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Author Topic: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .  (Read 65982 times)

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #425 on: March 03, 2020, 04:29:35 AM »
That was a kickstarter, although I am told they had to change the title.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

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Offline Midaski

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #426 on: March 03, 2020, 08:36:55 AM »
Funnily enough I am working on those MOM figures at the moment.

Resin and they need a fair amount of work to prep them and some of the joints need some thought as the supposed 'lug' to 'hole' set up doesn't work very well, so I have pinned most joints, and somehow I am missing a pistol arm and a sword arm.
It may be me "clearing up" and accidentally binning them, but not convinced.

I feel they would fit all sorts of themes - Marienburg is a contender, but several would suit Estalia, or Tilea, and then there are plainer figures for other provinces, or even pirates.
A skirmish band is easy, but then front rank commanders fits as well.
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Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #427 on: March 04, 2020, 03:01:48 AM »
What? No one has anything to say about my new Empire army lists?!? What are you, afraid? Worried that my armies and theme will dominate the battlefield? Yeah I bet you all are scared.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #428 on: March 05, 2020, 01:49:38 AM »
Sorry, been busy again.

I like the lists, however minor change would be to swap out the hunstmen into the middenhiem list. Model-wise, if its the new fancy archers with puffy sleeves, I get it though.
Probably means swaping out the Mortar into the Marienburg list, which is fine. Means they will play way differently from the other two. Middenhiem IMO should have the most bodies. Points wise - how do they stack up? Middenhiem might be cheaper than the other two? Perhaps add in a captain too? Or if you have the models, a 10 man swordmen unit? If you have left over White Wolf hammer arms, they could work on infantry as swordsmen? I have 40 of those myself  :happy:
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Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #429 on: March 05, 2020, 05:41:56 PM »
Well what I have is all I have, not buying any more so have to make do with what I got.

I am curious about your statement on Middlenhiem having the most bodies... is there a reason behind this fluff-wise?

The archers I have are the fancy Huntsmen - and thought they would look cool with the Marienburgs, since they are pretty pimped out looking. But another reason is that I only had one artillery piece to give to Marienburg, and gave them the fancy one, but thought giving them another shooty unit would help balance them out with the others.

If you think the Huntsman should go to Middenhiem I am open to that. But feel like a cannon should go elsewhere then.

BTW I have been calling them Middleheim hahaha why don't you guys tell me these things.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #430 on: March 05, 2020, 05:45:47 PM »
Someone did.   :icon_wink:

Here it is, and with your reply ...

By the way, Middenheim is a city in Middenland, Middenland is the province.
Ah ok.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #431 on: March 05, 2020, 06:03:06 PM »
lol

Maybe I have to be told the same thing a few times.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #432 on: March 05, 2020, 06:29:29 PM »
No big deal.  Middleheim is close. :icon_wink:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Warlord

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #433 on: March 05, 2020, 09:31:51 PM »
So fluffwise, the compared to Marienburg and Reikland, Middenheim would be more likely to throw bodies rather than artillery at an enemy. Nuln is far away (next to Reikland), and Marienburg have all the money so can buy whatever they like. Middenhiem is wealthy, and have artillery of course. The old ‘Army of Middenheim’ armybox came with a Mortar, 2 sets of knights, state troops, free company and Tuetogen Guard (Hammerers). So Mortar fits fine. And cannon is fine too. They just prefer fighting bodies.

Their culture is a little more like the Starks from Game of Thrones IMO. An honest fight is preferrable. Rough huntsmen suit then. Fancy huntsmen I agree belong in either of the other provinces.

I am just looking at the Middenheim and Reikland list, and thinking about how each could play differently because their composition is so similar. The points should be less in the Middenheim list, which should allow at least another captain or you to grab those Marienburg spears for extra bodies?
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Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #434 on: April 10, 2020, 01:33:39 PM »
Well, its been awhile and I do have some final updates.

