home

Author Topic: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.  (Read 2583 times)

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« on: December 23, 2015, 09:42:44 PM »
Some background: I’m GMing a long-running Tilean campaign for 6 players (lots of stuff in my campaign thread in the Imperial Office.) In a nutshell - there’s a lot more to this that will come out in the stories - an Empire player is trying to get a lot of wagons loaded with loot, guarded by a small force, back to a city. He is being pursued by a large force of ogres. The Empire player’s force would get utterly and completely ‘gubbed’ in a straight battle – but he’s not trying to fight a straight battle, he’s trying to escape a battle with the loot, by getting inside the protective walls of one of his cities.

Every campaign season I re-roll the 6 players’ initiative order. This season the Empire player has the initiative advantage over the Ogre player. Considering that alone, then he moves one hex and thus enters the city before the Ogres get to move. BUT the ogres move faster than the Empire player – their slowest speed (if the ditch their gnoblars) is 6” (doubled if marching); the Empire player’s slowest movement rate is 4” (no march move, i.e. the wagons). As I sat before my maps and notes I thought: 'I’ll toss a coin – do the wagons and their guards get into the city before the ogres catch them? If they do, all are inside. If they don’t, all are lost (loot and men).'

Then I remembered we’re meant to play the interesting games as tabletop battles. Doh! And I realised this would make for a great scenario.
The Ogres have 2600 points (including a Mournfang regiment, not including the ruler lord – it’s a game mechanic thing.) The Empire player (the city state of Pavona) has a mere 750 points of crossbow, wizards and helblaster, plus 350 points of standing force soldiers from the city the player is trying to get into (up to half being special or rare).

To better balance the forces I will allow the Empire player to have a large horde of peasants (rubbish stats) to represent the more able bodied of the large number of refugees he has with the wagon train. The wagons train represents the loot as well as the women and children, thus the peasant mob's willingness to help in the fight.

The Empire player has to make contact with the gate (or wall) with the wagons. The Ogre player has to get into contact with the wagons to take them. Each wagon carries an equal portion of the loot (‘supply points’ in technical game terms). Casualties amongst the combatants to be decided using normal campaign rules.

I currently see deployment as follows …


The ogres deploy in the top-right corner. The Pavonans deploy anywhere on the bottom half of the table, except their wagons have to be behind the half way line.  This represents the much more mobile soldiers deploying to protect the wagons as they trundle in.

It’s a 6 turn game. The idea is that without the defenders distracting, slowing or misdirecting the ogres they will definitely lose the loot - the ogres can get to them by turn 5 if movement alone was considered. The defenders are gonna lose casualties, sure, but that’s kind of inevitable. But if the Empire player can interfere with the ogres’ progress then he could save the loot.

The thing is I want this to be balanced as I was about to toss a coin if we didn’t do the battle. I want tactics and/or luck to carry the day! I can’t change the forces as this is a campaign and players have what they have. (Although I admit I’ve rustled up some extra forces for the Empire by turning non-combatants into a mob of pseudo-combatants, but that fits the scenario perfect and helps balance the game.)

So … any obvious problems? Any ideas on improving the balance?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 01:07:14 AM by Padre »
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline S.O.F

  • Members
  • Posts: 3117
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2015, 07:34:43 AM »
Seems good. ideal for the risk reward of the campaign as illustrated. O think the only way you will know is test the scenario which could be hood/bad or the near run thing you are looking for,

The only idea I would is to have the defensive supply terrain have the option to say sod it give up the loot for campaign points but say save the refugees for future campaign kudos (or negative it is against the character they have been playing) / Let them abandon the worthwhile supplies so save refugees for unknown later RP bonus (say "Run for It" double movement for wagons no loot points but saves women and children from being Ogre fodder).  Pr give the super underdog ty[e the reason to plau even after say bad fear checks screw him over early.

My only thought on this, love your stuff Padre (this post made with Knife Edge as background ;))
Soldier of Fortune
Crazy DOW player
Rabid Mets Fan

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2015, 12:47:58 PM »
Excellent advice, SOF. This was what I was hoping for. Your idea of potentially abandoning the loot in order to save the lives should indeed be incorporated.

I also had another thought as an optional tactic - the Pavonan player could opt to whip the draft horses thus forcing a 6" move, but each turn of doing so has an increasing chance of effectively killing them and thus halting the wagon.
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23713
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2015, 12:53:56 PM »
I'm not seeing an issue with it.  Just in your description provided here it seems like a touch and go, on the edge sort of scenario, probably no need to tinker with it much if at all.  The idea that it is calculated seems to provide a solid foundation for the rest of it to proceed, and see what happens.

