Topic: What In The Name Of Sigmar....

[Orwin]

I really think GW could've shown some respect for their brand and had it sent to FW's care. They thrashed their breadmaker for more than 20 years just because of low profits.

Again, not losses, but low *profits*.

[Xathrodox86]

I really think GW could've shown some respect for their brand and had it sent to FW's care. They thrashed their breadmaker for more than 20 years just because of low profits.

Again, not losses, but low *profits*.

It wouldn't work. FW is 100% concentrated on the Horus Heresy. That's why they're so slow in making another Imperial Armour books and completely dropped their WFB range, including the continuation of the "Tamurkhan" books.

[Orwin]

Hire more people, maybe?

[Oxycutor]

FW have hired more people.   But for Specialist Games.   It's also looking like GW main studio is picking up basic troops in plastic for Horus Heresy, which hopefully will give FW some freedom to do other stuff.

Now the FW/Specialist are also responsible for the Middle Earth game, maybe down the line they may also revive Warhammer rank and file in the old world, and do their own 9th edition.  I think it's unlikely any time soon.

I don't really miss WFB that much any more, not the game side of it at least.  My heyday of playing was 3rd/4th when we didn't use army books and points until near the end of that group's playing days, so that freeform of just putting stuff on the table and playing felt really new and retro at the same for Age of Sigmar.  I lived through the primary colour years of GW, and the crazy and humorous stuff.  I can't imagine how dull Orcs and Goblins and Skaven would have been without the crazy.  I don't think any version of the game has been perfect, they all bring things of merit, including the new game, whether you like it or hate it.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

Now the FW/Specialist are also responsible for the Middle Earth game, maybe down the line they may also revive Warhammer rank and file in the old world, and do their own 9th edition.  I think it's unlikely any time soon.

They should bring the background back,making new BL books... retconning the silly End Times and cutting any link with aos.
Of course it feels like old not happy of having destroyed and canceled Warhammer they leech ideas like path to  glory for aos.
WHFB wasn't perfect but   any edition even 8th was better than that high-duh-fantasy stuff called aos.

Aos, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing!
Listen to me

Ohhh, aos, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of Warhammer Fantasy

[Baron von Klatz]

It'd be nice to see the old guard get thrown a bone with a callback game that isn't digital. Definitely don't see them returning to the old world completely,  though. If it was doing bad before it definitely be a hard sell now with so many competitors around and burnt bridges with the old fanbase.

It'd also mean they couldn't keep turning a blind eye to the 9th age which I really don't want to see get into trouble.

About Forge World though, they are continuing to make Chaos Dwarves (Legion of Azhag) and are working on Fimir for the fantasy side of things.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

It'd be nice to see the old guard get thrown a bone with a callback game that isn't digital. Definitely don't see them returning to the old world completely,  though. If it was doing bad before it definitely be a hard sell now with so many competitors around and burnt bridges with the old fanbase.

Warhammer was doing bad for a reason:GW itself!   

[Baron von Klatz]

Yeah, they neglected it and thus lead to the current situation of so many competitors and other fantasy manufacturers arising to fill the void.

Bringing old fantasy back isn't going to magically fix everything.

[Xathrodox86]

Yeah, they neglected it and thus lead to the current situation of so many competitors and other fantasy manufacturers arising to fill the void.

Bringing old fantasy back isn't going to magically fix everything.

That's why they won't do it, at least in the "flesh". From now on, I guess that we'll only see WFB in the digital realm.

[Warlord]

8th edition and getting rid of blisters destroyed warhammer.

The requirement for big units, meant people had to buy more, but would also flood the second hand market. Having all units as plastic boxes meang that the entry price, and continuous price was too high, and once again, flood the market with second hand.

I honestly think those 2 things are BIG contributors.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

Yeah, they neglected it and thus lead to the current situation of so many competitors and other fantasy manufacturers arising to fill the void.

Bringing old fantasy back isn't going to magically fix everything.

Kinda like Blood Bowl?  GW canceled it, players tweaked and adjusted rulebook and many,many companies produced fantasy football miniatures and even alternative rules and then  now GW is bringing it back?

But yes bringing WHFB as rules and overall background  isn't enough . The deletion of AoS with something silly and incongruent with fluff like the '' End Times '' is another requisite. :V 

[GamesPoet]

8th edition and getting rid of blisters destroyed warhammer.

The requirement for big units, meant people had to buy more, but would also flood the second hand market. Having all units as plastic boxes meang that the entry price, and continuous price was too high, and once again, flood the market with second hand.

