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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Exploiting Flying Columns
« Last post by Hoffa on Today at 11:27:08 AM »
This is why I'm becoming more and more against applying RAW on the ToW rules. The rules are so loose with terminology. Someone obviously didn't realize that being able to claim bonus for a maximum of two ranks and being able to claim a maximum rankbonus of +2 is not the same thing. (Or perhaps the rules for the Griffion standard were written and then some one changed the wording in the rulebook without considering what impact this might have)

This is annoying because I think ToW at the core is a great game and the 8:th edition GW should have released instead of the one they did. Unfortunately we do not get to play this game due to badly written rules getting in the way.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / The Two Ways to Tourney
« Last post by Clymer on Today at 11:22:16 AM »
Well, there’s probably more than two ways to do tournaments, but then you don’t get a nice alliteration.

Anyway, reading the other threads got me wondering how people approach tournaments. For me there are two ways, but maybe you have other ways, I’d love to hear what you do and why.

My two ways are:

1: Pick the models that I want and then try like hell to maximize them, even though they may not be the optimal army build. This is a good approach that usually nets me a winning record, but never a top 10 spot. The upside though is that I only ever end up with one game against the super-optimized-tournament net lists. Usually end up in the middle tables playing against strong opponents with interesting armies that aren’t too over the top. It’s usually an overall satisfying experience.

2: Pick the units that I know are the hardest and build an army around them. This usually gets better results and can lead to a lot more fun shit talk and just a different kind of fun interaction altogether and of course the competition for a top spot is pretty engaging and it’s own kind of fun. And with Empire, it’s a struggle to get a top tournament spot. Yes, I think Empire is strong and can get a solid win rate, but the way tournament scoring and scenarios work, they often play against Empire’s strengths and require crushing victories. I find that even though Empire can win more often than not, it doesn’t have enough punch to table opponents every time. And, the down  side to this approach is that inevitably I run into someone who isn’t prepared for that kind of play and I feel like I’ve gone out and ruined someone’s day by clubbing them like a defenseless baby seal.

Anyway, I hate the seal hunter feeling enough that I rarely tool up completely, usually self-imposing some kind of restriction. But I’m wondering if people have had similar experiences, how you all approach tournament lists, or if you have other ideas or approaches.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Exploiting Flying Columns
« Last post by commandant on Today at 09:12:50 AM »
Griffin banner is worthless. Better just spend the points on more bodies since RAW you only get the bonus for the first rank since it's still capped. Might as well just take a war banner.

What? How are you concluding this?

BRB page 105, "**Note that in some cases the maximum Rank Bonus a unit can claim can be increased by special rules."

Griffon Standard, "...a unit carrying the Griffon Standard can claim a rank bonus of +2 for each extra rank behind the first, rather than the usual +1."

I can't see any way to read it the way you are interpreting it.

The problem is that the banner doesn't grant an increase to the maximum rank bonus. So you get +2 per rank as you say, but you're still capped at a maximum rank bonus based on your unit type.

I agree RAI it is meant to work as it has in every other edition, but RAW it doesn't. Compare to the Horde rule which is explicit in allowing increased rank bonus above the maximum.

Sure you are capped at the rank bonus of your troop type, which is +2 for infantry and +1 for cav and so on.

Though if you had it on a unit with the horde rule it would be +3 if infantry and +2 for cav and so on.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Exploiting Flying Columns
« Last post by PowerSeries on Today at 03:06:05 AM »
Anyways, you were the one to put it in your list in the OP.

What else are you going to do with the flying block?  It's still only one unit.
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@Minsc. I almost agree. The part of the faq that is causing the problems is this

"In other words, the combat is ongoing"

Before this "everyone" thought that combat after FBIGO was a new combat that stared on combat round 1. This part of the faq changed it so that combat after FBIGO is not a new combat and instead the old combat continues with another round. .

I did not think that. Nor did my gaming group. We played FBIGO as the same combat so things like challenges that were unresolved were still locked in.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Exploiting Flying Columns
« Last post by The Peacemaker on Today at 02:25:10 AM »
Yep. RAI is unclear too since the horde rule is explicit. ...they couldn't copy-paste?
So we go with RAW which means it hits the max rank bonus from 1 rank. So you pay 50pts for something you can get vy simply spending those points on more bodies.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Exploiting Flying Columns
« Last post by Dazgrim on March 28, 2024, 11:13:15 PM »
Griffin banner is worthless. Better just spend the points on more bodies since RAW you only get the bonus for the first rank since it's still capped. Might as well just take a war banner.

What? How are you concluding this?

BRB page 105, "**Note that in some cases the maximum Rank Bonus a unit can claim can be increased by special rules."

Griffon Standard, "...a unit carrying the Griffon Standard can claim a rank bonus of +2 for each extra rank behind the first, rather than the usual +1."

I can't see any way to read it the way you are interpreting it.

The problem is that the banner doesn't grant an increase to the maximum rank bonus. So you get +2 per rank as you say, but you're still capped at a maximum rank bonus based on your unit type.

I agree RAI it is meant to work as it has in every other edition, but RAW it doesn't. Compare to the Horde rule which is explicit in allowing increased rank bonus above the maximum.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Another Lance and FBIGO discussion
« Last post by Hoffa on March 28, 2024, 09:12:49 PM »
Exactly it is the key and everything else is GW wordiness. They could have answered the change weapons question with:

No, unless forced to by some rule. (Combat after FBIGO is not a new combat)

It would still leave us with the lance mess but that is really a problem with the lance rule and not this FBIGO ruling. There really need to be a faq on lances clarifying it the intent is they can be used after the first round of combat.

(My fear is that GW would answer that question with. No, lances require that the wielders charged this turn.)
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The Brush and Palette / Re: Greetings!
« Last post by RaptorusRex on March 28, 2024, 07:25:06 PM »
General On "Griffon".

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