Perhaps playtesting it solo could show something that might enhance the situation, yet beyond that it seems like an interesting situation.

I think S.O.F. has a good point about providing an option that might gain the underdog additional reason to play, and even if there is not a "give up the loot and run" option, maybe having the wagons not moving all as one unit, but each wagon as it's own unit could be part of this.  As an example, one wagon the furthest from the ogres, might make it to the gate just because there were other wagons slightly closer to the ogres, and the Ogres might only have enough units that make it to the wagon train to nab some of them.  There's probably no need to explain such a strategy, if the wagons are each seperate units, and let the players determine how to deal with that as they have the play go down.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23713
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2015, 12:59:24 PM »
I also had another thought as an optional tactic - the Pavonan player could opt to whip the draft horses thus forcing a 6" move, but each turn of doing so has an increasing chance of effectively killing them and thus halting the wagon.
Before finalizing this, I'd calculate the distance the wagon could travel if it succeeded in all it's rolls to get a horse to force march with a whip.  Yet perhaps that is obvious.  Also, if a horse dies or whatever, at that point having the people attempt to hoof it themselves and leave the loot behind could also be possible, yet perhaps the ogres might catch them, too.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Midaski

  • Sunny Sussex, England
  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 11893
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2015, 01:09:24 PM »
Looking at your diagram and trying to imagine being the Pavonian commander I would consider:

- how many wagons I had.

- can I deploy them as I see fit, in column or abreast in a sort of 'goldrush' formation. Is the 5.5 turns of movement based on one of these?

- as alternative to the goodie 'save the people' suggestion, do I sacrifice peasants as fodder holding up the ogres, so the wagons make it?

- it would seem that the ogres would need to be prevented from marching for 2 turns - though is that based on cavalry or infantry?

- do the ogres need to just be in base contact, or do they need to kill / defeat the wagon driver and shotgun guard or accompanying persons?

- are the town defenders on the wall not going to get involved? What about archers on the ramparts firing at the ogres?


This sort of thing is fantastic - you and rufus should get together and devise a campaign like this ............. that we can play at next years Eurobash.
Of course that means you and your crew would need to come ....................  :engel:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 09:37:21 PM »
I will incorporate Midaski and GP's ideas.

The wagons can be deployed however the player likes, as long as they are behind the line. If there are 4 wagons, say, then 2 by 2 as close to the table edge might be for the best. I shall ensure that (as is almost the case in the diagram) a wagon aiming for the middle of the wall gets there during turn 6 if uninterrupted, but because the wall is diagonal, then one aiming for the wall at the table edge would get there by mid turn 5. Touching the wall seems fair - trying to get through the gate is too fiddly game wise. (Although there might be a way.)

Might be 3 wagons. I love Midaski's idea that the people with the wagons could be used as fodder too (as well as the able bodied menfolk in the horde/mob), or alternatively saved by sacrificing the wagons. The two opposite possibilities (questions of morality) give the extra character depth (roleplaying) that our campaign tries for. It's the sort of thing that might come up during a game (I will act as a GM so can rule on all attempts) but it is better to be forewarned and forearmed.
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline commandant

  • Members
  • Posts: 7941
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 10:18:36 PM »
I would argue that the wagons should have to get through the gate, maybe even one at a time.   If a unit of orges needs to take a turn [ie combat round with no over run] to loot a wagon then maybe the general would have the option of leaving one wagon behind to be looted and delay the ogres while running off with the others.

Also there might be cannons on the walls which could help the general if he got in range.   This could help balance up the forces as well.

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2015, 11:43:27 PM »
I would like that better too, Commandant. I'll have to think of how it can be done - maintaining the balance re: movement. I want it to feel like it could go both ways. I suppose seeing it as a matter of how many wagons can be got in, like you said. And yes, if the ogres need a combat turn to count a wagon as looted then they could get in each other's way if the commander is not careful. That adds another balancing factor.

I am hoping this game will be one of maneouvre and - to put it poetically - denial, distraction, dashes and desperate stands.