I honestly think those 2 things are BIG contributors.

Not sure I'm following the idea on the blister packs.

But regarding 8th edition requiring big blocks, I agree that this helped bring about WFB's demise.

[Baron von Klatz]

@Warlord, Indeed. The entry barrier was just set too high for such a "niche" hobby.

@Bartolo, Blood Bowl is a specialist game being brought back by Forge World, though. I don't think it's easily comparable to the franchise-sized game of fantasy battles that requires far more resources in it's products.

Would be nice to see Forge World do a similar service for the Old World and make models for it. "Warriors of Legend" or something to that effect.

[Yodhrin]

@Warlord, Indeed. The entry barrier was just set too high for such a "niche" hobby.

@Bartolo, Blood Bowl is a specialist game being brought back by Forge World, though. I don't think it's easily comparable to the franchise-sized game of fantasy battles that requires far more resources in it's products.

Would be nice to see Forge World do a similar service for the Old World and make models for it. "Warriors of Legend" or something to that effect.

They don't have to bring back WHFB entire to earn a lot of people back though, consider:

Get the main GW studio to agree to let them disconnect the AoS and WHFB background, at least in an explicit way, and retcon away the End Times so they can make use of the WHF setting again. Assuming this sort of thing wouldn't happen for at least another couple of years, this might actually be doable since, lets be honest, the only reason GW linked AoS and WHFB in the first place was to try and shunt gullible WHF fans over into AoS by pretending "no really, it's the same setting honest"(and to give them an excuse to drag a last few pennies out of them with the End Times releases) - by the time FW think about doing a WHF revival, anyone who's going to fall for that will have, and AoS loses nothing in terms of the fiction by removing the link as they can just make the "before Sigmar fights the magic space-dragon" bit even more vague.

Once the setting has been rescued, while I wouldn't expect to see FW revive WHFB as a game system, the WHF setting could at least serve as the basis for some FW AoS supplements, as well as provide an opportunity to revive Mordheim and Warmaster(which, lets be honest, are really far more sensible systems for fantasy gaming than WHFB was even before 8th).

Hell, if they crack on they could even time the Warmaster release to coincide with the final part of the TW:Warhammer trilogy and conduct a joint marketing campaign with SEGA. But that's probably too sensible an idea even for FW let alone GWHQ.

[Baron von Klatz]

Well, you can't really "disconnect" them since AoS has too many links to the old world already. The incarnates,  Sigmar's records of the-world-that-was and the End Times,  some of the army relics from the GHB being magic items, old world gods being mentioned and even appearing as Ursen did in the beast realm and Grimnir's position being taken by a certain slayer.

That's why I think a multi-verse/different time lines approach would be best for both fanbases and even familiar territory to TW players as they're used to re-writing history or just throwing the history book out entirely.

Forge World making old world Mordheim and Warmaster would be exceptional.

Not sure if CA and FW syncing up their releases would be possible,  though. Both projects take months of preparation in advance and they have already demanding schedules to keep. They'd certainly be helpful to one another regardless of the time-lapse in releases, though.

[Yodhrin]

Well, you can't really "disconnect" them since AoS has too many links to the old world already. The incarnates,  Sigmar's records of the-world-that-was and the End Times,  some of the army relics from the GHB being magic items, old world gods being mentioned and even appearing as Ursen did in the beast realm and Grimnir's position being taken by a certain slayer.

That's why I think a multi-verse/different time lines approach would be best for both fanbases and even familiar territory to TW players as they're used to re-writing history or just throwing the history book out entirely.

Forge World making old world Mordheim and Warmaster would be exceptional.

Not sure if CA and FW syncing up their releases would be possible,  though. Both projects take months of preparation in advance and they have already demanding schedules to keep. They'd certainly be helpful to one another regardless of the time-lapse in releases, though.

AoS and WHF don't really have much more in common than WHF and RT did back in days of yore, and they were decoupled easily enough such that even the hints and knowing winks vanished. A couple of wee retcons(I've not followed AoS fiction too closely, I have finite money, time, and braincells - would it actually matter even a little if they just removed "Sigmar's records of the-world-that-was and the End Times", renamed a couple of magic items, and didn't bother to explain why Sigmar & other "personalities" shared names and some characteristics with WHF characters? Given they're still at the stage where they can say "soandso faction is doing worse than we thought in the campaign - eff-it, make up some magic item and say it's a gif from the gods or some crap", I very much doubt it) and they wouldn't have anything in common bar a few names.