I spent a lot of time thinking about my collection. I did what I tend to do with hobbies, I overbought. And trying to decide what to do with the army compositions and so forth really drove me nuts. And since I had decided on using 6th + RH as my ruleset, I didn't think I needed the 7th and 8th starter sets, and I almost got rid of them - thank god I didn't. One night I realized I could keep those sets as the basis for the small armies I wanted to do, and then use the Battalion sets to build these armies as they should be (like many of you said to do)

I know it seems like I over thought this a lot, but its a pretty big deal as I prefer my life to be organized and the things that are in it having a purpose, and it was just all a big mess.

I also started painting my Empire starter army, and that was a complete disaster. I havent painted a lot of faces in awhile, and decided to follow GW's tutorial on youtube to do it, and for the most part that went ok, but when it came to eyes I just f'ed it all up. I also realized that trying to paint like an assembly line doesnt work for me, the work was getting sloppy, and I am just going to have to do things the way I am more comfortable with. But I really butchered some of the models and decided to strip many of them to start over.

I also changed the make up of the Empire and Orc starter armies to reflect more with what came in the starter set.

I am also just about done with the regimental bases for everyone in those starter sets too.

So basically I am focusing on working on what came in the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets, and keeping the Battalion sets for later. I am building those units as they came in those sets, so not splitting up a unit of 20 into two units of 10 like I originally intended. I think the starter sets allow me to take both approaches.

I can't say enough about the 7th starter set. Its probably the best starter GW ever did with WFB. And that being said, 8th is a complete disaster. I am assuming whoever they put in charge of that was either new or a criminal. No wonder they introduced the End of Times thereafter. I can't see how that set sucked in new players. The models are amazing, but without a proper getting started manual, people had to have been like - what the f.

But the 6th rulebook is so comprehensive its become my bible. I am very impressed with 6th and the love GW gave it. The same can be said about 3rd for 40k.

I thought about hunting down a copy of 4th or 5th, but I dislike many of those early WFB models. I think the 4th looks more interesting, but I have enough as it is.

Speaking of that, I am going with only 2 Empire projects instead of the 3 I had planned - so going with Reikland and Marienburg. The only reason I was doing Middenheim was for the Knights of the White Wolf, but I am not really drawn to them as an army, and wouldn't mind getting rid of some things. I think Reikland and Marienburg have enough contrast to keep things interesting. This also means both are probbaly going to get 8 knights each as opposed to the 5 as I planned.

So the plan is to take another go at painting what came in the starter sets (with more patience this time), which are all built and primed now, and play some games with all of them.

Anyway, thanks for all your help sorting through this. Over these pages I know I went all over the place trying to figure a path through all this, and are pretty happy with where I ended up. I have some small armies for quick games and to learn the rules, and Battalion sets to build some slightly bigger armies as the game was intended down the road. I bought a little too much so have a little selling to do, but in the end I ended up with just what I wanted.

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #435 on: April 10, 2020, 04:02:33 PM »
Oh btw, talking about buying too much. I actually scored 3 metal Skaven Jezzail teams - who have never seen a lick of paint, for $10 each! I have wanted these guys for some time, but they are usually pretty pricey. I was able to get two different gun models, two different 2nd crew members, and 3 different shields, so some nice variety. They will be added to my Battalion set.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #436 on: April 10, 2020, 04:11:33 PM »
See ... still buying ... you're as bad as many of us. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Vincent of Vega

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #437 on: April 11, 2020, 04:56:10 PM »
To save me reading through 18 pages.   Have you actually played any games yet?  If so, how did you get on?
..Alex

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #438 on: April 13, 2020, 12:19:40 PM »
To save me reading through 18 pages.   Have you actually played any games yet?  If so, how did you get on?

That's not scheduled to come up until page 37. Come on man, we're on a schedule here. Don't rush.

You should read through the previous pages. Lots of insightful articles, rambling posts, switching back and forth between plans multiple times, questions with obvious answers, and pics! Everyone likes pics.

