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Author Topic: First Empire List 2500pts  (Read 3168 times)

Offline Tiny

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First Empire List 2500pts
« on: October 19, 2010, 10:52:52 PM »
Hi people,

Starting my 1st wargaming army in 12 years and as such, need a little guidance on what's good and what's not.

Here's my preliminary 2500 point list based on models I have or will be arriving shortly.

Lords:

Arch Lector (Halberdiers)
Shrieking Blade
Van Horstmann's Speculum
Armour of Meteoric Iron
190 pts

Wizard Lord (Life)
Trickster's Shard
200 pts

Heroes

Captain (Halberdiers)
BSB
Full Plate
Ring of Volans
103 pts

Warrior Priest (Greatswords)
Great Weapon
Heavy Armour
100 pts

Warrior Priest (Knights)
Great Weapon
Heavy Armour
Barded Warhorse
114pts

Battle Wizard (Beasts/Shadow)
Dispel Scroll
90 pts

Troops

30 Halberdiers
Full Command
170 pts

15 Swordsman Detachment (Halberdiers)
90pts

15 Swordsman Detachment (Greatswords)
90pts

10 Handgunners Detachment (Halberdiers)
80 pts

10 Handgunners Detachment (Greatswords)
80 pts

20 Crossbowmen
Standard & Musician
175pts

10 Huntsmen
100 pts

Special

9 Inner Circle Knights
Great Weapons
Standard
Wailing Banner
300 pts

30 Greatswords
Full Command
330 pts

Cannon
100 pts

Mortar
75 pts

Rare

Helblaster
110 pts

Total 2497 (hopefully)

Not 100% sure if this is a legal list so would appreciate any help. Also any suggestions on things to get rid of / change as not built many of the models yet so can easily sell on ebay or whatever.

Cheers

Offline Emprah

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 05:17:22 AM »
I dont think this is a legal lis bud. Ur detatchment dont count towards ur core minimum. Scroll caddies (lvl 1 wizard with a dispel scrolls) a now a pointless points sink i feel. Winds of magic working like they do know makes dispel dice the better option and with ur arch lector and 2 priests u should be able to equal, or even beat, ur opponents power dice! I no longer bother with bound items either, so i would scrap the RoV on ur BSB, give him some protection instead, ward save, better armour ur choice. Ur wizard lord looks a little understate too with just a trickster shard, my fave combo atm is rod of power and the 4+ ward trinket. Ur core choice is definately in need of change, sorry :icon_redface: empire troops are a lot more powerful than they 1st seem on paper! Ur choice of halberdiers is good, str 4 has gotta be great on summat tht cheap, but i'd be tempted to up the unit some more to say 40 or even 50, horde units are fun though tricky to use. Personally I've never used huntsmen, but if u do let me know wot u think of them. Detatchments are tht great to me, though lots of ppl may call me crazy! I like to play aggresive but i find detachments suit the gunline army more, either tht or i use them wrong. Ur knights are a solid choice, but remember they need a full 2nd rank of 5 to disrupt ranks, wailing banner is a little excessive when a simple war banner or steel standard are such nice choices. Greatswords are, well, great! So long as the wizard lord is puttin the regen signature spell on them, otherwise i find a 4+ armour save when ur stiking last a little to weak.
Thts just my thoughts though! f u've played this list and owned then feel free to call me a fool (and tell me ur tactics please lol) :icon_lol:
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 05:30:35 AM by Emprah »
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" -Vinne Jones, Snatch

Empire Games Played- 5/5/3

"Initiative test, is that taken against your leadership?" My friend asking a question mid game...

Offline Tiny

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 01:45:38 PM »
Thanks for the critique Emprah. I've not actually played the list yet (or any Warhammer since 4th ed for that matter), simply making a list to work to when buying models.

I dont think this is a legal lis bud. Ur detatchment dont count towards ur core minimum.

Didn't realise this. Any ideas on what to alter? Change the swords detachments into a single unit of 30 and find points for command? Drop 1 detachment and make halberds bigger?

I no longer bother with bound items either, so i would scrap the RoV on ur BSB, give him some protection instead, ward save, better armour ur choice.

Upon looking at the number of power dice I can feasibly get per turn, I'm going to agree with you. Think by the time I've cast a few spells and prayers I won't have much left for RoV. Is it worth dropping the lvl 1 wizard entirely? I had him in there both as a scroll caddy and to cast shadow/beasts sig spell which both seem pretty nice to me.

Ur wizard lord looks a little understate too with just a trickster shard, my fave combo atm is rod of power and the 4+ ward trinket. Ur core choice is definately in need of change, sorry :icon_redface:  empire troops are a lot more powerful than they 1st seem on paper! Ur choice of halberdiers is good, str 4 has gotta be great on summat tht cheap, but i'd be tempted to up the unit some more to say 40 or even 50, horde units are fun though tricky to use.

