Topic: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .

[KTG17]

So I know I will never play this, or even have the rules for it, so I am not sure what all it does, but I think this is one of the coolest WFB models I have seen:



What does it do? Is it just a chariot for wizard? There are two kinds as you know, but does anyone know the difference between them?



Has anyone gone up against a Black Dragon? It looks like it would be the most powerful unit in the game just on size. How does it play?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Both are 8th edition AB Arcane Battle Altars (or Wand Wagons, as I call them), which can be used as mounts for a Heavens or Light Wizard respectively, but also as units in their own right. The first one is the Celestial Hurricanum, adding a power die, giving all friendly units within 6"+1 to Hit. and also providing a rather meh spell. The second one is the Luminark of Hysh, adding a dispel die, giving all friendly units within 6" a 6+ ward save, and also providing a magical bolt thrower spell. The spell is better than the one of the Hurricanum, but rather superfluous, if you have one or more cannon (as you should have). Having a Wand Wagon as a mount for the respective Wizard does not add any specific benefit, other than those of a Ridden Monster.

[KTG17]

Assuming magic is in the 8th book (I know it’s overpowering), has anyone tried playing 6th or 7th edition rules with the 8th edition army books?

[Zygmund]

I've never heard anybody trying out 7th ed BRB with 8th ed AB's. It could be interesting. At the very least, it would keep unit strength and curtail the number of attacks, which I think would help the game. It would also reduce the effectiveness of the monstrous units that have their own rules in the 8th and became common because of their crushing effectiveness. Then again, it might make those units unworthy. (IIRC, Ogre players weren't very happy about their army in the 7th ed, where there are no special rules for monstrous infantry.)

In general, the 8th ed AB's are even less balanced than the late 7th ed army books. The unbalance is both between the armies, and within the armies. For example, there is a wide agreement that the 8th ed Empire AB contains rubbish units and must-have units (if you want your army to prevail), and I believe this will not go away if you use the 7th ed BRB. This might not be a real problem if you play casual games with friends. But I think the 8th ed AB's make min-maxing more obvious and easier than the earlier editions' AB's.

If you like flirting with the 8th ed, I suggest you jump directly into the Ninth Age. The 1.1 is rebalanced 8th ed, and reintroduces some interesting units from the past Warhammer editions (Empire Foot Knights, Light Cavalry and Militia with pistols). The current 2.x has gone a bit further, but also cut back unit choices. You cannot find the 1.1 version online anymore, but hobbyists will be able to help you out. It's a very rules-lawyerish take on Warhammer, but still miles better than the 8th ed, methinks.

-Z

[KTG17]

I got you. I was just wondering how one might be able to play one of these kickass models if they weren't included in the previous editions. Like I would love to build one of those wizard chariots, but I wouldn't bother if I couldnt play it. And I am not crazy about mixing the rules for it with rules for the rest of my army in a previous edition.

I did look into 9th age btw. I almost bought a hardcopy book. But my problem was the army lists that I saw. Not only were they pretty limited, but some units had a huge model count and I was like, 'well I am never doing that'. I might have gone in that direction if not for that. But you know me by now, I am variety over quantity and I love small units for the flavors, not for winning if that makes sense.

BTW, I never saw the Empire Huntsmen until they were sold out. The models look a lot like they would be skirmishers. Even the name makes me feel like they would be. Did they become so?

[Artobans Ghost]

quote KTG17:I am variety over quantity and I love small units for the flavors, not for winning if that makes sense.

Same. I remember battles with a good friend. Crazy competitive but insanely nice. He had his nurgle nightmare against my fluffy elves. ‘Are you sure you want to go through with this?’
Good times

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Huntsmen are Scouts, and therefore also Skirmishers. Note that in the 6th and 7th edition, you had the option to upgrade Archers to Huntsmen.