Truthfully, the most I have done is walk through the getting started rules for Skull Pass. I found GW's old site and online tutorials on the web's WayBack machine, and saved everything I could on PDF, and have been going through that. I'll only mostly assembled and primed whats in the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter (along with some other units), in addition to the heros I posted earlier. The reason this has been slow going is (1) time, (2) I really struggled how to build my armies, and (3) I really wanted to have my first 2 armies properly painted before doing a battle report. I totally botched my first attempt at painting my first army and are sort of starting over.

It's a marathon not a sprint!

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #439 on: April 13, 2020, 01:01:19 PM »
To save me reading through 18 pages.   Have you actually played any games yet?  If so, how did you get on?
That's not scheduled to come up until page 37. Come on man, we're on a schedule here. Don't rush.
The the question remains ... will you stay on schedule or not?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #440 on: April 13, 2020, 01:10:12 PM »
Come on... probably not. Have I appeared consistent up to this point? I certainly dont think so.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #441 on: April 13, 2020, 01:20:48 PM »
There we go.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Borderguy190

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #442 on: April 21, 2020, 07:34:21 PM »
Your project is crazy in its ambition, flawed in in its execution, and glorious to behold!  All those purchases are most wonderful.  You dropped a fair pile of Imperial coin!

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #443 on: April 24, 2020, 07:50:34 PM »
Flawed in its execution how dare you. Everything is going according to plan!

No I know I am terrible and all over the place. I have some news tho! I have made some good progress!

But first! Let me introduce you to a project I just completed:


EDIT: Dammit, these pics are showing a lot of imperfections I didn't see with the naked eye that I will have to fix.

What you are looking at is about a 1/300 scale Dom Prototype from Gundam MSV. How big is this guy you ask? Well here he is next to my Empire General.


I've actually mentioned these little kits before somewhere in this thread, but I will recap below.

Now me and the Dom Prototype go way back. As a matter of fact, my mom recently gave me a box of old pics and in it was this one:


That's me opening presents during one of my birthdays back in the day when I was living in Hong Kong, and my friend Duncan (not in the pic), gave me 1/100 scale kits for the Dom Prototype and Zaku Cannon. These kits here: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212242 and https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10166810.

Anyway, I was big into Gundam then and was pretty much until recent years. Anyway, I had a hard time finishing big kits and the 1/100 scale ones are pretty big. Hell, I have a hard time finishing their 1/144 counterparts, like I have here:


The larger kit is actually an old 1/144 Dom Prototype (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10005621) kitbashed with a newer 1/144 Dom (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10046847). The older kits do not use polycaps, which are rubber like joints that keep the plastic from wearing away. I love posing my finished kits and its a real bummer then suddenly the elbow can no longer support the weight of the gun. I have used all sorts of methods to get around this from using plumber tape to green stuff to superglue to jam some material in there to prevent the plastic from wearing down, but lately I have just been combining kits. So the pics don't show it, but the chest, shoulders, backpack, head, belong to the older generation kit, while the arms, legs, and bazooka are from the newer generation Dom. Now, why not just make a newer generation 1/144 Prototype Dom? Well, they haven't released one, so I did this.

I am actually better at building than painting but even I was impressed how the build came out. You would never know holding it that I broke up a lot of plastic to get this kit to fit together, then filled the spaces and did a lot of sanding.

Anyway, as you are well aware, I have a hard time finishing projects in the painting stage, and size does matter. So I collect a lot of smaller kits, which is how we get back to the smaller 1/300 version.

When I lived in Asia, there was a Japanese company called Morinaga that released small model kits with candy. The models were small, snapped together, and included robots from various popular anime at the time, for about $1 each. I had tons of these, and in my youth, spent a lot of time shooting them with BB guns, blowing them up with firecrackers, or just setting them on fire. I was a total maniac.

Anyway, when I moved back to the states, reality hit me that I could no longer get all these things I took for granted, and I was really bummed out. Many years later, I found someone in Japan via eBay how said he would help me get some of these kits in Japan. Mostly through Yahoo Japan Auctions. After a ridiculous amount of money that I would rather not admit, I now have too many of these to ever hope to finish. Here is a small sample:


Here is the Dom next to the one I showed earlier on in the thread.


These little kits are great as they kind of satisfy the need to build the design, without having to build a bigger kit, which I then have to find room for. And sometimes you can make little kitbash kits with them too which is always fun.

Anyway, so on to Warhammer Fantasy.

So we all know I have been all over the place buying up units to supplement the models I got in the starter sets and Battalion sets. We also know how insistent I was on sticking to minimum unit sizes. I decided pretty early on that I would use 6th for my rules, and sort of just built the remaining starter models to supplement the Battalion sets. I was so set on 6th I actually moved the 7th and 8th stuff to my store room where I put stuff to be listed on eBay. Not the models, just the boxes and books and all that.

Then I was watching old youtube vids one night showing battle reports using the starter sets, and soon after found on the internet wayback machine, the original GW pages for 7th edition, and the additional scenarios for Skull Pass. I've been a big fan of this set, and so I was happy to see the new info. But I didn't think much of it until I laid to go to sleep when it hit me: Build all the starter sets as they were released and just keep them. Who knows I might really like one of the other editions more. And I have plenty of models. The idea originally was to build small armies, using minimum unit sizes, and play small games, but then I got the Battalion sets and expanded on those, so in some cases I had all these models in some cases really didn't think I needed.

So I jumped out of bed, put everything that belonged in each set back into their boxes, but realized I made a mess of the 6th edition starter armies, which I covered a lot in this thread. So the next day I went on eBay trying to buy BACK some of the models I previously got rid of, to make the starter armies look like they originally came. And I have to be honest, I made a real mess of the Empire 'starter' army I posted when I started painting. So much that I am going to salvage my old swordsmen for parts.

So after a lot of work, I am back to where I started. I added cavalry and a wizard to the mix so they would essentially compare to the other starter armies in 7th and 8th. And, I am sure many of you are happy to see, are using the spearmen as a 20-man unit.



And same with the Orcs. The idea is to try to make the armies similar so I could have a fight between the 6th starter Empire and the 8th starter Skaven. I do have an extra standard and musician to fill out another unit if need be, as the 7th and 8th have them for all the units.

I don't know how tough a 20 unit Orc regiment is though. They look pretty intimidating, but its sort of what was intended (the original set came with 18 but I rounded it up. Actually, I rounded up to 10 or 20 with all of them. But I don't know how the 20 Orcs stack up going against the 10-man Dwarf Warrior unit for example. And can a chariot charge a unit of 20 spearmen and survive?



I don't have it on him in the pics, but decided to give the Warboss the face mask he came with. Early on I posted I would leave it off, but decided I have enough Orc faces to look at.

Also, I discovered when assembling the older style Boar Boys that the riders were too wide to line the bases up, and it really bothered me. So I made a base specific to them with the groves so I could just slide the models in place and not have to worry about them sliding.


I know seems trivial but it really annoyed me.

So there you go. I feel really good about this now. I think before I didn't know anything about anything and was all over the place without a plan trying to find my way, but not knowing what I was doing really kept me moving forward because I couldn't conceptualize what the hell I was doing. Now I have 6 completed (built-wise) start armies that appear in similar strength with all of there regiment bases done, so I am ready to play the starter sets as intended, and then mix up the armies when I have a better grasp of what's going on. I am going to try out the scenarios for 7th first since they are pretty much step by step then go from there.

The Empire starter army will be painted as Talabheim, and still planning on doing Reikland and Marienburg later on using the Battalion sets.

I wish I had done this in the beginning and saved myself 16 pages of posts.

I have some terrain to work on too, and will get enough built to play some games with and hopefully do a battle report! Small battle that is. Maybe combine them all to make a big one.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 11:48:53 PM by KTG17 »

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #444 on: April 24, 2020, 08:23:34 PM »
Oh, one more thing. Last summer I discovered https://www.thearmypainter.com/ products at a couple of hobby stores, loved what they were doing, and loved their brushes. I spent a ton of money buying up a variety of their products and sat down to use them for the first time when I started painting my 'first' Empire starter army, and the brushes were terrible. Well, not all of them, but the smaller ones for detail were a major disappointment and I blame for most of the problems I had. I don't want to say all of their products aren't good, because I do like a lot of them, but the smaller brushes I have are bad enough to not bother trying again. I usually buy brushes at art stores and actually hate looking through various brands and sizes to try to find everything I need, so I was really hoping these in particular were going to work out and they would be my go-to brand. But unfortunately its back to Michaels in hopes of finding what I need.

Unless you guys have some brands your recommend. I mean, brands that blow you away on quality. I am not looking for average brushes.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #445 on: April 25, 2020, 12:07:59 AM »
Quite the collection of robots there.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Novogord

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #446 on: May 05, 2020, 08:18:07 PM »
Unless you guys have some brands your recommend. I mean, brands that blow you away on quality. I am not looking for average brushes.
I use Da Vinci - Harbin Kolinsky brushes, and I must say that I really like them.
But the Rotmarder-Kollinsky JR Products are good brushes, which also have an easy shaft to handel.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #447 on: May 06, 2020, 06:19:11 AM »
ATM, my working brushes are:
- 3 Feldherr Kolinsky (nice handle)
- 2 Roubloff Kolinsky
- 1 kolibri Kolinsky
- 0 V & P (30 yrs old, I don't know what it is)

Plus various brushes for drybrushing and metals. The old Citadel detail brushes from late 90's and early 2000's have kept surprisingly well. Proably because I don't use them that much.

My brushes tend to wear off fast, because I'm using drybrushing a lot, and often forget to change the brush when changing the technique.

Agree the ArmyPainter brushes are low quality. They lose their tip fast, and the synthetic ones have a tendency to create a bend that doesn't straighten (with my tools, at least).

-Z
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #448 on: May 10, 2020, 02:43:22 PM »
As you expect, I am pleased with your decision to increase core unit sizes for horde type units.
I think your army compositions are great though - both Orcs and Goblins armies will struggle to kill the High Elf Griffon, but its possible with massed shooting and/or combat resolution luck. Dwarves may struggle against the Orcs because of numbers and orc toughness. Otherwise should be fine. Consider upsizing the Dwarf warrior unit to 15 or 20, and miners up to 10.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline KTG17

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Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
« Reply #449 on: May 11, 2020, 12:55:31 PM »
As you expect, I am pleased with your decision to increase core unit sizes for horde type units.

lol yeah I thought of you when I was making the movement tray. I have to admit I do like how the larger units look.

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I think your army compositions are great though - both Orcs and Goblins armies will struggle to kill the High Elf Griffon, but its possible with massed shooting and/or combat resolution luck. Dwarves may struggle against the Orcs because of numbers and orc toughness. Otherwise should be fine. Consider upsizing the Dwarf warrior unit to 15 or 20, and miners up to 10.

Yeah I figured not all the starter armies would be a perfect match up, but I think it will help show me what works and what doesn't. Was the Elves and Skaven in Island of Blood even legal lists at the time?? I know in 40k about that time they were letting you play pretty much whatever you wanted, but the Elves seem to lack the 2 core minimum (I don't know - I dont have the 8th edition army book)

BTW I did get some tutorials games in using Skull Pass. It wasn't as complicated as I was expecting. I do have some confusion on how to line up units as they come from various directions. To my surprise the Goblins steamrolled the Dwarves much of the time if they got the the first punch in.

I don't know why GW initially included 12 warriors and 8 minors. I guess the guys making the models felt the rank size was still going to be 4 models, but 7th used 5. So I did take away 2 warriors and added 2 minors to round them out better, but yeah I agree the Dwarves might need another rank of warriors.

I didn't get crazy on the various units, so who knows how the entire army plays out.

Since I have these starter armies done, I am working on terrain now. Making some of the Citadel Wood that I have.

It didn't really dawn on my how long it would take me to assemble and paint these armies. I have barely touched whats in the some dozen Battalion sets. I am basically holding those for a long time investment in hobby time. Same with all I bought for 40k. No real regrets, just surprised. Maybe I am just slower and more of a prefectionist now.