Is it worth dropping the lvl 1 wizard and maybe one of the warrior priests to spend a little more on this guy and get a few more troops?

Personally I've never used huntsmen, but if u do let me know wot u think of them.

Since they're the only unit I already have painted, I'd like to use them. Think they may be handy for denying vanguard moves / march blocking / war machine hunting / generally getting in the way etc.

Ur knights are a solid choice, but remember they need a full 2nd rank of 5 to disrupt ranks, wailing banner is a little excessive when a simple war banner or steel standard are such nice choices.
Is disrupting ranks something I need to do with these guys? Was looking more at the 11 re-rollable ws4 st6 attacks, plus causing terror. I suppose though the wailing banner may be overkill, especially since I actually want these guys in combat where they can do damage, not pursuing fleeing troops across the field where they can end up being charged in the flank.

Greatswords are, well, great! So long as the wizard lord is puttin the regen signature spell on them, otherwise i find a 4+ armour save when ur stiking last a little to weak.

Agreed. That's the main reason I chose Life for the wizard lord. Also these would make a pretty nice target for beasts sig spell making them st6 t4. Alternatively, if I take a shadow wizard as my lvl 1, targetting their opponents with that sig spell to lower their ws.

Keep the suggestions coming guys. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.





Offline Jivaine SkyWing II

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2010, 08:00:39 PM »
So further to the other email.  You need to have 25% core. 
With the halbs & their two detachments, crossbows and huntsmen, you are at 615. 

I'm not 100% certain about the rule for army comp.  In 7th edition they didn't count as a unit choice towards the minimum, so I am not sure how they count and or if their points count towards the minimum or not.

I agree, the level one scroll caddy is wasted points.   Give the scroll to your mage lord, and the VHS also, and the 4+ ward save.  Should be a good combo. 

I agree with Emprah, dispell dice are the way to go for sure, and having 2 wizards I have found that is not really needed.  Go with the level 4 and then use the extra points from the level one wizard to beef up another core unit.  Make the crossbowmen 40 guys.  as first two ranks can shoot, and then 1/2 of the rest, so still are getting 30 shots a turn. 

Isn't special choice now up to 25%?  If that's the case, then need to reduce special points.

I like the idea of that banner with your knights.  Especially since my own have been sucking a lot lately, so the re rollable would be good. but you get that with the warrior priest anyways for the first round of combat right? 

Offline Tiny

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2010, 09:43:24 PM »
So further to the other email.  You need to have 25% core. 
With the halbs & their two detachments, crossbows and huntsmen, you are at 615.

I'm not 100% certain about the rule for army comp.  In 7th edition they didn't count as a unit choice towards the minimum, so I am not sure how they count and or if their points count towards the minimum or not.

Definitely need to add more core. I'm leaning towards making the swordsmen a 30 man unit and adding full command. Either that or swapping 1 detachment for another 10-15 halberds to make an even bigger unit.

I agree, the level one scroll caddy is wasted points.   Give the scroll to your mage lord, and the VHS also, and the 4+ ward save.  Should be a good combo.

Not sure about giving the mage the speculum. I think it's more handy on the AL who will (theoretically) see more combat. Liking the idea of the 4+ ward save though. Will spend some of the scroll caddy's points on that.

Make the crossbowmen 40 guys.  as first two ranks can shoot, and then 1/2 of the rest, so still are getting 30 shots a turn. 

Only bows get the volley fire rule so crossbows can't fire from 3rd rank. I think with 20 crossbows and 20 handguns, there's more than enough small arms fire going on.

Isn't special choice now up to 25%?  If that's the case, then need to reduce special points.

Nope, special is up to 50% so all good.

I like the idea of that banner with your knights.  Especially since my own have been sucking a lot lately, so the re rollable would be good. but you get that with the warrior priest anyways for the first round of combat right? 

The banner on the knights causes Terror. The WP gives them the re-rolls via hatred.

Going to look over the list again and make some amendments. Definitely need more core and less characters methinks.

Offline Tiny

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 01:51:05 AM »
Ok, here's my latest attempt at a list. It will involve buying a lot more halberdiers and outriders and selling a lot of knights and handgunners (not built them yet so not a problem really) but I think it is a little more well rounded.