[GamesPoet]

If playing 6th or 7th edition in a non-competitive situation, and I wanted to use one of the 8th edition Empire wizard machines, then I'd consider what the machine does with maybe scale it up or down in strength or points to have in an army.

[Warlord]

Agree. Just use the rules from 8th ed for it. Points to flavour. It is a rare choice or wizard mount.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

I must correct my previous statement somewhat: Huntsmen have both the Scouts and Skirmishers special rule. While AFAIK there are no Scouts without the Skirmishers special rule, the latter is not part of the former.

[KTG17]

Archers are skirmishers in Ravening Hordes! I missed that.

Man, I do with I had gotten those Huntsmen when they were for sale.

[GamesPoet]

Yep, the Huntsmen kit is a great one!  I have at least two unopened, maybe more, looking for others.

[Zygmund]

If playing 6th or 7th edition in a non-competitive situation, and I wanted to use one of the 8th edition Empire wizard machines, then I'd consider what the machine does with maybe scale it up or down in strength or points to have in an army.

This. You do have the 8th ed Empire AB? If not, somebody here can give you the idea of the wagon rules, and where the two versions differ.

Also sorry for my wall of text regarding the shields.

I think using the same type of shields on all of your infantry creates a very coherent, unified look. The older shields I would hang on the backs of the Halberdiers. Maybe, just to show frontally more of the shields, I'd add a couple who have not yet levelled their halberds into the fighting position, and are still carrying their shields.

-Z

[KTG17]

You do have the 8th ed Empire AB? If not, somebody here can give you the idea of the wagon rules, and where the two versions differ.

Also sorry for my wall of text regarding the shields.

I think using the same type of shields on all of your infantry creates a very coherent, unified look. The older shields I would hang on the backs of the Halberdiers. Maybe, just to show frontally more of the shields, I'd add a couple who have not yet levelled their halberds into the fighting position, and are still carrying their shields.

-Z

No, actually, and wasn't really planning on getting them. One of the things that drew me to 6th was Ravening Hordes. It really opened things up too, meaning there were so many armies covered in there that I could collect all that I have and have rules for them. If not for Ravening Hordes, that would mean I would have to hunt down all of the Army Books and for several reasons I didn't want to do that.

As far as the Halberds, thanks for all of the info. If I do mount them I guess it will be on their backs.

[KTG17]

Okay Ladies, here is a major update on what I have accumulated for my armies. Just the models and numbers, not getting into points again.

**********************
Empire (Newer models)
**********************

Heros: General (On Griffon, Horse, and Foot), Army Standard, Wizard (On Horse and Foot)
Core: 10 Swordsmen, 10 Halberdiers, 10 Handgunners, 5 Knightly Orders
Special: 10 Greatswords, Great Cannon, Mortar
Rare: Hellblaster Volley Gun

* Might get Flagellants (I think the models are interesting.



**********************
Orcs
**********************

Heros: Big Boss (On Boar and Foot), Army Standard, Shaman
Core: 10 Boyz with 2 Choppas, 10 Boyz with Spears, 10 Arrer Boyz
Special: 10 Black Orcs, 5 Boar Boyz, Stone Thrower, Chariot
Rare:
 


**********************
Dwarves
**********************

Heros: Thane, Army Standard, Troll Slayer, Rune Priest
Core: 10 Warriors, 10 Miners, 10 Thunderers
Special: Hammerers, Iron Breakers, Cannon
Rare: Gyrocopter



**********************
Goblins
**********************

Heros: Big Boss (On Horse and Foot), Army Standard, Shaman
Core: 20 Night Goblins with Spears, 20 Night Goblins with Spears, 20 Night Goblins with bows, 3 Fanatics
Special: 2 Bolt Throwers, 2 Wolf Chariots,
Rare: 20 Spider Riders, 3 River Trolls



**********************
High Elves
**********************

Heros: Commander (On Griffon, Horse, and Foot), Army Standard, Mage
Core: 10 Spearmen, 10 Seaguard, 5 Silver Helms
Special: 10 Swordsmasters, 5 Ellyrian Reavers
Rare: Repeater Bolt Thrower



