Topic: "MINOR" (Important) rules that New Players forget...

[Johann Q Peasant]

My fellow Generals,

The purpose of this thread is to make a list of obscure rules that New guys (I count myself amongst them) forget, and thus make it harder for them to win games.  Please add to this list any rules you see people forgetting! Please add rules for Specific Armies too! I'll add to this myself over and over, I figure... Here goes:

 EASILY FORGOTTEN MINOR RULES THAT WIND UP BEING IMPORTANT

From Johann Q Peasant:
1.  Remember, Cavalry is Immune to stomp and thunderstomp, but Not Impact hits. Also, Chariot crews/beasts CANNOT stomp.

2. In CC, you can assign infantry in base contact to attack Enemy unit champions, just as you can Special characters. (assign them all attacks towards the champ at the same time, not one by one. Extra Wounds will not carry over to the rank & file.)

3. A unit ONLY has to take a panic check once per each turn phase(magic,shooting, etc), even if there are multiple reasons too.

From Jadin :

 Unless in combat, all units must remain an inch apart at all times, friend or foe.
                          add on from Odominius : Unless you are charging then you ignore the 1" rule.

From Odominius :
Flaming attacks cause fear in cav.

You must kill both rider and mount to get VP. KF on drag, Seer on Bell, etc.

Ranks are calculated after the combat.

From Delthos :

Remembering that your opponents have Frenzy and they have to attempt a charge as soon as they are in potential range of a charge, unless they make a Leadership test. With the new random charge ranges, this means that, depending on the unit, a unit is in range when they are within 20" or even more for some units, while a majority are about 16". It can make a big difference as it can actually slow down those units if they fail their charge, which at long range is likely.

From Fluffy1 :

most people forget that calvary charging building count as being on foot and wont get their mount. buildings are great places for war machines, cause they get shoved off if they dont kill you letting you shoot.

From Zerotwentythree :

All of the reform rules. They are game winners and even experienced players are still not used to them in this edition.

From ILoseAtLife :

1) Charging bonuses do not stack.  +1 is the max

2) For rank bonuses, you only need 5 models per rank - even if you are in horde formation.

3) It is possible for a wizard to continue to cast magic even if he miscasted earlier in the magic phase.

4) +1 combat res for charging downhilll!

5)  Models with Frenzy cannot parry save

6) Magic shields and magic weapons cannot be used for parry saves

From CannonofDoom :

Random move monsters (spawn, Abomination, Doomwheel) do not allow charge reactions. You may only hold when they hit you.

Warmachines that fail panic do not run away, they simply cannot shoot in the following shooting phase.

Terror is a panic test now, followed by fear checks in combat.

From Fandir Nightshade (stolen from another thread, but I believe it should be posted here.)

when engaging a Skaven Grey Seer

(if in a unit) Also he can only scurry back if you challenge him....most Skaven player just move back at the beginning of cc that is wrong.


More to come! PLEASE ADD TO THIS LIST! Thank you to all who contribute.


Note: As Forum Members add to the thread, I'll post them in the first one.

[Siberius]

Not to divert the thread too much hopefully, but on your second point. I know you can do this, but it's made me wonder, do you have to declare how many are attacking the champion from the get go, or can you go through one guy at a time until someone kills him, so as not to waste attacks. I usually just ignore attacking the champion cos I'm not sure which is right, and it seems a pain in the butt to either take each guy in turn, or indeed to put a few attacks on him to be safe, only to find you kill him 3 times over and the wound combat resolution is wasted...

This kinda goes for attacking characters too...

[Jadin]

Unless in combat, all units must remain an inch apart at all times, friend or foe.

[Odominus]

Flaming attacks cause fear in cav.

You must kill both rider and mount to get VP. KF on drag, Seer on Bell, etc.

Ranks are calculated after the combat.

Unless in combat, all units must remain an inch apart at all times, friend or foe.

Unless you are charging then you ignore the 1" rule. I learned this the hard way and it cost me winning Ards lol

[Benedictus]

Not to divert the thread too much hopefully, but on your second point. I know you can do this, but it's made me wonder, do you have to declare how many are attacking the champion from the get go, or can you go through one guy at a time until someone kills him, so as not to waste attacks.

All attacks at the same initiative are made at the same time. If three guys attack the champion and overkill him, then those three guys swarmed the poor bastard. Otherwise you have some chaps attacking before other chaps, despite having the same I value.

[Delthos]

Remembering that your opponents have Frenzy and they have to attempt a charge as soon as they are in potential range of a charge, unless they make a Leadership test. With the new random charge ranges, this means that, depending on the unit, a unit is in range when they are within 20" or even more for some units, while a majority are about 16". It can make a big difference as it can actually slow down those units if they fail their charge, which at long range is likely.

[Fluffy1]

most people forget that calvary charging building count as being on foot and wont get their mount. buildings are great places for war machines, cause they get shoved off if they dont kill you letting you shoot.

[ZeroTwentythree]

All of the reform rules. They are game winners and even experienced players are still not used to them in this edition.

[Johann Q Peasant]

Good stuff so far! Lets keep it up!
 

[ILoseAtLife]

Nice thread idea.  These are some rules that I have had trouble remembering in the past. 

1) Charging bonuses do not stack from multiple charges.  +1 is the max

2) For rank bonuses, you only need 5 models per rank - even if you are in horde formation.

3) It is possible for a wizard to continue to cast magic even if he miscasted earlier in the magic phase.

4) +1 combat res for charging downhilll!

5)  Models with Frenzy cannot parry save

6) Magic shields and magic weapons cannot be used for parry saves

[Cannonofdoom]

Some that people in my group often forget:

Random move monsters (spawn, Abomination, Doomwheel) do not allow charge reactions. You may only hold when they hit you.

Warmachines that fail panic do not run away, they simply cannot shoot in the following shooting phase.

Terror is a panic test now, followed by fear checks in combat.

[Joasht]

We should also add a list of non-Empire rules that other people conveniently "forget" about, especially those from the less predictable/reliable races such as O&G and Skaven so that theres a lower chance of being lied to.....

[Sigurd Rose]

All of the reform rules. They are game winners and even experienced players are still not used to them in this edition.

The Reform rules are what I personally forget all the time, always have, and I have been playing since the year 2000. 

 

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Not a single rule as such but terrain. I forgot about the Blood Keep's effects in two successive games...

[Johann Q Peasant]

We should also add a list of non-Empire rules that other people conveniently "forget" about, especially those from the less predictable/reliable races such as O&G and Skaven so that theres a lower chance of being lied to.....

If you know of some, please add them! This is a big one!

[EmpireJohnny72]

From Johann Q Peasant:
1.  Remember, Cavalry is Immune to stomp and thunder stomp, but Not Impact hits. Also, Chariot crews/beasts CANNOT stomp.

I know the people i play will question this since they dont use cav and do use thunder stomp monsters.  I am looking at the cav section and i cant see where it says cav is immune to stomp.

In the stomp section its says it effects inf swarms and war beasts

I know they will say that war beast equals a horse so cav is subject to stomp attacks

Thanks, and ill keep looking

[Johann Q Peasant]

From Johann Q Peasant:
1.  Remember, Cavalry is Immune to stomp and thunder stomp, but Not Impact hits. Also, Chariot crews/beasts CANNOT stomp.

I know the people i play will question this since they dont use cav and do use thunder stomp monsters.  I am looking at the cav section and i cant see where it says cav is immune to stomp.

In the stomp section its says it effects inf swarms and war beasts

I know they will say that war beast equals a horse so cav is subject to stomp attacks

Thanks, and ill keep looking

When they Say "war beasts, they are referring to Beasts like Dire Wolves, Chaos Hounds, etc.  These are different than Cavalry.l

[EmpireJohnny72]

I am not sure that will do... is there any where in the BRB or FAQs or errata that say they are not effected by stomp?

I appreciate the help,  these players wont take a roundabout justification for the loss of thunder stomp tho

they will argue if war beasts are effected and infantry is effected than a infantry on a war beasts is effected

[Perforated]

From Johann Q Peasant: In CC, you can assign infantry in base contact to attack Enemy unit champions, just as you can Special characters. (assign them all attacks towards the champ at the same time, not one by one. Overkill CAN occur)

This is wrong, the rule book clearly states that excess wounds from attacks assigned at a unit champion are wasted (p. 93).

[Johann Q Peasant]

From Johann Q Peasant: In CC, you can assign infantry in base contact to attack Enemy unit champions, just as you can Special characters. (assign them all attacks towards the champ at the same time, not one by one. Overkill CAN occur)

This is wrong, the rule book clearly states that excess wounds from attacks assigned at a unit champion are wasted (p. 93).

This is a misspeak by me.  I did not mean the combat resolution Overkill, I meant overkill as in the Attacks are wasted.  That was my mistake. 

I am not sure that will do... is there any where in the BRB or FAQs or errata that say they are not effected by stomp?

I appreciate the help,  these players wont take a roundabout justification for the loss of thunder stomp tho

they will argue if war beasts are effected and infantry is effected than a infantry on a war beasts is effected

Its not a roundabout justification.  On page 84. it lists the troop type "war beasts". These are different than cavalry. (unless being used by a character as a mount. ). 

On pag. 76, "Stomp"special rule:  ... inflicts 1 auto hit , at the model's strength one  one enemy infantry, warbeasts, or swarm unit in base contact with the model.     Thunderstomp is treated as a normal stomp, only with D6 hits.

Its not roundabout at all.  Its the same reason monsterous infantry and monsters are not affected by thunderstomp.  If they complaina about it, hit them with the rulebook.  Sideways, right at their nose.  Or say that your great cannon also gets to use the 5"inch template, because its not like the rulebook explicitly says it doesnt...

[Lord Solar Plexus]

EmpireJohnny72, every unit is classified as something. Stomp affects certain classes, namely those which are explicitly spelled out in that rule, and no others. There is no rule that allows to stomp cavalry (or monsters etc.). Re-classifying cavalry as war beasts is utter nonsense. Just classify your infantry as monsters then, it's just as arbitrary.   

[EmpireJohnny72]

Thank you, Lord Solar Plexus and Johann Q Peasant,  I will not budge on the issue and stick show them the entry under stomp where cav isnt listed as valid target.

Many knights have met their end to the vargaleth and its thunder stomp

[Johann Q Peasant]

Glad to help, EmpireJohnny.  Immunity from the stomp attacks is what makes Cavalry excellent Monster hunters.

[Johann Q Peasant]

Hey! Quick Question...



Can WarMachines use "stand and shoot" as a Reaction to a charge?

[Kimiko]

they are slow to fire, so no.