[Gankom]

Why not just have it different time periods? Half the characters in the army books were dead or from a different part in history. Just like how 40k currently has the Horus Heresy series and the traditional 40k series, Fantasy can have AoS (The 40k equivalent) and The End Times (Horus Heresy Equivilent.) Everyone wins, everyones somewhat happy.

I've said it before, but as much as the End Times had some sloppy writing I saw it bring more people back into the hobby then anything else in the past couple of years.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

Why not just have it different time periods? Half the characters in the army books were dead or from a different part in history. Just like how 40k currently has the Horus Heresy series and the traditional 40k series, Fantasy can have AoS (The 40k equivalent) and The End Times (Horus Heresy Equivilent.) Everyone wins, everyones somewhat happy.

I've said it before, but as much as the End Times had some sloppy writing I saw it bring more people back into the hobby then anything else in the past couple of years.

It's very different HH  & WH  40k share the same atmosphere, ''spirit'' while Warhammer and aos not, Warhammer is a low fantasy setting inspired by Moorcock and history, AoS an american high  fantasy  which shares with Warhammer just because it's its parasite (they canceled Old World but they are not able to come up with new interesting characters so they keep using WHFB ones -.-) plus WH 40k didn't give HH a silly,incongruent (with previous twenty years of BG) ending .

[ZeroTwentythree]

AoS an american high  fantasy 

I politely ask that you refrain from further anti-American slander, or I may have to report these offensive statements to the moderators.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

AoS an american high  fantasy 

I politely ask that you refrain from further anti-American slander, or I may have to report these offensive statements to the moderators.

What's offensive?  Seriously I wasn't being anti american.
The point was HH & WH 40k share the same  cultural heritage, while between WHFB and AoS there's a gap. The first inspired by Mitteleuropean history and english writers as Moorcock the second is closer  for ideas to settings like Planescape and D&D in general,Magic the Gathering and World of Warcraft all of them born   in USA. John Blanche explains in a good way the diffences between the two kind of fantasy in a old WD interview (The Illustrated Man, WD 300 UK).

[ZeroTwentythree]

I was being sarcastic. I Should have put a smiley in there somewhere.

[Baron von Klatz]

@Yodhrin,  (Sorry for taking so long to reply)

I suppose AoS and WFB could be "disconnected" by soft retcons but only after about a decade of development.  Alot of novels and audio books outright reference the old world so that'd make things somewhat tricky at this time or the near future.

I don't see why they should really bother, though. Just make two timelines that split off on Mannfred's decision to interfere during the climax and go from there. It's like you said, all the AoS releases can fit into the vastness of the old world. So GW could continue with it's current line and fluff while making alternate lore for WFB while FW can make models to please the old guard and specialist releases like Mordheim and Warmaster.

Your statement of "still at that stage" is a bit of a reach as it was just a flavorful boost that all factions eventually received. A WFB equivalent would be somewhere like "Nuln's supply wagons have arrived! The forces of Order get one re-roll result per unit due to the newly forged weaponry!".

Unless you mean the old world magic items which are in the generals book and Silver Tower.

Why not just have it different time periods? Half the characters in the army books were dead or from a different part in history. Just like how 40k currently has the Horus Heresy series and the traditional 40k series, Fantasy can have AoS (The 40k equivalent) and The End Times (Horus Heresy Equivilent.) Everyone wins, everyones somewhat happy.

I've said it before, but as much as the End Times had some sloppy writing I saw it bring more people back into the hobby then anything else in the past couple of years.

Agreed.

@Bartolo,  they actually come up with new characters with almost every novel, with examples ranging from a Stormcast leader of the Hallowed knights who makes a arduous journey through the realm of death to treat with Nagash and meeting fun things along the way like a friendly vampire priesthood who turn into bloodthirsty monsters at the drop of a hat or several leaders of either Devoted warriors of Sigmar or just villagers who've been living in caves and hiding in realms overrun with chaos and non-human characters like a Skaven pestilence priest who completely shocks his master by showing a unheard of trait, complete loyalty.

The characters from the old world really don't feature much except to set-up what's occurring in the overall scheme of things. I believe only Mannfred is the one with the most proactive role in the novels and not running things behind the curtains.

[adso113]

To the OP: there are people in Alaska that play 9th Age. You can look for a game on the AKW Facebook page. I think you can do a search for Alaska Wargaming.

[Darknight]

To the OP: there are people in Alaska

I don't believe it. It's just polar bears and igloos.

[Baron von Klatz]

Someone had to build those igloos you know.