**********************
Skaven
**********************

Heros: Chieftain, Army Standard, Warlock Engineer, Plague Priest
Core: 10 Clanrats with Halberds, 10 Clanrats with Halberds, 10 Clanrats with Swords, 10 Clanrats with Swords, 10 Stormvermin, 6 Giant Rats with Packmaster
Special: Plague Monks, Warpfire Team, Wind Mortar, 2 Rat Ogres with Packmaster
Rare: Doomwheel



**********************
Lizardmen
**********************

Heros: Saurus Hero, Skink Shaman, Skink Hero
Core: 10 Saurus Warriors with Spears, 10 Saurus Warriors, 8 Skink Skirmishers, Serpent Swarm
Special: 10 Temple Guard, 5 Cold One Riders
Rare:

* On the hunt for a Stegadon



**********************
Wood Elves
**********************

Heros: General, Army Standard, Mage
Core: 10 Glade Guard, 10 Archers
Special: 10 Dryads, 5 Scouts, 5 Glade Riders
Rare: Treeman



**********************
Chaos Warriors
**********************

Heros: Champion, Army Standard, Sorcerer, Marauder Chieftain (On Horse and Foot)
Core: 10 Chaos Warriors, 10 Marauders with Shields, 10 Marauders with Flails, 10 Chaos Hounds
Special: 5 Chaos Knights, Chaos Chariot
Rare:

* Looking into getting Marauder Horsemen. I really like the idea of a pure Marauder army too.


**********************
Bretonnians
**********************

Heros: Paladin (On Pegasus, Horse, and Foot), Army Standard, Wizard
Core: 5 Knights of the Realm, 10 Man-At-Arms, 10 Man-At-Arms, 10 Bowmen, 10 Bowmen
Special: 5 Squires Mounted
Rare:

* On the hunt for Questing Knights



**********************
Beastmen
**********************

Heros: Chieftain, Army Standard, Shaman
Core: 10 Gors with 2 Hand Weapons, 10 Gors with Shields, 10 Ungors with Spears and Shields, 10 Chaos Hounds
Special: 10 Beastigors, Chariot
Rare: 3 Minotuars



**********************
Dark Elves
**********************

Heros: Commander, Army Standard, Sorcerer
Core: 10 Dark Elf Warriors with Spears, 10 Dark Elf Warriors with Repeater Crossbows, 10 Corsairs with Extra Weapon, 10 Corsairs with Repeater Crossbows, 5 Dark Riders
Special: 5 Cold One Knights, 10 Black Guard
Rare: Repeater Bolt Thrower



**********************
Vampire Counts
**********************

Heros: Thrall, Wight Army Standard, Necromancer
Core: 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Zombies, 10 Zombies, 10 Ghouls, Bat Swarm
Special: 10 Dire Wolves, 10 Grave Guard, 5 Wight Cavalry
Rare: Black Coach

* May get a Banshee



**********************
Tomb Kings
**********************

Heros: Tomb Lord, Army Standard, Liche Priest
Core: 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Archers, 5 Skeleton Cavalry
Special: 3 Skeleton Charioteers
Rare:

* On the hunt for Tomb Guard and Screaming Skill Catapult



**********************
Ogre Kingdoms
**********************

Heros: Bruiser
Core: 3 Bulls, 3 Bulls, 3 Ironguts, 3 Ironguts, 20 Gnoblars, 20 Gnoblars
Special: 3 Leadbelchers
Rare:



**********************
Hobgoblins (Gnoblars)
**********************

Heros: Hero, Hero
Core: 10 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders, 10 Hobgoblins with Shields, 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hobgoblins with Bows, 10 Sneaky Gits
Special: Bolt Thrower
Rare:



I don't have many items left to buy. Just about all the necessary ones are bought, and the rest are really just nice to have's. Its been a crazy year of buying. From here on I might pick up a random unit here and there if the price is right, but I am just about past that nagging feeling on having to buy this or that. 

