed version. I'll be re-reading it as I paint I think, although its currently behind a couple of novels on my reading pile.

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2017, 01:29:12 PM »
There is also the case of the Amethyst wizardess Elspeth von Draken, Magisterix and arch-wizard.

I don't think she was ever described as a 'Matriarch', but it does sound that she has more than enough power to rule over the Amethyst Order.

She was certainly one of the most powerful Amethyst Wizards in Empire's history. She was so suffused with Shyish, that after her death, she essentialy became one with that wind.

Not to mention the fact that she had a remains of a dead god in her hourglass.
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2017, 01:30:44 PM »
So she has enough of a "because magic!" reason to have the model ported to Age of Sigmar, and get a Warscroll

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2017, 01:38:54 PM »
So she has enough of a "because magic!" reason to have the model ported to Age of Sigmar, and get a Warscroll

Definetly!

As for the duel story, it's in the Empire's armybook for 6th edition. RoS is a great source of konwledge about the Colleges.

Matrak belonged to the EoT timeline, which sucks, so don't bother with him. :-P
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2017, 01:47:40 PM »
What's EoT? TET should be the acronym, there was no "Of" in Warhammer: The End Times.   :-D

Regardless of whether you like it, it's the offical way the World that Was ended.   There are bits of it that make my teeth grind when I read it, for bad inconsistencies with existing backgroud, such as Shallya's relationship status to other gods, and inventing a gigantic Niagara style waterfall at Carroburg, which negates all the stuff about the Imperial Fleet, the Dreadfleet novel, and so many other WFRP books of any edition stating that the Reik is the major trading route of the Empire

And, even without any explanation, introducing a vote for Supreme Patriarch rather than a duel.

However, I did like the character Gregor Martak that was invented from that, one of the better parts of the End Times storyline

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2017, 02:01:52 PM »
The Olde World has not ended :icon_exclaim:

Merely fairy tales of the future past.
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Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2017, 03:17:10 PM »
What's EoT? TET should be the acronym, there was no "Of" in Warhammer: The End Times.   :-D

Regardless of whether you like it, it's the offical way the World that Was ended.   There are bits of it that make my teeth grind when I read it, for bad inconsistencies with existing backgroud, such as Shallya's relationship status to other gods, and inventing a gigantic Niagara style waterfall at Carroburg, which negates all the stuff about the Imperial Fleet, the Dreadfleet novel, and so many other WFRP books of any edition stating that the Reik is the major trading route of the Empire

And, even without any explanation, introducing a vote for Supreme Patriarch rather than a duel.

However, I did like the character Gregor Martak that was invented from that, one of the better parts of the End Times storyline

True, but just like with all fictional universes you can make whatever you want with it. I was always a Storm of Chaos fan and I like how it changed the world, without blowing it up in a anti-climatic way. So I choose to consider this line to be canonical. ;) Fair play to me, as well as to people who liked ET (without "O" this time ;) ).
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2017, 04:43:50 PM »
Re layout of the colleges: While the colleges themselves have separate guildhalls, what I had in mind was the hall where the duels to become supreme patriarch take place. I can't remember which army book it is in off the top of my head, but there is a story which describes it as a large octagonal hall, with alcoves along the walls from which senior wizards can watch the duels without being in the line of fire. The staff of Volens is placed on a pedestal in the centre and the two claimants have to fight their way to it.
I don't think it says where in Altdorf it is actually supposed to be located, but I get the impression that it isn't part of any one college, but is rather neutral ground where the leaders of the different organisations can take council, so that was what I was going with. I guess there might be more info in realms of sorcery or one or other of the novels though.

That description is in the 6th edition, after the description Balthazar Gelt. There is an even shorter version in the 7th edition. According to WFP 2 Realms of Sorcery, the subterranean Hall of Duels is 100 feet below the Hall of Convocation, where the conclaves of the Patriarchs are held.  Unfortunately, I cannot find any indication regearding the location of that Hall either.
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2017, 10:07:57 PM »
There's no mention of it in Spires of Altdorf, that I can find from a quick read through

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2017, 10:27:20 PM »
In the description of Thyrus Gorman as SC, it would appear that the Hall of Duels is also called the Obsidian Hall. But that does not seem to briing us closer to its location in Altdorf.
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Offline scrubber

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2017, 10:41:29 PM »
The hall is a secret closely guards by all the higher officials of the Magic Collages, so unless your a member and of High rank, them it will remain oblivious to you and me. 

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2017, 08:36:49 AM »
Hell, for all that we know, it could be located in another dimension altogether. :unsure:
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2017, 10:06:24 AM »
The White Dwarf 389 (UK) of May 2012 contains the scenario "Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels", taking place in 2415. Here the Grand Theogonist Viktor Helmgart marched with troops on the "Great Hall of Duels" to stop the magical mayhem that was going on. With the exception of the Supreme Patriarch and the Patriarch of the Order of Light, all Patriarchs were killed at the time. Certainly after that, the location must have been generally known.
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Offline EccentricCircle

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2017, 11:09:44 AM »
 In that case the meeting likely takes place in the Hall of Convocation, rather than the Hall of Duels itself. It would certainly make sense that they wouldn't want everyone to know where it is, as I recall, half of the Colleges are hidden by some means or another as well.

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 08:26:04 PM »
The White Dwarf 389 (UK) of May 2012 contains the scenario "Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels", taking place in 2415. Here the Grand Theogonist Viktor Helmgart marched with troops on the "Great Hall of Duels" to stop the magical mayhem that was going on. With the exception of the Supreme Patriarch and the Patriarch of the Order of Light, all Patriarchs were killed at the time. Certainly after that, the location must have been generally known.

So when did Volkmar became the GT? I thought he was the head honcho of sigmarites, even before Karl Franz became the Emperor. :ph34r:
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 08:36:57 PM »
As said, the "Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels" occurred in 2415, under the reign of Dieter IV. The father of Karl Franz was not even a twinkle in his grandfather's eye yet. That said, one should not, perhaps, take too much notice of the story, because it was basically product placement for the Storm of Magic.
And speaking about Dieter IV, the ancestors of Karl Franz, and product placement, do not forget to have look at http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=47520.0
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Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2017, 11:06:40 AM »
Prince Wilhelm (father of KF) fought against Grom, and later replaced Dieter, after the Marienburg scandal. The book "Grimblades" details this quite well. As for your history topic, it is a favorite of mine on these forums. :smile2:
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Offline S.O.F

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2017, 11:24:23 AM »
Prince Wilhelm (great great grandfather of KF)

That would be more accurate. Grimblades is okay, one of the better Empire Army series, but it doesn't offer all that much toward the state of Imperial politics in early 25th century. I mean it is another horribly garbled source in that regard. It does however offer a reasonable narrative as to how the Electors of the Reikland positioned themselves to take the Imperial crown following the Marienburg Scandal.
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Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2017, 01:51:59 PM »
Prince Wilhelm (great great grandfather of KF)

That would be more accurate. Grimblades is okay, one of the better Empire Army series, but it doesn't offer all that much toward the state of Imperial politics in early 25th century. I mean it is another horribly garbled source in that regard. It does however offer a reasonable narrative as to how the Electors of the Reikland positioned themselves to take the Imperial crown following the Marienburg Scandal.

Ahhh yes, my mistake. He was the first of KF's line to take the throne. As for Grimblades, I think it offered a nice mix of intrigue and war-themed action. Worth a read.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2017, 10:37:16 AM »
Although WFRP 1 The Enemy Within calls Karl Franz the great greta grandson of Wilhelm III (or to be precise, the great great present grandson - due to a print error), I would rather favour seeing Wilhelm III as his great grandfather, and merge Matthias IV and Mattheus II.
The line of successors to Wilhelm is a bit unclear, and, as so often, various sources contradict each other. No surprise really, given the changes between WFRP 1 & 2, and the fact that there does not seem to have been strict coordination between WFB, WFRP and the Black Library novels.
Matthias the IV, named in Beasts of Velvet as the immediate successor of Wilhelm III, disappeared (according to WD 140) in 2401, 28 years before Wilhelm came to the throne. The father of KF is usually named Luitpold, but Letters from Sylvania calls him Ferrand.
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: The Colleges of Magic
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2017, 09:16:56 AM »
I would go with what the Majority of sources say. I've always assumed Luitpold as the father of Karl-Franz