Lords: 329 pts

Arch Lector (Greatswords)
Shrieking Blade
Heavy Armour
Shield
Ironcurse Icon
Luckstone
154 pts

Wizard Lord (Life) (Crossbows)
175 pts

Heroes 292 pts

Captain (Greatswords)
BSB
Armour of Meteoric Iron
100 pts

Warrior Priest (Halberdiers)
Heavy Armour
Shield
96 pts

Warrior Priest (Halberdiers)
Heavy Armour
Shield
96pts

Troops 955 pts

40 Halberdiers
Full Command
220 pts

40 Halberdiers
Full Command
220 pts

20 Swordsman Detachment (Halberdiers)
120pts

20 Swordsman Detachment (Halberdiers)
120pts

20 Crossbowmen
Standard & Musician
175pts

10 Huntsmen
100 pts

Special 814 pts

10 Outriders
Champion
Musician
Repeater Pistol & Pistol
234 pts

30 Greatswords
Full Command
330 pts

Cannon
100 pts

Mortar
75 pts

Mortar
75 pts

Rare 110 pts

Helblaster
110 pts

Total 2500

I've tried to tone down the characters a lot, keeping them to a bare minimum so I can afford the luxury items... More Troops!

Also have the option of getting rid of 2 GS and the bad magic items on the lector to give him the speculum or the wizard the rod of power. Worth doing?

Anyhow, let me know what you think people.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 11:14:49 PM by Tiny »

Offline Emprah

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 06:27:18 AM »
looking good! dont worry bout toning down on character though! thankfully we haven't gone back to the days of character-hammer, but survivability and purpose are a major point when taking them I find. Feel free to splash out on the wizard lord (mine never leaves home without his rod o' power and 4+ ward) Tht block of Outriders looks nasty :biggriin: Only other point is I'd chuck the wizard lord in with greatswords, I think signature spell (regen) can only be cast on himself and unit (which would save u takin a ward save on him) I personally run a GotE but I understand the power of a Arch Lector and unfortunately do most opponents :icon_cry: so beware ppl hunting him!
Let us know how it plays though  :icon_biggrin:
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" -Vinne Jones, Snatch

Empire Games Played- 5/5/3

"Initiative test, is that taken against your leadership?" My friend asking a question mid game...

Offline Sanctus

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2010, 07:35:11 PM »
The list looks pretty solid tbh. Persoanlly though i would make a few alterations :

- Change the gear you AL has so that he has Van Horstans speculum , combined with all his priestly abilites it makes him a god in challenges.It also stops him being so easily picked off by enemy characters as most enemy heroes can go toe toe with a AL and still come out on top.I have no idea what the iron curse icon does , either ive overlooked it or its in the new common magic items and i don't have the new rule book yet.

- If you can fit it in try and include a rod of power on your wizard. It allows you to convert any left over dispel dice left over into power dice (and vice versa). You have a enough Wp's and an AL so you will likely have left over dispel dice so this would be very useful.

- I would also remove the champ from the outrider unit , the pistols will limit the range of the unit slightly even though it shoots another shot. You want to keep some distance between your outraider and your enemies and having an 8" weapon will mean he will never get to shoot.

Besides those minor alterations the list looks like it will perform great.

Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 02:14:07 AM »
Looks good to me too! i would just drop the repeater pistol on the Outrider Champion and give him a Hochland Long Rifle to pick off enemy character models. Remember that Outriders are fast cav and have the Vanguard special rule. gives them a 12 in move before the game begins. Unleash 27 S4 hits with -2 arm save and one shot from the Hochland Long Rifle at enemy characters (wizards primarily) Yep Outriders ROCK!!!

Offline Tiny

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 12:36:52 PM »
The repeater pistol was to make sure they always shoot at short range as a charge reaction. 31 s4 armour piercing shots at (I think) 4+ to hit should give them a chance against most things. HLR is worth a try also, but costs more points.

Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 01:40:10 AM »
The repeater pistol only has a 10 inch range. Keep the repeator Handgun that he comes with instead if you are worried about points. If you dont mow down  whats left of the enemy before they declare a charge with that many shots then the only choice is stand and shoot or voluntarily FLEE!!! My two 10 man Outrider units have been extremely successful thus far!!!THEY STAND AND DELIVER!!!! PRAISE SIGMAR!!!

Offline Wareagle

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 11:06:39 PM »
Nice and solid list. Drop the hell-blaster for a great cannon and spend the 10 points on something for your wp's.
I know the HB is not only stylish but can also create carnage - but more often on your side then at enemies units.

However, "she" still has some great psycho - value..... 

Drop the Champ in the Outriders. Waste of points.

Offline Avestron

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Re: First Empire List 2500pts
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 04:05:29 PM »
Nice list - however I would consider switching an artillary piece for an engineer - your four pieces warrant two - you could use the extra points saved on upgrading any surviving artillary pieces - or other stuff.