[Artobans Ghost]

I would say you have a full army list lol. There’s painting for 2 years or more at my rate. 
 

[KTG17]

I would say you have a full army list lol. There’s painting for 2 years or more at my rate. 
 

lol oh man I am thinking I will need 2 years just to assemble them, let alone paint anyone.

[GamesPoet]

Don't worry, your not the only folks with that issue.

[KTG17]

I wish to inform you that I have, through purchase, have acquired a set of plastic Mounted Marauders.

And I am very excited about that.

BTW I am only buying the old style Warhammer boxes. Not the generic white boxes and def not that Sigmar crap. Only WFB in its purest form.

Which typically ends up costing me a little more. 

[Artobans Ghost]

The marauder foot and horse were my favourites of the chaos units. I once had an idea to do a Norse army theme using the marauder models and a certain amount of converting. One of my warhammer buddies ( very successful competitive player) just kind of looked at me with the eyebrow raised frown and changed the subject. Still like the never-materialized dream.

[KTG17]

Yeah I have to be honest I think a pure Marauder army is even more chaos than a Chaos Warrior army. I think for my small games I am in pretty good shape with a Chieftain, two units of Marauders, the horsemen, and some hounds.

RH lists a Marauder Chariot, so guess that is on my list now. Did they ever make a plastic one? I have the Chaos Warrior one, but I think it is too over the top for a Marauder one.

Guess I can hit ebay...

[KTG17]

Ok so I spotted an old metal Chaos Chariot that looks smaller and wimpier than the newer plastic one that might do. I would just need a new crew I guess.

But honestly I feel like they would have something more primitive looking like an Orc or Beastmen chariot.

Will purchase something next month.

[GamesPoet]

Always liked the marauder figures for Chaos, and look forward to owning some.  I have some of the metal chaos archers recently bought.

[Warlord]

All your ‘to buy’ or ‘on the hunt’ are great.
Only things I would add would be:
Something rare for the orcs. Maybe giant?
More skinks for the lizardmen
Wardancers for the wood elves?
Scraplauncher for the ogres.

Perhaps a few other units here or there if you are exploring ranges and wanted another thing, but otherwise great stuff!

That said, if you feel adventurous.... consider if you wanted to split lizardment into a skink army and saurus army, and you could get yourself a slann...

[KTG17]

JUST PICKED UP A PLASTIC STEGADON IN THE OLD SCHOOL WARHAMMER BOX ON EBAY FOR $45 INCLUDING SHIPPING!!!! YES!!!

(I really prefer the older boxes versus the new AOS crap. Even if the models are the same. I am doing this old school or not at all.)

All your ‘to buy’ or ‘on the hunt’ are great.
Only things I would add would be:

Something rare for the orcs. Maybe giant? - I wasn't planning on this, but I have always thought the plastic models were brilliant. We will see.
More skinks for the lizardmen - I do like the skinks. But I have pretty much blown past 1000 points as it is.
Wardancers for the wood elves? - Same as above I think.
Scraplauncher for the ogres. - No rules for it in 6th. I guess I could consider just pulling the 8th rules. I don't know anything about this. How is it different than a Great Cannon?

That said, if you feel adventurous.... consider if you wanted to split lizardment into a skink army and saurus army, and you could get yourself a slann...

Yeah if there is any model I wish I could get, its the newer Slann model. I just love those guys. We'll see in a few months.

To be honest I am running close of getting too much stuff. When I get to this point I literally start feeling weighed down and want to sell stuff. I got the Dark Elf Dark Riders and I wasn't super crazy about the models, and I was like, I already have Cold Ones. But then I got the Marauder Horsemen and was excited again. Its going to take me forever to get to those guys, and I worry is that I am going to have all this crap sitting around and annoying me.