Topic: What updates does Empire need?

[Merrick]

Well, the Reiksguard Grand Master is Mr. Kurt Helborg, so no need to write rules there.

I've never even heard of half those Orders. 

[Marius]

Most of them are on the GW knightly orders page:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=cat1510574&categoryId=400015&aId=300007

[Obi]

[cough]http://www.warhammer-empire.com/library/knights/knights_index.php

[Lord Etharion]

Those rules are in my opinion way too powerful.

[Marius]

I know, I know, but they are fun

And don't expect that I wanted to give these rules out for free! They will be paid a due (and yet undecided) price for

[Irisado]

And don't expect that I wanted to give these rules out for free! They will be paid a due (and yet undecided) price for

You would end up having to place such a hefty points tag on some of those bonuses though, so I'm really not sure that the idea is workable.  As a big fan of Knights of the Blazing Sun, I certainly be comfortable with the idea of their having flaming attacks either.

It did make for an interesting read though.

[Folken]

Also, is there a reason within the context of the game for this? I mean our knights are mounted warriors, they are supposed to be well trained but not excessively adept and would introduce a whole range of confounding factors for the units you choose.  I mean all state troops are the equal(Though those from some provinces are more equal then others  ).

[Dihenydd]

That is the rule for pikes.

I was going to say the same thing.

*sigh*

I think the rule for pikes should be as is, except as well as +1S against those types of targets, it should also be -2AS modifer.
They can't be detachments (like Greatswords), nor can they have detachments (like Free Company). Should be probably 9 points, with cheap command options like the rest of our troops. Can be a Core choice, however no more units of Pikes than units of other state troops. Have option for heavy armour at +1 pt.

In so far as the skirmisher situation, I think that would tie back in to what kind of upgrades we allow for our infantry units. I wrote a well thought out one of these a while back, but here it is re-hashed:

State Trooper
Human stats, 4pts, Light Armour, Hand Weapon

Can only choose a maximum of 2 of the following 3 categories, must choose at least 1:
Can choose one of the following WEAPONS:
+1pt - Halberd
+1pt - Spear
+1pt - Extra hand weapon
+3pt - Pistol
+4pt - Handgun
+4pt - Crossbow

Can choose one of the following ARMOUR:
+1pt - Shield
+1pt - Heavy Armour
+2pt - Pavise

Can choose one of the following TRAINING:
+1pt - 1WS
+1pt - 1I
+2pt - 1Ld

I can't see any super combinations with that listed above.

Then to go further, you create a similar listing for the militia:

Militia
Human stats, 4pts, Hand Weapon, Skirmish

Must choose at least 1 of the following 2 categories:
Can choose one of the following WEAPONS:
+1pt - Extra hand weapon
+2pt - Great Weapon
+4pt - Pistol
+4pt - Bow
+5pt - Longbow

Can choose one of the following ABILITIES:
Free - Rank up
+2pt - Scout

I kind of like this, it is a bit more organized than the similar idea I had in another thread a couple of years ago.

Some minor tweaks I would add:

Armour
4pts FPA
Change shield so you can take shield/pavise AND armour choice.

Add pike to weapons (I know I know)

But, troopers costing 10 or more = Special choice

therefore FPA troopers would almost always be Specials.  Crossbows with Pavise = Specials

[ZeroTwentythree]

Here is an experimental compilation of knightly orders and their special rules:

	Normal	Inner Circle	Grand Master
Rieksgard	Stubborn	Stubborn, immune to psych

etc...

OK, how about something for Marienburg: Normal Inner Circle Grand Master Sons of Manann   May communicate with fish    Telepathy withfish        ...or maybe not. I don't think any of the regular knights should really get any sort of special rules. Something like that should be reserved for the Inner Circle, if at all. Maybe only for Inner Circle when led by the Grand Master. Or you could make it an ability that you purchase for the GM that takes effect when he's leading a unit from his order.

[Syn Ace]

[

OK, how about something for Marienburg: Normal Inner Circle Grand Master Sons of Manann   May communicate with fish    Telepathy withfish    Aquaman

Fixed 

[Lord Etharion]

I reckon the way to represent the differences between the various knightly orders is with magic banners. We already have a banner for the White wolves, albeit one that needs its rules adjusted. Other examples might be

Banner of Myrmidia: For blazing sun, this banner allows the unit to redeploy, in recognition of blazing sun's tactical prowess

Reiksguard banner: Extends the leadership of the knights to units within 6"

Morr: Immune to fear and terror, or immune to fear for all units within 6"

[vesrian]

I'm not a fan of different rules for different knightly orders because there's invariably going to be one or two that are just better than the others. And then people will take just those orders and there'll be less variety, not more.

If there was a way to make different rules for each such that they'd all be balanced and equally useful, then i'd be in favour of it. But i just can't see that happening.

[MagicJuggler]

I am in favor of a "Create your own chapter" system myself, where the powers are based off deity, and aspect. For instance, worshipping Myrmida as a Tactician would allow you to let other units nearby the knight unit use its leadership (similar to Peasant's Duty), etc.

[Midaski]

Take this to the new board now guys - I'll leave it unlocked so you can quote/copy stuff across if you want, but it is too general to move across complete.