Both you and Midaski talked about the garrison. The (small) city in question is Astiano, and was conquered very early in the campaign (using a somewhat tenuous excuse) by the Pavonan duke. Since then it has proved quite obedient, and the duke currently has Astianans as regular soldiers in his field army - he basically favoured one faction over another and so gained a loyal following. The player never specified what the new standing force consisted of - at first because it basically consisted of not much, but now enough time has passed for it to be about the standard strength for such a place. I will let the player decide what the force consists of. Whatever he picks can be made to fit the story - wall defenders (artillery, handgun, crossbow) works, but so does foot soldiers (there to police the populace) and so does horse soldiers (to police the region around).

NB: I can't change the points available to the players as a balancing strategy, as it is not that sort of campaign. The players are all very much in charge of their finances and forces - everything is accounted for in great detail. We might as well do so when a campaign runs as slowly and leisurely as this! The Pavonan player has a son leading a 1000 points of his army in the Reman arch-lector's holy war (in reality, the players' 9 year old boy!) as well as his own army at Pavona with him, this little runt of a force from Trantio, and his various 'standing forces' which are like militia and cannot leave their settlements. Bizarrely he has already paid for the crossbowmen twice! They were originally hired by Prince Girenzo of Trantio to defend his city, then bought to act as a permanent standing force by the duke of Pavona, and now bought again (also at full cost, using some of the looted from the city - his own possession!) to turn them into part of his field forces. I hope they serve him well considering what they cost!
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23713
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2015, 02:36:05 AM »
Sounds like the crossbowmen are well paid, so they must be well equipt, and well fed.

Perhaps give the 9 year old some sort of extra benefit(s) for such top notch crossbowmen.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 11:14:28 PM »
I have a final draft for the scenario. TBH, however, the players will do what they want/can. On paper the Pavonan player had a half and half chance of losing all the loot and the whole 750 points force guarding it. Now it's become a tabletop affair, I reckon he'll just want to end this game with as much alive as possible.

Scenario - Save the loot, oh, and the rest of us too!

Forces:
Ogres = 2600 points, incl’ Mournfang regiment, not incl’ the ruler lord. Moves of 6” and 8”.
Pavona = 750 Pavonan state troops, 350 points of Astiano standing force + mob of Trantians, guarding 3 wagons (each worth ½ SP loot) + little mob of women & children (worth ½ SP).

Objective:
Pavonan wagons must make contact with the gate. Ogres has to get into contact with the wagons to take them. Ogres cannot overrun wagons, but halt before the wagon to count as securing the loot. They can then move from there next turn.

Rules:
The Ogre deploys in the far corner from the gate section.  If there is not sufficient room then the remaining units arrive in the second or subsequent turns.
The Pavonan fighting forces deploy anywhere on their half of the table, but as either side’s units are placed, no-one can deploy within 12” of an enemy unit.
The wagons can be deployed however the player likes, behind the 20” (from the gate) line. This means that one, maybe two, could reach the gate in turn 5, and one, perhaps two in turn 6. As soon as they touch the gate they are removed (counted as having passed through to safety).
The women and children can march move, and also are removed when they touch the gate. Their move rate is 3” (old women, young women burdened with babes and possessions, children, old men). This mob also starts anywhere behind the 20” line.

All other ideas and tactics will be GM’d on the day.

Casualties:
Casualties are recovered as per the campaign ‘drawing armies’ rules. Either side is too focused on the loot to worry about chasing after the enemy, and both sides have lots of opportunities to avoid further fighting (either the defenders getting into the city by another gate or the attackers wandering off to look elsewhere for loot and grub).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 07:16:06 AM by Padre »
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline Padre

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2016, 06:09:08 PM »
The game was very enjoyable to GM. Hope the photos come out well. Will begin the process of editing the photos and writing the report asap. We altered and added to the scenario rules before and during play. The big difference was we said that any wagons not captured by the ogres would still count as held by the Pavonans at the end of the game (getting in through another gate or such) but that they had to remain on the table for the 6 turns of the game - they couldn't just slip off the edge. During those 6 turns the gate was their only route to safety. In the end what the players did turned out to be something I didn't really expect. Which I should have expected. You'll see in the report. I do reckon, however, that the Duke of Pavona is really gaining a reputation as a cruel tyrant!
Photobucket has now re-destroyed my pictures, so the first half of my collected works thread is no longer working again. To see my website version of the campaign thread, with fully functioning pictures, please go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline GamesPoet

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 23713
  • Happy Spring! : )
Re: Planning a scenario game for my Tilean Campaign. Ideas welcome.
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 11:22:35 PM »
Looking forward to seeing it! :icon_cool:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra